Little things that bug you/me about the forum

[Alone055]

I'll only provide one counter-argument: what if a topic starter goes crazy and wipes everything? Some users could even drop back in Rank if that wiped their Merit.

Fair enough. Then I guess we'll have to leave things as they are, because I don't think disabling merits for a whole thread is reasonable.

Here's another forum suggestion: Some users turned the title of their posts (or more likely: topics) into something that can't be clicked. You'll have to look at the page source to find the link now. Even if it's empty, clicking the link would at least show the topicID, which allows to look it up on external archives.
Would it be possible to make something other than the title clickable? Say the post number, the date, or even the "/"?

The user you have used as an example, I'm actually able to click on the title of his posts/topics from his "Latest posts of:" page. Here:



Is that what you are referring to?

[LoyceV]

The user you have used as an example, I'm actually able to click on the title of his posts/topics from his "Latest posts of:" page.

It seems to depend on the browser: it doesn't show in Firefox, but it works in Chromium.

[Alone055]

It seems to depend on the browser: it doesn't show in Firefox, but it works in Chromium.

Probably. In that case, your suggestion makes sense because making the date clickable on that page will be helpful for users using browsers other than Chrome/Chromium in clicking or accessing the links of a user's posts/threads from their "Latest posts of:" page.

[Etranger]

I’ve been thinking about this aspect. Many of us are very active in local boards, and nowadays signature campaigns are more inclined to count posts in locals. Each manager has certain quotas, but in any case, some number of local posts are counted. That’s why it’s important to track them. In general, it’s also convenient to see where the posts are—in local sections or in the main English sections. If this were somehow visually displayed in the post history, I believe it would be a very useful feature for forum members and would make navigation much easier.

[LoyceV]

In general, it’s also convenient to see where the posts are—in local sections or in the main English sections. If this were somehow visually displayed in the post history, I believe it would be a very useful feature for forum members and would make navigation much easier.

Ninjastic has graphs showing the distribution of your posts on different boards. Is that what you're looking for? I don't think the forum is going to show things that third party sites can handle.

[coinlary]

In general, it’s also convenient to see where the posts are—in local sections or in the main English sections. If this were somehow visually displayed in the post history, I believe it would be a very useful feature for forum members and would make navigation much easier.

It is still possible to count accurately from the post history, any post that has been moved or deleted could be easily spotted as well and you can just count backwards to the timestamp. Every post is even label with their respective board. Also, ninjastic.spcae & the beta version are available for that too

[Pablo-wood]

It is still possible to count accurately from the post history, any post that has been moved or deleted could be easily spotted as well and you can just count backwards to the timestamp. Every post is even label with their respective board. Also, ninjastic.spcae & the beta version are available for that too

Counting backwards to the timestamps of the deleted post can very stressful and frustrating, I am already imagining how tedious this kind of self inflicted task can be especially if the post happens to be a very old post or such that it's timestamp and index are far from the current post. ninjastic.space as suggested makes it more easier and saves time

[PowerGlove]

Would it be possible to make something other than the title clickable? Say the post number, the date, or even the "/"?

Nice one. I'll likely work on that (at some point).

What's going on there is that Symmetrick edited the subject into the Unicode character U+3164 ("Hangul Filler"). I quickly parsed the UCD XML file (for Unicode 16.0.0) and found ~406 other characters that will cause that same kind of (browser dependent) nothing-to-click problem. This is more of a note to myself than to you, but, to prevent that kind of "blank" subject from being possible in the first place, I suppose I should write a stripInvisible function (to filter out those ~407 "default ignorable" characters) along with a beefed-up trim function (to gobble up all ~25 kinds of whitespace from both ends of a string). That way, blank-but-not-empty subjects won't sneak past the minimum-length check. Probably, almost all of the ~65 Unicode control characters have no business being in subjects, either. I'm not sure about the ~170 formatting characters (though, I think ~138 of those would be caught anyway by the hypothetical stripInvisible function).

Hmm... I just tired myself out thinking about how I'm going to shoehorn all of that (or its whitelist inverse) into SMF's strange and inconsistent text-handling story; Imma rest my eyes for just a minute, m'kay?

* PowerGlove dozes off...

