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Question: should Bitcointalk Flag/Tag  Josh/Inaba/BFL as SCAMMERS ?
YES, they should have done this a long time ago!
Na! Josh/Inaba/BFL donates to much money to this site Smiley

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Author Topic: Bitcointalk CEO, Please Flag/Tag Josh/Inaba/BFL as Scammers XXXXXXX  (Read 1917 times)
LittleD
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March 31, 2014, 06:26:12 AM
 #1

what do you think bitcointalk should DO!!!  Huh



Josh will give u a Free Monorch to anyone who play His little GAME, Manipulating trust review.


Heres why i think they should be tag as scammer.
latest post for Josh:
"Dogie and Bicknellski are trolls on Bitcointalk, I figured it would be appropriate to use troll accounts for that demonstration. I included Theymos as well to prove that I have talked with him about the demonstration and that I'm not trying to hide or scam anything (not sure what I'm trying to scam here, according to Dogie, anyway). The good thing is, I don't need Dogies permission to run a contest, last I checked!
So don't worry about what Dogie says, his complaints are meaningless and the trust system will likely be removed/changed after we are done. The whole point is to show that the system can be gamed and twisted with minimal effort. Dogie begging you to remove the rating is part of whole thing... if he can convince, plead, pay, etc... you to remove the negative rating, then the system has been subverted, just like you are being convinced, pleaded with or paid to leave positive feedback. This is being done publicly to demonstrate what is possible. If this were done privately, either through a private system of communication or through a use of many shill accounts, one would never know it was possible or happening.

So the whole point is that anyone can use whatever method they choose to get YOU to do what THEY want you to do, whether it's remove feedback that helps guide others or to add feedback that deceives others.

Also - please be sure you click the "This rating is negative -- the person is not trustworthy" check box on the negative trust postings, otherwise it defaults to positive, which is also a huge problem with the system. (It should be a non-defaulted radio button)"

Last edited by BFL_Josh; 03-30-2014 at 10:25 AM.



Sad putting bounties on memebers


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html


LOL....

Hahaahaha. I relish the fact they are putting bounties on my head. Amazing eh? You can't have people just post REAL trust ratings you have to pay for them. Ethically challenged? What a joke.

When will they get their rewards? March 2014?

If anyone takes BFL up on that offer they are selling their reputation for hardware. At least they are admitting they need to PAY FOR positive ratings and discredit me and dogie for the same coin and goes directly to the fact that Inaba has been abusing the trust system since it's implementation and a good reason to BAN him and BFL from the forums entirely.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 (Inaba)
Code:
Bicknellski 14: -0 / +16(16) 2014-03-30 0.00000000 Reference Buying Trust ratings. What is wrong with that? (Delete)

Feel free to counter Inaba's attempt to trash the trust ratings by posting your own negative or positive feedback. He has already lied countless times in Trust ratings and people can verify that independently by just checking what he posts for negative feedback on the trust of various people. I suggest this is just another ploy to discredit the trust system and bring it down so that his negative ratings and BFL's negatives will disappear. Don't let him run from his past keep posting the TRUTH as you know it bitcointalk members. It looks like BFL is feeling the pain and is really working on their psyops full on now. Laughable.

Any of this look familiar in BFL's and Inaba's playbook? Anyone know exactly what sort of work he did in the past for the Army? Hmmm... funny his tactics seem to be right out of the psyops right? https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/02/24/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/


I already did bro and i gave you a good positive love Smiley



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March 31, 2014, 06:35:54 AM
 #2

A NEW low for JOSH wowowowowowowo , Josh you will go down as the worst BTCscammer in history!




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March 31, 2014, 06:50:34 AM
 #3

Yep absolutely agree. The sooner BFL becomes irrelevant the better.

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March 31, 2014, 06:53:14 AM
 #4

Bitcointalk CEO?
Admin is the correct word...

FYI: We are planning a fun, harmless "10% Attack" on the ETH/ICO Bubble Game.
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March 31, 2014, 07:05:04 AM
 #5

Yep absolutely agree. The sooner BFL becomes irrelevant the better.
People said this and said this and said this about MtGox until multitudes were blue in the face and yet, the only thing that actually made MtGox irrelevant was utter financial collapse. And at that time, somehow, thousands of people were screwed over.

Now if you take a look in Service Discussion you will see a poll thread where some 30% of respondents said they would put money back into MtGox if it were re-established.

In short, there is a hard core of marks that will always be marks.
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March 31, 2014, 10:43:48 AM
 #6

That is unethical for sure. But is it a scam? I guess people that it had impact on need to decide.

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March 31, 2014, 11:55:47 AM
 #7

Yep absolutely agree. The sooner BFL becomes irrelevant the better.

If they dont start with Scrypt asics i suppose they will lose market share.


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March 31, 2014, 04:59:10 PM
 #8

the latest from Josh

Saying that Bitcointalk is A BIG JOKE!



"I'm not, I just did the default trust people and a couple of the other more vocal hypocrites of the community.

 For the record, I don't think anyone is out to get me, nor do I think any of the staff has it in for me. I fully realize this particular bit was brought on by myself and unlike many of the trolls over there, I take responsibility for my actions. I just don't care what my rating is over there as the rating is completely meaningless. What will it prevent me from doing?

