Africa - promised land of Bitcoin?

[BADecker]

Africa is coming out of the dark ages in some areas. Let's start them off right. Bitcoin rather than fiat.

"in some areas" That is somewhat more believable.  Could you list some of these places?  I am genuinely curious, and also a bit sceptical.  It seems like a lot of people genuinely think that Africa as a whole is someday (soon!) going to be something other than.... Africa.

Introducing Bitcoins to the people of Central African Republic, and to Mozambique people, would start to take the funding away from the militaries that are trying to enslave the people.

[hello_good_sir]

Introducing Bitcoins to the people of Central African Republic, and to Mozambique people, would start to take the funding away from the militaries that are trying to enslave the people.

So you have nothing more than wishful thinking?  Yeah, it would be great if these places started using bitcoin.  That doesn't mean that they will.

[Sithara007]

Introducing Bitcoins to the people of Central African Republic, and to Mozambique people, would start to take the funding away from the militaries that are trying to enslave the people.

First you should check whether the people living in those nations can afford a Bitcoin storage device (such as PCs, Smartphones.etc).

[bryant.coleman]

Check this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553693

Some nice progress made in Africa!!

[LostDutchman]

I find it interesting and very telling that those in the First World countries are so quick to discount those in the Third.

I hope that my brothers and sisters in Africa will keep a close watch on my posts as I suspect we may have a great future together.

Although the wolf is my totem animal I wish to become possessed of the Spirit of The Lion as well.

My $.02.

[twiifm]

Big adoption in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos wouldn't surprise me.

They use a non-fiat currency already, the $US for most of their transactions. By non-fiat I mean it is not fiat to that country.

So they could move over to any currency, including BTC.

I also noticed travelling through these countries how well connected they are. Wifi is everywhere and it is free. So someone with a cheap smart phone can get free access fast enough to send/receive transactions from their phone.

I was in  Vietnam recently.   Maybe street merchants use USD  bills but not the established shops that accept credit cards

[bryant.coleman]

First you should check whether the people living in those nations can afford a Bitcoin storage device (such as PCs, Smartphones.etc).

99% of them can't afford a smartphone. But it will not prevent them from using BTC services for sending / receiving remittances.

[LostDutchman]

First you should check whether the people living in those nations can afford a Bitcoin storage device (such as PCs, Smartphones.etc).

99% of them can't afford a smartphone. But it will not prevent them from using BTC services for sending / receiving remittances.

Exactly and just one of the ways in which Bitcoin can be brought to Africa.

Do not deny the continent.

Africa is The Mother and Father of Humankind.

My $.02.

[Sithara007]

99% of them can't afford a smartphone. But it will not prevent them from using BTC services for sending / receiving remittances.

How successful is the new BTC remittance service?

[bryant.coleman]

How successful is the new BTC remittance service?

Right now, it is quite popular among the Kenyans because of the low fees. Soon it'll get more popular across the whole continent.

[LostDutchman]

How successful is the new BTC remittance service?

Right now, it is quite popular among the Kenyans because of the low fees. Soon it'll get more popular across the whole continent.

And those of us smart enough to relaise that Africa is an untapped resource from which both Africans and those with whom Africans affiliate can profit will never know want.

Bitcoin can bring true change to Africa.

My $.02.

[sraosha]

Africa?  No.  Africa doesn't have a good track record at adopting advances in technology or culture.

I counter that. I live in Africa (Tanzania) and everybody is using M-Pesa here, which is in many regards more close to Bitcoin, in how you use it, than you might think. Check it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa

It is used widely in Kenia as well and if M-Pesa would be a bank (it isn't though), it would be the biggest in Kenia.

So, in my opinion Africans are quite inventive - e.g. when it comes to recycling waste into new things - and most now also have smart phones in the big cities.
If they will adapt a new technology is not entirely predictable of course, same as in other countries. Who would have anticipated Cyprus for instance.

[sraosha]

Times are changing.

Oh they are, are they?  So they stopped hacking each others limbs off with machetes¹, raping infants², killing and eating short people³, and commiting genocide against white farmers⁴?

Oh I get it.... April 1st.  Ha ha you got me.

1: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533828/Mutilated-machete-tragic-orphans-Africas-forgotten-war-A-truly-harrowing-dispatch-worlds-new-Heart-Darkness.html
2: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/africa-child-rape-crisis_n_3103558.html
3: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2933524.stm
4: http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

Why these racist statements? Can you pls change over to the respective Ku Klux Klan reddit!

