[an offer is not actual any more] Initial Financing for Mining Farm Project

[Etranger]

I would like to address the forum community regarding the following offer. I am working with a team of professionals who are aiming to find an Investor to build and manage bitcoin mining farm, which will be located either in Scandinavia or the USA. Currently, our main task is to find a Main Investor who will join the company by providing funding for the launch of the farm, while we, as a team, fully take on the operational activities. We have experience working on such projects as hired employees, but we desire to make a step forward and enter this project on more equal positions.

We handle all the procedural matters, ensuring the farm's operation. The Main Investor receives 75% of the net profit, while we (the entire team, 4 people) receive 25%. If someone is interested, I will send a project proposal with detailed information.

For almost a year, we have been operating in self-financing mode, without external funding. The preparatory phase, which has taken 9 months so far, has been entirely funded by the project participants. Now we have reached the stage where it is necessary to establish a company, engage a legal consultant (specializing in the crypto space), and order technical and legal due diligence for the potential farm location. This requires initial funding that, unfortunately, can no longer be provided solely through our efforts.

Since all our team is from Ukraine, we face lots of obstacles, regarding engaging finances withing our national financial system and private investors. Ukraine has been suffering from war for 2,5 years, I guess there is no need to describe how unpleasant the investment background is right now.  Therefore, we are seeking someone who can finance this first stage of our project.

We need $150,000, which we plan to repay in a year, along with a 15% investor interest on top. Additionally, we offer 1 BTC in the event of a successful farm launch (if we manage to secure a Main Investor and build the farm by then).

I believe that our specialized crypto forum is much more receptive to such matters than direct appeals to people who are involved in completely different businesses. I don’t view our offer as a hidden loan, as I am openly explaining what these funds are needed for. I also believe that there should be an interest rate involved so that the First-Stage investor is incentivized to participate in this venture.

What will these funds be used for?
•      Creation of a company whose purpose is managing the crypto farm and investment activities (October-November)
•      Creation of company's identity (November-January)
•   Hiring a specialist or company as a legal advisor (October)
•   Legal support for the creation and operation of the company (October-November)
•   Business trips for that members of our team who are currently not in Ukraine to countries where the crypto farm locations are situated (October-January)
•   Business meetings with investment funds and private investors (October-January)
•   Attending leading crypto conferences (October-January)
•   Legal and technical inspections of the locations (November-January)
•   Payment for services provided by contractors:
        1.   Consultations with electricity suppliers
        2.   Consultations and development of the technical specifications for the crypto farm location
        3.   Brokerage services for location search (engagement fee)
        4.   Consultations on spot electricity trading and the FRR market
        5.   Development of a Heat Recapture Technology plan (possibility of selling the heat)
        6.   Consultations and work with government representatives regarding permits for the crypto farm's operations

Investor Interest for the First Stage of Investment:

After one year from the investment, the First-Stage Investor will receive back the principal investment and 15% profit.
In the event of a successful launch of the project, at the end of the first year of the crypto farm's operation, the First-Stage Investor will also receive an additional amount of 1 BTC , along with the return of the body ($150,000) and 15% ($22,500).
Additionally, the Investor in the first stage will have access to the entire project's pipeline.
The second and third stages of investment are planned after the company is established.

Project Pipeline (more details are provided in the proposal for building the crypto farm):
1.   October-January (execution of tasks for the first round of investment)
2.   December-February (execution of tasks for the second round of investment)
3.   February-September (execution of tasks for the third round of investment)
The pipeline starts from receiving the first amount of investment and ends with the construction of the crypto farm.

I understand that attracting investments is always associated with doubts and risks. I am ready to answer all specific questions, if there is genuine interest and proposals, rather than just comments suggesting that we won't succeed. We are not going to abandon our plan, despite hearing from all sides how unrealistic it is, especially for people in a country where there is such a continuous war. We are exploring all possible options and believe that we can achieve our goals. We would be happy to welcome those who are sincerely willing to join us.

[Vod]

Do you wish to remain anonymous?  If so, what collateral do you offer?

[Etranger]

Do you wish to remain anonymous?  If so, what collateral do you offer?

