Removal of BestChange ANN from local sections

[LoyceV]

What do you mean by patrollers? Are these human positions, or are they bots which have an API to read and report newbie posts (like Mitchell's spambot)? And when did they start getting used?

Mods are attached to a certain board, patrollers aren't. But as far as I know, every Mod is also patroller. So a Mod can moderate anyone on "their own" board, but only Newbies anywhere else. And there are a few patrollers who aren't Mods. I don't think there is an API, just patrol.

[Wiwo]

When your thread was removed for poor quality translation, you went back to the same agency that make the translation for you and they did fucking analysis

The bold part point us to where the problem is, agency did an analysis, did they tell you they changed anything or work on the translation to make it meet the standard acceptable here in the forum?

No right! So now you want to force your way through?

[Don Pedro Dinero]

When your thread was removed for poor quality translation, you went back to the same agency that make the translation for you and they did fucking analysis

The bold part point us to where the problem is, agency did an analysis, did they tell you they changed anything or work on the translation to make it meet the standard acceptable here in the forum?

No right! So now you want to force your way through?

Have you read what the thread is about? I'll answer you: no. We are talking about the fact that Best Change has 16 translations of its service thread made and just 5 of them were deleted. Moreover, they can be deleted not just because they were supposedly translated by an automatic translator but:

... because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

Otherwise it would not be understandable that the Croatian translation, which is well done, has been deleted.

In short, such translations can be deleted if they are done by an seemingly by an automatic translator or if they are ‘noise’, or not, because for example the one in the Spanish section was not deleted and I would bet that it was not the only one that was reported and not deleted.

So the deletion depends on a subjective criterion more like a lottery whereby 5 translations have been deleted and 11 remain. The company's poor translation in some cases is not crucial here.

[Rikafip]

I also think that the local board threads were removed only due to poor translation and nothing else. I also suggest Best Change to hire someone reputable who could rewrite those threads once again but in human tone not by using any AI or machine translation tools.

If you bothered to read the whole thread instead just the last post that you replied to, you would see that on at least one local board thread was deleted even though translation was good (confirmed by 2 native speakers of that board), meaning there's more factors to it.

So the deletion depends on a subjective criterion more like a lottery

Afaik, that's how post deletion always worked around here.  

[Xal0lex]

But as far as I know, every Mod is also patroller.

You are wrong, simple moderators do not have patrol powers. Patrol powers are given by theymos at his discretion, but initially simple moderators do not have such powers.

[Mitchell]

As far as I know, patrollers can only act on posts written by Newbies, so we can discard that theory.

Correct, as a patroller I can only deal with newbies.

What do you mean by patrollers? Are these human positions, or are they bots which have an API to read and report newbie posts (like Mitchell's spambot)? And when did they start getting used?

This has been a position for as long as I've been on the forum. Think I got it somewhere in 2015 (whilst being a Moderator for the Dutch section) and kept it when I stopped being its moderator. I would look it up, but don't feel like going through that many DM pages.

Patrollers deal with newbies, my bot used to run on my own account, but that isn't very secure, so I made a new one and it got the same patroller rights I have.

But as far as I know, every Mod is also patroller.

You are wrong, simple moderators do not have patrol powers. Patrol powers are given by theymos at his discretion, but initially simple moderators do not have such powers.

Correct. I had to ask for it.

I don't think there is an API, just patrol.

Correct. All my bot does is scrape, parse, act.

[alani123]

Ideally, these boards should have a moderator speaking the local language.
I've offered to volunteer since the Greek board is ultra low traffic.

But it seems there's not much interest. Which I kind of understand also. If s board is low traffic having its own moderator becomes an administrative burden. On the other hand the Bitcoin community should do its best to remain open to all kinds of people.

I don't know in the end. It lies with Theymos' decisions. But if a community can't have traffic and had lost its moderator bringing another one won't necessarily bring traffic also. So it's understandable.

[SamReomo]

If you bothered to read the whole thread instead just the last post that you replied to, you would see that on at least one local board thread was deleted even though translation was good (confirmed by 2 native speakers of that board), meaning there's more factors to it.

Well, only one translation was verified by 2 native speakers who confirmed that it was written in a well manner but still rest of the local boards translation might be deleted only because they were not written by native speakers or the agency who translated the announcement thread might have used machine translation. The exact reason behind deleting of those local board threads is still unknown.

[Perfectbaby]

Snip

Correct, as a patroller I can only deal with newbies.