About the interesting discussion on the previous page: I have thoughts, but, as usual, they're complicated, and it will take time for me to try to distill them into something readable...

I guess, one thought that I'm ready to share now is that I don't see how someone could be for self-moderated threads but against merit-restricted threads. As in, if you resent the idea that the thread-starter should have the power to limit merit-sending, then you should really resent the idea that the thread-starter should have the power to limit discussion.

I recently found this post by OgNasty (who I think is just about the biggest plonker that I've ever bumped into, but, even grade-A dingleberries occasionally have good thoughts):

Perhaps another idea is for some sort of list of deleted posts at the bottom of self moderated threads so that if people want to read what has been deleted, they have the option.

If it were up to me, I think I'd get rid of the self-moderation feature completely, but, failing that, I think something like what OgNasty is suggesting makes a lot of sense...

I think what I'd do is adjust the self-moderation notice from currently looking like this (and only being at the top of the page):



To looking like this (and being at the bottom of the page, too):



(The important change is that the "44 posts" part is now a link which will take you to a view of the deleted posts.)

There's also this idea from suchmoon:

It's allowed for topic-starters to delete all replies to their self-mod topics. Restoring the posts would only be considered in special cases such as if their account had been hacked.

Also, if a topic has no more replies, moderators will typically delete the topic on request, since then there isn't the issue of deleting other people's replies. That's why the empty topics were not restored.

It's just that he trashed a bunch of threads out of spite or mental breakdown or whatever that was, not because of anything related to the threads themselves. That's why I think it's abuse of a forum feature/privilege.

Perhaps there should be a time limit on self mod. I can't think of a good reason to delete posts months later.

I agree with that... I too can't think of a good reason to allow a self-moderating topic-starter to delete another user's posts a long time after they were written. (Unless, maybe, the topic-starter has returned after a long break from the forum, or something. I guess, accounting for that would be simple enough, but, it's the kind of band-aid-on-band-aid logic that quickly leads me back around to thinking that the whole self-moderation feature should never have been implemented in the first place. In fact, if it didn't currently exist, and it only now came up as a new suggestion in this thread, I'm pretty sure that almost everyone would hiss at the idea.)

[joker_josue]

I agree with that... I too can't think of a good reason to allow a self-moderating topic-starter to delete another user's posts a long time after they were written. (Unless, maybe, the topic-starter has returned after a long break from the forum, or something. I guess, accounting for that would be simple enough, but, it's the kind of band-aid-on-band-aid logic that quickly leads me back around to thinking that the whole self-moderation feature should never have been implemented in the first place. In fact, if it didn't currently exist, and it only now came up as a new suggestion in this thread, I'm pretty sure that almost everyone would hiss at the idea.)

Even though I was the one who brought the topic back to the table (I had some kind of mental breakdown - sorry), I don't think there's any point in either self-moderation or self-rejection of merits.

The ability to delete posts should be reserved for moderators only. Furthermore, a self-moderated topic ends up being biased and can become authoritarian. I think I've only made 1 self-moderated topic to date, and I regretted it soon after (I hated seeing the message at the top), but I've never exercised that authority.

As LoyceV commented, we've all been hurt by some crazy self-moderated poster. I personally avoid posting in these threads as well. If this option disappears, it would be fantastic, because until now I have never seen any real use for it.

I don't even like the idea of ​​merging posts - in certain contexts, even less the idea of ​​deleting posts. In fact, I see entire topics with titles and posts, with only 1 character and nobody deletes them (I don't understand why), and then we have people deleting legitimate posts.

[LoyceV]

I guess, one thought that I'm ready to share now is that I don't see how someone could be for self-moderated threads but against merit-restricted threads. As in, if you resent the idea that the thread-starter should have the power to limit merit-sending, then you should really resent the idea that the thread-starter should have the power to limit discussion.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Even Mods don't have the power to restrict Merit, but they can smite the post or even the member.

If it were up to me, I think I'd get rid of the self-moderation feature completely,

When used appropriately, self-moderation is a great way to discourage spammers from even posting in your topic. Or to keep the topic short for frequent scraping.

(The important change is that the "44 posts" part is now a link which will take you to a view of the deleted posts.)

