Using bitcoin for transactions in country where it is illegal.

[michellee]

The outcome of the case will be you need to pay the money for that person and you can get in jail because you break the law as Bitcoin is illegal in your country. Even if transaction can be used for evidence, as Bitcoin is illegal, you can not escape yourself from the law because using something illegal.

But that depends on the country situation so we don't know for sure with that. We don't have to use Bitcoin as a means of payment if Bitcoin is illegal. That will only give us trouble because that is written in the bill.

It will be a long process to solve the case I mean if that is success, the new owner need to change the old name in the property or other things, where that need proof if two people already make a transaction.  If they use Bitcoin as a mean of payment, the officials will be suspicious that they break the law.

[shield132]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

Do you mean rent or do you mean buying/selling of the house? I don't know how it's in your country but I'll tell you how it's in mine.
Two people go together to the Public Registry, fill an agreement, get approval from the notary and in this process they agree on two payment methods, pay via cash or via bank transfer, there are no other options. I think that procedure will be similar in your country. In this case, you choose cash but behind the scenes, you pay with Bitcoin but here is the problem, you two didn't agree on Bitcoin payments, which means that you ruined the agreement and for a bonus, you made a type of transaction that's illegal in your country. You lose everything in this case, I wouldn't risk this. Probably I would buy this way from a very close friend or a relative but with strangers, you have no idea how honest they'll be.

[icalical]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

I am from Indonesia in here Bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies are allowed, but only for commodities, not for the payment method. Regarding your mentioned case where Bitcoin was used in one particular property's payment, I have never seen anything like that happened but as far as I understand that transaction itself would not be considered valid in the court. Even if the buyer can prove that the Bitcoin payment was made, since crypto is illegal to use in transactions, the court would most likely side with the property owner if they claim never to have received the payment.

It is also dangerous, because if it goes to the court, any evidence that a crypto might involve could be discharged, and the buyer will be facing penalties for breaking Indonesian regulations. In countries like Indonesia, where cryptocurrency trading is regulated but not allowed for options of payment, it is safer to stay in line with the legality of modes of transaction on large purchases, such as through a bank transfer or in cash in advance when buying property.

[Pmalek]

Although, it is NOT advisable to transact with crypto in a country where it is "illegal", the very nature of Blockchain (permissionless) allows anyone to access it at will. Laws/regulations can't be enforced on a decentralized network. Only on centralized exchanges and/or centralized wallet providers. What's stopping people from using crypto "under the radar"? Of course, expect to face fines or jail time if you're caught doing this. You'd need to decide whenever it's worth taking the risk or not.

OP should forget about big purchases like houses and expensive cars because his money comes from an illegal asset in his country. But no one can stop him from paying individuals in bitcoin and receiving goods and services in return. Also, no one can stop him from exchanging his bitcoin to fiat and using the cash however he sees fit. 

[KingsDen]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

If you live in a country where bitcoin transaction is illegal, why bother to buy a property with bitcoin? And why would the seller want to receive in bitcoin. They should simply accept fiat and use it to buy bitcoin themselves.

If bitcoin transaction is illegal in your country, paying with bitcoin means you didn't make any payment, because the transaction is not recognised by law. It's cool you avoid such payments in general.

[lionheart78]

I bet the person who was been swindled won't file a complaint because transacting in Bitcoin is illegal and the possibility of the victim going to jail is high.  It would be double trouble if the victim were found doing illegal Bitcoin transaction.
Instead of the court solving the case of the victim, the court will probably accuse the victim of money laundering due to illegal Bitcoin transactions and the culprit will probably convicted not because of swindling the person but rather because of illegal Bitcoin transactions.  So there is a huge chance that the dispute will be solved among the person involved and won't go to court.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I'm baffled as to why this topic even exists....
If it is illegal - DON'T DO IT! Period.
Why would anyone want to be waving a red flag that says "I'm breaking the law"? Sure you may get away with it for a time but sooner or later you WILL be caught and prosecuted. Then there is the issue of getting scammed or robbed - you can't go to the police about it. I see NO upside to this.

[iBaba]

Although, it is NOT advisable to transact with crypto in a country where it is "illegal", the very nature of Blockchain (permissionless) allows anyone to access it at will. Laws/regulations can't be enforced on a decentralized network. Only on centralized exchanges and/or centralized wallet providers. What's stopping people from using crypto "under the radar"? Of course, expect to face fines or jail time if you're caught doing this. You'd need to decide whenever it's worth taking the risk or not.

OP should forget about big purchases like houses and expensive cars because his money comes from an illegal asset in his country. But no one can stop him from paying individuals in bitcoin and receiving goods and services in return. Also, no one can stop him from exchanging his bitcoin to fiat and using the cash however he sees fit. 

