Are Trump's economic policies good or bad?

[DrBeer]

you will not be able to give a single proof of their real reserves

Its an open secret because its not hard to figure out but China hides just how much gold they are buying as to do so more plainly could as much as double the price.   They have no interest in stating themselves openly, like alot of things China does its only clear by their actions later.

So in the past gold decline, China via 3rd parties would acquire many gold mines that were suffering poor funding.   The worth of that gold mine with a bullion price near a thousand is low or near zero perhaps as the mining is uneconomic to perform.   The worth of the mine with a bullion price of over 2000 moving to 3000 and eventually 4000 is great, its free money for China to acquire such a mine with this future knowledge.

They are the largest buyer, cornering the market has advantages and some negatives as they dont want anyone to front run that certain intention to place foreign reserves with gold.   The biggest whale in any commodities market is china, its true for Iron copper and certainly gold.   They often can be extremely aggressive in negotiations, I think Australia can speak to that fact but China easily dominates this region like Russia occupied most of Europe in the last century its the most obvious danger in the world imo.


Much as I hate to ever agree with Trump, if he is even slightly more aware of that ever present  danger then prior administrations he could prove himself useful.  Unopposed its possible China across the world to do much damage to the concepts of freedom or free trade.

What I fully agree with is that China is now actively colonizing third world countries, especially in Africa. And I will warn you at once - this colonization will be more terrible than that which was in previous centuries. If European colonizers recognized their “sins” and gave freedom to previously colonized countries, China will never recognize this, and will “solve the issues” by any method convenient for China.
Regarding the purchase of gold by China. China will only get “extra money”, real money, from gold if .... sell it ! And just gold itself does not give money, for example, for the economy. It is an asset for accumulation and preservation of value, but not for, for example, supporting the economy. The economy runs on money... Therefore, China's gold reserves are Schrodinger's financial code, they are either there or they are not.... or they are very little, or they are very much, and it will not be known until there is an independent audit

[STT]

Real money is gold the hard money people will tell you this and its never sold only ever exchanged.    Most people think the paper notes are real money because its so common and liquid, you pay your taxes in it and everything so its real.

The point to this economics section of the forum is to deal with the biggest questions beyond headline price tags, when nations falter and currencies fall.   The paper is crumpled under pressure, its backed by promises and the ability to tax the people of that nation which is not a certainty.

I dont expect China to submit to much of an external audit, they are self appointed gods who can command or dismiss the very existence of any person within their domain.   Its a large enough country that the amount of gold they have will be overt enough to back on demand exchange to their common currency.

   All modern countries have done gold backed currency and gold as a major foreign reserve but not in modern times; China had zero gold in 2000 hence the gigantic amount of mining they did since then, the acquisition of both physical, recycled gold and entire mining companies since then is massive.
  I'm pretty sure China is quiet to try delay any price rises to gold, in the west we sell gold almost as scrapped old rubbish so its a smart strategy to turn the west upside down and get the last drops out as much as possible.


In any case we're nowhere near to gold reserves in the Western world and China itself has horrible amounts of debt which I presume they would default on if pressed so the idea of all trust in finance switching to China is unlikely because they had no respect for basic rights which matters in a trade, contracts, etc.

USA remains the largest holder of gold but its of no consequence because the debts are increasing faster then the gold price can justify or balance.  In effect this means less gold held in proportion and the idea maybe most relevant to this thread is holding Bitcoin as a Federal asset.

   I would be surprised if BTC entered the tier 1 assets of any finance operation, mostly because they dont produce BTC & any government likes things it can control.  [eg. China is worlds largest gold miner at 10%]

[DrBeer]

Real money is gold the hard money people will tell you this and its never sold only ever exchanged.    Most people think the paper notes are real money because its so common and liquid, you pay your taxes in it and everything so its real.

The point to this economics section of the forum is to deal with the biggest questions beyond headline price tags, when nations falter and currencies fall.   The paper is crumpled under pressure, its backed by promises and the ability to tax the people of that nation which is not a certainty.

