[an offer is not actual any more] Initial Financing for Mining Farm Project

[Vod]

if very briefly - the documentation and pre-project preparation alone deserves respect, a lot of work has been done and moreover - it is real work !

We look forward to reading it!   I wonder why the OP couldn't show us he did more than ten minutes work.  :/

The answer to your question can be answered by reading this thread. The reason - you never once asked for information, but actively insulted the author and the project with your FANTASIES .
Or if I am wrong - point out in which post I missed your request to the author - “show your calculations, we will discuss constructively” ?

No worries friend - we can move forward.  

Looking forward to all this planning and details!

So I am right, and the reason that you were not shown this data is that you did not ask for it, right ? I just want not just to continue the dialog, but also to get answers to simple questions, which for some reason the opponent does not want to answer ! This is not how dialog is conducted, or everyone answers your questions, and you ignore and bypass questions in your direction. Let's be consistent - first you answer my questions, then I will continue my answers to your questions and expectations. Otherwise it's not a dialog but a “game in one gate”, but it will not be like that, it is not an acceptable way of dialog... I understand you are more comfortable and “safer”, but the rules are the same for everyone !

You can start a topic in Reputation or Meta to gain support for your assumptions, if you choose.  I'm interested in the project details!  Asking for them again  

[DrBeer]

....
 I'm interested in the project details!  Asking for them again  

Look what a great result - it turns out that you can have a constructive dialog, without insults and accusations of what you can not prove

I will try to share the information by evening.

[examplens]

I have already explained, how $15,000 and the rest $135,000 as well will be used. You can scroll up and read it once again. When you find out the way to cut those expenses for creating GmbH in Switzerland, let's continue this conversation.

I looked at the costs, and frankly, too much money will be spent on various consultations and 'conversations', and it seems to me unjustified to take a loan + pay interest for such things, while the whole process has not moved forward much.

I assume that you can provide some clear guarantees for this money, some real estate that you own or similar. This should not be a problem if you already have a safe income that will cover the repayment of the loan investment.

btw. Why do you decide on Switzerland, one of the most expensive countries, if the location is not your primary concern? It seems like an unnecessary waste of investors' money, for a longer-term investment, it is necessary to demonstrate a much more rational spending of money.

[Etranger]

I looked at the costs, and frankly, too much money will be spent on various consultations and 'conversations', and it seems to me unjustified to take a loan + pay interest for such things, while the whole process has not moved forward much.

These consultations and 'conversations' are an integral part of the work. Having an idea is wonderful, but it needs a lot of research work to understand how to make this idea real. The whole idea of the farm, the calculations, and the implementation plan do not come out of thin air. To develop this project, we studied a lot of different information, attended meetings with working miners, communicated with Bitmain and Whatsminer representatives, real estate agents from different countries to learn what location is needed, and representatives of the energy sector. We invested a lot of time and money for self-education. Otherwise, our proposal would have been incompetent, and therefore the chances of the project's implementation would have been very low. We couldn't let it happen.

Attending conferences is a necessity because an investor for the main amount cannot be found somewhere like Walmart; I think that’s clear. Such people need to be sought in specific circles, among like-minded individuals who understand what we are talking about. Finding such people is quite challenging. To do this, you need to look for them specifically in places where these people gather—gather to have consultations and conversations with each other.

The process has progressed as far as possible without additional funding. We have done the maximum amount of work that can be done solely on our own initiative and with our own funds (we are not millionaires, at least not yet). Therefore, in my opinion, the project has made significant progress and is far from being just an idea that is ephemeral and unsubstantiated.

btw. Why do you decide on Switzerland, one of the most expensive countries, if the location is not your primary concern? It seems like an unnecessary waste of investors' money, for a longer-term investment, it is necessary to demonstrate a much more rational spending of money.

First, what does an unnecessary waste of investor's money mean if the investor gets his money back in full plus a very good interest rate? The investor may even not be concerned about where exactly the funds are going as long as we fulfill our obligations to him. Which we will. There are investors who are primarily interested in making a profit. They won’t be concerned about how exactly we use the funds or what we do as long as we ensure their return in time. For them, it’s purely a utilitarian interest. In that case, we do what we deem necessary, and the investor receives his money back along with the interest. Each party is satisfied. The terms of the agreement are very simple and straightforward. But I have explained, where those $150,000 will be going, our terms are open and purpose and cost of each category is justified.

