Rollbit banned my account with $3.2k in the balance

[leftlanepapi]

A few days ago I deposited some money to play on rollbit. To deposit they required me to verify my ID so I did and it got approved, I managed to make $4100 profit and withdrew my deposit ($1100) right after that they asked me to do another level of kyc (level 3 where you have to add a selfie) so I did that and it got approved again.

Right after that they wanted me to do another level of kyc (level 4, address verification) for context I am a dual resident of the netherlands and norway and during the time of this I was in norway (still am right now) however I used the address verification of my residence in the netherlands as I thought the kyc was just for anti fraud purposes and still had that bill on my phone from another verfication I did. They locked my account with the $3200 inside for geo restrictions and are not letting me re-verify my residence in Norway.

My friend is down over $15k on this site and has never been asked to do a KYC check, to me it seems like they are using geo restriction as an excuse to make players forfeit big wins while they use the argument "You have already withdrew your deposit back" but they would never return the deposit if a player is in a loss. Casinos like stake would never hold your winnings like that and would instead put you in a "withdraw only mode". I personally think if they allow a player to gamble (taking the risk to lose it all) he should always be allowed to withdraw his winnings / remaining balance as long no fraud is involved.

Conversation with support: https://imgur.com/a/st3nepU

[PX-Z]

Please follow this format when posting complaints or scam accusations against someone or some service.

Also include more proofs like screenshots you can use talkimg.com for uploading them. Only remove or blur those personal and confidential info.

[Wiwo]

By posting accusations without any proff at first attempt will destroy the credibility of your accusations, and before ou write anything against a company as big as Rollbit you need to do alot of research, and following the acceptable format as PX-Z have suggested you follow the acceptable template for creating an accusations thread.

So you have the chance to quickly include all the necessary evidence to your accusations before it start gaining attentions otherwise this can be seen as a mere speculations and attack on brand.

[leftlanepapi]

By posting accusations without any proff at first attempt will destroy the credibility of your accusations, and before ou write anything against a company as big as Rollbit you need to do alot of research, and following the acceptable format as PX-Z have suggested you follow the acceptable template for creating an accusations thread.

So you have the chance to quickly include all the necessary evidence to your accusations before it start gaining attentions otherwise this can be seen as a mere speculations and attack on brand.

added my convo with support to thread

[Potato Chips]

But if you're just on a vacation in norway, I would have to agree with the support, this does not equal to residency. A legal residency would have a separate process, have you done this? it's either for permanent residency, for work, etc.

Setting foot in another country does not diminish your citizenship/present residency either. Let's say you're a citizen in Netherlands, you are still bound by their laws even if you go in Norway hence rollbit would have to block your access otherwise, there may be some repercussions to rollbit as some countries could go mad mad if you let their folks in without the necessary permits.

I think imgur compressed the video, the texts are so blurry on my end, anyone else? lol

[leftlanepapi]

But if you're just on a vacation in norway, I would have to agree with the support, this does not equal to residency. A legal residency would have a separate process, have you done this? it's either for permanent residency, for work, etc.

Setting foot in another country does not diminish your citizenship/present residency either. Let's say you're a citizen in Netherlands, you are still bound by their laws even if you go in Norway hence rollbit would have to block your access otherwise, there may be some repercussions to rollbit as some countries could go mad mad if you let their folks in without the necessary permits.

I think imgur compressed the video, the texts are so blurry on my end, anyone else? lol

Hi thanks for the reply,

Vacation was wrong wording here im not the best at English as you can probably tell, i have been staying in Norway since last year December (9 months now) i had to apply for a residence permit and it got approved.

Reasoning for me staying here is personal stuff but im living with my dad while splitting all the bills, i work remotely for a dutch company while being a tax resident in Norway.

I am ready to provide all the necessary documents to rollbit of my residence here but they are refusing to let me do so.

Also i updated the imgur link, should be a bit more readable now

[AHOYBRAUSE]

But if you're just on a vacation in norway, I would have to agree with the support, this does not equal to residency. A legal residency would have a separate process, have you done this? it's either for permanent residency, for work, etc.

Setting foot in another country does not diminish your citizenship/present residency either. Let's say you're a citizen in Netherlands, you are still bound by their laws even if you go in Norway hence rollbit would have to block your access otherwise, there may be some repercussions to rollbit as some countries could go mad mad if you let their folks in without the necessary permits.