 Of course I win no matter what, the system is flawed which was my premise... what did you think, that I was going to go into an argument about something I wasn't sure of the outcome already? Are you kidding? It's not a circular argument - it's a demonstration of a flawed system. The actual results of the feedback direction are immaterial and not germane to the the argument. I have purchased ratings in a trivial manner and I have done so publicly. Default trust users are using it to voice their opinions on what they disagree with, not on any inherent trust in dealing and seeing as I've proven Default Trust is the only thing that matters, I've shown that the whole system is a joke. It's nothing but a popularity contest and if one of the Default Trust people dislikes you, you've got a permanent negative rating to most users and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it... no amount of positive trust from non-default trust users will EVER change your score."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch-3.html

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March 31, 2014, 09:55:06 PM
 #9

Leave Negative feedback for these three accounts:

Inaba: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198

BFL_Josh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=63314

BFL: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=44366

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html

and


Leave Positive feedback for these three accounts:
    
Theymos: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35
  
Dogie: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=87869
    
Bicknellski: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=76550

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March 31, 2014, 10:10:26 PM
 #10


You do realise this is exactly what BFL_Josh wants. By leaving any feedback, positive or negative it highlights that the Trust system is broken...

... which we've known for a very long time.

However I'd be very concerned about the impact this has on newbies. The "Look I'm trustworthy, look at all the positive feedback I have" stance, and whilst it does highlight the system is broken (which we all know), it also potentially is the foundation for a scam (or for other to follow the same format in the 'scope of an experiment' and then scam).

If Theymos is willing for this 'experiment' to go ahead, then it indicates that Theymos knows the system is broken. Relying on Josh's experiment result seems very....reactionist.
The perfect solution would be to replace it with something better, or at minimum remove it.

I personally thought the old system was better, but I understand that mods simply do not have the time & energy to mark every single person if needed, especially when you get ~10 pages of text.
Maybe mods who solely deal with the Scam section would be better, or maybe even an automated system where X amounts of votes are required for the system to automark scammers. The issue with that is that it allows shill accounts to target people as well...

I myself have negative feedback from a member simply because I stated they were banned from OTC and after producing the logs proving it so, left me feedback to extort me into removing my comments.
Unsurprisingly, I refused and just continue to ignore it, with a link to the thread in my feedback.

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March 31, 2014, 10:59:52 PM
 #11

What are "Default trust users" I'm not aware of this?

FYI: We are planning a fun, harmless "10% Attack" on the ETH/ICO Bubble Game.
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April 01, 2014, 06:40:00 PM
 #12

What are "Default trust users" I'm not aware of this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211858.0

I think by that he meant not necessarily people who have DefaultTrust on their Trust list, but people who are part of DefaultTrust (currently it's sirius, theymos, HostFat, Maged, OgNasty, CanaryInTheMine, John (John K.), Tomatocage, SaltySpitoon, BadBear, escrow.ms).
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April 01, 2014, 11:48:45 PM
 #13

What are "Default trust users" I'm not aware of this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211858.0

I think by that he meant not necessarily people who have DefaultTrust on their Trust list, but people who are part of DefaultTrust (currently it's sirius, theymos, HostFat, Maged, OgNasty, CanaryInTheMine, John (John K.), Tomatocage, SaltySpitoon, BadBear, escrow.ms).

Maybe you can just Make a new tag for people that abuse the trust system Huh Smiley

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April 02, 2014, 11:20:23 AM
 #14

Maybe you can just Make a new tag for people that abuse the trust system Huh Smiley

People who abuse the Trust system may receive negative feedback, no need for any tags to be given by the forum (for the same reasons why scammer tags are no longer given out).
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April 02, 2014, 08:29:31 PM
 #15


Theymos (the 'ceo'-like creature last I heard) seems to be a guy of principle.  The platform he operates is quite free and open.  The platform offers services to scammers, and extra services seem to be available with the appropriate remittance.  This is a win/win for both scammers like Josh and the operator who has done quite well.  It is up to the users to watch out for themselves.  Sadly it takes a bit of time to understand the dynamics and newbies do get burnt regularly, but that is how things are supposed to work in Libertarian-land.

The flip side is that it is damn difficult to be censored on this platform.  Censorship is not a service that Theymos seems to offer to his clients.  That is why I say, with a completely straight face, that Theymos seems to be a guy of principle.  By giving everyone a voice and letting the users make up their own minds on who is credible Bitcointalk.org is a valuable (if harsh) resource and a net benefit to the ecosystem.


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April 04, 2014, 07:21:47 PM
 #16

The same excuse was here 6 months ago on BTCTalk. They won't mark them as scammers because the trust system exists, unfortunately this is a pretty good reason.

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April 05, 2014, 08:45:03 AM
 #17

being new to the site and not fully knowing how trust works here...

Could it be setup to be similar to #Bitcoin-otc?  Or is it already?

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April 08, 2014, 07:44:18 PM
 #18

Maybe you can just Make a new tag for people that abuse the trust system Huh Smiley

People who abuse the Trust system may receive negative feedback, no need for any tags to be given by the forum (for the same reasons why scammer tags are no longer given out).

there should be a better way tho ?? Trust ratting are like gold in IRC/ebay ... we need to do something??? even tho I don't like what BFL/josh stand for ... I do agree with him on this ... Trust system is NOT the greatest here ...

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April 08, 2014, 08:20:51 PM
 #19

Maybe you can just Make a new tag for people that abuse the trust system Huh Smiley

People who abuse the Trust system may receive negative feedback, no need for any tags to be given by the forum (for the same reasons why scammer tags are no longer given out).

there should be a better way tho ?? Trust ratting are like gold in IRC/ebay ... we need to do something??? even tho I don't like what BFL/josh stand for ... I do agree with him on this ... Trust system is NOT the greatest here ...


Did you just use Ebay as an example?? You do know that system is one sided and broken far beyond this system.
ANY system thought up will be quickly exploited by those that seek "loopholes". People will game the system.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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