Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 04:17:10 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: I Think I Got Screwed out of 5 BTC  (Read 6524 times)
old_engineer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 387


View Profile
December 22, 2011, 10:44:55 AM
 #141

1) if you'd specified CST or Illinois time in your original post, it would have been honored.  You didn't, and that's your fault.

2) if you'd said you wanted the guess the 20th after the time zone was clarified, it would have been honored, even though Goat had already guessed it.  You didn't, and that's your fault.  I know you said you didn't check the thread, and I don't disbelieve you, but you _did_ have a chance at winning after the rule was clarified.  You didn't follow up on the chance, though, for which I can't be blamed.  I did what was reasonable: posting the clarification, in a timely manner, in the original thread.

3) to say you think you should have won is one is one thing; to say you've been "screwed out of 5 btc" implies fraud, theft, or other intentionally dishonest behavior on my part, which is certainly not the case.  You never had 5 btc that I took from you, or received from you without providing an asset or a service.  I was under no obligation to send anyone anything: not you, not Goat, no one.  To prove that I owed you 5 btc, you'd have to show a signed contract or similar instrument.  There is no such document for this free giveaway.

4) I can sue you for libel because your statement in the title of this thread is both demonstrably false and harming my reputation.  It's a serious enough allegation that a number of mods have weighed in, and every single one of them disagree with you.  Do you understand the difference between "I think I should have won the contest!" and "He screwed me out of 5 BTC!"?  What if I later try to make my living off a bitcoin-related product?  Do you understand how this thread could materially damage my reputation?

Quote
Libel and slander are legal claims for false statements of fact about a person that are printed, broadcast, spoken or otherwise communicated to others. Libel generally refers to statements or visual depictions in written or other permanent form, while slander refers to verbal statements and gestures. The term defamation is often used to encompass both libel and slander.

In order for the person about whom a statement is made to recover for libel, the false statement must be defamatory, meaning that it actually harms the reputation of the other person, as opposed to being merely insulting or offensive.

The statement(s) alleged to be defamatory must also be a false statement of fact. That which is name-calling, hyperbole, or, however characterized, cannot be proven true or false, cannot be the subject of a libel or slander claim.

The defamatory statement must also have been made with fault. The extent of the fault depends primarily on the status of the plaintiff. Public figures, such as government officials, celebrities, well-known individuals, and people involved in specific public controversies, are required to prove actual malice, a legal term which means the defendant knew his statement was false or recklessly disregarded the truth or falsity of his statement. *In most jurisdictions, private individuals must show only that the defendant was negligent: that he failed to act with due care in the situation.*
source

However, I'm a nice guy, and I hope it doesn't come to that.  I'm willing to settle out-of-court for 2 btc.  Send them to: 1NWShYZFYVRd18ayvhZUdiW77HVqLKuRtG

I also ask that you change the thread title so that when it is indexed by google, my pseudonym does not appear.

And this might help you to identify a pattern in your conversations in this thread, and perhaps in the rest of your life, too:
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:00:06 PM
 #142

1) if you'd specified CST or Illinois time in your original post, it would have been honored.  You didn't, and that's your fault.

2) if you'd said you wanted the guess the 20th after the time zone was clarified, it would have been honored, even though Goat had already guessed it.  You didn't, and that's your fault.  I know you said you didn't check the thread, and I don't disbelieve you, but you _did_ have a chance at winning after the rule was clarified.  You didn't follow up on the chance, though, for which I can't be blamed.  I did what was reasonable: posting the clarification, in a timely manner, in the original thread.

3) to say you think you should have won is one is one thing; to say you've been "screwed out of 5 btc" implies fraud, theft, or other intentionally dishonest behavior on my part, which is certainly not the case.  You never had 5 btc that I took from you, or received from you without providing an asset or a service.  I was under no obligation to send anyone anything: not you, not Goat, no one.  To prove that I owed you 5 btc, you'd have to show a signed contract or similar instrument.  There is no such document for this free giveaway.

4) I can sue you for libel because your statement in the title of this thread is both demonstrably false and harming my reputation.  It's a serious enough allegation that a number of mods have weighed in, and every single one of them disagree with you.  Do you understand the difference between "I think I should have won the contest!" and "He screwed me out of 5 BTC!"?  What if I later try to make my living off a bitcoin-related product?  Do you understand how this thread could materially damage my reputation?

Quote
Libel and slander are legal claims for false statements of fact about a person that are printed, broadcast, spoken or otherwise communicated to others. Libel generally refers to statements or visual depictions in written or other permanent form, while slander refers to verbal statements and gestures. The term defamation is often used to encompass both libel and slander.

