I am pleased you took the time to answer my questions honestly.
I am pleased you took the time to address me in the manner that you have. In all honesty, this whole ordeal has been fun for me, not because I enjoy stirring up conflict, but because I truly do believe in what I am saying and it is fun to defend it.
I suppose we can not assume that just because you are a student of higher education in one of the wealthiest and presumably educated nations in the world, that you are both worldly and educated. If you were not previously aware that there was a universal coordinated time, now you know.
I feel compelled to point out that linking "worldly" and "educated" to the application of GMT and UTC is a leap of reductionism. But yes, I am now aware that it exists.
Are you distinguishing GMT from UTC? For all practical purposes, they are the same. If the spike up to four US dollars had occurred during a rare leap second then perhaps this ambiguity could have been argued further, but the distinction between GMT and UTC is entirely irrelevant in your case.
Now I know this too. I have a feeling I will never forget after this.
Was this assumption made at the time of your vote or after you determined you may have won? If the assumption was made at the time of the vote, did you not suspect there might be ambiguity and that it would be prudent to ask for a clarification?
It was assumed at the time of the vote, and I assumed that the rules were set up such that it would be easy to discern whose vote was cast first and from what time zone each vote was cast. I also assumed that the game-maker had put enough thought into the game such that the rules in the OP were the final ones to be used throughout the entire game.
So, there should be one set of rules, but those rules should also be relative to each player? Can you cite another game with similarly good rules? In Goat's universe, you did not win, but in your universe you did win, or are you suggesting that the rules of the game should have been as robust as those codified in Einstein's general theory of relativity?
Actually, you're close. In the absence of a clarification, I chose to defunct to the rules of nature. Universal syntax (laws/rules) are distributed evenly to all players but are played out relatively. Gravity, light, the laws of thermodynamics...all of these things play out relatively. I figured nature was a good enough game upon which to base my assumptions. Actually, I try to use nature as a foundation for all of my assumptions and beliefs. Upon what...or who...do you formulate your beliefs?
And you honestly believed that every player would have been queried for his individual timezone? I think this is the first point that is shocking to most everyone here. You truly believed this at the time of your vote?
No, I believe the rules of the game were such that, at most, a 2-way tie may result because the first-guesser-wins rule would automatically nullify any 2nd-guessing of a date. So, you would only have to query 2 people. You wouldn't be able to have people in different time zones guessing the same date. Date overrides time zone. Narrows it down quite a bit.
No, I think most would agree that if the rules changed after you voted, that would be unfair.
I think they did, and I think it was.
I think we do question whether that change would have altered your vote at the time you made the vote, two weeks before the event. Had you known at the time of your vote that it would be roughly six hours in advance, would you have changed your vote (or your location)?
I would likely not have chosen to alter my vote, but that's irrelevant. If in fact I did have an opportunity to alter my vote (and apparently I did), then this is the reason why the game was statistically altered. The simple opportunity to change my vote, in addition to the rule change and the first-guesser-wins rule, prohibited me from choosing the selected winning answer. Goat guessed dec. 20th GMT. Thus, I could not change my vote to dec. 20th GMT as it would have been instantly nullified.
More importantly, we question that the rules changed at all, rather than simply being clarified several hours later.
See above. In addition, the effects of the rule change have an impact on how the first-guesser-wins rule plays out. After the rule change, it then became impossible to guess the same date according to different time zones. So, for example, whereas before it would be possible to have 2 valid guesses on dec. 19th if the time zones were different, this was no longer possible after the rule change.
While some might have assumed either UTC or Old_engineer's own local timezone, I doubt ANYONE but you assumed relative time.
Ok. Never would have thought to assume OldEngineer's timezone. That'd be like assuming US Central Time.
I agree. I believe your unique delusion conveniently seduced you after the fact.
I wouldn't call it a delusion. Delusions are distorted perceptions of reality, and, as I stated, I try to ground my beliefs and assumptions upon nature/reality. "Seduced" after the fact is interesting, but I think it's a bit unfair to say. You can't expect me to have rationed all of this out prior to guessing. I made the assumptions that I did at the time, and "after the fact" is when I realized there was a problem and chose to defend my entry.
Yes. Exactly. There are innumerable things that must be assumed in human discourse. We are also usually free to ask questions.
This reminds me of an article I read on concept extension.
The $ symbol does not denote yen, but it does denote many dollars, pesos, and other currencies used by dozens of countries around the world. Now you know.
Now I know. Thank you.
I agree that numerous relative local time zones, rather than singularly assuming US central time is very different. You caught me making an assumption about your argument. It's very interesting. Fascinating. It would never have occurred to me that one could make this assumption. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you.
You're welcome. I don't think it's that hard after all the cultural relativism they beat into you in a social work curriculum.
Yet your unusual assumptions do not trump the common assumptions of the majority nor the game creator. It's typically called 'the smell test'. And you failed.
Never heard of "the smell test." Maybe I failed it. Still, the question remains, whose assumptions are most correct? Wouldn't the most correct assumptions be deemed "correct" according to reality itself, and not mere pieces of it? Yeah yeah, I know, OldEngineer is the judge. And judge he did, albeit inaccurately.