Welcome Bit VIP Coins! VIP Bitcoins & Crypto Collectables (Grand Opening!)

[MoparMiningLLC]

Hello, owlcatz

I'm not new to this forum. I bought my first physical Bitcoin in 2018. Joined the forum in 2019.
You can see my oldest posts and when I created my account. I've been collecting ever since.

who have you purchased from? Your trust ratings are blanks and all your visible merit is for polls/raffles and your OP about opening your site.

[Eclipse33]

Kaz,

I understand you not wanting to entertain negativity and skepticism, but do your best to answer these peoples questions.

This forum is very much-so reputation based, more-so than anything else. Without prior trade relationships and partnerships it is very hard to be accepted and trusted.

Trust here can be enhanced and lost based upon your actions alone. Once skepticism and distrust enter, it is very challenging to regain what has been previously lost. Tread lightly with every relationship you enter here, move slowly and deliberately. Relationships here take years and not months.

I think you have a great idea and have put together an actionable plan of commercial development for the community to consider and weigh in upon.

I think overall it's a net positive to offer your talents and expertise to this community. Even if this is one of the most hostile and challenging spaces to succeed in. Most coin makers aside from less than a handful are still in business after a decade, denarium one of the largest and most professional firms exited and closed it's doors. BTCC transitioned to different products. Mike left the space ect.

This space is ripe for development, but it has it's challenges. I would not let these things dissuade you from your quest and your ambitions.

Thank you for reading,

-Eclipse

[thebtcdoctor]

I understand everyone's point of view. I may need to brush up on my history of physicals but looks like a fun project. Let's see where this goes.

[Kazkaz27]

Hey Mopar,

I genuinely appreciate your concern and fully understand your perspective.

While my trust ratings may not reflect a significant number of purchases on the forum, I have been actively involved in selling, trading & purchasing items from various forum members, both on and off the forum. I have been a part of polls and raffles, which have helped me gradually build my reputation. Additionally, I've shared informative insights and posts that have earned me many of my merits, all aimed at assisting and informing others, as I believe this contributes positively to our discussions.

Out of respect for those involved, I prefer not to mention any names. I assure you that I'm in the process of establishing my site and am dedicated to earning trust through transparency and positive interactions moving forward.

[Kazkaz27]

Hello, Eclipse

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I completely understand the importance of reputation in this forum, and I appreciate your advice on addressing questions and concerns from others. Building trust takes time and consistent effort, and I’m committed to moving forward carefully and thoughtfully in all my interactions.

I value your insights. I too believe their is a lot of opportunities within this space. It’s reassuring to know that despite the difficulties, there’s potential for growth and development. I’m dedicated to contributing positively to the community and leveraging my skills to help others.

Thank you for your encouragement and support; it means a lot as I navigate this journey. If you have any further suggestions or insights, I’d love to hear them!

[Kazkaz27]

I understand everyone's point of view. I may need to brush up on my history of physicals but looks like a fun project. Let's see where this goes.

Hey, Doc

Happy to have you.

Here is a old post I made that can give you quite alot of information regarding history and some estimations/ statistics.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5490729.0

[tweetious]

Welcome Kazkaz27,

First of all, I wish you all the best with your "Bit VIP Bitcoin" project.

I have a few questions regarding the coins:

1) Will all the 11 designs be available in 3-6 months? If I  -theoretically- go through and place a pre-order for 1 coin of each design, will I have them all in my hands in 6 months maximum? If not, I might need to wait for more than 6 months, even for -let's say- more than a year? Could you please elaborate, since there are no production estimations on the pre-order page of each coin (only this large banner indicating that "Our Product  Release is in 3 - 6 Months!" without providing more details).

2) Could you please elaborate on the designs of the coins? Are those designs original work, created by you from scratch?

3) Do you have any real prototype coin(s) photos to share?