I dont expect China to submit to much of an external audit, they are self appointed gods who can command or dismiss the very existence of any person within their domain.   Its a large enough country that the amount of gold they have will be overt enough to back on demand exchange to their common currency.

   All modern countries have done gold backed currency and gold as a major foreign reserve but not in modern times; China had zero gold in 2000 hence the gigantic amount of mining they did since then, the acquisition of both physical, recycled gold and entire mining companies since then is massive.
  I'm pretty sure China is quiet to try delay any price rises to gold, in the west we sell gold almost as scrapped old rubbish so its a smart strategy to turn the west upside down and get the last drops out as much as possible.


In any case we're nowhere near to gold reserves in the Western world and China itself has horrible amounts of debt which I presume they would default on if pressed so the idea of all trust in finance switching to China is unlikely because they had no respect for basic rights which matters in a trade, contracts, etc.

USA remains the largest holder of gold but its of no consequence because the debts are increasing faster then the gold price can justify or balance.  In effect this means less gold held in proportion and the idea maybe most relevant to this thread is holding Bitcoin as a Federal asset.

   I would be surprised if BTC entered the tier 1 assets of any finance operation, mostly because they dont produce BTC & any government likes things it can control.  [eg. China is worlds largest gold miner at 10%]

The key problem is that EVERYONE claims gold reserves, but... NO ONE CAN CONFIRM THEM! Everyone is TALKING, but no one can provide guaranteed information about real gold reserves ! This applies to China, Russia, USA and others. There is no real way to know how much gold was mined in China for example, and how much EAL gold was put in the vaults. Therefore, the GOLD reserve of central banks is an ethereal value. But the availability of bitcoins on, let's call it conditionally "on state accounts" - is ABSOLUTELY verifiable quantity!

[Abiky]

The key problem is that EVERYONE claims gold reserves, but... NO ONE CAN CONFIRM THEM! Everyone is TALKING, but no one can provide guaranteed information about real gold reserves ! This applies to China, Russia, USA and others. There is no real way to know how much gold was mined in China for example, and how much EAL gold was put in the vaults. Therefore, the GOLD reserve of central banks is an ethereal value. But the availability of bitcoins on, let's call it conditionally "on state accounts" - is ABSOLUTELY verifiable quantity!

I know, right? All of a sudden, everybody is finding gold deposits. This shows us that Gold is not as scarce as we once thought it was. Besides, without a way to verify ownership, countries can falsely claim they have Gold and get away with it. That's why Bitcoin is the best choice. It has a predictable/fixed supply, it's auditable (transparent), and portable. None of which Gold has.

What I'm worried about are Trump's proposed tariffs for countries avoiding the USD. It could backfire, setting the US apart from the rest of the world. But charging tariffs for countries supporting immigration? That's another story. I think Trump will succeed in that regard. The world is uncertain, so expect the unexpected.

[pooya87]

What I'm worried about are Trump's proposed tariffs for countries avoiding the USD. It could backfire, setting the US apart from the rest of the world.

Last time, all the weird actions of Trump isolated USA more than ever. He even distanced countries that common people would call "ally" specially Europeans (US regime categorizes them as "clients"). This time It could be a lot worse because of the New World Order and specifically because he is too desperate to put on a show to create the illusion of "strength". This is why even before going into the office he is doing a lot of chest pounding and taking about annexing Panama, Canada, Greenland, ....

[ChiBitCTy]

Some are good and some aren't.  Many of the policies that he proposes that I would think half of people would find "good" he end up  backing out of, lets see if he does the same thing this time around or not. 

The one big one for me is his financial policies and his policies about how much banks must have in reserve.  I think with his loose policies in this area we could easily see another 2008.

[Mate2237]

Every government coming to power has it plans and agendas so Trump's economic plans that he has proposed for his second term in office are such plans that can really impact either positively and negatively but from my analysis Trump's economic plans is geared towards America economic growth and stability because all his agendas is pointing towards that direction

But from I have some fear concerning his plans as he plan to impose tariffs on goods coming from China and Mexico as doing so would be declaring an economic war against these two countries especially on China and this will also impact negatively on Americans too as Americans also use Chinese goods so China is likely to also increase their goods that is been exported to America so it's likely to affect Americans too and I don't fancy the idea of imposing tariffs on Chinese goods

[STT]

Whatever Trump does you know he can only serve 4 years now and then he is done.   On a macro economic level 4 years is enough for coffee and biscuits and a few discussions on various ideas, whether anything occurs in such a brief moment is always just a maybe.