Allow me to add complications
Is the creator of the post still allowed to delete the post after this? Or edit it? It wouldn't be fair not to, but this opens up the possibility for a spammer to turn a shitpost into a good post just to make OP look bad.

I see entire topics with titles and posts, with only 1 character and nobody deletes them (I don't understand why)

In Ratimov's case, those topics are not deleted because there are still posts from other users in those topics.

[Alone055]

When used appropriately, self-moderation is a great way to discourage spammers from even posting in your topic.

I agree. I believe that the self-moderation feature can be useful at times. Still, it should have some additions. The one you, @PowerGlove, mentioned about reserving the deleted posts for others to view can be a good addition, as it will make things more transparent. It will make it clear that the OP isn't removing posts for personal agendas or anything, but the posts are being removed because they deserve to get removed.

Is the creator of the post still allowed to delete the post after this? Or edit it? It wouldn't be fair not to, but this opens up the possibility for a spammer to turn a shitpost into a good post just to make OP look bad.

I think it would be totally fair not to allow the creator of the post to make edits or have the ability to delete their posts once the OP of the self-moderated thread has removed them. Just like how when a post is deleted by a moderator we completely lose access to it, it should be the same in this case, because once the OP deletes your post, it goes into the reserve and can only be seen, but nothing can be done to it.

[Perfectbaby]

I think it would be totally fair not to allow the creator of the post to make edits or have the ability to delete their posts once the OP of the self-moderated thread has removed them. Just like how when a post is deleted by a moderator we completely lose access to it, it should be the same in this case, because once the OP deletes your post, it goes into the reserve and can only be seen, but nothing can be done to it.

What if the OP has some adjustments to make on the thread he created and isn't allowed to make edits or some adjustments would Op has to re-post in that same thread or what? Usually, the op should be permitted to make adjustments on their own thread but as we know whatever that is posted on any thread/topic is automatically archived so, even if they edit it for their personal interest or gains it can be still be revisited to know the original content op posted or even the deleted from the thread.

Usually why I do not so much like a self-moderated thread because is just for personal gain where the original creator has the ability to permit any post that would be posted there or not, but for topics that are related with finance or transactions I wouldn't encourage that to be self-moderated except for a special cases where the creator is either a staff or reputable member on the forum with much trust rating than a newbie or Jr member.

[Cricktor]

I'm mostly neutral to self-moderated threads because I hope and expect that the OP does the moderation wisely and benevolently (listing as much as possible clear self-moderation rules is very welcome and necessary in my opinion). I see it as a tool to keep a thread clean if the topic has potential for off-topic blabber, spam or cluttering with low-value posts. If it scares off signature campaign spammers who rush to fulfil their quota: mission accomplished.

In my opinion a deleted post should not be available for the poster to be edited past self-moderated deletion. The state that led to deletion should be preserved if we get some view functionality to peek at such deleted posts as suggested here.

[joker_josue]

On the other hand, I think that perhaps there is no need for the forum to have a way to save these deleted messages, as there are already platforms that perpetually save all posts created on the forum.

Like LoyceV's archives, or ninjastic.space which allows you to access all posts made.

[Alone055]

What if the OP has some adjustments to make on the thread he created and isn't allowed to make edits or some adjustments would Op has to re-post in that same thread or what? Usually, the op should be permitted to make adjustments on their own thread but as we know whatever that is posted on any thread/topic is automatically archived so, even if they edit it for their personal interest or gains it can be still be revisited to know the original content op posted or even the deleted from the thread.

Bro, "creator of the post" is different than "OP". A creator of a post is someone who is creating/making a post, for example, if I make this post, I'm the creator of this post. "OP" is the creator of the thread, and I was talking about posters in the thread, not the OP. I know that the OP should be allowed to make adjustments or whatever, what I was saying that a poster, whose post gets deleted by the OP of a self-moderated thread, shouldn't be allowed to make changes in the post that has been deleted once it goes into the archive, the feature we are discussing here. And, even the OP shouldn't be allowed to do anything with the posts that are added into the archived posts, which are basically posts that were deleted by the OP in his thread.