I think imgur compressed the video, the texts are so blurry on my end, anyone else? lol

Hi thanks for the reply,

Vacation was wrong wording here im not the best at English as you can probably tell, i have been staying in Norway since last year December (9 months now) i had to apply for a residence permit and it got approved.

Reasoning for me staying here is personal stuff but im living with my dad while splitting all the bills, i work remotely for a dutch company while being a tax resident in Norway.

I am ready to provide all the necessary documents to rollbit of my residence here but they are refusing to let me do so.

Also i updated the imgur link, should be a bit more readable now

Well, not a fan of rollbit here but in this case they are actually right.
You should have thought twice before submitting your address proof of your residence in the Netherlands, that's the one big mistake you made and can't take back.

One thing I find a bit odd though. You say you are in Norway for 9 months now. Usually to pass address verification KYC you must send documents (bills, bank statements, etc) not older than 1-3 months old . See what I mean?

[leftlanepapi]

But if you're just on a vacation in norway, I would have to agree with the support, this does not equal to residency. A legal residency would have a separate process, have you done this? it's either for permanent residency, for work, etc.

Setting foot in another country does not diminish your citizenship/present residency either. Let's say you're a citizen in Netherlands, you are still bound by their laws even if you go in Norway hence rollbit would have to block your access otherwise, there may be some repercussions to rollbit as some countries could go mad mad if you let their folks in without the necessary permits.

I think imgur compressed the video, the texts are so blurry on my end, anyone else? lol

Hi thanks for the reply,

Vacation was wrong wording here im not the best at English as you can probably tell, i have been staying in Norway since last year December (9 months now) i had to apply for a residence permit and it got approved.

Reasoning for me staying here is personal stuff but im living with my dad while splitting all the bills, i work remotely for a dutch company while being a tax resident in Norway.

I am ready to provide all the necessary documents to rollbit of my residence here but they are refusing to let me do so.

Also i updated the imgur link, should be a bit more readable now

Well, not a fan of rollbit here but in this case they are actually right.
You should have thought twice before submitting your address proof of your residence in the Netherlands, that's the one big mistake you made and can't take back.

One thing I find a bit odd though. You say you are in Norway for 9 months now. Usually to pass address verification KYC you must send documents (bills, bank statements, etc) not older than 1-3 months old . See what I mean?

I used my phone bill which is the easiest one to get for me (within the app of my phone provider) the billing address is in the Netherlands where the other part of my family still lives in (pricing benefits when you have phone subscriptions on the same household).

While it was obviously not a smart decision to use that as verification i should still be given a chance to submit documents for my residence in Norway, none of the info i submitted to rollbit was false in any way and i have been transparent with them about my situation the entire time.

[holydarkness]

OP, can you please make it easier to me by screenshotting those conversation frame by frame, where the last sentence on the captured screen matched the first line of the next screenshot so I can easily understand and read them chronologically? After understanding your case better, I'll try to weight the necessity to PM a plead to Razer and see if he can out-turn their final decision and allow you to resubmit KYC.

[leftlanepapi]

OP, can you please make it easier to me by screenshotting those conversation frame by frame, where the last sentence on the captured screen matched the first line of the next screenshot so I can easily understand and read them chronologically? After understanding your case better, I'll try to weight the necessity to PM a plead to Razer and see if he can out-turn their final decision and allow you to resubmit KYC.

I managed to download the transcript

https://privatebin.net/?a5665a2d904ebea1#2tdgjuMoHDA7AiAsayxovJgLjk87rkTdB1NBCEM3eVei

[Rating Place]

What I'm not understanding is why all of a sudden "resident" has changed meanings for Rollbit. In the other case, the player was a resident of Lux but had his money stolen because the casino said "resident" means where the plays were made from, not legal residency. The casino claimed, even though they never proved, that the plays were from the UK, thus residence is UK. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499584.0

I said “resident” meant legal resident and holydarkness said “resident” meant where you made the plays from.

Quote from holydarkness on the Rollbit Lux case

Now, moving to your post, that quotes above prove that you are wrong, not just for the sake of argument, it is the fact. It's clearly written, what three of them [and other casinos, though they might not as detailed as above] consider as a resident is someone who located in or within the country. It doesn't need those earlier requirement of residency you insisted and persistently lectured me. The second someone set foot on that soil, they're considered to be located in or within that territory. I'm not here to rub it in, though, so I take that topic to rest, glad it's cleared to you.