Trump says buy Greenland, now obviously thats kinda bonkers.   However Im forced to say that would be a good investment if he could ever pull it off, with rising temperatures for probably a century that land mass will as uncovered as Scotland was out of the last ice age.    I would expect oil and gas is there not that USA is short of any but US demand outstrips production, its better to produce then import others production.   Trump could easily promote growth just by sating energy demand.

To me I would say anything which places technology as a 2nd also run issue is a kind of failure.  USA has the chance to be world leader on this and who cares about oil, eventually its relevance will drop back like coal did from its peak a century ago.
   Efficiency is number one to making true business advances and so that will be technology advances.  People say AI will need nuclear power as it can be situated locally, like BTC the computed product of AI itself is not limited by power line infrastructure.

  So Trump is probably wrong every time he focuses on oil and gas, its a retrospective view that wont bring USA forward but maybe people dont care, they want cheap energy now and in 4 years its somebody elses problem for the real long term.  

[Abiky]

Whatever Trump does you know he can only serve 4 years now and then he is done.   On a macro economic level 4 years is enough for coffee and biscuits and a few discussions on various ideas, whether anything occurs in such a brief moment is always just a maybe.

Trump says buy Greenland, now obviously thats kinda bonkers.   However Im forced to say that would be a good investment if he could ever pull it off, with rising temperatures for probably a century that land mass will as uncovered as Scotland was out of the last ice age.    I would expect oil and gas is there not that USA is short of any but US demand outstrips production, its better to produce then import others production.   Trump could easily promote growth just by sating energy demand.

To me I would say anything which places technology as a 2nd also run issue is a kind of failure.  USA has the chance to be world leader on this and who cares about oil, eventually its relevance will drop back like coal did from its peak a century ago.
   Efficiency is number one to making true business advances and so that will be technology advances.  People say AI will need nuclear power as it can be situated locally, like BTC the computed product of AI itself is not limited by power line infrastructure.

  So Trump is probably wrong every time he focuses on oil and gas, its a retrospective view that wont bring USA forward but maybe people dont care, they want cheap energy now and in 4 years its somebody elses problem for the real long term.  

I think Trump discovered that Greenland has natural resources. The US will become richer if it acquires it. Not to mention, Greenland's located at a strategic point. Now Trump wants to make Canada the 51st state. He even wants to take back the Panama Canal. All in his ambitions to Make America Great Again. Not bad, imo.

What really concerns me are the trade tariffs. It will make things more expensive for Americans (probably the rest of the world as well). 100% tariffs on countries avoiding the USD is insane. It could ultimately backfire. If Trump fails to put an end to wars, the global economy will only get worse in the long run. We can't predict the future, so let's hope for the best.

[ManHatOn]

Bitcoin does have a fixed supply, and in the end it will not be so predictable. Please remember there are a large, unknown number of BTC lost and destroyed from the early days when hard drives were forgotten/crashed and thrown away. Plus, a HUGE number have never moved, and could suddenly cause a severe (temporary) sell-off any time in the future.

Also, Gold does have a history of storing value much longer than Bitcoin! The recent increase in Gold discoveries is directly related to the all-time high prices, more people find it profitable to dig deeper than before. Those who are able to afford it should own both.

...no real way to know how much gold was mined in China for example, and how much EAL gold was put in the vaults. Therefore, the GOLD reserve of central banks is an ethereal value. But the availability of bitcoins on, let's call it conditionally "on state accounts" - is ABSOLUTELY verifiable quantity!

I know, right? All of a sudden, everybody is finding gold deposits. This shows us that Gold is not as scarce as we once thought it was. Besides, without a way to verify ownership, countries can falsely claim they have Gold and get away with it. That's why Bitcoin is the best choice. It has a predictable/fixed supply, it's auditable (transparent), and portable. None of which Gold has.
...