Do you mean that collateral is only needed if we won’t open our identities?

We are open to reveal our identities if I make sure that I get some serious interest from someone and intention to make a deal.

I also would like to know what exactly could be a collateral. So that we know what are the options.

[Vod]

Do you mean that collateral is only needed if we won’t open our identities?

I cannot speak for the crypto lenders here, as they operate under different expectations, but normally, an investor will want to make sure he is not getting scammed.    If you reveal your team, you're don't shrug off financial responsibility (like get incorporated),  and have a good business plan, a lender may offer you a loan here - but you'd get much better rates at a local bank.

Sounds like you want to remain anonymous.   You can read my post on good collateral, but I'll save you time - no one here will lend you $150K based on words alone.

[hugeblack]

I don't know but your timing is not ideal as investing $150k or about 2.3 BTC for a mining project and promising a return on capital plus 10% doesn't seem attractive with the possibility of Bitcoin rising to $140k by next September.

Also the promise of 1 BTC during this period plus a return on capital plus 10% profit seems very exaggerated unless you specify the country and average electricity costs.

In such projects unless you appear professional it is difficult to find an investor who pays $70k.
It is easy to get a one who pays $10k in such investments but you need to hire a good financial and legal advisor to ensure that 15 investors join with an average of $10k.

I know some people who might be interested but now is not the ideal time, mining projects usually do well in the mining winter when it is difficult to make profits from trading.

anyway good luck

[Etranger]

 If you reveal your team, you're don't shrug off financial responsibility (like get incorporated),  and have a good business plan, a lender may offer you a loan here....

I am ready to disclose my identity, as well as that of other team members, but only in private communication with a potentially interested investor. I will not reveal my personal details to all members of the forum, especially considering that the forum is originally characterized by anonymity and privacy. I don't know if doing so would even lead to the desired outcome.

.... but you'd get much better rates at a local bank.

The conditions in our Ukrainian banks are currently set up in such a way that people simply cannot meet them. This is done to seize collateral, which is usually priced much higher than the loan amount. It's a scheme that has existed in post-Soviet countries for about 30 years, and now, during the war, it has become even more widespread.

I can immediately tell that you’re a foreigner from some developed and sensible country, where bank loans are not given at 45-60% annual interest rates (moreover, these loans are tied to the dollar, not to the constantly depreciating national currency), and where banks don't try to take away a person’s last home. But these are the conditions I live under. If there were an opportunity to approach a decent bank with fair terms, I would have done so. However, I should note that I have already explored all local options and made attempts to use them. Currently, they are simply not viable at all.

There is also no separate Ukrainian section on the forum, only a thread, which has limited activity. I reached out to those Ukrainian forum members whom I trust and am now following their advice. However, as I’ve already mentioned, the investment climate in Ukraine is extremely challenging right now, with most people struggling to afford even basic survival.

.... no one here will lend you $150K based on words alone

Of course, no one invests based solely on words. However, to reveal additional details, we need to ensure that we are sharing them with a specific interested person and not publicly. If such a person is found, I will provide my personal information, including a link to my LinkedIn profile, and we can continue the conversation and discuss terms privately or in any other convenient format.

We are open to feedback and willing to consider other terms (aside from increasing the profit percentage) if we are convinced that someone is genuinely interested and has serious intentions. Everything can be discussed, and common ground can be found. Under these conditions, we are also open to sharing project details and involving the investor in the specifics.

Sounds like you want to remain anonymous.

I have no intention of remaining anonymous when it comes to securing the necessary funding. I was merely responding to your question within the logic in which it was posed.

Do you wish to remain anonymous?  If so, what collateral do you offer?

You asked about collateral in case I want to remain anonymous, which is why I inquired whether collateral is required only under such conditions. Additionally, I would like to know if you are personally interested in my proposal.

[Vod]

I am ready to disclose my identity, as well as that of other team members, but only in private communication with a potentially interested investor.

In that private communication, you will do your best to convince him/her to invest without community involvement (i.e. trust me). If you have a potential legitimate project, tell us who you are.