In order for the person about whom a statement is made to recover for libel, the false statement must be defamatory, meaning that it actually harms the reputation of the other person, as opposed to being merely insulting or offensive.

The statement(s) alleged to be defamatory must also be a false statement of fact. That which is name-calling, hyperbole, or, however characterized, cannot be proven true or false, cannot be the subject of a libel or slander claim.

The defamatory statement must also have been made with fault. The extent of the fault depends primarily on the status of the plaintiff. Public figures, such as government officials, celebrities, well-known individuals, and people involved in specific public controversies, are required to prove actual malice, a legal term which means the defendant knew his statement was false or recklessly disregarded the truth or falsity of his statement. *In most jurisdictions, private individuals must show only that the defendant was negligent: that he failed to act with due care in the situation.*
source

However, I'm a nice guy, and I hope it doesn't come to that.  I'm willing to settle out-of-court for 2 btc.  Send them to: 1NWShYZFYVRd18ayvhZUdiW77HVqLKuRtG

I also ask that you change the thread title so that when it is indexed by google, my pseudonym does not appear.

And this might help you to identify a pattern in your conversations in this thread, and perhaps in the rest of your life, too:


Do you understand the difference between "he screwed me out of 5 BTC" and "I THINK he screwed me out of 5 BTC?"  Language is important, and I've been careful to use it.

For the record, OldEngineer has sent me a private message stating his intent to sue me.  I think he has no legal leg to stand on as he (1) cannot prove my comments have been injurious as indicated by the results of the "what's fair" thread poll and as indicated by the overwhelming support he has received by others in the community and (2) that statements that I have made, especially those beginning with "I think," cannot be objectively proven nor disproved.  Actually, I think I could probably sue many who responded on the thread for libel with a more likely chance of success.

Regardless, I have offered him 2 BTC if he is willing to send those 2 BTC to the 2 gracious gentleman that donated 1 BTC apiece to me.

BurtW
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.


View Profile WWW
December 22, 2011, 03:12:00 PM
 #143

My suggestion is that you both start legal actions against each other.  My wife is an attorney and she would be willing to represent either of you. To keep it "in the family" so to speak she will work for BTC.  She will represent the first one that will send her 1000 BTC to get the process started!  Now that I think about it this is a pretty complicated case so let's make it 10,000 BTC.

In the case of a tie - both 10,000 BTC payments arrive at the same time - she will simply represent both of you!

EDIT:  Oops, forgot to mention that the time of the payment arrival would be UTC time.  Got to make that perfectly clear.

PM me for the payment address.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:13:17 PM
 #144

My suggestion is that you both start legal actions against each other.  My wife is an attorney and she would be willing to represent either of you. To keep it "in the family" so to speak she will work for BTC.  She will represent the first one that will send her 1000 BTC to get the process started!  Now that I think about it this is a pretty complicated case so let's make it 10,000 BTC.

In the case of a tie - both 10,000 BTC payments arrive at the same time - she will simply represent both of you!

Or not.

the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:40:25 PM
 #145

If the joint had any class whatsoever, he would take the now 7 btc, and send it to Goat to help the orphans. Then we could all happily say that the greater good of humankind shown through in this episode and everybody came out a winner. Especially the orphans.

What say you TJ? Big enough man to step up?

Goat,

Hello,

Please note I have no quarrel with you.  But, I would like to kindly ask you to send those 5 BTC from OldEngineer to the correct winner.

I met all the criteria for winning and placed my guess before yours.  I also placed my guess before the implementation of the "GMT" rule, so I wasn't made aware of that rule.

Please send 5 BTC to the following address  1Co4WCqEMePNLPL5Sen5VqCLLJaUFdPqH5]

Thank you.

I'm shocked to see 8 pages of this...  I realized there was some issue but I had no idea. I have been very busy and was not able to keep up.

Do you still want me to send you coins The_Joint?  I'm sure you need them more than HIV infected orphans.

What I do not understand, and this might have been cleared up is why did you wait until after the contest was over to ask for your date to be changed?   Whatever, let me know if you want the coins....

Goat,

I have stated several times I am very content with where the coins actually ended up, though discontent that they were not originally given to me.  You have a good heart.

The truth is, yes, I would like those 5 BTC back, but seeing as I have already acquired 7 BTC out of the deal (2 more than I asked for), I have agreed to give 2 BTC back to OldEnginner if he agrees to send them to the kind people that sent me 1 BTC each.

If you would like to send 5 BTC, then send them over to the Bitcoinica guy.  He sent me 5 BTC out of his own good will, and they were not the 5 BTC I think I earned.  Otherwise, keep them. 

