El Salvador: The Most Profitable Country on Bitcoin Investment

[justdimin]

I’m curious, though, since you asked this question, are there any other groups or individuals who have also questioned the legitimacy of El Salvador’s Bitcoin ownership?

I'm sure they are. I'm also sure they're more difficult to hear or find because they are the minority and social media amplifies what the majority say. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for El Salvador going full Bitcoin. But that same spirit has to show in accountability and transparency, and it must still be, in the end, the will of the people. I'm not convinced there is any real ambition toward this.

I am not entirely sure if it's fake, but at the same time I do not see all that much reasons to fake it neither, no reason given convinced me, it all seems like just something he enjoyed and doing, that's as simple as that. But even if we were to assume that he is lying, that's good for the crypto world, we are seeing benefits of it, so him lying wouldn't be bad for us, and I do not care because of that.

I believe the best way to move forward would be just making sure we are dealing with a much better result, and for that reason I believe we need to consider his act as a good intention. I still think he did invest though, looks like there isn't a big deal at all for him, and his government. They are capable of doing this, putting 300 million into bitcoin doesn't seem like it was a huge step that was too risky for them, it was a smart move and eventually it paid out as well so they should be happy as well, he was right and the country made some money, not a ton, but it's still profit.

[freedomgo]

.... putting 300 million into bitcoin doesn't seem like it was a huge step that was too risky for them, it was a smart move and eventually it paid out as well so they should be happy as well, he was right and the country made some money, not a ton, but it's still profit.

It's still quite risky because investing in Bitcoin doesn’t guarantee a profit. Considering their country’s economic status, they’re not a wealthy nation, so every move has to be carefully planned. It turns out their investment was a good one, as the value has already doubled based on the current price.

However, what our friend here is asking for is for the president to sign a message from the wallet, which doesn’t seem likely to happen. No country would ever do that with their holdings, because the principles of Bitcoin differ from the practices of securing and verifying government funds and investments.

[Agbe]

All the advices IMF gave my country result to poorer standards of living and inflation as ever been on the rise with our present president that thinks here can work like the Western world but not tackling the issues from the root cause.

Oh my right hand man you have nailed the head again. World Bank and IMF is not for the development of the African countries but to imperialize them. All the policies (economic policies) our president is using to run this government are advises from those two institutions. If they really what African countries to develop, they would not allow those indebted countries to borrow again instead whenever they come to them they would give them loan. And the money which is supposed used to develop the country we're used to pay loan. El Salvador president ignored their advice and invested in bitcoin and today they didn't regret in investing in bitcoin. Look at Nigeria, upon the inflation and cost of living they are still disturbing the crypto community. Many countries leaders are still sleeping and under the control of the world Bank and IMF.

[dzungmobile]

Now, I’m convinced that they actually hold that Bitcoin, even without seeing any reports of signed messages - thanks to this one single tweet.

https://x.com/nayibbukele/status/1593113857261965312


As you can see in the tweet from November 17, 2022, after that, we can observe that 1 Bitcoin entered the address they claimed to own daily.

https://bitcoin.gob.sv/address/32ixEdVJWo3kmvJGMTZq5jAQVZZeuwnqzo

I don't know that they kept up their promise of purchasing 1 bitcoin per day but their bitcoin actually increases from 2022 to 2024.
https://nayibtracker.com/

Nov 18, 2022: 756 BTC
Mar 14, 2024: 3048 BTC

I make a quick calculation, not too exact, bitcoin difference is 2292 and total days is about 1 year and a half, so total days is about (365*1.5) 547 days. So with this calculation they bought about 4 BTC per day.

Code:

. di 2292/547
4.190128

They actually kept up their buying promise and even did it more seriously.

[bettercrypto]

If only one country at this time will be open to the bitcoin opportunity, it will be a good step for them for the future because every government is capable of buying more than 1 bitcoin, if they only do it according to the budget that their government has, the result of their bitcoin holding in the future will be good.

And we have tried this and witnessed it for more than 1 decade in this field of crypto space. At least they hope to make it their second choice of investment and besides,
the price of bitcoin does not decrease every 4 years.

[Ziskinberg]

I don't know that they kept up their promise of purchasing 1 bitcoin per day but their bitcoin actually increases from 2022 to 2024.
https://nayibtracker.com/

Nov 18, 2022: 756 BTC
Mar 14, 2024: 3048 BTC

I make a quick calculation, not too exact, bitcoin difference is 2292 and total days is about 1 year and a half, so total days is about (365*1.5) 547 days. So with this calculation they bought about 4 BTC per day.

