[Discussion] Bitcoin Pizza Day on Bitcointalk 🍕

[joker_josue]

With my own assessment of voting dynamics (possible voting strategies), I was still o.k. with a contest participating member to vote for his own pizza while I was personally presuming that a member could vote for his own pizza and not vote for any other pizza.  Accordingly, at this time a person could give all his voting weight to his own pizza and sacrifice his other 4 possible votes by voting only for his own pizza since there is no need for any voter to have to execute all 5 of his votes.

True, but that just ensures that all 144 pizzas had one vote. It would not have that much impact on the final vote.
Of course, everything will depend on how many users will vote, but even so I don't think it would have a significant impact.

In any case, the organization will be able to more easily verify whether this has had an impact on the votes or not.

[babo]

verifying that you are easy is easy
but it's a long and laborious process and time consuming, very time consuming

If you then also add the fact that it is always a good idea to do a double check to be sure, you can understand how much time is wasted.
if we can, let's help not to complicate things, because then the one that has to work is icopress

[JayJuanGee]

I ended up voting and mostly describing my process in the voting thread. 

I will add in this thread that I did not end up voting for my own pizza, even though I purposefully made sure that my pizza was in the mix of 21 semi-finalist pizzas and then I somewhat ensured (with some prodding of my helper) that my pizza also ended up in the final 14 pizzas that were somewhat randomly selected (5 of them) yet my pizza did not end up getting selected within the final five selected due to some luck and some amount of quasi-randomness that we ended up employing.

[joker_josue]

I ended up voting and mostly describing my process in the voting thread. 

I will add in this thread that I did not end up voting for my own pizza, even though I purposefully made sure that my pizza was in the mix of 21 semi-finalist pizzas and then I somewhat ensured (with some prodding of my helper) that my pizza also ended up in the final 14 pizzas that were somewhat randomly selected (5 of them) yet my pizza did not end up getting selected within the final five selected due to some luck and some amount of quasi-randomness that we ended up employing.

Your helper/friend is a little rascal. 
He tried to bias your choices, so that you would choose one or two of the pizzas he liked the most.

The world is really a mess, we can no longer trust our "loyal helpers". 

[JayJuanGee]

I ended up voting and mostly describing my process in the voting thread. 

I will add in this thread that I did not end up voting for my own pizza, even though I purposefully made sure that my pizza was in the mix of 21 semi-finalist pizzas and then I somewhat ensured (with some prodding of my helper) that my pizza also ended up in the final 14 pizzas that were somewhat randomly selected (5 of them) yet my pizza did not end up getting selected within the final five selected due to some luck and some amount of quasi-randomness that we ended up employing.

Your helper/friend is a little rascal. 
He tried to bias your choices, so that you would choose one or two of the pizzas he liked the most.

The world is really a mess, we can no longer trust our "loyal helpers". 

From my view, the outcome of this whole pizza choosing process (and my own choice to participate in putting in a competitor) ended up being a bit erratic, and maybe a lot of guys get into similar situations if they attempt to describe aspects of their pizza participation process with some level of detail (whether the vote or the creating the pizza and even potentially more complicated when interacting with another person, like a team).

Even going through the whole process my opinion about which pizzas that I like best became stronger and stronger after reviewing the 144 pizzas and honing them down over and over and over and going through the stages that I listed in my voting post.  

I just went back through the pieces of paper with the numbers that were in the final 14 group before our drawing, and I now realize that one of the numbers (with two pieces of paper) was one that was not even in the original 21 that I proclaimed to be "eligible," even though that one addition did not end up getting drawn within the final 5.... but then I noticed that one of them with two pieces of paper did end up getting selected that was on my initial list of 21. I even noticed that some of the numbers that were eliminated from eligibility in the initial cut of 7 going down from 21 to 14 were some of my favorites that I was quite surprised the my helper would eliminate those particular ones (which upon further review ended up being 8 numbers eliminated since my helper had ended up putting an additional number in there).

I had considered whether I should have had mentioned in my post my initial 21 choices (and the additional 22nd choice that my helper put in there) or might my mentioning them be a form of campaigning that might influence the vote...and like I mentioned, there was even a bit of randomness in regards to eliminating down to 21/22 pizzas when I probably could have had 30-ish pizzas in that semi-final list. It is like some of the pizzas are there and they are good for their own reasons, and there were a couple of pizzas that my friend said should be in the list, but then I said that I did not see any meat in there, but then there were other pizzas that ended up in the final, and I could not see meat in there, but then at the same time, the artistic expression or the color combination (somewhat subjective) might have had contributed towards my desire for the pizza to be in, but then my helper did not see the hierarchy of the seemingly better pizzas in that way.

