Has DeepSeek burst the US tech bubble?

[Free Market Capitalist]

I don't know if you've heard by now, but today's dip is mainly because DeepSeek, a Chinese artificial intelligence company has developed an open-source artificial intelligence model that some say works better than ChatGPT and other US AIs, and more importantly, does it for a fraction of the cost. This comes shortly after the US announced a $500B investment in AI.

The tech bubble has been behind the success of Nvidia, the world's most profitable company until MicroStrategy came into play. These companies, many of which have AI projects, have caused a huge demand for hardware that with the success of DeepSeek is now in doubt as to whether it will continue to be needed.

As a result, Nvidia is currently down 17% in today's session, and the Nasdaq is down 3.32%. As you may have noticed it has affected the markets in general and also bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which are also trading down today.

Here is an article on the subject: Why Is DeepSeek Sinking Nvidia Stock?

What do you think about it?

[Oshosondy]

I don't know if you've heard by now, but today's dip is mainly because DeepSeek, a Chinese artificial intelligence company has developed an open-source artificial intelligence model that some say works better than ChatGPT and other US AIs, and more importantly, does it for a fraction of the cost.

According to the news I read, it was stated that you can get the app for free.

As a result, Nvidia is currently down 17% in today's session, and the Nasdaq is down 3.32%. As you may have noticed it has affected the markets in general and also bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which are also trading down today.

As for bitcoin, it is just an opportunity for people to buy more coins. You know that all these are for a short time. The market will correct itself and ATH will occur.

Non of my business with Nvidia. My business is with bitcoin.

[goldkingcoiner]

I think that China was already leading in the field of AI long before this happened. If anything that was the initial reason for why the US wanted to invest 500 billion dollars into new tech. I don't see China making yet another step forward as "shocking".

[mindrust]

nVidia was already overbought imo. It just needed a reason to crash and deepseek happened to be that reason. There will be other competitors too imo. If nVidia can do it, it is a matter of time before the other chip manufacturers also figure out how. It looks like China will keep being a pain in the ass to the western economies.

Is there even anything China can’t manufacture?

I bet they already can do everything spaceX is doing but they don’t let us know about it.

[Wexnident]

~

Great really. I mean, I can finally do my own shit with AI together with some of my other apps without being asked to pay a bunch of bucks so I'm pretty glad about it personally. Though I don't think it has much to do with Bitcoin I reckon? I mean we were up above 106k ish for a few days, I reckon it was bound to go down at some point just to show it's regular movement. 

I don't know if you've heard by now, but today's dip is mainly because DeepSeek, a Chinese artificial intelligence company has developed an open-source artificial intelligence model that some say works better than ChatGPT and other US AIs, and more importantly, does it for a fraction of the cost.

According to the news I read, it was stated that you can get the app for free.

It is free. And you can even set it up on your own afaik. I'll try it in a couple of days when I'm free.

Is there even anything China can’t manufacture?

To be fair, it's mostly a battle between the Chinese in the American IT industry and the Chinese in the Chinese IT industry (/s) .

[Zwei]

What do you think about it?

it was just a matter of time for the AI bubble to start popping.

big tech are in panic mode right now becasue of deepseek, imagine spending billions of dollars to create something like chatgpt, just for a side open source project from china that costed less than $10 million to blow you out of the water.
just so people understand how big this is, you can run the full 671B parameter deepseek r1 model on a few apple mac minis https://x.com/alexocheema/status/1881561143736664180

good luck doing that with closed AI gpt-o1

[Ziskinberg]

That’s the competition right there. The US won’t let China get ahead, especially in terms of technology, because they’re both heavily invested in it. In fact, when it comes to quantum computing, China has reportedly invested even more than the US. The race is intense, and neither side wants to fall behind.

https://itif.org/publications/2024/09/09/how-innovative-is-china-in-quantum/

China claims over $15 billion in public quantum funding, far outpacing the United States. While U.S. private funding is higher, China offsets its private sector shortfall with massive public investment.

[Lida93]

This isn't strange as it's one of many series in the economical tussle between the West and the Asian giant China. I think China saw a head-shot and took it when the USA never imagined it. Reality is that if China was in this shoes the US would have done same thing to increase their economic influence too to boost their tech market.

Another thing which I had to read from the article for which am not surprised, is about how cost-effective (cheaper) this open-source artificial intelligence model is, a phenomenon that underscores China's cheap labour character.

It's quite saddened that the implications of this move have to also affect bitcoin but that notwithstanding it's still another good opportunity for buy because bitcoin will retrace and find it way up again in no time.