There are several risk factors attached to using gambling for transactions in a country where it is declared illegal. Because of the nature of Bitcoin, as a decentralized system, it has made it extremely difficult for the central government or any type of government to have control over the digital financial system. So, the government may not necessarily be able to completely stop the use of the bitcoin or cryptocurrency but you are more exposed to lost of your digital assets through seizures especially if such transactions are traced to any suspicion.

For instance, if your real estate transactions run in billions of dollars and the transactions were trailed to your account, government might find its way to seize such funds and the worse of it is that you cannot reclaim the lost financial assets through any legal process since it's already flagged as an illegal currency.

[Dzwaafu11]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?

After taking the case to the law court, the government will have to decide what to do since they are the ones that have the law of that country. To me, you think the buyer will face more problems than the seller because he will definitely pay for the property if he is still interested in buying the property, and after that, you will get punished by the government for disobeying the law of that country. And he will pay for the property in fiat. Although the seller may also get punished for accepting currency that is illegal by the government, I definitely know they must be punished. 

[2Pizza410000BTC]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

If bitcoin is not legal in your country then I don't see any need to trade bitcoin from your country. In such a situation, if you want to make a transaction, you can get caught in a lawsuit if the person sues you for endangerment because Bitcoin is illegal in your country. So you can't even get sued if you transact with bitcoin from a country where bitcoin is illegal. So you will be considered fully accused in the case. By converting bitcoin to local currency through p2p to stay hassle free, you will give your local money to your property owner and here you can keep the statement so that the property owner can't put you in any danger. Bitcoin is illegal in my country I never transact anything through bitcoin from my country I convert bitcoin to local currency through p2p from my country and transact with that local currency so far I have no problems.

[yhiaali3]

I expect that the outcome of the trial will vary from country to country depending on the laws and the judge's legal view of the issue. This is a difficult legal controversy.

For me, I expect that if the country bans cryptocurrencies, proof of payment in cryptocurrency will not be accepted because first, it is not recognized and second, because he violated the law by using cryptocurrencies.

Or there may be another option that the judge will accept proof of payment in cryptocurrency but punish the buyer because he violated the law by using cryptocurrencies.

[EluguHcman]

If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

There is always a smart dangling during such transactions of where related transactions is tagged illegal.

Normally there are some kind of transactions that would require third parties (middle man) or withness to testify that transactions was rightfully made.

We know that Bitcoin is one financial system which does not require any of those Parities due to Proof of Work (PoW).

So in this case, the best option for the buyer to stand a safer side of the transaction is if the Bitcoin payment was made in a custodial wallets or exchanges that requires KYCs where our personal informations are being updated in the network system in case the proof of payment is provided there would be no denial.

Other words... If the government have to prosecute me, both me (buyer) and the seller would all be at equal victim of violating the law. So,

[Wind_FURY]

I'm baffled as to why this topic even exists....
If it is illegal - DON'T DO IT! Period.
Why would anyone want to be waving a red flag that says "I'm breaking the law"? Sure you may get away with it for a time but sooner or later you WILL be caught and prosecuted. Then there is the issue of getting scammed or robbed - you can't go to the police about it. I see NO upside to this.

Considering that, technically, Bitcoin is a censorship-resistant cryptocurrency, should we actually be "baffled" though? Although I may agree that "if it's illegal, don't do it", Bitcoin as designed may be the perfect solution to do something "illegal". The Truckers' Protest in Canada might remind you of that fact.

If a protester goes to BitcoinTalk and asks in a topic, "We are censored from using banks and payment processors, can we use Bitcoin?" - The answer would be YES.

[Hewlet]

If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

as long as you're operating in a country where Bitcoin transaction are illegal, making payment through such medium should be entirely based on trust or through a reputable exchange and even at that, you have to have it at the back of your mind that should things go north, you don't have a choice rather than letting it go because you don't have a case in a court of law.

If you've made a payment to someone that refuse to acknowledge that he received the payment, if you're taking him to court, it's purely based on the fact that you're ready to drag the two of you down because regardless of how he says it, he's going to definitely face same penalty with you cause for agreeing to accept a payment in Bitcoin in a country where Bitcoin is illegal is a total crime that will involve the punishment of both the sender and the receiver.