All those cruelties you mention have been committed by Western (white) people to huge extents the past 200 years. Burning witches, genocides (e.g. read the history of the Kongo, the Maomao rebellion, war against native Americans, Australian Aborignes, etc.).
The links you quote: Would you think the Daily Mail and the BBC might have an interest to portrait Africans as savages during this second wave of (re)colonization that Africa is currently experienceing?

Dude, think first and travel a bit more. This helps to get rid of some serious prejudices.

[Sithara007]

I counter that. I live in Africa (Tanzania) and everybody is using M-Pesa here, which is in many regards more close to Bitcoin, in how you use it, than you might think.

Wow... I thought that M-Pesa was limited to Kenya. This is really good news!

[Bitram]

Well, bitcoin only leaves in internet and Africa and internet connection...

[hello_good_sir]

Sraosha, it is nice to hear from someone who actually lives in Africa.  Many Westerners have a very romanticized view of Africa, so hopefully you can give us some good information.

Why these racist statements? Can you pls change over to the respective Ku Klux Klan reddit!

All those cruelties you mention have been committed by Western (white) people to huge extents the past 200 years. Burning witches, genocides (e.g. read the history of the Kongo, the Maomao rebellion, war against native Americans, Australian Aborignes, etc.).
The links you quote: Would you think the Daily Mail and the BBC might have an interest to portrait Africans as savages during this second wave of (re)colonization that Africa is currently experienceing?

Dude, think first and travel a bit more. This helps to get rid of some serious prejudices.

Is the truth racist?  These are things that are happening now or that have happened recently in Africa.  I realize that Africa is a huge continent filled with a wide variety of people in a wide variety of situations.  However, taken as a whole, Africa is undeniably dysfunctional.

There haven't been any Western witch burnings in the last 200 years.  Cannibalism?  While there have been isolated incidents of cannibalism (mostly by criminally insane people) there has never been a time in Western history where one group of people hunted down and ate another group in order to gain magical powers.

Westerners have committed genocide but it was almost always against non-Western people, which means that Westerners do not have to worry about being subject to it, and thus are not subject to the societal disruption that it brings.  This brings me to another point: how come Africa is always the one being invaded?  How come they don't get into ships and invade South America?  It is because they can't.

Furthermore, this discussion has been going on for a couple of days now.  Only now does an African (you) chime in.  How come this discussion hasn't been dominated by Africans from the beginning?  The answer to my question is that there are very few Africans on this forum.  Are they all on an African bitcoin forum instead?  Or are there just not that many Africans into bitcoin?

I'm just asking people to work with the facts that we have instead of fantasizing.  Hopefully you can bring us more information.

It is interesting that you point out that I do not know much about Africa (which is true, I don't know much about Africa) but you didn't point out the extreme ignorance of the people who think that bitcoin will do well in Africa.  They are living in a fantasy world, and it is their fantasies that are harmful to Africans.

Think about it for a moment.  Who is more likely to attempt to colonize Africa?  Someone like me who doesn't think much of Africa, or someone like LostDutchman who says things like "Do not deny the continent.  Africa is The Mother and Father of Humankind."  To people like him Africa is an opportunity, something to fantasize about, something to reshape (destroy) when it doesn't meet expectations.  As the saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Think of Liberia.  Because of optimism Americans invaded and send freed slaves to colonize the place.  The freed slaves then enslaved the locals.

[LostDutchman]

Sraosha, it is nice to hear from someone who actually lives in Africa.  Many Westerners have a very romanticized view of Africa, so hopefully you can give us some good information.

Why these racist statements? Can you pls change over to the respective Ku Klux Klan reddit!

All those cruelties you mention have been committed by Western (white) people to huge extents the past 200 years. Burning witches, genocides (e.g. read the history of the Kongo, the Maomao rebellion, war against native Americans, Australian Aborignes, etc.).
The links you quote: Would you think the Daily Mail and the BBC might have an interest to portrait Africans as savages during this second wave of (re)colonization that Africa is currently experienceing?

Dude, think first and travel a bit more. This helps to get rid of some serious prejudices.

Is the truth racist?  These are things that are happening now or that have happened recently in Africa.  I realize that Africa is a huge continent filled with a wide variety of people in a wide variety of situations.  However, taken as a whole, Africa is undeniably dysfunctional.