Lastly, concerning your site ("contact us/hours" section), I would suggest adding a timezone indication -so that the "10:00 am - 05:00 pm" makes sense - i.e. in which part of the world or US does the 10-5 corresponds to)

[Kazkaz27]

Hello, Tweetious

Thank you for your kind wishes regarding the "Bit VIP Bitcoin" project! I’m happy to address your questions:

1) Regarding the availability of all 11 designs, we aim to have them ready within the 3-6 month timeframe mentioned. However, production times can sometimes be affected by various factors. If you place a pre-order for one of each design, we will strive to deliver them all within the 6 months. If there are any unexpected delays, we will communicate those as soon as possible.

2) The designs of the coins are indeed original works created specifically for this project. Only 1 design out of the 11 is not entirely my own artwork. We wanted to ensure that each design reflects the unique aspects of the "Bit VIP Bitcoin" concept. I will be adding more information about the designs on the website shortly. We also have social medias on all platforms. You should be able to find them, they are all linked together. Much more information is located on our social medias regarding the coins and their designs. You can get better connected @VPBitcoins & @Vip_Bitcoins

3) Currently, we do not have prototype coin photos available to share, but we will be providing those as production progresses. Your interest in seeing prototypes is appreciated, and we’ll keep our community updated.

Lastly, thank you for your suggestion regarding the timezone indication in the "contact us/hours" section. We will definitely consider adding that to make our operating hours clearer for everyone. Updates are being made daily and we are inching closer and closer to releasing our first product!

If you have any more questions or need further clarification, feel free to ask!

[PreciousMetapsICT]

Best advice out there is to not do pre orders. Well for the buyers anyways. I have never had a pre order delivered on time and there are  almost always are issues (even if out of control of the producer) and significant delays - even from known producers. Recent memory I can name 1hodlclub, rarity check, and even Lealana as culprits of delays that did eventually deliver. I’m sure there’s a list of undelivered pre sales as well - btc penny?!

There are a lot of moving parts to make a physical crypto coin. It’s not as easy as one may think.

Holograms - you need a specific 10 gram size which is not typical. You can tell the quality of a maker based completely on their hologram as cheap China ones will be easier to remove, but much cheaper to buy. High quality holos will have multiple colors and much better security features. Very difficult to remove without leaving a trace. Also significantly more expensive.

Keys - 10 gram coins will be some very small keys. I’d stick to a QR code and make sure you leave the entire back for the key

Production - going to have to have someone produce these coins. Be it 10 gram blanks struck by hand or mass produced by someone else. Usually the cause of most delays, but still more moving parts

Quality - you have some very detailed coins that could look great, like the bomb going off one. But how will that translate to a 10 gram coin. Good luck but generally AI generated images don’t translate into a coin very well.

Presales do nothing for the community but enrich a makers pockets on the hope they can get all these other things to line up so they can release a single coin… and you wanna do how many designs? Like 10?

I don’t expect a reply, but granted my opinion will still be stated.

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

[MoparMiningLLC]

agreed - no pre-orders. Add to the risk of buyers not getting what they paid for - there is the risk of loss to both the seller and the buyer, depending on the price of Bitcoin. Depending on that price swing, it has led to complete lines of items being cancelled and buyers not getting their funds back.

If you cannot afford to make the products on your own dime, then you should not make them. It should never be on the backs of the customers.

[Eclipse33]

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.

For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.

If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.  

Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.

Thoughts?

[MoparMiningLLC]

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.

For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.

If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.  

Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.

Thoughts?

if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.

doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.

There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.

[PreciousMetapsICT]

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.

For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.

If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.  

Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.

Thoughts?

You shouldn’t call it a presale, it should be a capital investment project. For example - I’m sure smoothie has the funds to make all of his coins beforehand and then sell them. Instead he does pre sales… which pretty much suck. But at least it’s a presale from a known verified creator. You know you are 99% likely going to get your coins. Now Stacks may get them quicker, but yours will show up in time. I don’t consider that a capital investment just cheap way to do business.

Now if you don’t have the capital to fund it yourself -  I’m literally an investor in your dream and it should be noted that way. Sad thing is nobody admits this. Those that can finance it do, those that can’t launch a presale even tho they are just using that money to build. Sometimes it works out and a lot of times the buyer ends up fucked. But it’s pretty much a near guarantee that the deadline won’t be hit.