(If you think I'm crazy - good news!  People will back you as soon as you explain why anyone woulc give you $150K without knowing who the money is going to)

You are a decade late, my scammr friend. 

[Etranger]

First of all, let’s start with your address to me as ‘scummr friend.’

We do not know each other, so we are not friends.

Secondly, there are no financial obligations between us, so calling it a scam is your assumption.

Thirdly, I wrote that I am willing to reveal my identity in a private chat if I understand that we are discussing a serious matter. For some reason, you insist that I disclose something to you.

Anyone interested can write to me in a private chat, and revealing all my personal information on a public site, which is known for having mostly anonymous users, is contradictory.

I also would like to provide a more wide answer for those who might be interested in our conversation.

In that private communication, you will do your best to convince him/her to invest without community involvement (i.e. trust me). If you have a potential legitimate project, tell us who you are.

How I convince a potentially interested investor in private communication is my business, which should not be brought to the public. I believe in our project and have enough arguments to demonstrate its potential and feasibility. I think it is quite clear that I do not want to reveal these details to absolutely everyone, considering that the overwhelming majority are either not interested in my proposal or do not have the necessary amount for investment.

(If you think I'm crazy - good news!  People will back you as soon as you explain why anyone woulc give you $150K without knowing who the money is going to)

You are a decade late, my scammr friend. 

It would be better if you spoke for yourself rather than for everyone. If you were genuinely interested, you could have written to me privately and inquired about the details. Instead, you are just stating something that is exclusively your opinion and, for some reason, attributing it to other users.

You are an interesting person. For some reason, you assume that I am trying to deceive someone, even though no means have been provided for that to happen. We are currently having a discussion on the level of "talking," not on the level of "acting." So far, no specific questions have been asked or specific proposals made, so it is unclear to me whether there is any interest from your side in my proposal.

However, in the absence of all this, you are suggesting that I should immediately reveal personal information, even though there is absolutely no basis (so far) to believe that this will help attract the attention of a potential investor. If someone is interested in the proposal, they will show interest to the offer itself without my initial disclosure of identity. If it is not interesting to anyone, then revealing my identity will not serve as an additional argument for someone to change their mind. They don't know me as I am either way, but we can get acquaint if what I propose turns out to be interesting to someone.

Your suggestion is that I immediately reveal who I am, even though this is an irreversible action, which may not even lead to the result I desire (and I do not plan to leave the forum, nor do I understand leading you logic why others have the right to maintain privacy while I do not). I believe that accusing someone of scamming requires much more basis and evidence. I have not given reasons to think so, so your accusations are unfounded and offensive.

[DireWolfM14]

If I wanted to invest $150k in a mining operation I would do it myself in my own country and hire my own team.  Even in the USA's the Pacific North West there are plenty of affordable properties, and dirt-cheap electricity.  With $150k one could even budget the purchase of a small piece of land with a quonset hut and pay a mortgage instead of rent, thus stabilizing long-term expenses.

The trouble is, mining isn't as profitable as it once was.  The scale of mining that you could do with $150k is still pretty small compared to the large pools, and the chance of snagging a block is pretty small if you're solo mining.  If you latch on to a pool yourself, you'll only be rewarded for your hashrate.  Creating a pool of your own requires more resources and advertising, which will eat into your budget and reduce the number of mining rigs you can purchase/build.

I think your intentions are legitimate, but I also agree with Vod that you're about a decade too late for such a business to be viable at the scale you're suggesting.

[Etranger]

DireWolfM14, you (and maybe Vod as well) misunderstood my proposal. My team is not building a crypto farm for $150,000. That would be a very small farm, which indeed would not be profitable. We are seeking a first-stage investment of $150,000 for the aforementioned in OP necessary actions:

What will these funds be used for?
•      Creation of a company whose purpose is managing the crypto farm and investment activities (October-November)
•      Creation of company's identity (November-January)
•   Hiring a specialist or company as a legal advisor (October)
•   Legal support for the creation and operation of the company (October-November)
•   Business trips for that members of our team who are currently not in Ukraine to countries where the crypto farm locations are situated (October-January)
•   Business meetings with investment funds and private investors (October-January)
•   Attending leading crypto conferences (October-January)
•   Legal and technical inspections of the locations (November-January)
•   Payment for services provided by contractors:
        1.   Consultations with electricity suppliers
        2.   Consultations and development of the technical specifications for the crypto farm location
        3.   Brokerage services for location search (engagement fee)
        4.   Consultations on spot electricity trading and the FRR market
        5.   Development of a Heat Recapture Technology plan (possibility of selling the heat)
        6.   Consultations and work with government representatives regarding permits for the crypto farm's operations

After the establishment of the company and other preparatory stages, which I have mentioned once again above, there will be the main stage of attracting investments for the actual construction of the farm. For this, we have already established connections with professional investment funds that consider such proposals and are ready to invest large sums. However, they work not with individuals, but with companies. I have already explained that creating the company requires funds, which we currently do not have ourselves. Everything we could pay from our own pockets, we have already covered. Now, to move forward, we need this $150,000 to proceed to the main stage of attracting the Main Investor.

If you are interested in more detailed numbers of the project, I will provide them here to give a better understanding of what I am actually presenting to the community and to avoid unfounded accusations of scam.

[Vod]

You are 100% going to scam - you've stated as such already.  You won't even try hard as you don't need the project to succeed. 

In the event of a successful launch of the project...

So you make a Ukrainian corporation, then spend all your money on trips for members of your team not in Ukraine, after saying all your team members are in Ukraine.     If your investor has a legal stand (good luck - ukraine isn't in nato for a reason), your defence is simple - you spent the money as you said you would (hey, those limos out there aren't free) and things just didn't work out.  You're very sorry, but thank goodness you didn't tie your name to it - you can try again. 

If you are serious about building a mining farm, tell us who you are and your education/experience.  Then we can help you reduce your setup expenses from $150,000 by 80% or more.  We can give you advice, help you meet with investors without expensive caviar meetings, etc.   But please don't continue asking for any irreversible currency unless you are willing to identify yourself, provide properal collateral (if it is your last house yes we take it) or provide more than just words.

[Etranger]

To be honest, I am tired of responding to baseless accusations, as you didn’t even bother to carefully read my initial post.

So you make a Ukrainian corporation....

Tell me, where was it mentioned that the company would be created in Ukraine? Your assumptions live their own life, as far, as I can see. What possible logic could be hiding after creating a Ukrainian company (in a country with literally no opportunity to find investments) for building a farm

which will be located either in Scandinavia or the USA

?

then spend all your money on trips for members of your team not in Ukraine, after saying all your team members are in Ukraine.....

I believe, you really find it very hard to reveal the true meaning of the sentences I wrote, that is why you continue to make something up by yourself.

•   Business trips for that members of our team who are currently not in Ukraine to countries where the crypto farm locations are situated

Then we can help you reduce your setup expenses from $150,000 by 80% or more......

How can you possibly help me with something if you don't even manage to read what I am writing? Help me with what? Help me trying to understand, where do the assumptions come from that caviar and limousines will be bought?

I see that, judging by your assumptions, you might have had a wealth of experience in understanding how investments work and how they should be managed.

In that case – tell us who you are and your education/experience, and we will make an official request for collaboration with your organization (if such exists, of course). You will provide us with a commercial proposal and explain how exactly investments should be used and, moreover, how to optimize them by 80% and get an official payment which will be taxed.

If you refuse – it will become clear to us that you are the intellectual scammer, who don't even bother to pay attention on what was written and whose expertise does not extend beyond the borders of this forum.

[Vod]

I see that, judging by your assumptions, you might have had a wealth of experience in understanding how investments work and how they should be managed.

The irony of assuming what I assume...

In that case – tell us who you are and your education/experience, and we will make an official request for collaboration with your organization (if such exists, of course). You will provide us with a commercial proposal and explain how exactly investments should be used and, moreover, how to optimize them by 80% and get an official payment which will be taxed.
If you refuse – it will become clear to us that you are the intellectual scammer, who don't even bother to pay attention on what was written and whose expertise does not extend beyond the borders of this forum.