[Argoo]

Trump says buy Greenland, now obviously thats kinda bonkers.   However Im forced to say that would be a good investment if he could ever pull it off, with rising temperatures for probably a century that land mass will as uncovered as Scotland was out of the last ice age.    I would expect oil and gas is there not that USA is short of any but US demand outstrips production, its better to produce then import others production.   Trump could easily promote growth just by sating energy demand. 

Of course, there are minerals in Greenland and with the current climate change towards sharp warming, it will be easier to extract and use them, and this, of course, makes it very attractive for any state.

But this is not the only issue. Trump said that the ownership of Greenland is, first of all, a security issue for the United States. If the United States ever has to fight Russia, then missiles from Russia to the United States will fly along the shortest route through Greenland or near it. Therefore, it would be very convenient for the United States to have its own military bases with air defense there and shoot down missiles halfway.

In addition, Russia and China are now very actively interested in the Arctic, that is, the territories near the North Pole, which also hold many secrets and minerals. The United States and the NATO bloc do not want to give up these territories to their potential opponents. Therefore, the role of Greenland in this issue is sharply increasing.

[Abiky]

Bitcoin does have a fixed supply, and in the end it will not be so predictable. Please remember there are a large, unknown number of BTC lost and destroyed from the early days when hard drives were forgotten/crashed and thrown away. Plus, a HUGE number have never moved, and could suddenly cause a severe (temporary) sell-off any time in the future.

Also, Gold does have a history of storing value much longer than Bitcoin! The recent increase in Gold discoveries is directly related to the all-time high prices, more people find it profitable to dig deeper than before. Those who are able to afford it should own both.

Of course. Lost and forgotten BTC means higher market prices over the long term. Even Satoshi said it was like some sort of "donation" to the community. BTC will continue to rise regardless of what happens with the mainstream economy (that includes the USD, the EUR, etc).

Staying on topic, I'd say Trump's economic policies are starting to work out. We've seen how tariffs are forcing countries to meet with the US government's demands. Colombia backing down from denying entry to deported immigrants, is a recent example of this. Most likely, the American economy will rise during the next 4 years. Good for Bitcoin, because that means even higher market prices within the short-term. Assuming the USD doesn't get stronger. If it does, market prices for BTC will either stagnate or go lower than usual (bearish). No one knows what will happen in the future. So we can only hope for the best.

[shogun47]

Bitcoin does have a fixed supply, and in the end it will not be so predictable. Please remember there are a large, unknown number of BTC lost and destroyed from the early days when hard drives were forgotten/crashed and thrown away. Plus, a HUGE number have never moved, and could suddenly cause a severe (temporary) sell-off any time in the future.

Also, Gold does have a history of storing value much longer than Bitcoin! The recent increase in Gold discoveries is directly related to the all-time high prices, more people find it profitable to dig deeper than before. Those who are able to afford it should own both.

Of course. Lost and forgotten BTC means higher market prices over the long term. Even Satoshi said it was like some sort of "donation" to the community. BTC will continue to rise regardless of what happens with the mainstream economy (that includes the USD, the EUR, etc).

Staying on topic, I'd say Trump's economic policies are starting to work out. We've seen how tariffs are forcing countries to meet with the US government's demands. Colombia backing down from denying entry to deported immigrants, is a recent example of this. Most likely, the American economy will rise during the next 4 years. Good for Bitcoin, because that means even higher market prices within the short-term. Assuming the USD doesn't get stronger. If it does, market prices for BTC will either stagnate or go lower than usual (bearish). No one knows what will happen in the future. So we can only hope for the best.

I think Colombia isn't the yardstick here to say whether his policies work or not. The leverage he has over Colombia, which is about a little more than 1% of the US GDP, is more or less unlimited. Therefore it was no surprise that Colombia would back down after their argument about immigrants.