[MoparMiningLLC]

100% agree w/ PreciousMetapsICT  - the risk needs to be on the seller/maker not on the customer. If it is on the customer then it is indeed an investment and a risky one. That is one reason to start small and cheaper - to build capital, not take $10 in silver add $60 in BTC and sell for $200 if you cannot fund that cost yourself.

people come into this space with quick get rich schemes all the time - most are broke and expect the community to shoulder their cost - and when they fuck it up, they beg forgiveness and blame it on being "new".

with any business, dont start what you cannot pay for.

That is the main reason I have not yet made the coin I want to make and instead are working for others - to build my capital.

I dont like the idea of putting anyone here at risk. It simply is bad business to do so.

[Eclipse33]

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.

For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.

If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.  

Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.

Thoughts?

if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.

doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.

There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.

What specifically do you consider to be a "Quick" time-frame.

I know Kaz is proposing a 3-6 month loose timeline. I feel this is by no means "Quick", and to be out my money for this long poses a risk and a danger.

Much can change within 3 to 6 months, things can go wrong, people can get sick, geopolitical events can unfold.

If the timeline was 30 days I would be much more willing to entertain the idea.

--------

Also if the funding amount was held in an escrow theoretically held by MJ this would put me at ease, but in that event the funds could not be used towards funding the project development.

--------

Perhaps if the idea was fully transparent as opposed to being murky with factors hidden from the eyes of investors. We need perfected logistics, design blueprints and public transparent transactions so investors can see where there money is going.

[Eclipse33]

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.

For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.

If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.  

Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.

Thoughts?

You shouldn’t call it a presale, it should be a capital investment project. For example - I’m sure smoothie has the funds to make all of his coins beforehand and then sell them. Instead he does pre sales… which pretty much suck. But at least it’s a presale from a known verified creator. You know you are 99% likely going to get your coins. Now Stacks may get them quicker, but yours will show up in time. I don’t consider that a capital investment just cheap way to do business.

Now if you don’t have the capital to fund it yourself -  I’m literally an investor in your dream and it should be noted that way. Sad thing is nobody admits this. Those that can finance it do, those that can’t launch a presale even tho they are just using that money to build. Sometimes it works out and a lot of times the buyer ends up fucked. But it’s pretty much a near guarantee that the deadline won’t be hit.

Smoothie is an excellent example of a maker who does a presale indeed.

He creates a design, maybe obtains a sample and pitches the community on the idea at a price point that allows him to make a profit as well as cover his expenses.

Liquid options on the other-hand is an excellent example of someone who builds first, asks for money second.

LO pops up once a month, out of nowhere with a fully finished product. Ready to go, sometimes the same day the buyer pays.

In terms of safety, LEALANA has a huge longstanding reputation that he is able to fall back on for his presales. He knows that this forum would kill and butcher him if does not deliver.

LO is much more new, and maybe he can't swing a presale with his reputation. Even though his coins and delivery are top-notch.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

[MoparMiningLLC]

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.

For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.

If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.  

Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.

Thoughts?

if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.

doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.

There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.

What specifically do you consider to be a "Quick" time-frame.

I know Kaz is proposing a 3-6 month loose timeline. I feel this is by no means "Quick", and to be out my money for this long poses a risk and a danger.

Much can change within 3 to 6 months, things can go wrong, people can get sick, geopolitical events can unfold.

If the timeline was 30 days I would be much more willing to entertain the idea.

--------

Also if the funding amount was held in an escrow theoretically held by MJ this would put me at ease, but in that event the funds could not be used towards funding the project development.

for me "quick" is also not 3-6 months - not even 3 months is fast. just the fact that Bitcoin prices change so much (so even if price is in USD, most may pay with Bitcoin or sell Bitcoin to pay with USD) so the longer the time frame the more likely that the customer will get screwed as price goes up and they could have paid less. This is, of course, good for the seller. But if the price drops, what happens? Seller no longer has funds to release the product and it takes longer (we have seen this quite a few times).