I have gotten the sense of a kind of pattern with my "helper" that seems to show my perception of desires to take short-cuts (which might be a personality matter).  I recall one instance in which we were parking our car, and there was a person requesting a tip to guard (watch our car), and I did not have any problem giving the tip, but the tip would come at the time when we returned to the car rather than when we arrived, but the persons insistence on receiving a tip had motivated my helper to give the tip, which I had proclaimed to have had been a bad practice.  

I will still assert that I don't really consider myself as a perfectionist, but then relatively speaking each of us might have tendencies when we are the leader (or the boss) that might be seeming to impose our values and seeming to be a perfectionist to the helper since the helper may well have differing ideas.. and even when I am imposing my system onto "what we are going to do," some of the chosen process seems random, petty and not even that important to go through the specific seemingly random and not even an important process.

At the same time, it seems to me that frequently in relationships people (helpers) attempt to push limits of what they are able to get away with and also want to exert their own autonomy and expressions of their individualism, so many times each of us have to decide the extent to which we are willing to tolerate such expressions of individualism.. .in terms of are the benefits of such relationship at least equal to or better than the costs.  Many of us may well consider that when we get helpers, the helpers tend to end up causing us additional work, so then we frequently might question why do we have the helper in the first place when we are having to work harder because of the helper.

Another thing (as you referred to) is that probably many times we are seeking a sense of loyalty from our "helper(s)" - yet at the same time, we may well not want to overly squelch individualism that is present in the helper(s)  - so then frequently we may well be trying to figure out how much balance do we seek in our efforts to achieve our own goals in light of also wanting to get some loyalty from our helpers.

[icopress]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

[Lillominato89]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

I'm not good at math, but the chances are really slim or so small as to be practically impossible, the only probability is that a coordinated vote was held

[PX-Z]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

If those 5 identical pizzas came from the same local board, then I guess it’s more like a coordinated effort, a kind of vote to support each other's local entries.

[xLays]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

I'm not good at math, but the chances are really slim or so small as to be practically impossible, the only probability is that a coordinated vote was held

Yeah, in short there's definitely something behind why this happened. We can't really prove what they're doing unless someone comes forward as a whistleblower. lol

For the sake of winning this contest, they might be willing to do anything just to come out on top. Hopefully, these guys aren't cheating because if they are, you know what could happen to their accounts and entries. Aside from being disqualified from the contest, their accounts could also end up getting tagged.

[LoyceV]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

Math: it depends. Are those 5 users the only ones from that local section, or is it a sub-section of all local users? Given enough people, similarities become more likely. Also: not all pizzas have the same chance of being picked: some are objectively better than others, so people are more likely to select certain pizzas. So I can't give you an exact answer based on math alone.
Gut feeling: this doesn't sound like a coincidence, it sounds like copy/pasting.

[Lillominato89]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

I'm not good at math, but the chances are really slim or so small as to be practically impossible, the only probability is that a coordinated vote was held

Yeah, in short there's definitely something behind why this happened. We can't really prove what they're doing unless someone comes forward as a whistleblower. lol

For the sake of winning this contest, they might be willing to do anything just to come out on top. Hopefully, these guys aren't cheating because if they are, you know what could happen to their accounts and entries. Aside from being disqualified from the contest, their accounts could also end up getting tagged.

The prize is quite substantial and unfortunately there are people who would do anything to win, even dishonest things, but it was to be expected. I'm sure icopress knows how to handle the situation, if they have already noticed something strange it means they already have in mind how to proceed.

[fillippone]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

It's incredible the quantity of information you can draw from this set, simply copying and pasting all the votes in an AI, you can have a lot of information, without the ability to code.

For the stongest in math: what is the possibility, with 144 pizzas and 132 voters, that 47 of those voted the same 5 pizzas?
Of course, not every pizza has the same right to be chosen, and the top pizzas are there for a reason. But more than 1 voters in 3 got the exact same 5 pizza elected? (one of them is not even a pizza, actually).