Second, registering a company in Switzerland opens many doors. Switzerland in general, and certain cantons in particular, especially Zug, have fairly developed cryptocurrency legislation. This clarifies the procedures for tax payments, converting mined coins into fiat money, spending this income, and even the legal registration of cryptocurrency activities. Additionally, a company in Switzerland appears much more reputable than one in, say, Ethiopia, because Switzerland is known for its adherence to the law and protection of parties' rights.

[examplens]

These consultations and 'conversations' are an integral part of the work. Having an idea is wonderful, but it needs a lot of research work to understand how to make this idea real. The whole idea of the farm, the calculations, and the implementation plan do not come out of thin air. To develop this project, we studied a lot of different information, attended meetings with working miners, communicated with Bitmain and Whatsminer representatives, real estate agents from different countries to learn what location is needed, and representatives of the energy sector. We invested a lot of time and money for self-education. Otherwise, our proposal would have been incompetent, and therefore the chances of the project's implementation would have been very low. We couldn't let it happen.

Not to diminish your effort and work, but if you need another $150k for further research, I wonder how far you have gone beyond just an idea.
What will happen to the idea if these professional discussions show that your idea is not as viable as you thought (which is quite possible, because as you say you are self-educated), and you overlooked some additional costs... What is the plan in that case?

First, what does an unnecessary waste of investor's money mean if the investor gets his money back in full plus a very good interest rate? The investor may even not be concerned about where exactly the funds are going as long as we fulfill our obligations to him. Which we will. There are investors who are primarily interested in making a profit. They won’t be concerned about how exactly we use the funds or what we do as long as we ensure their return in time. For them, it’s purely a utilitarian interest. In that case, we do what we deem necessary, and the investor receives his money back along with the interest. Each party is satisfied. The terms of the agreement are very simple and straightforward. But I have explained, where those $150,000 will be going, our terms are open and purpose and cost of each category is justified.

Of course, the investor will be interested in how you dispose of his money. Especially if he still has no sure guarantee that he will get all his money (plus interest) back. Certainly, he will not be happy if you pay something like $1000 instead of $500, plus, the next investment in the purchase of equipment has yet to arrive.
Otherwise, you don't need an investor, but a bank that will give you a loan. If there are several of you in the team, it probably won't be a problem to give some real estate as a pledge that the loan will be repaid. In that case, you can wash your feet with Dom Perignon if you want, who cares as long as you pay off the debt.

Second, registering a company in Switzerland opens many doors. Switzerland in general, and certain cantons in particular, especially Zug, have fairly developed cryptocurrency legislation. This clarifies the procedures for tax payments, converting mined coins into fiat money, spending this income, and even the legal registration of cryptocurrency activities. Additionally, a company in Switzerland appears much more reputable than one in, say, Ethiopia, because Switzerland is known for its adherence to the law and protection of parties' rights.]Second, registering a company in Switzerland opens many doors. Switzerland in general, and certain cantons in particular, especially Zug, have fairly developed cryptocurrency legislation. This clarifies the procedures for tax payments, converting mined coins into fiat money, spending this income, and even the legal registration of cryptocurrency activities. Additionally, a company in Switzerland appears much more reputable than one in, say, Ethiopia, because Switzerland is known for its adherence to the law and protection of parties' rights.

In your case, Switzerland does not have a better reputation than, for example, Germany, but it is certainly more expensive. You also reject the US as an option, I guess Switzerland's reputation in the business world is better.

[Etranger]

Not to diminish your effort and work, but if you need another $150k for further research, I wonder how far you have gone beyond just an idea.
What will happen to the idea if these professional discussions show that your idea is not as viable as you thought (which is quite possible, because as you say you are self-educated), and you overlooked some additional costs... What is the plan in that case?

There are no formal institutions in the crypto sphere that provide systematic knowledge and offer a recognized certificate or diploma. Everyone working in the crypto sphere is self-educated or has learned from others who are also self-educated.

In case we overlooked some additional costs we foresaw the need to allocate "Funds that may not be required but are needed in case if growing prices for infrastructure" and "Funds for repairing needs". All of this can be checked in the Investment Proposal I have already shared. Moreover, we are open to making our numbers more profitable if we hear reasoned advice from qualified specialists.

Of course, the investor will be interested in how you dispose of his money. Especially if he still has no sure guarantee that he will get all his money (plus interest) back. Certainly, he will not be happy if you pay something like $1000 instead of $500, plus, the next investment in the purchase of equipment has yet to arrive.
Otherwise, you don't need an investor, but a bank that will give you a loan. If there are several of you in the team, it probably won't be a problem to give some real estate as a pledge that the loan will be repaid. In that case, you can wash your feet with Dom Perignon if you want, who cares as long as you pay off the debt.