There haven't been any Western witch burnings in the last 200 years.  Cannibalism?  While there have been isolated incidents of cannibalism (mostly by criminally insane people) there has never been a time in Western history where one group of people hunted down and ate another group in order to gain magical powers.

Westerners have committed genocide but it was almost always against non-Western people, which means that Westerners do not have to worry about being subject to it, and thus are not subject to the societal disruption that it brings.  This brings me to another point: how come Africa is always the one being invaded?  How come they don't get into ships and invade South America?  It is because they can't.

Furthermore, this discussion has been going on for a couple of days now.  Only now does an African (you) chime in.  How come this discussion hasn't been dominated by Africans from the beginning?  The answer to my question is that there are very few Africans on this forum.  Are they all on an African bitcoin forum instead?  Or are there just not that many Africans into bitcoin?

I'm just asking people to work with the facts that we have instead of fantasizing.  Hopefully you can bring us more information.

It is interesting that you point out that I do not know much about Africa (which is true, I don't know much about Africa) but you didn't point out the extreme ignorance of the people who think that bitcoin will do well in Africa.  They are living in a fantasy world, and it is their fantasies that are harmful to Africans.

Think about it for a moment.  Who is more likely to attempt to colonize Africa?  Someone like me who doesn't think much of Africa, or someone like LostDutchman who says things like "Do not deny the continent.  Africa is The Mother and Father of Humankind."  To people like him Africa is an opportunity, something to fantasize about, something to reshape (destroy) when it doesn't meet expectations.  As the saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Think of Liberia.  Because of optimism Americans invaded and send freed slaves to colonize the place.  The freed slaves then enslaved the locals.

"Think about it for a moment.  Who is more likely to attempt to colonize Africa?  Someone like me who doesn't think much of Africa, or someone like LostDutchman who says things like "Do not deny the continent.  Africa is The Mother and Father of Humankind."  To people like him Africa is an opportunity, something to fantasize about, something to reshape (destroy) when it doesn't meet expectations.  As the saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"."

Stuff and nonsense!

Stop trying to think FOR me; you don't do a very good job of it. 

In a sense, Africa is being thrust kicking and screaming into the 21st Century, at least some parts of the huge continent.  There is a Helluva lot more to Africa than jungle, desert and the bush.

Over one billion people live in Africa and you are essentially discounting them and that is just fine with me.

Afica does not need people who think like you.

Your attitude reeks of colonialism and imperialism, both of which have been tried in Africa and didn't work out so well.

I suggest and seek cooperation, not the re-imposition of failed policies.

My $.02.

[amoai]

Africa?  No.  Africa doesn't have a good track record at adopting advances in technology or culture.

Peru and other South American countries?  I think that it is quite possible, but I think that a dose of pessimism is warranted.

There are three technologically and socially advanced countries that have high levels of inflation.  They are: The US, the UK, and Japan.  So these are the three countries where I expect Bitcoin to flourish.

I agree, although I would love to be the one who brings Bitcoin to Africa, I think it is far more likely to take off in Central America. I traveled to Guatemala and noticed that even the mountain coffee farmers knew how to use phones and purcahse reloads - culturally, central america is better than most places in Africa.

In terms of economics, it can help both areas, many central american countries and african countries have horrible inflation rates. If you consider north africa the past few years after the Arab spring, most people lost their valued assets. Even egypt has something along the lines of ~11-15% real inflation.

[kalus]

First you should check whether the people living in those nations can afford a Bitcoin storage device (such as PCs, Smartphones.etc).

99% of them can't afford a smartphone. But it will not prevent them from using BTC services for sending / receiving remittances.

yes. 

also, the smartphones we throw away now are likely being recycled in developing countries.  Mozilla has s $25usd smartphone in the works.

don't look at smartphones now:  look at what will happen to smartphones in the emerging markets 1-5 years from now. 

[Brangdon]

I thought my statement was pretty clear, but to clarify - the people of africa benefits if they adapt bitcoin as a currency, but bitcoin benefits very little from adaption in africa, for the simple fact they just dont matter in the big picture of the world economy. Not to be mean, just stating the obvious.

There would be benefits in PR. It would make for better media stories than the Silk Road did. Also, it would create a market for Bitcoin-related services and a proving-ground for Bitcoin-related technologies.

USA, China, and EU is what matters to bitcoins.

Those are the countries that need Bitcoin least, where it is likely to be least important, because they already have a good financial infrastructure.