I already voted, I don't think I am going to edit the vote, but I have a few suggestions for next year's contest, if you want to discuss those after the contest ends.

Just wondering if this message of yours, before the official voting ends, is a (not so) subtle suggestion to change the votes?

Edit: a few words got stuck on the keyboard and made the post less clear.

[joker_josue]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

You don't have to be very good at math to realize that the probability is low.

Now, it is a very strange combination of factors, which could give the impression that votes were combined or copied between everyone. Prove this? Difficult if it was done in MP, if it was done in some topic in the local section, it will be "easier". But, they may not have even been combined, and it was just a joint action for the sake of friendship/pride or just to 100% support local pizzas. So they simply followed the vote of the first local member.

Anyway, something strange... and regrettable if it really was a combination.

[icopress]

[...]Just wondering if this message of yours, before the official voting ends, is a (not so) subtle suggestion to change the votes?

Given the slim chances of randomness, I will exclude votes from those who look like copy/paste.

Even if one of them edits their post, the history will remain in the archive, so these votes will still be excluded.

[babo]

[...]Just wondering if this message of yours, before the official voting ends, is a (not so) subtle suggestion to change the votes?

Given the slim chances of randomness, I will exclude votes from those who look like copy/paste.

Even if one of them edits their post, the history will remain in the archive, so these votes will still be excluded.

another idea could be, for next year, to motivate the choice in some way
so as to write a little sentence that cannot be the same for everyone, in this way I think it is possible to discourage copy-pasting
in short we have the opportunity to put in place some solutions to contain the problem, in my opinion

[fillippone]

[...]Just wondering if this message of yours, before the official voting ends, is a (not so) subtle suggestion to change the votes?

Given the slim chances of randomness, I will exclude votes from those who look like copy/paste.

Even if one of them edits their post, the history will remain in the archive, so these votes will still be excluded.

another idea could be, for next year, to motivate the choice in some way
so as to write a little sentence that cannot be the same for everyone, in this way I think it is possible to discourage copy-pasting
in short we have the opportunity to put in place some solutions to contain the problem, in my opinion

Let’s discuss all those ideas after the closing of the contest, babo.
Rules for this editions were clear.
There is space for improvements? Sure, as in every aspect of life, but I think for respect of everyone, contestants, organiser and sponsors of this competition included, it is better to discuss change of rules after winners are announced!
Just my two cents.

[LoyceV]

another idea could be, for next year, to motivate the choice in some way
so as to write a little sentence that cannot be the same for everyone, in this way I think it is possible to discourage copy-pasting

That would make it more work for everyone. I'm not sure if I'm willing to motivate why I selected a certain pizza based on an image.

[Danydee]

I'm not sure if I'm willing to motivate why I selected a certain pizza based on an image.

Yes, make a judgment on a single image may turn out to be very hard.. many factors, camera efficiency, POV ....

I experienced this myself, when I realized only when the voting topic was made (and obviously too late) that my pizza was not well contrasting with the background in the picture..

So the pictures of making the pizza could help very much to figure out how it is made, it's quality.. quality of the base/crust ..

* So why not make participants upload a full gallery to image hosting services.. and put the link of the gallery with the final picture on the voting topic !??
just set a couple of rules of posting and that's all !

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

You're really monitoring every vote !  Hats off mate, bravo!

[cryptofrka]

If we're recommending stuff, please just make the rule that you can't vote for your own entry (pizza, pumpkin, whatever) official going forward.

My blood boils a bit after every 'can I vote for myself' question. No, you can't, not sure what sort of a contestant even asks something like this.

[Odohu]

Friends, who is good at math?

What is the probability that, given 144 pizza options, 5 users from one local section vote for 5 identical pizzas, placing votes in the same order?

The probability is high and I will explain how it can happen. The first vote can come from a particular member of a local board who have earned the respect and trust of other local board members, others coming to vote, sees his/her choice and decide to vote in same direction. It happens even  in circular politics  in which case people simply vote for a candidate because a certain individual supports the candidate. I don't think this breaks any rule hence, taking any action because some people voted the same numbers and in the same order may not seem fair to the competition entirely. Like some people already suggested, these are areas of improvement that can be discussed after a winner have been announced based on the rules set for this year's contest.

By the way, your observation is right as I have noticed that pattern across many local boards and it simply means there could be coordinated effort to deliver pizza from some local boards.