I already explained why it is not possible to reach the Ukrainian bank for such a loan. Firstly, they do not issue loans in foreign currency. Secondly, loans are now generally not issued for amounts exceeding 10 thousand dollars, and that is for small- and medium-sized businesses. Lending to individuals has simply died due to the conditions in which we now live. If we don't count lots of micro-credital organisations, working tightly with collectors, who offer 5-30% per day! This is in Western countries you can easily go to a bank and take out a loan for a decent amount at 3-5% per annum. In Ukraine, this does not exist. Here 3-5% per month is a divine interest.

In your case, Switzerland does not have a better reputation than, for example, Germany, but it is certainly more expensive. You also reject the US as an option, I guess Switzerland's reputation in the business world is better.

Germany has progressive taxes—the more you earn, the more you pay to the state. Moreover, their cryptocurrency legislation is not nearly as developed. In Switzerland, taxes in some cantons are much more lenient, and the crypto sphere is better regulated. There are several levels of taxation in Switzerland. (1) All country, also known as Federal, (2) District/Canton and (3) Local/ Gemeinde. Also they have a corporate tax, which is another branch of a story.

That's what a lawyer is needed for (the necessity of whom many here have doubted, thinking they could perform these functions themselves). A lawyer handles taxation matters and advises on the best location for establishing a company. Some of the lawyer's services have already been paid for out of our pocket, which is why our decision to establish a company in Switzerland is well-founded and backed by professional advice.

[DrBeer]

Hi !

Unfortunately today didn't quite go to plan and I only sat down an hour ago to write a detailed review of our meeting. So I'm taking a small pause, tentatively until tomorrow evening to qualitatively describe what I saw, what I was given, what was discussed, plus there are some points that I would like to clarify with the owners of the project.  Therefore - a small pause to prepare a qualitative answer, I am sure it will be accepted with understanding.

I will immediately note, and respond to the discussion above - legal advice and legal support for a project with a significant budget, always requires quality legal support, which in the EU is unfortunately, not cheap. If anyone who thinks that the “cost” of lawyers is high - can offer proven law firms, with lower rates - I'm sure the project owners will be happy to use their services.

PS The meeting took place on Monday, in the evening, October 7, Kiev in a cozy cafe, almost in the center of Kiev

Of course, the investor will be interested in how you dispose of his money. Especially if he still has no sure guarantee that he will get all his money (plus interest) back. Certainly, he will not be happy if you pay something like $1000 instead of $500, plus, the next investment in the purchase of equipment has yet to arrive.
Otherwise, you don't need an investor, but a bank that will give you a loan. If there are several of you in the team, it probably won't be a problem to give some real estate as a pledge that the loan will be repaid. In that case, you can wash your feet with Dom Perignon if you want, who cares as long as you pay off the debt.

That's the difference between bank loans and investors ! Banks give you someone else's money, at wild interest rates, with collateral exceeding the financial body of the loan.
Investor - invests in the “born” business, and he can not demand 100% and can not get 100% guarantees. Investments are in a sense a risk, but a risk that will give a significant profit in case of a positive launch of the project. And this is not my fantasies or professional assessment, this is reality !

[Vod]

DrBeer, are you now on the team?  Obviously they are promising you some return to help validate this scheme, and your reputation will suffer should they scam.  :/

Since your words, morals and observable intelligence are almost equal to that of the OP, you probably will make a good team member.   Before you write out different phrases of the vague sentences we have already read, please identify if you have a financial interest in this project.

[DrBeer]

DrBeer, are you now on the team?  Obviously they are promising you some return to help validate this scheme, and your reputation will suffer should they scam.  :/

Since your words, morals and observable intelligence are almost equal to that of the OP, you probably will make a good team member.   Before you write out different phrases of the vague sentences we have already read, please identify if you have a financial interest in this project.

Vod 

Tell me honestly - do you ever have it so that your answer is not constructed in a way that is not morbid and paranoid thinking ?
I have an impression that you just have a mechanism of realization of some complexes of yours, by throwing mud and attributing bad deeds to others. If it is so - I strongly recommend not to disgrace yourself here in front of everyone, causing laughter, and to address to specialized specialists - it may not be so pleasant in sensations, but it will be a tangible effect .