The yardstick will be his whole strategy about the oil industry and how he is trying to turn countries like India and Saudi Arabia against Russia. India has already announced that they will adhere to any sanctions imposed on Russian oil ships and that they won't allow any sanction ships to enter their ports. This is quite big as India became an important client for the Russian oil industry, but they want to avoid being affected by the sanctions. I think so far this has worked out and now trump wants to lower the oil price to around the break even price for Russia, which would be a huge blow to the Russian oil industry combined withe the damages they are confronted with due to Ukrainian drone attacks.

It's getting complex now and I think all of this will take a few months until it can be said whether or not these policies have achieved what Trump apparently sets out to be the objective.

[3kpk3]

The yardstick will be his whole strategy about the oil industry and how he is trying to turn countries like India and Saudi Arabia against Russia. India has already announced that they will adhere to any sanctions imposed on Russian oil ships and that they won't allow any sanction ships to enter their ports. This is quite big as India became an important client for the Russian oil industry, but they want to avoid being affected by the sanctions. I think so far this has worked out and now trump wants to lower the oil price to around the break even price for Russia, which would be a huge blow to the Russian oil industry combined withe the damages they are confronted with due to Ukrainian drone attacks.

It's getting complex now and I think all of this will take a few months until it can be said whether or not these policies have achieved what Trump apparently sets out to be the objective.

Yeah. It's way, way too early to tell whether his economic policies will have a global impact or not realistically speaking. Am actually surprised to see India siding with the USA when it comes to the oil drama.

These policies won't really have much of an impact on BTC and other crypto though as long as he continues favoring them.

[shogun47]

The yardstick will be his whole strategy about the oil industry and how he is trying to turn countries like India and Saudi Arabia against Russia. India has already announced that they will adhere to any sanctions imposed on Russian oil ships and that they won't allow any sanction ships to enter their ports. This is quite big as India became an important client for the Russian oil industry, but they want to avoid being affected by the sanctions. I think so far this has worked out and now trump wants to lower the oil price to around the break even price for Russia, which would be a huge blow to the Russian oil industry combined withe the damages they are confronted with due to Ukrainian drone attacks.

It's getting complex now and I think all of this will take a few months until it can be said whether or not these policies have achieved what Trump apparently sets out to be the objective.

Yeah. It's way, way too early to tell whether his economic policies will have a global impact or not realistically speaking. Am actually surprised to see India siding with the USA when it comes to the oil drama.

These policies won't really have much of an impact on BTC and other crypto though as long as he continues favoring them.

I think the Indians have the longer games in mind here. In the short run I think it could be beneficial for them to stick with Russia, but they know that the consequences in the long run would be devastating as Trump would not forgive them to go out of line here. If Trump makes his "Drill, baby drill!" become true and can convince the Saudis to flood the market with oil, India would like to benefit from cheap oil too at that time. But if by then they have violated sanctions and pissed off Trump, maybe they would somehow be punished for that.

I am not well enough informed to assess the details of this whole oil strategy that Trump is now initiating, but from what I have read this could mean tough times for Russia and anyone cooperating with them in the next few years.

[pooya87]

I think the Indians have the longer games in mind here. In the short run I think it could be beneficial for them to stick with Russia, but they know that the consequences in the long run would be devastating as Trump would not forgive them to go out of line here. If Trump makes his "Drill, baby drill!" become true and can convince the Saudis to flood the market with oil, India would like to benefit from cheap oil too at that time. But if by then they have violated sanctions and pissed off Trump, maybe they would somehow be punished for that.

I am not well enough informed to assess the details of this whole oil strategy that Trump is now initiating, but from what I have read this could mean tough times for Russia and anyone cooperating with them in the next few years.

The situation between US regime and India could be a lot more complicated than that because another thing Trump is planning to do is to increase domestic production in the USA while India is trying to take over the markets and become China 2.0 with its productions. They are also competing with Trump over deindustrialization of Europe (India and US both are trying to attract fleeing European capital and industries).

US regime may not want to allow another China to be created with a stronger than US economy that can compete with the super expensive US made products by simply being cheaper.

[Abiky]

I think Colombia isn't the yardstick here to say whether his policies work or not. The leverage he has over Colombia, which is about a little more than 1% of the US GDP, is more or less unlimited. Therefore it was no surprise that Colombia would back down after their argument about immigrants.