Usually why I do not so much like a self-moderated thread because is just for personal gain where the original creator has the ability to permit any post that would be posted there or not

That is the very reason why we are discussing about a feature that would reserve the removed/deleted posts for reference for others to see, for better transparency, only to make it clear that the OP isn't misusing the power of self-moderation and is only thrashing posts that deserve to be trashed and not doing it for personal reasons, etc.

On the other hand, I think that perhaps there is no need for the forum to have a way to save these deleted messages, as there are already platforms that perpetually save all posts created on the forum.

Like LoyceV's archives, or ninjastic.space which allows you to access all posts made.

Yes, but we need the message/post ID to be able to see the archived version of it. How do you find that for a deleted post in a self-moderated thread?

[LoyceV]

Yes, but we need the message/post ID to be able to see the archived version of it. How do you find that for a deleted post in a self-moderated thread?

You can search by topicID, but it's not easy to find the deleted posts in long topics, and my highlight deleted and edited posts is broken for years. Or maybe it just works, I don't really remember. It's currently scraping, so let's see. If I remember correctly, it fails on old posts but may work on topics from the past years. It's broken.

[Alone055]

You can search by topicID, but it's not easy to find the deleted posts in long topics, and my highlight deleted and edited posts is broken for years. Or maybe it just works, I don't really remember. It's currently scraping, so let's see. If I remember correctly, it fails on old posts but may work on topics from the past years. It's broken.

Yeah, but it's too much of a hassle, as you mentioned. I tried it on your website with SwC Poker's thread, which is self-moderated, and even though it's showing all the posts including the deleted ones, it's difficult to find a single post among them, and even if the highlighter for deleted posts work, it's still not easy since you don't even know the post number to make a quick search.

That's why, if the feature @PowerGlove mentioned is added, which would reserve the deleted posts that can be viewed from the notification above a self-moderated thread, it will save a lot of time for people to see deleted posts from a self-moderated thread.

[TryNinja]

Yes, but we need the message/post ID to be able to see the archived version of it. How do you find that for a deleted post in a self-moderated thread?

I have a system to rescrape posts for edits and deletion that runs once after 5 minutes, 30 minutes, and 1 week. But if my bot checks the post after 30 minutes, sees it is still there, and the post is only deleted the next day, it will only check again and detect as deleted after 1 week.

I have plans to put up an on-demand rescraper available to everyone, but first need to think of a solution for spam (i.e someone tries to rescrape a post multiple times, changing a single letter and cluttering my database).

In the meanwhile I added the option to filter deleted posts on the beta version of my archive (both search page and topic page):

Search page
- Added "Only search deleted post" filter

Topic page
- Added "Only search deleted post" filter
- Added "search content"
- Added extra filters already on the search page (with/without urls, title, search only original post, fuzzy search)

For example: https://beta.ninjastic.space/topic/5068812?only_deleted=true&sort_by=date_asc

Older posts aren't rescraped, so this is why there are only 13 results vs 308... but it's a start.

[joker_josue]

You know something that sometimes bothers me?
It's when there are posts on the next page, and we're so focused on what we're reading that we don't even notice that we're not on the last page of the topic. Then, we clicked on reply right away, and we only noticed that there were more posts to read when we saw that the last posts were not the same as the ones we just read.

Has it never happened to you?

Could a clearer note be added to the page about the existence of more posts on subsequent pages?

[Alone055]

In the meanwhile I added the option to filter deleted posts on the beta version of my archive (both search page and topic page):

Search page
- Added "Only search deleted post" filter

Topic page
- Added "Only search deleted post" filter
- Added "search content"
- Added extra filters already on the search page (with/without urls, title, search only original post, fuzzy search)

For example: https://beta.ninjastic.space/topic/5068812?only_deleted=true&sort_by=date_asc

Older posts aren't rescraped, so this is why there are only 13 results vs 308... but it's a start.

Great! If your website can archive the deleted posts from the self-moderated threads as well, then I guess we don't need to add an extra feature within the forum only for that.

But if my bot checks the post after 30 minutes, sees it is still there, and the post is only deleted the next day, it will only check again and detect as deleted after 1 week.

That shouldn't be a problem as long as the posts are scraped and archived even before the deletion. However, what if a post is deleted within 5 minutes after it has been posted in a self-moderated thread?