Shhh Mr. tough guy, everyone knows that already and I'm not asking for $150,000 loan.     

[Etranger]

I see that, judging by your assumptions, you might have had a wealth of experience in understanding how investments work and how they should be managed.

The irony of assuming what I assume...

In that case – tell us who you are and your education/experience, and we will make an official request for collaboration with your organization (if such exists, of course). You will provide us with a commercial proposal and explain how exactly investments should be used and, moreover, how to optimize them by 80% and get an official payment which will be taxed.
If you refuse – it will become clear to us that you are the intellectual scammer, who don't even bother to pay attention on what was written and whose expertise does not extend beyond the borders of this forum.

Shhh Mr. tough guy, everyone knows that already and I'm not asking for $150,000 loan.     

It’s very convenient to respond only to the statements that are comfortable for you. Look at how detailed my responses are, and how brief are yours. It’s clear who is actually interested in making his position more clear and who is just a local troll. Good luck in your victorious imaginary verification battles on the pages of this forum ;>
s a side note, judging and assuming are different things. Unlike you, I draw conclusions from the actual words you’ve written, not from something I’ve imagined myself.

Just so you know, I’m not asking for money from you, in case you misunderstood. I don’t recall any specific request from you for funding. You haven't shown any genuine interest, nor have you provided any constructive feedback. I also have no confidence that you even have the amount we need. Considering that I haven’t seen any substantial arguments from your side, I’m drawing the corresponding conclusion about your qualifications. Moreover, I’m not asking for anything. I’m offering something. This is a deal, not charity or assistance.


By the way, I forgot to comment in my previous post on your extraordinary suggestion to cut the necessary budget by 80% or more. So, according to you, I should be making an offer for $30,000 or even less. Interesting that for such an amount, you suggest taking my last house, the one I live in, as collateral. Who are we, by the way, who will take it?

Then we can help you reduce your setup expenses from $150,000 by 80% or more.  We can give you advice, help you meet with investors without expensive caviar meetings, etc.   But please don't continue asking for any irreversible currency unless you are willing to identify yourself, provide properal collateral (if it is your last house yes we take it) or provide more than just words.

Clearly, you understand Ukrainian realities much better than you initially demonstrated. Maybe you are yourself from a non-NATO country?

[DireWolfM14]

~
Project price: $40,000,000

     

Seriously dude!  That's like Silicon Valley level start up money.  Not the kind of money you get for a totally speculative business that relies on price fluctuations of the "product" (i.e. bitcoin) and the off chance that you'll be snagging a block reward a rare occasion.

Just from math perspective your proposed number of miners will produce only 1.5EH while the competition is pushing 200.  That wouldn't even put you in the top 20.  Not to mention, nearly $8 million of your budget is slated for stuff that isn't making you any money.  I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but Vod's skepticism is starting to infect me too.

If you think $150k is going to set you on your way to secure $40 million in funding for such a lopsided proposal, you truly are delusional.  Or looking to scam.

[examplens]

Now we have reached the stage where it is necessary to establish a company, engage a legal consultant (specializing in the crypto space), and order technical and legal due diligence for the potential farm location. This requires initial funding that, unfortunately, can no longer be provided solely through our efforts.

Unfortunately, you have entered a vicious circle here. In fact, you are asking for a personal loan from an unknown investor, so you do not currently have a registered company, nor are you under anyone's supervision (supervision of the relevant state authorities).
In order to be able to expect more significant loansinvestment, you must have a company, while in fact, you are borrowing asking for money to establish a company which will at some point guarantee the payment of profit.

It turns out that you only have an idea, but you are completely out of money to start a business. I would not be optimistic about the realization.

[Vod]

It turns out that you only have an idea, but you are completely out of money to start a business. I would not be optimistic about the realization.

Maybe he is hoping his winning personality will make up the difference. 

[Etranger]

Seriously dude!  That's like Silicon Valley level start up money.  Not the kind of money you get for a totally speculative business that relies on price fluctuations of the "product" (i.e. bitcoin) and the off chance that you'll be snagging a block reward a rare occasion.