The yardstick will be his whole strategy about the oil industry and how he is trying to turn countries like India and Saudi Arabia against Russia. India has already announced that they will adhere to any sanctions imposed on Russian oil ships and that they won't allow any sanction ships to enter their ports. This is quite big as India became an important client for the Russian oil industry, but they want to avoid being affected by the sanctions. I think so far this has worked out and now trump wants to lower the oil price to around the break even price for Russia, which would be a huge blow to the Russian oil industry combined withe the damages they are confronted with due to Ukrainian drone attacks.

It's getting complex now and I think all of this will take a few months until it can be said whether or not these policies have achieved what Trump apparently sets out to be the objective.

I guess you're right. We're going to have to see what happens in the long run. Especially once Trump imposes tariffs on Canada and Mexico (two big economic forces). The strategy may have worked with Colombia, but that doesn't mean it will work on other countries.

Economists predicted Trump's tariffs will ultimately backfire, resulting in higher prices for American consumers. And things will be even worse if Trump decides to tariff China too (which is the second-largest economy in the world). I sure hope things turn out for the better, with Trump carefully moving America in the right direction. Slow and steady wins the race.

[pooya87]

Economists predicted Trump's tariffs will ultimately backfire, resulting in higher prices for American consumers.

The backfire they're predicting is about something else not the higher prices because that part is obvious since that's how tariffs work. When the government adds tariff to an imported product, that tariff is added to the price of it so it becomes more expensive for the consumer. The objective is to discourage people from buying it and the oligarchs from importing them while encouraging people to instead buy the substitute. That way they hope to help the domestic production, help create new jobs, reduce unemployment, strengthen the economy and so on...

But that only works if the domestic industries can actually manufacture stuff and compete in both quality and price. And that's a big IF.
The reason why many are saying it will backfire is because production in the US is extremely expensive and it cannot compete in both quality and price with anything manufactured elsewhere. So when they add high tariffs, it will inevitably lead to higher prices of that product whether imported or domestically manufactured therefore there will be higher inflation.

Not to mention that Trump is crazy, he is basically declaring war on the entire world. It is not just China he is threatening. He is also threatening:
- BRICS members which means more than half the world
- Any country that dedollarizes that is also more than half the world (more than BRICS)
- Canada and Mexico as you already said
- Europe if they don't buy the super expensive US oil and gas!!!
....
And remember, these countries can and will retaliate and they will impose tariffs on US products which will reduce US exports leading to shrinking economy and higher inflation!

[DaNNy001]

Sometimes tough decisions needs to be made to ensure progress, the united states has been in shackles for a long time and I'm talking based on a lot of things that has being going wrong in the country, trumps policies might seem too extreme but it's all part of what's going to take that country forward. He is certainly the right man for the job and so far I haven't really seen anything wrong in all the laws he has implemented.. it's high time to correct a lot of things that has being going wrong, he's trying to restore america back to it's former glory.

[RockBell]

Sometimes tough decisions needs to be made to ensure progress, the united states has been in shackles for a long time and I'm talking based on a lot of things that has being going wrong in the country, trumps policies might seem too extreme but it's all part of what's going to take that country forward. He is certainly the right man for the job and so far I haven't really seen anything wrong in all the laws he has implemented.. it's high time to correct a lot of things that has being going wrong, he's trying to restore america back to it's former glory.

Some of those police's might be tough me personally I love trump but sometimes been a leader people will always blame you for everything and that is why with great power comes great responsibility and trump is already use to worth ever blame people will give to him and the issue of people staying in there country illegally with expired paperwork is one thing that have been annoying trump and those are his first police's that he was amending climbing down on them.

And the issue of homosexuality was addressed by trump I love that man so much because of how bold he is and he looks unbothered when it comes to making his decision even with how people have been complaining about the police's and even citizen by birth is no longer allowed and I love most of this police's and the same time his trying to fix the economy.

The truth is that there is no way you will be a leader and you won't step on people's toes and that is what trump is facing trying to do what will be of favour to them.