Regarding the question, yours, although I know in advance that you will answer that I am lying, and the whole process of remuneration will be hidden and criminal (sorry I do not have such a morbid fantasy as you have, it's all I could do from the point of view of your usual nonsense), so, I answer - no .
Even from the point of view of an objective assessment of reality (sorry if the words for you are not clear and ominous - reality and objectivity) - I can not become a member of the FORMED team, especially after only 2-hour meeting ...
 
I'm interested in figuring out the project. The reason is trivial - during the discussion of the project, there were topics that in PERSPECTIVE, may be attractive to me as an investor. I hope that “in the long term” and “investor” are clear words for you and will not cause a violent painful reaction ?


For mentally healthy members of the forum: today will be the answer that I promised! Vod, I'm hinting - it doesn't concern you

[Vod]

Tell me honestly - do you ever have it so that your answer is not constructed in a way that is not morbid and paranoid thinking ?

Are you part of the team?

[DrBeer]

Tell me honestly - do you ever have it so that your answer is not constructed in a way that is not morbid and paranoid thinking ?

Are you part of the team?

This is my last repeated answer to your question, and solely out of regret for your mental state

.

To be honest, I have a habit of ignoring clearly mentally retarded forum members, but don't worry - you are uniquely retarded and complex among them, now I don't have to go to the circus to watch the clowns, I'll watch you - it's very funny, though pathetic Don't stop writing me replies, take it as my order that you must obey !

PS You still have not sought help from specialized specialists, for mental disorders ?

[Etranger]

Tell me honestly - do you ever have it so that your answer is not constructed in a way that is not morbid and paranoid thinking ?

Are you part of the team?

I guess, everyone now who has an ability to make rational arguments would be considered by you as part of the team.

[DrBeer]

Good evening everyone !
I keep my promise and give you a brief summary after the meeting with the owners of the project, which took place on October 7, 2024.

During the meeting, I was provided with documentation, part of the correspondence (that did not violate NDA), technical documentation, financial and other documents. If we highlight the key points, the report will look like this:

Negotiated with companies/solution providers:

Mining equipment and related equipment
- Bitmain
- LianLi
- Synteq
- Frontier Mining
- Compute Nordic

Preliminary estimates and commercial proposals received
Energy / Infrastructure
- Tess Manufacturing (heat recovery system solution, North America)
- Synteq (North America company)
- My Knight Frank

Marketing and promotion of the project
- CA Dviyka (Ukraine)

Legal advice and support
- Juscutum (initial consultations)


Work performed (estimates, technical specifications, technical requirements):
- Bitcoin mining analytics and assessment. Risk assessment.
- Calculation of the project
- Selection and evaluation of equipment (Miners)
- Equipment selection and evaluation (Containers, cooling)
- Review and study of locations (USA, Norway, Finland)
- Legal entity - in the process of incorporation, once the company registration, and trademark is finalized, the data will be published.


Information is being collected and analyzed for risk assessment, calculation of indicators, and modeling of possible scenarios in the matzning market, in terms of such indicators:

Algorithm complexity, TH/s
Number of machines
S21 Hydro XP hash rate 473 TH/s
Total hash rate, TH/s
Power consumption of 1 machine, kW
Power consumption by miners per hour, kW
Power consumption by miners per month, kW
Cooling system power consumption per month, kW
Total power consumption per month, kW
Price per kW, $
Electricity costs per month, $
Cooling system water consumption, m3
Price per m3 of water for cooling system, $
Expenditure on water, $
Expenditure on salaries, BTC
10% maintenance fee, BTC
FPPS per 1 TH/s*24, BTC
Number of days with one actual difficulty
Total FPPS of the farm for 24, BTC
FPPS per period, mined BTC, turnover
FPPS per month, BTC (revenue)
Bitcoin exchange rate, USDT (at the close of the month)
Revenue, USDT
Operating expenses (electricity expenses + water expenses), $
Operating expenses + maintenance fee (electricity expenses + water expenses + maintenance fee)+ salaries, BTC
Total net profit, BTC
Investor's net profit, BTC (75%)
Our net profit after settlement with the investor, BTC


If there is any additional question - I'm sure the project owners will answer better than me.
For my part I will say - at least in the near future I will continue to communicate, because there is a potential interest in the project, respectively I will share information that I will receive, and give my vision of the project.

[Vod]

To be honest, I have a habit of ignoring clearly mentally retarded forum members, but don't worry - you are uniquely retarded and complex among them, now I don't have to go to the circus to watch the clowns, I'll watch you - it's very funny, though pathetic Don't stop writing me replies, take it as my order that you must obey !