30 days is also reasonable.

Being a new maker I also feel his coins are way over priced - makes it seem like a cash grab.

[Eclipse33]

Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong

How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.

For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.

If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.  

Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.

Thoughts?

if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.

doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.

There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.

What specifically do you consider to be a "Quick" time-frame.

I know Kaz is proposing a 3-6 month loose timeline. I feel this is by no means "Quick", and to be out my money for this long poses a risk and a danger.

Much can change within 3 to 6 months, things can go wrong, people can get sick, geopolitical events can unfold.

If the timeline was 30 days I would be much more willing to entertain the idea.

--------

Also if the funding amount was held in an escrow theoretically held by MJ this would put me at ease, but in that event the funds could not be used towards funding the project development.

for me "quick" is also not 3-6 months - not even 3 months is fast. just the fact that Bitcoin prices change so much (so even if price is in USD, most may pay with Bitcoin or sell Bitcoin to pay with USD) so the longer the time frame the more likely that the customer will get screwed as price goes up and they could have paid less. This is, of course, good for the seller. But if the price drops, what happens? Seller no longer has funds to release the product and it takes longer (we have seen this quite a few times).

30 days is also reasonable.

Being a new maker I also feel his coins are way over priced - makes it seem like a cash grab.

30 days or less for me. Ideally a plan is laid out in-full and investor funds are publicly disclosed as to how they are being used / spent.

Maybe pie charts and colorful graphs as to where every dollar of investor capital is being allocated.

In terms of bitcoin volatility, this will always be a problem.

Seller would either need to cash the bitcoin into dollars right away to reduce the volatility, or legit gamble on the price. Up or down.

In terms of running a proper operation, none of this should be gambling or half baked. It needs to be planed out, margins calculated in advance, timelines, blueprints and technical details all done in advance.

Where my projects have not panned out in the past, there was not enough hard math and data. There was too much guess work and intuition involved. Planning and deliberate movement are a requirement, not a symptom of an operation.

[Eclipse33]

Here are some questions that I came-up with.

Only because I am going through a similar process right now.

1. Legal Structure: Does Bit VIP Coins have an established legal structure, such as an LLC or corporation?

2. Company Registration: Is there a registered company that manages the finances of Bit VIP Coins? If so, what state is it registered in?

3. Business Address and Agent: Who is the registered agent for the company, and what is the official business address?

4. Claims and Legal Address: In the event of civil or criminal claims, is there an official address where legal paperwork can be sent?

5. EIN and IRS Registration: Does Bit VIP Coins have an Employer Identification Number (EIN) and is it registered with the IRS, or is financial activity being handled through personal accounts?

[Kazkaz27]

Thank you for sharing these insights and concerns. I appreciate the feedback and want to clarify a few points regarding the project.

Firstly, I want to emphasize that I have never requested anyone to make pre-orders. I'm fully funding this project myself, covering all costs without relying on customer contributions. This means that the risk is on me, not on the buyers, which is a principle I firmly believe in.

I understand the frustrations surrounding pre-orders and the potential for delays. The production of physical crypto coins indeed involves numerous complexities, including sourcing high-quality materials like holograms and ensuring the design translates well into a physical product. I am committed to maintaining transparency throughout the entire process, so everyone involved can see how the project is progressing.

Regarding timelines, I acknowledge that a 3-6 month period may seem lengthy and comes with inherent risks. I am exploring ways to potentially shorten this timeframe and will keep communication open about any developments. Your suggestion of using escrow to hold funds until project milestones are met is a valid one, and I will consider this in planning.

It's also important to highlight that while some makers can successfully launch pre-sales based on their established reputations, I aim to build trust through transparency and delivering a product that meets quality expectations. Your concerns about pricing and the need for detailed planning are taken seriously; my goal is to create a sustainable business model that mitigates risk for everyone involved.

I appreciate the dialogue and your continued interest in this project. Your feedback is invaluable as I strive to create a positive experience for all potential buyers and supporters.