Now in this case, "resident" is used in the legal sense. The plays came from Norway so should be good according to the previous case. Rollbit can't change the meaning of "resident" to whatever fits them best.

Edit- Rollbit may have added to their terms from the last case. It now says you can’t be a resident, meaning legal resident. Later on it also says that you can’t play from restricted countries. It looks like Rollbit now has both covered so Rollbit may be right.


FWIW and to clear things up going forward, this is how books generally use terms and phrases-
1. “Resident” means legal resident.
2. If they want to just cover location, then they say “located in” or “restricted countries” or “while residing in”.
3. When they want to cover both resident and location, they may say “resident of or while located in”

It’s not universal so people do need to look at ToS on jurisdiction.

[holydarkness]

But if you're just on a vacation in norway, I would have to agree with the support, this does not equal to residency. A legal residency would have a separate process, have you done this? it's either for permanent residency, for work, etc.

Setting foot in another country does not diminish your citizenship/present residency either. Let's say you're a citizen in Netherlands, you are still bound by their laws even if you go in Norway hence rollbit would have to block your access otherwise, there may be some repercussions to rollbit as some countries could go mad mad if you let their folks in without the necessary permits.

I think imgur compressed the video, the texts are so blurry on my end, anyone else? lol

Far as I know and can gather from several casinos representatives' explanation, residency refers to the location you accessed them from; in other words, the soil of which your feet sets themselves on while your fingers typed the address of their website on your device. There are, of course, a few casinos who don't apply this rule and consider residency as both the citizenship [place of birth, the country on your ID card, etc] and the country being visited, of which for such case, explained in extensive manner on their ToS, but far as I know, Rollbit doesn't apply this policy. Thus, after reading the whole conversation, I am a bit confused with their live support's explanation.

Best scenario I can fathom is that OP hits two different ToS violation at the same time, namely submitting NL residency, which got him into restricted territory ToS, and that he's actually accessing from Norway, of which doesn't allow online gambling other than the two that's owned and allowed by their own govt. [with the ToS being violated, the player should not play where gambling is prohibited by the law of the country]. But this doesn't align with their live support's explanation.

I'll need more context to understand this case better, this time from Rollbit's side.

I'm writing this during my morning routine and I have to run to do IRL activities. I'll be available again in few hours. Let me try to inquire to Razer about this matter once I'm available.


OP, the writing above is also addressed to you, I really have to run. Please have another patience when I do my IRL things, I'll try to reach Rollbit and get into the bottom of this once I'm available.

[Rollbit Razer]

This one is a pretty clear-cut case for us, player is a Netherlands resident.

When asked to complete KYC, they submitted both government identification and proof-of-address for the Netherlands.

Unfortunately, we are prohibited from accepting players from this region.

Player already had much more than their initial deposit returned to them.

Their claim about Norway is likely related to the VPN choice they had. We seen only 2 IP addresses for the account, both based in Norway.

[Rating Place]

This one is a pretty clear-cut case for us, player is a Netherlands resident.

When asked to complete KYC, they submitted both government identification and proof-of-address for the Netherlands.

Unfortunately, we are prohibited from accepting players from this region.

Player already had much more than their initial deposit returned to them.

Their claim about Norway is likely related to the VPN choice they had. We seen only 2 IP addresses for the account, both based in Norway.

Thanks for the explanation. “Resident” is where a person lives. I wish all casinos would enter the threads here.

[leftlanepapi]

This one is a pretty clear-cut case for us, player is a Netherlands resident.

When asked to complete KYC, they submitted both government identification and proof-of-address for the Netherlands.

Unfortunately, we are prohibited from accepting players from this region.

Player already had much more than their initial deposit returned to them.

Their claim about Norway is likely related to the VPN choice they had. We seen only 2 IP addresses for the account, both based in Norway.

As said im a double resident and been living in Norway with a valid residence permit for the past 9 months, why not let me re-verify my documents? I have never accessed Rollbit or registered my account from a blocked region and played legally.

Also could you give us the exact definition of "resident" that is being used to determine if a player should be banned. Would a player not be banned if they are a resident of a allowed country but are on vacation in a blocked country?