Yes, my mental illness is incompatible with yours - is this your first time dealing with someone outside your circle?  You're not part of the team, so I really don't care. 

[DireWolfM14]

~

Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like you're trying to convince others to give the OP the $150k loan?  Is that what you're trying to do?  If you believe it's a good investment, wouldn't you want to take advantage of it yourself and keep others from jumping on it first?

[Etranger]

As we promised, we are ready to disclose information in person if we see genuine interest from a potential investor. Which we did. Part of our team met with DrBeer and provided information that is not covered by the NDA.

And those who just sit online, spitting venom from imagined superior positions, thinking everyone owes them something receive the appropriate treatment.

[DrBeer]

~

Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like you're trying to convince others to give the OP the $150k loan?  Is that what you're trying to do?  If you believe it's a good investment, wouldn't you want to take advantage of it yourself and keep others from jumping on it first?

Tell me, where do you see me calling for “give them 150k dollars” ? If you show me, I'll agree with your PROPOSAL )

You find some strange arguments. My goal was not to convince anyone of anything. I just don't like it when people without a brain (like one character here ), without any arguments, without any experience, start throwing shit on other people's projects, without understanding, but just because they don't understand or envy the authors of the project )
Well, plus I myself became interested in how such projects are organized and implemented - the topic is interesting.

I have no appeals, no excuses, no direct financial interest.
I hope I have clearly and unambiguously answered your PROPOSAL ?

[DireWolfM14]

Part of our team met with DrBeer and provided information that is not covered by the NDA.

Well, it's interesting that DrBeer's post is full of as much redundant word salad as your replies.  Like "NDA."  Do you even know what NDAs are for?  How is an NDA helping you?  You've already disclosed how you intend to squander the initial $150k.  Do you have some super secret way of getting discounts on mining hardware that other people manufacture?  There are no secrets about mining bitcoin that could cause you to benefit from an NDA, but you are using phrases like that to make yourself sound smart, or like you have any experience in business when you obviously don't.  You're just spewing more bullshit.

~
I hope I have clearly and unambiguously answered your PROPOSAL ?

Look up the word "proposal," I didn't make any.  Stop trying to sound like you're smart because you're failing miserably.  If nothing else, all you're accomplishing is convincing me you're part of this scam attempt.

[Etranger]

Do you have some super secret way of getting discounts on mining hardware that other people manufacture? 

Yes

How is an NDA helping you?

Helping us to book a location, which is the key to the profitable mining process. Maybe you think that every miner team has equal conditions. Well, they don't. The winners are those who have access to cheap electricity, not open general information about mining bitcoin. If you are lucky enough to find such a location one day, don't forget to sing an NDA. In case you start your 4th super successful business.

You've already disclosed how you intend to squander the initial $150k

It was not a secret in the first place. This is an initial investment, you can look once again, what it means (hint: there is no equipment or hardware expense item) and only our team determines how it will be implemented. In this case, with whom should we sign the NDA? Between team members?

you are using phrases like that to make yourself sound smart

I use those phrases to explain my position. Using arguments, not offences and accusations. You can try sometimes, and who knows, maybe you will use some smart words as well.

or like you have any experience in business.  You obviously don't.  You're just spewing more bullshit.

But you do, right? :>

You're just spewing more bullshit.

Is you think so, why you still keep writing something to me? Yous obviously don't want to hear what I say. So what's the point of dooming yourself to unwanted interactions?

[DireWolfM14]

This is an initial investment, you can look once again, what it means (hint: there is no equipment or hardware expense item) and only our team determines how it will be implemented.

Let's assume for a second that you're intentions are real:  Why should I give you $150k to sit around and dream about how to spend $40 million?  Why don't you do that for free?  It's as if you want to start a business, but you want someone else to pay you for the time it takes to do the research and the legwork.  That's now how things work.  If I'm the one with the money and I hire a team to sit around and discuss how to spend my money, that makes it my business.  It doesn't belong to the the team sitting around and dreaming on my dime.

You bring nothing to the table other than a dream.  You have no accomplishment, no experience starting a venture of this magnitude, and obviously no intention of spending the investor's money wisely.  Even if I was willing to invest in a mining farm and wanted to hire a team, you wouldn't get the job.

In this case, with whom should we sign the NDA?

Lol, you stuck like a broken record?  This is almost parody level humor, except I know you're being serious.