[Free Market Capitalist]

nVidia was already overbought imo. It just needed a reason to crash and deepseek happened to be that reason. There will be other competitors too imo. If nVidia can do it, it is a matter of time before the other chip manufacturers also figure out how. It looks like China will keep being a pain in the ass to the western economies.

On the one hand, it is reminiscent of what happened when the .com bubble burst in the 2000s, when companies that were leading at the time were replaced by others (Altavista by Google would be an example). Anyway, I have tried the app and for me it has a clear disadvantage: you can't talk to it by mobile, you have to type in the requests. I've also seen people saying it's better than the other AIs, but others saying it's a piece of shit. In the little I've tried it, I've found it to be more the latter. Another thing I've seen is that by saying they got the AI for a fraction of the cost they underestimate the real costs.

I guess we will have to wait a while to draw firm conclusions.

[LoyceV]

it was just a matter of time for the AI bubble to start popping.

Agreed. Even better if it would be heavily restricted. I don't want to see machine text, fake images and fake videos. I haven't seen many useful applications yet.

for a side open source project from china that costed less than $10 million to blow you out of the water.

They're already speculating China may have used much more expensive hardware than they're admitting now. It doesn't matter for me, I'm not using them, and I don't like it if they use anything created by me to present it as their own. For plagiarism alone chatbots should be banned.

If this AI hype continues, I expect "Skynet" to be the least of our problems. Hollywood writers were already on strike a while back, translators are complaining about machine competition, but I wouldn't be surprised if actors are next. It's more and more difficult to distinguish machine generated pictures and videos from real things without carefully looking for it. In 10 years, all movies could be created entirely by CGI. I'll keep my copies of old movies.

[Free Market Capitalist]

I haven't seen many useful applications yet.

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean the AI wasn't present. Haven't you been to the doctor in the last few years?

Artificial Intelligence: How is It Changing Medical Sciences and Its Future?

Artificially intelligent computer systems are used extensively in medical sciences. Common applications include diagnosing patients, end-to-end drug discovery and development, improving communication between physician and patient, transcribing medical documents, such as prescriptions, and remotely treating patients. While computer systems often execute tasks more efficiently than humans, more recently, state-of-the-art computer algorithms have achieved accuracies which are at par with human experts in the field of medical sciences. Some speculate that it is only a matter of time before humans are completely replaced in certain roles within the medical sciences.

The source is very reliable.

[virasog]

As a result, Nvidia is currently down 17% in today's session, and the Nasdaq is down 3.32%. As you may have noticed it has affected the markets in general and also bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which are also trading down today.

Here is an article on the subject: Why Is DeepSeek Sinking Nvidia Stock?

What do you think about it?

So this is relevant to AI and based on this news the Nvidia stock dumps was expected but i do not understand why bitcoin tanks on this news ? Deepseek is no threat to bitcoin and ideally bitcoin should not have dump too much on this news. It seems like bitcoin just need any excuse to dump 

However i do see that there is some manipulation by the whales and crypto exchanges too in this dump as they know where people stops are and they artificially creates selling pressure making stops hit.

[UmerIdrees]

Agreed. Even better if it would be heavily restricted. I don't want to see machine text, fake images and fake videos. I haven't seen many useful applications yet.

AI is not ony about fake images and videos as presented mostly on social media. I do not know exactly where AI is being used but my son uses the ChatGPT 3.5 (free version) to solve complex math problems. Sometimes he does not how to solve a math query, he paste the whole question to the chatgpt and AI not only tells the correct answer but also show all the steps done to get to the answer. In short, he doesn't need a tutor to solve math.
This is just a very small usefulness of AI, it wil be just life chaging when deployed in Industries and business and DeepSeek made it cheap accesible to everyone.

[LoyceV]

Artificial Intelligence: How is It Changing Medical Sciences and Its Future?

I've read about this (a couple of years ago): some block-box AI that created better diagnoses on specific conditions than the doctors, and they didn't know why.

to solve complex math problems.

Wolfram Alpha has been doing that for decades.

[avikz]

It's too early to say if Deepseek is able to break the dominance of US in the tech market or not. I have started using this chatbot since last 1 day after the news broke out and I find it amazing. This chatbot is not only giving you the answers but also showing the logic it is using being it's answer. It is really a game changer to be honest. But it not something super exclusive that other AI companies won't be able to implement.

So let's not speculate if Deepseek is able to burst a very deep foundation of tech companies in US. It can be shaken a bit. Also NVIDIA shared went upto an unreasonable level. It's good to see the correction.

[Porfirii]

nVidia was overbought, as mindrust said, but it could've remained that way still for a long time if nobody changed the game.