[OrangeII]

I'm baffled as to why this topic even exists....
If it is illegal - DON'T DO IT! Period.
Why would anyone want to be waving a red flag that says "I'm breaking the law"? Sure you may get away with it for a time but sooner or later you WILL be caught and prosecuted. Then there is the issue of getting scammed or robbed - you can't go to the police about it. I see NO upside to this.

the best is like this. when we do something illegal, then report it, maybe we will get at least 2 bad things, the first is we can get punished for using bitcoin as a transaction where it is illegal in that country, the second thing will only add to the burden we have, it's like reporting something bad to the authorities, and we ourselves do it. So, I think it would be better to make transactions using legalized transaction tools, because it can help you when something unwanted happens.

[Die_empty]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

If Bitcoin is illegal in a country, it simply means that the law does not recognise it. The court will declare that there was no financial transaction so the buyer might lose his money. The seller will also face some consequences if it is confirmed that he received Bitcoins. There is an allegation that he collected illegal money and might be investigated. If indicted for committing such a crime it can attract fines or jail term. The simple way to avoid such problems is to avoid using Bitcoin if it is illegal in your country. You might not lucky as people who have been doing it illegally. 

[Slow death]

The answer to this question will depend on how the law prohibiting bitcoin is written. But in general, in cases where the government declares bitcoin illegal, they will punish the person who used bitcoin to buy the house and they will also punish the person who accepted bitcoin as a means of payment for the house they were selling. And the government will seize the bitcoin and the house will also be seized if the person who received the bitcoins used the bitcoin. For example, if each house cost 9 bitcoins and the person did not use the 9 bitcoins, then the government will only seize the 9 bitcoins and will not seize the house.

Here we were talking about the issue of purchase-sale documents. but I want to add here that when people are getting involved in shady transactions, they don't use this method, they accept to be transferred the bitcoin and then make a document in which they are donating the house, in this case the person who paid in bitcoin appears to be just a beneficiary of the donation of the house and the government doesn't know that the house was paid for in bitcoin

[hd49728]

The answer to this question will depend on how the law prohibiting bitcoin is written. But in general, in cases where the government declares bitcoin illegal, they will punish the person who used bitcoin to buy the house and they will also punish the person who accepted bitcoin as a means of payment for the house they were selling. And the government will seize the bitcoin and the house will also be seized if the person who received the bitcoins used the bitcoin. For example, if each house cost 9 bitcoins and the person did not use the 9 bitcoins, then the government will only seize the 9 bitcoins and will not seize the house.

Your example is excellent.

Here we were talking about the issue of purchase-sale documents. but I want to add here that when people are getting involved in shady transactions, they don't use this method, they accept to be transferred the bitcoin and then make a document in which they are donating the house, in this case the person who paid in bitcoin appears to be just a beneficiary of the donation of the house and the government doesn't know that the house was paid for in bitcoin

When government marks Bitcoin is illegal as a mean for any trade, like house trade and other trades, if you and your trade partner try to invade it by using bitcoin as a mean for the trade, risk rises from here.

Everything will be smooth if the trade is done without any problem from you or your trade partner. If the trade goes bad, with one of trade participants do things like scam, another trade participant will have big trouble. If he brings this trade to police, what police will do. Arrest the scammer if possible, forces him to refund money to the victim; but what will happen with the scammer?

I believe that bitcoin of the scammer will be seized.

[GideonGono]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

For someone who has been using it and hiding it perfectly, I don't get why that person would pay up with crypto?
If crypto or Bitcoin is illegal in their country then both buyer and seller would surely face the charge.
The person who has been using Bitcoin or crypto in that country would surely knows a way to convert it into cash, so why would that person even need to pay with crypto?

[Gallar]

~Snip

I think a case like this is very unlikely to happen, especially in a country that strictly prohibits cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. Because logically, everyone in a country like that already knows that bitcoin or cryptocurrency is prohibited, so if for example there is a problem such as being cheated (using bitcoin/crypto), it is unlikely that the case will be reported to the police. Because you can be sure, if for example a case like this is brought to the police station, the problem will become even more complicated. It could be that both those who report and those who are reported are arrested, on the grounds that they have violated the rules in that country, namely carrying out transactions using bitcoin/crypto. So for sure, in my opinion, it is impossible for anyone to report such a case in a country where bitcoin/crypto is banned, even if the person was really cheated. Because as far as I know, in the realm of bitcoin or crypto, most people choose to remain silent when they are cheated. Because if for example this was announced to other people, it would definitely be very dangerous. Because it could be that after telling people about this, there are a handful of people who have evil intentions, such as robbery. Because currently people who are involved in the world of bitcoin/crypto investment are seen as truly rich people, especially by ordinary people. So if we experience a case like this, I think it would be better to keep quiet, especially if for example in a country that still prohibits bitcoin or crypto. And the conclusion from my answer to your question, it is clear that the person who reported the case and who was reported will be fined/penalized because they have violated the rules of their country's government.