Code:

. di 2292/547
4.190128

They actually kept up their buying promise and even did it more seriously.

Their announcement was made in 2022, but they actually started buying in 2021. You can see the Bitcoin adoption milestones here.

https://blog.bitfinex.com/education/important-el-salvador-btc-adoption-milestones/

September 6th, 2021 – President Bukele announces El Salvador’s first purchase of 200 Bitcoin, the day before the Bitcoin law went into effect. Bukele later purchased more Bitcoin bringing the total holdings to 550 BTC.

[Iranus]

The President of El Salvador is considering Bitcoin as one of the means for the economic development of his country and he is also getting success in it. He is holding Bitcoin regularly and is moving forward with the determination to continue in stages.

El Salvador's GDP in 2023 is $34 billion, while their bitcoin investment is currently worth only $600 million. Do you think their economy is improved by bitcoin? Also, it is reported that they are looking to borrow $1,3 billion from the IMF and if bitcoin really helps them improve and develop their economy, why do they need to borrow money from the IMF?

El Salvador has already found another 3 trillion dollars worth of gold unmined, which is going to be important for their economy.

They found it years ago but the 2017 ban on metal mining by former president Salvador Sanchez Cere prevented them from exploiting it. Nayib Bukele is planning to overturn this ban to start gold mining to boost the national economy but he is facing fierce opposition at home so I don't think he can succeed.

https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/precious-metals/article-832820

The qualities of a country's leadership can lead to progress in every sector, the best example of which is Nayib Bukele, who has legalized Bitcoin through legal tender and is trying to integrate Bitcoin with the conventional financial system.

It must be admitted that Nayib Bukele is a talented president as he was able to restore El Salvador's economy. But that success is due to his economic policy, it has nothing to do with bitcoin because they have not sold their bitcoin yet and used it to serve the country.

[Jewan420]

With the current bull run, one country has benefited significantly - El Salvador. They started accumulating Bitcoin well before this bull run, and as recently reported, they’ve already gained more than 100% on their investment.
Just imagine what that kind of profit could do to improve their country. I think other nations, especially developing ones, should start considering following El Salvador’s lead when it comes to Bitcoin investment. It could improve their economies, it should be a game- changer.

El Salvador can be a shining example of how a country can develop by investing in Bitcoin. Many countries in the world still do not believe in Bitcoin or do not trust it. These countries should follow countries like El Salvador or Bhutan and take advantage of Bitcoin. El Salvador is setting an example of how to increase the country's reserves by investing in Bitcoin on a state-by-state basis, and Bhutan is setting an example of how to make more profit by using the country's excess resources.

They are teaching how to transform a country into a developing country by using the resources of their own country. I am not asking anyone to follow, but by using our own strength, we can definitely enter Bitcoin and this step may be the most beneficial for a country.

[freedomgo]

It must be admitted that Nayib Bukele is a talented president as he was able to restore El Salvador's economy. But that success is due to his economic policy, it has nothing to do with bitcoin because they have not sold their bitcoin yet and used it to serve the country.

There isn’t much in the news about Bitcoin directly helping their economy improve. In fact, the latest reports say they’re considering borrowing $1.3 billion from the IMF. However, the IMF wants them to modify their law so it’s no longer mandatory for businesses to accept Bitcoin.

That could have a significant impact on their economy. While they introduced Bitcoin as legal tender and heavily promoted the Chivo Wallet, it seems only a few people continued using it after claiming the signup bonus.

[dzungmobile]

Their announcement was made in 2022, but they actually started buying in 2021. You can see the Bitcoin adoption milestones here.

https://blog.bitfinex.com/education/important-el-salvador-btc-adoption-milestones/

September 6th, 2021 – President Bukele announces El Salvador’s first purchase of 200 Bitcoin, the day before the Bitcoin law went into effect. Bukele later purchased more Bitcoin bringing the total holdings to 550 BTC.

I knew it.

El Salvador began with DCA like Micro Strategy and they did it like randomly buying bitcoin for DCA. Later, after that announcement they bought bitcoin daily, we don't know at least it is their plan for DCA daily.

My math above shows that they possibly did not strickly follow that plan, buying 1 BTC a day and I believe they have days without buying bitcoin and other days with buying more than 1 bitcoin.