Just from math perspective your proposed number of miners will produce only 1.5EH while the competition is pushing 200.  That wouldn't even put you in the top 20.  Not to mention, nearly $8 million of your budget is slated for stuff that isn't making you any money.  I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but Vod's skepticism is starting to infect me too.

If you think $150k is going to set you on your way to secure $40 million in funding for such a lopsided proposal, you truly are delusional.  Or looking to scam.

Your comment is well-structured and indeed raises valid questions and doubts on the topic.

Except for the last paragraph, but I suggest we have a discussion on this topic together.

The number of machines – 3000 with a capacity of 473 terahashes (they haven’t been officially released yet, distribution starts in November) – S21 Hydro XP with water cooling.

Undoubtedly, it can be mentioned that these machines will fall behind in competition in half a year or a year, like Hut 8 machines with more than 800 terahashes per unit (these machines are expected in Q2 2025, but their new chip still needs to be tested on the mass market). However, today, the S21 XP Hydro are cutting-edge machines with significant energy efficiency (5.67 kW/h).

If you do the math, you’ll see consumption of nearly 20 MW (adding in the consumption of the cooling system).

This is regarding the machines, and I believe there’s no doubt about their reliability and efficiency.

In response to the thesis that $8,000,000 is going towards something that doesn't generate financial returns:

The farm’s efficiency depends not only on terahash performance but also on energy efficiency indicators and the cost of electricity.

A large portion of the sum is allocated to provide the location with the necessary on-grid electricity and, in fact, a fixed electricity cost contract (for up to 5 years).

Such locations exist, but in most cases, they don't have an electricity substation nearby, which means a substation capable of supplying and transmitting 20 MW from the power plant on a permanent basis needs to be built.

To have such a location for the farm, the following is required:

- Build a substation (if necessary, which it usually is)
- Purchase the location/plot of land
- Conduct due diligence on the company that owns the plot
- Perform technical inspections of the location

All of this is included in the budget mentioned above.

Also, a significant portion of the funds goes to the cooling system, which is a central element of the mining farm's operation.

Can this be avoided?
The answer is no.

Do we need funds for equipment maintenance?
Of course, equipment often breaks down, especially the new water-cooling system (immersive cooling is even more expensive to operate).

If you believe that the $8,000,000 allocated to ensure the farm's operation is going nowhere, I have no further arguments beyond those listed above.

If you also conduct market research in both the USA and Northern Europe, you’ll find that most locations cost more than $4,000,000 per location.

We have allocated $1,800,000 for this.

If mining farms weren’t profitable, no one would be involved in them.

I hope I have addressed some of the points that raised your concerns.

[Vod]

You'll need to borrow this money from your local community.  They can hold you accountable at whatever level they feel is appropriate.

We send you money, you'll disappear faster than the people holding 500 bitcoin for this forum.    

[Etranger]

You'll need to borrow this money from your local community.  They can hold you accountable at whatever level they feel is appropriate.

We send you money, you'll disappear faster than the people holding 500 bitcoin for this forum.    

That is only your assumption, again, it is absolutely unfounded; you have provided neither evidence nor any justification. You base your accusations, both in this thread and in your review of my trust, exclusively on your own opinions. You have not explained who the 'we' are you are constantly referring to; I don't even understand who these 'we' are, who could potentially invest in my proposal. As far as I can see, you are the only one who spread all this accusations against me and I don’t see any of your allies in this activity.

You only have general statements that do not answer any of the questions I have personally asked you directly. It’s a very convenient position because you can accuse someone of anything without taking any responsibility for it. So far, the situation looks like I haven’t taken anything from anyone, haven’t deceived anyone, and haven’t cheated anyone out of money. However, you have managed to accuse me of all of this several times, ruined my trust for no reason, and continue to throw around baseless accusations.

Once again just to be clear: you have all the right not to trust me and have your doubts. But I didn’t address my offer to you personally. I don’t wait this funding from you, and honestly, even if you offered to invest in my project, I would reject this offer after all you have written here. You can have you doubts, but if you continue to accuse me of something, please, make at least some efforts to provide some prof.