And, obviously orphans need them more than I do.  You weren't being serious in suggesting I thought the opposite, were you?



the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:43:44 PM
 #146

Just sent 2 BTC to 1NWShYZFYVRd18ayvhZUdiW77HVqLKuRtG  (OldEngineer).

Serge
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050


View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:44:15 PM
 #147

you haven't won anything in that contest and you won't. if you're proud of your defense - it has failed (miserably)
only thing you've managed to achieve defending your position is to alienate yourself from the community for the price of few btc
jwzguy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:50:12 PM
 #148

you haven't won anything in that contest and you won't. if you're proud of your defense - it has failed (miserably)
only thing you've managed to achieve defending your position is to alienate yourself from the community for the price of few btc

He clearly has a mental disorder that makes that concept impossible to grasp.

19wXnWTeGuraN9g5UsMAi119sWzDCQcr7S
Bitcoin Logo shirts!
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:51:30 PM
 #149

you haven't won anything in that contest and you won't. if you're proud of your defense - it has failed (miserably)
only thing you've managed to achieve defending your position is to alienate yourself from the community for the price of few btc

He clearly has a mental disorder that makes that concept impossible to grasp.

Actually, I'm a counselor in an adult psychiatric unit  Grin

I might actually get intern of the year.

Add it to my 4.0, my beautiful girlfriend (who just had a photo shoot), and my great group of friends, and I'd say I'm doing quite well, thanks Smiley

Alienating myself from the bitcoin community is a tad ironic, don'tcha think?  I think we both know very well what "type" of person is most often found in the community...

the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:55:03 PM
 #150


Serge
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050


View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:56:13 PM
 #151

you haven't won anything in that contest and you won't. if you're proud of your defense - it has failed (miserably)
only thing you've managed to achieve defending your position is to alienate yourself from the community for the price of few btc

He clearly has a mental disorder that makes that concept impossible to grasp.

Actually, I'm a counselor in an adult psychiatric unit  Grin

I might actually get intern of the year.

that's what they tell you there to keep you calm  Grin
ineededausername
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784


bitcoin hundred-aire


View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:56:23 PM
 #152

....this thread has gotten way out of hand... suing over 5 bitcoins?! dude... think about what you're doing here O.o
edit: Sorry, misread things and thought the joint was suing. lol

(BFL)^2 < 0
BurtW
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.


View Profile WWW
December 22, 2011, 03:57:10 PM
 #153

For the record, OldEngineer has sent me a private message stating his intent to sue me.
Goat, I believe that since you won the game that makes you an expert at the game.  Therefore, you should start thinking about how much you wish to charge for your expert witness fees during the upcoming courtroom drama.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
ineededausername
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784


bitcoin hundred-aire


View Profile
December 22, 2011, 03:59:24 PM
 #154



 Roll Eyes

(BFL)^2 < 0
Serge
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050


View Profile
December 22, 2011, 04:01:21 PM
 #155

AND by sending 2BTC to old_engineer you admit that this thread was wrong from the start.   IMO you still owe an apology to old_engineer
BadBear
v2.0
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652



View Profile WWW
December 22, 2011, 04:02:05 PM
 #156

Hah, this is the same guy who gets "free" electricity and was even trying to sell some of the space for others to run their mining rigs.  Karma really is a bitch.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52523.0

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 04:04:56 PM
 #157

What blows my mind is that he asked for 5 coins after he already got 7... If you really need the money Joint I will help you out. If not please fuck off...

You truly haven't thoroughly read anything I said , have you?

the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 04:05:40 PM
 #158

Hah, this is the same guy who gets "free" electricity and was even trying to sell some of the space for others to run their mining rigs.  Karma really is a bitch.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52523.0

Nothing wrong with that.  Offer is still on the table.

jwzguy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868



View Profile
December 22, 2011, 04:06:28 PM
 #159

What blows my mind is that he asked for 5 coins after he already got 7... If you really need the money Joint I will help you out. If not please fuck off...

You truly haven't thoroughly read anything I said , have you?


That's an excellent idea, considering you don't read what anyone else says.
/ignore

19wXnWTeGuraN9g5UsMAi119sWzDCQcr7S
Bitcoin Logo shirts!
BadBear
v2.0
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652



View Profile WWW
December 22, 2011, 04:08:55 PM
 #160

Hah, this is the same guy who gets "free" electricity and was even trying to sell some of the space for others to run their mining rigs.  Karma really is a bitch.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52523.0

Nothing wrong with that.  Offer is still on the table.

After reading this thread, I have no problem believing that you feel entitled to "free" electricity and would sell it for your own profit/greed.

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!