Hello sir Mitchell!
Please I can't remember saying the above statement you quoted me there. I wouldn't have responded to this but I know how strict is forum about whatever they do. Please I would like you to re-edit your post and quote the right person for future purposes.

Sorry to draw back your attention and I mean no insults. At least I am with my clear eyes 👀.

[Mitchell]

Hello sir Mitchell!
Please I can't remember saying the above statement you quoted me there. I wouldn't have responded to this but I know how strict is forum about whatever they do. Please I would like you to re-edit your post and quote the right person for future purposes.

Sorry to draw back your attention and I mean no insults. At least I am with my clear eyes 👀.

Whoops, you are correct. I somehow missed up my quotes. Has been updated!

[examplens]

If you bothered to read the whole thread instead just the last post that you replied to, you would see that on at least one local board thread was deleted even though translation was good (confirmed by 2 native speakers of that board), meaning there's more factors to it.

Well, only one translation was verified by 2 native speakers who confirmed that it was written in a well manner but still rest of the local boards translation might be deleted only because they were not written by native speakers or the agency who translated the announcement thread might have used machine translation. The exact reason behind deleting of those local board threads is still unknown.

I also agree here, this translation from the Croatian board seems satisfactory.
And when that thread appeared, I thought that it was better to be opened by BestChange than by some local user, due to possible later updates.

[SmartGold01]

Can you give us an idea what the issue is with all the above-mentioned threads?

There are some line which your translated content might have gone against the rules or we say they are badly translated. But I believe only local mods can have such action to delete post as they are only person who can decide whether a post is bad or not when following the forum ethics.

]Whoops, you are correct. I somehow missed up my quotes. Has been updated!

This has happened to me as well, but most times when with mobile and it's too tiny to quote the right person. So for that I reduced my interest of quoting while on mobile.

[Josefjix]

If the agency you hired used shitty machine translation on Dutch, chances are they did the same for other languages.

I said the same thing earlier, it was an obvious redflag from the Dutch assessment. Same agency can't produce different results. Little penalty they ( bestchange) has to pay for not trusting anyone from the forum to do the job.

If the one in Dutch was translated by the same agency and reported as bad, there's a significant possibility that the others are also bad.

[JollyGood]

The OP has not posted since creating this thread, maybe they are working behind the scenes using PMs to get a better understanding of what happened in relation to the deleted threads. Even though reasons have been alluded to what happened, nothing was explained and maybe this is an opportunity to have a debate about whether a moderator should always advise a member why their threads were removed at the time they took action.

[Best_Change]

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive. I'm not inclined to restore them.

Thank you for taking the time to comment on this, theymos. Things are clear now. We will continue posting in the threads that are still there as we humbly hope that they can help users learn about our service better and use it to the utmost benefit.

Can anyone suggest forums in the languages that were deleted? Perhaps we can go there. Specifically, local forums on crypto, business, finance, and earning online. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

[Plaguedeath]

Can anyone suggest forums in the languages that were deleted? Perhaps we can go there. Specifically, local forums on crypto, business, finance, and earning online. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

altcoinstalks.com, cryptotalk.org

[SmartGold01]

Can anyone suggest forums in the languages that were deleted? Perhaps we can go there. Specifically, local forums on crypto, business, finance, and earning online. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

altcoinstalks.com, cryptotalk.org

I think bestchange already active on the Altcointalk.com forum. you can track them over there.
Sorry here is the link

[JollyGood]

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive.

I missed this post and no matter how informative it is there is room for improvement. Others can express their own opinion but rather than assuming matters were one way or another, would it not be far more conducive if a moderator had to complete a note for the OP of any thread that was being removed? Had that happened this thread might not have been created as the matter would have been clarified.

I'm not inclined to restore them.

Whether we agree or disagree with the comment, this is the most important post in the thread as it clarifies the threads will not be restored. I suppose the OP can decide if they want to create new threads with better translations and try again.

[SamReomo]

I suppose the OP can decide if they want to create new threads with better translations and try again.

Yes, I believe that's going to be the best step by the OP, and I would like to add that instead of hiring translators from outside of the forum, OP might consider hiring reputed members of the particular local boards and pay them to write the announcement threads.

[dkbit98]

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive. I'm not inclined to restore them.

It's not like we didn't ask you for assigning new local moderator for Croatian local board several times
Activity can always be better and we lost some og members, but there are local boards with less activity and they have local mod.
I don't think this issue with bestchange would happen in our board, but I invite them to post it again.
We already confirmed it was not a poor translation in our board.