I haven't tried DeepSeek but I read this morning and now again in this thread that it is open source, isn't it? So it is not that bad, after all? I sometimes feel the same worries as LoyceV, not because of the technology itself, but because of the nature of the humans who govern (or not) it.

[DrBeer]

I don't know if you've heard by now, but today's dip is mainly because DeepSeek, a Chinese artificial intelligence company has developed an open-source artificial intelligence model that some say works better than ChatGPT and other US AIs, and more importantly, does it for a fraction of the cost. This comes shortly after the US announced a $500B investment in AI.

The tech bubble has been behind the success of Nvidia, the world's most profitable company until MicroStrategy came into play. These companies, many of which have AI projects, have caused a huge demand for hardware that with the success of DeepSeek is now in doubt as to whether it will continue to be needed.

As a result, Nvidia is currently down 17% in today's session, and the Nasdaq is down 3.32%. As you may have noticed it has affected the markets in general and also bitcoin and cryptocurrencies which are also trading down today.

Here is an article on the subject: Why Is DeepSeek Sinking Nvidia Stock?

What do you think about it?

I have a very cautious attitude towards Chinese solutions “unparalleled in the world”. As practice has shown, it is almost always either an exaggeration or a purposeful manipulation. No, I do not completely exclude the possibility that the DeepSeek model is not bad, but....
1. There are NO confirmed and proven indicators of its efficiency and low consumption of computational resources
2. The system works with data only up to October 2023, but it has not been trained beyond that.
3. The system does not work with online data
4. In working with it (I personally tested it), I did not notice any pronounced advantages in speed, or for example from practice - in writing better code ChatGPT or the same Phind.
5. The timing of the publication of the “super news” is strangely coincidental with Trump's statements about large investments in AI in the US.

In short, we are still watching how the system will develop and what will be known about it, as well as what is actually “under the hood”.

[Free Market Capitalist]

I've read about this (a couple of years ago): some block-box AI that created better diagnoses on specific conditions than the doctors, and they didn't know why.
...
Wolfram Alpha has been doing that for decades.

I find it quite shocking that a guy as obviously intelligent as you are so reluctant to embrace this new technology. Artificial intelligence is already being used in several areas and improving productivity a lot, even if you don't see apps you can download from Google Play or Apple Store as useful. For me it is your emotional mind that is working there making you reluctant to accept it.

AI is a disruption as was the internet itself in its day or cell phones or bitcoin. It is not a question of whether it will be useful or not, it is being used massively today in many fields and medicine is just one of them. I can understand that you don't want a forum full of AIs and not humans (just wait until you see the AI agents in full operation, and see if you can distinguish them from humans) but that vision you have of AI is quite reminiscent of the one scribes had when the printing press was invented.

People destroyed printing presses out of fear. What will we do to AI?

Just like with AI, people worried about job security and the spread of disinformation. Machines were destroyed and book merchants were chased out of town.

[Findingnemo]

Deepseek is the hot topic all around the world right now, I just tried and doesn't see much difference as an average user but many tech enthusiasts claims that this is ground breaking innovation and going to change the dynamics of AI evolution.

What I saw is 10Mn project caused the trillion dollar market to collapse that's something.

Also it exposes that we don't need heavy funding to bring something, it can be possible with most efficient application of what we have.

Finally ChatGPT lost to another AI model Deepseek even before taking the jobs of actual developers.

[LoyceV]

I find it quite shocking that a guy as obviously intelligent as you are so reluctant to embrace this new technology.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I see more and more human interaction being replaced by machines, and I don't think that's a good thing. Personal contact is replaced by messages on a screen, paying in shops is replaced by doing it yourself on a machine, working from home through machines, getting cash from machines, the list goes on and on.

Artificial intelligence is already being used in several areas and improving productivity a lot

That's an interesting one: what's the point of increasing productivity if it only makes a few people much richer? I'm thinking of this graph:

(source) (there are newer versions of this graph, but the ones I found don't work through the forum's image proxy)

I know one thing: that's not making your country any better! It leads to "the working poor", while some people get richer than anyone has ever been before. So if productivity keeps going up but more and more people have a hard time in affording the basics like housing and even groceries, something's not right. And I don't think AI is going to make that any better.

For me it is your emotional mind that is working there making you reluctant to accept it.

I'm not willing to accept our machine overlords

just wait until you see the AI agents in full operation

I can't wait to have Metalhead patrol the streets!

I tried the website:

www.deepseek.com

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The irony
After this, it wants my email address and I have to accept their terms, so I closed it.