[danadc]

Yes, it is the only country that accepts Bitcoin as if it were a local Currency , right ? If so, it has to be successful, and when bitcoin grows in Price , Bukele can offer more benefits to everyone, so this only goes to a general economic Sense does make a Difference It's just that these Central American countries Don't have much PIB and this sets them back a lot. It's not a Country rich in hydrocarbons or oil or Anything like that , but they Defend themselves with btc , it's Enough to be the Number 1 country in wealth in the Future.

[tuaris]

What's all this about a loan deal with the IMF and the roll back of pro-bitcoin policies?  Did the IMF finally get to them?

[tottong]

With the current bull run, one country has benefited significantly - El Salvador. They started accumulating Bitcoin well before this bull run, and as recently reported, they’ve already gained more than 100% on their investment.

Just imagine what that kind of profit could do to improve their country. I think other nations, especially developing ones, should start considering following El Salvador’s lead when it comes to Bitcoin investment. It could improve their economies, it should be a game- changer.

It should be so but not all countries have the same conviction as El Salvador and there may be many considerations that force them not to get involved like El Salvador.
The huge gains that El Salvador has made and this shows how great they are at designing their country's financial system in a way that is different and perhaps not many countries would dare to do.
The idea is clear and why Nayib Bukele is so optimistic that this will work and this is starting to be proven after they can smile widely seeing the profits they have made.

Apart from individuals, groups and countries, Bitcoin should be able to provide a positive impact on financial value and this should be a benchmark that can be implemented by other countries after the success of El Salvador.

[john_egbert]

What's all this about a loan deal with the IMF and the roll back of pro-bitcoin policies?  Did the IMF finally get to them?

They didn't leave them at all during all their time struggling 
Saw the news that you mentioned, I do think it's important to discuss it.

[Sonia_123]

El Salvador makes Bitcoin payments voluntary in $1.4B IMF loan deal.

El Salvador’s struck a loan deal with the IMF and will make Bitcoin acceptance voluntary and roll back government involvement in Bitcoin-related projects.
IMF also said taxes will be paid in US dollars — the country’s official currency — and government involvement in the state-backed crypto wallet Chivo “will be gradually unwound.”
El Salvador began buying Bitcoin in 2021 with the country’s National Bitcoin Office’s tracker showing it currently holds 5,968.8 Bitcoin, worth about $602 million.
How sure are we that involving the country with IMF will not be a major set back for El Salvador and their stand on Bitcoin.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/el-salvador-bitcoin-payment-voluntary-imf-loan-deal

[Taskford]

Imagine they start to accumulate in this price way back September 2021.

El Salvador became the first country to purchase bitcoin as a treasury asset in September 2021, when a single coin cost around $52,000. On Thursday BTC prices were north of $72,000, though in the past 24 hours the asset has traded above $73,000 and as low as $68,000.

Source https://finance.yahoo.com/news/el-salvador-thousands-more-bitcoins-004326888.html

Now they gaining a lot and we can really see that they are the most profitable country right now who gain a lot from Bitcoin. There's huge potential for them to earn more from Bitcoin especially that I believe this price up trend has not end there. More price pump to come in future especially that adaption for this coin still growing.

[hd49728]

Imagine they start to accumulate in this price way back September 2021.
snip
Now they gaining a lot and we can really see that they are the most profitable country right now who gain a lot from Bitcoin. There's huge potential for them to earn more from Bitcoin especially that I believe this price up trend has not end there. More price pump to come in future especially that adaption for this coin still growing.

Their President is smart and he saw promising future of Bitcoin several years ago, in the last market cycle or even before that. He was elected as El Salvador President and he took action to make Bitcoin Legal Tender in El Salvador. Not stop here, he invested his national capital to Bitcoin, and about 4 years later, Bitcoin proves that his decision is smart and make massive profit for his country reserve.

Nayib and El Salvador don't want to stop now, and they're like Micro Strategy, are continuing with DCA because they saw that the party is only started at national level.

[tvbcof]

El Salvador makes Bitcoin payments voluntary in $1.4B IMF loan deal.