[Rating Place]

This one is a pretty clear-cut case for us, player is a Netherlands resident.

When asked to complete KYC, they submitted both government identification and proof-of-address for the Netherlands.

Unfortunately, we are prohibited from accepting players from this region.

Player already had much more than their initial deposit returned to them.

Their claim about Norway is likely related to the VPN choice they had. We seen only 2 IP addresses for the account, both based in Norway.

As said im a double resident and been living in Norway with a valid residence permit for the past 9 months, why not let me re-verify my documents? I have never accessed Rollbit or registered my account from a blocked region and played legally.

Also could you give us the exact definition of "resident" that is being used to determine if a player should be banned. Would a player not be banned if they are a resident of a allowed country but are on vacation in a blocked country?

With most books, a drivers license or passport along with a utility bill determines if they declare you a “resident”. If you are physically located in a different country, that does not make you a “resident” of where you are vacationing.

The vacation ban includes this type of terminology, “restricted countries” , “while located in”, “while residing in”.

Easiest way to see that resident doesn’t mean your physical location. If you live in North Korea, Rollbit isn’t going to pay you from play in unrestricted countries if you can somehow sneak your way back and forth.

Edited to condense.

[shasan]

A few days ago I deposited some money to play on rollbit. To deposit they required me to verify my ID so I did and it got approved, I managed to make $4100 profit and withdrew my deposit ($1100) right after that they asked me to do another level of kyc (level 3 where you have to add a selfie) so I did that and it got approved again.

Right after that they wanted me to do another level of kyc (level 4, address verification) for context I am a dual resident of the netherlands and norway and during the time of this I was in norway (still am right now) however I used the address verification of my residence in the netherlands as I thought the kyc was just for anti fraud purposes and still had that bill on my phone from another verfication I did. They locked my account with the $3200 inside for geo restrictions and are not letting me re-verify my residence in Norway.

My friend is down over $15k on this site and has never been asked to do a KYC check, to me it seems like they are using geo restriction as an excuse to make players forfeit big wins while they use the argument "You have already withdrew your deposit back" but they would never return the deposit if a player is in a loss. Casinos like stake would never hold your winnings like that and would instead put you in a "withdraw only mode". I personally think if they allow a player to gamble (taking the risk to lose it all) he should always be allowed to withdraw his winnings / remaining balance as long no fraud is involved.

Conversation with support: https://imgur.com/a/st3nepU

First of all, you have not created the post based on the mentioned format you can see the format below the post of you. Secondly, you have not provided any proof and you have just told me what happened without any proof. If you have any proof about the amount then you should provide that so that people can verify whether your story is right or wrong.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

If OP didn't win there would be no problem. They would have taken his deposits without even pondering to do KYC, since it would not be good for business banning a profitable player. Sure it's OP's own fault but it's also the system which is fxxked up.

When will casinos finally make KYC upon registration, this would end all this nonsense.

But I guess they don't want to because this scheme freerolling players wouldn't work anymore, won't it.

[Rating Place]

If OP didn't win there would be no problem. They would have taken his deposits without even pondering to do KYC, since it would not be good for business banning a profitable player. Sure it's OP's own fault but it's also the system which is fxxked up.

When will casinos finally make KYC upon registration, this would end all this nonsense.

But I guess they don't want to because this scheme freerolling players wouldn't work anymore, won't it.

I’d like to see these casinos pay all winnings and then ban the player. If the player comes back a second time, then take his money.

[holydarkness]

First of all, you have not created the post based on the mentioned format you can see the format below the post of you. Secondly, you have not provided any proof and you have just told me what happened without any proof. If you have any proof about the amount then you should provide that so that people can verify whether your story is right or wrong.

Is any of your request necessary at this point? This case has been addressed and clarified by Razer, it'll at least "verify" that the situation indeed happened.

[...]

When will casinos finally make KYC upon registration, this would end all this nonsense.

But I guess they don't want to because this scheme freerolling players wouldn't work anymore, won't it.

I was told by Razer few days ago that Rollbit's been/will be implementing this countermeasure, that they'll require player to complete basic KYC upon registration. I haven't check this myself as I've already have an account on Rollbit and I'm rather not interested to create a disposable account just to test the theory, but if anyone have some free time [and spare email account they're willing to give] can confirm this, that'll be helpful.