El Salvador’s struck a loan deal with the IMF and will make Bitcoin acceptance voluntary and roll back government involvement in Bitcoin-related projects.
IMF also said taxes will be paid in US dollars — the country’s official currency — and government involvement in the state-backed crypto wallet Chivo “will be gradually unwound.”
El Salvador began buying Bitcoin in 2021 with the country’s National Bitcoin Office’s tracker showing it currently holds 5,968.8 Bitcoin, worth about $602 million.
How sure are we that involving the country with IMF will not be a major set back for El Salvador and their stand on Bitcoin.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/el-salvador-bitcoin-payment-voluntary-imf-loan-deal

There is something akin to a cult-of-personality going on with Bukele these days (which seems to me to mildly embarrass the guy) and the cope is strong among this contingent groupies.  This on 'X'...when it is working at least.

My understanding of what 'legal tender' means in a technical sense is that if a debt is owed and if 'legal tender' is offered and rejected, a court will extinguish the debt.  On the current U.S. fiat bills, it states "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE"  If BTC is 'legal tender', and it is not applicable for paying ones' taxes, then one (or more) of the following must be the case:

 - taxes are not debts.
 - one can get out of tax claims against them by offering BTC.
 - BTC is 'legal tender' for NOT all debts (it's always been ambiguous to me as to whether a given tax is paid to a public or private entity in reality regardless of the 'consensus view'.)

One way or another, it is really pretty interesting that El Salvadorans paying taxes in USD was such an important thing to the IMF (or the owners of the IMF whoever they are.)

As far as I can tell, rejection of a transaction in the first place (before a debt in incurred) is fine whether or not fiat currency is involved is not an issue.  I am free to fix your tractor in exchange for a dozen eggs, for instance, but refuse to do so for $100 bill.  This speaks to the 'voluntary' issue, and it never was common for a vendor to agree to be paid in BTC in El Salvador no matter what the law said or didn't say.

As for 'Chivo wallet', it is in the running for the 'Tacoma Narrows Bridge' of software and systems design and implementation.  I've been ripped off by the Chivo system more than once (never used the wallet) and reconciliation is beyond absurd so I rather doubt that a high percentage of people get their money back when they do get nicked.  No loss if that shit-ware goes the way of the water-buffalo.  Also, I being one of the minority who has been saying for a decade that BTC is ridiculous as an 'exchange currency', I'm happy to see it go.  The various professional engineering efforts geared around use of sidechains (or L2 or whatever it is called these days) are actually quite impressive to me and work quite well although there is still a lot of distance to go to make it so consumers don't take the hit when there is a system failure.  Auto-refunds would help a lot and should not be difficult to implement.

One of the main lines of groupie cope is that Bukele is just going to borrow from the IMF(+) and buy more BTC Saylor-style.  I guess the nimrods think that the international Banksters are as juvenile and simplistic as they are.  I find it more likely that the intel agencies showed Bukele some unseen footage of the last minutes of Gaddafi, the autopsy reports of tissue damage to his hind end, and reminded the guy that Gaddafi also had some bright ideas about weakening the USD which did not end up well for himself of the Libyan people.

[uchegod-21]

It was also not a smooth journey for El Salvador. When they started, they bought at the wrong time, somewhere the peak of 2021 bull run. Many people criticised them but today they are on profits overall.

Come to think of this, is it not possible that a country acquires BTC just like El Salvador but not announce it to the world. A government of a particular country might be buying bitcoin in secrete, who knows 

[Abiky]

El Salvador makes Bitcoin payments voluntary in $1.4B IMF loan deal.

El Salvador’s struck a loan deal with the IMF and will make Bitcoin acceptance voluntary and roll back government involvement in Bitcoin-related projects.
IMF also said taxes will be paid in US dollars — the country’s official currency — and government involvement in the state-backed crypto wallet Chivo “will be gradually unwound.”
El Salvador began buying Bitcoin in 2021 with the country’s National Bitcoin Office’s tracker showing it currently holds 5,968.8 Bitcoin, worth about $602 million.
How sure are we that involving the country with IMF will not be a major set back for El Salvador and their stand on Bitcoin.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/el-salvador-bitcoin-payment-voluntary-imf-loan-deal

I guess El Salvador needed the money (USD). It seems like Bitcoin wasn't enough to help the country get out of debt. This deal with the IMF is one step backwards to what Bukele originally envisioned when he first made BTC legal tender. By turning down the "Chivo" wallet, adoption for Bitcoin in the country will diminish.

Perhaps, it's too early for the world to become "hyperbitcoinized". Fiat currencies are still relevant, despite many countries adding BTC to their portfolio. One would hope things will change within the not-so-distant future. We're living in uncertain times, so expect the unexpected.