I feel played by the Bitcoin ecosphere.

[WhyFhy]

I've had a weird relationship with Bitcoin lately.
I think about community developments on things such as LN , Vanity search projects, tools, tickers scrapers ECT.....
How they where developed by altruistic members for the chance of creativity, freedom and decentralized banking.

Bitcoin is now a store of value ,a commodity of fiat held by institutional parties.

Major altruistic contributors , sidelined. Some got tips. Most got nothing. 

If fees stay at 1 Satoshi , will LN/Layer 2 really be necessary?  What happens when we are all mined up, no one sells and only holds, and the mining fees don't cover the electric bill. Bitcoins showing signs of fatigue and stagnation overall. Will it die ,I don't think so, but Bitcoin doesn't appear to be designed for and by cypherpunks.
If it was , wall street weaponized it.

I've dedicated a lot of my life to this particular branch of cryptography, I've learned a lot! But it kinda feels like it was for nothing at this point. I've publicly released all my crypto projects source codes and walking away from developing in this sector.

I'll still be around speculating but that's about it.

[tinus42]

Maybe you need to step away for a while. Or read up some more.

[Cryptohygenic]

I've dedicated a lot of my life to this particular branch of cryptography, I've learned a lot! But it kinda feels like it was for nothing at this point. I've publicly released all my crypto projects source codes and walking away from developing in this sector.

I'll still be around speculating but that's about it.

Can for now say you should be courageous to defeat any affliction but don't get yourself forced in to keep riding on the cryptography space. Locate what works better for you and hope you don't turn a critic out of your unimpressed experiences.
The rewards of miners has become belittled due to miners scalability so, the intrinsic means single miners can make good earnings from mining rewards as the pool becomes competitive is you merging your hashing power to others so at time of rewards, your earning points of rewards would be increase.
Left alone not being affiliating with others, you will earn very minimal such as the situations you are in that  reward values can't even pay your bills.
In cordial response, there is no playing as cheat about it. The system changes is basically due to higher numbers of miners now.

[Reynaldo]

I understand your frustration with how Bitcoin has evolved. But  a lot of manipulation happens in traditional markets too, but that doesn't make it any less disappointing to see the crypto space follow similar patterns. So keep investing and don't leave when stocks go down. ngmitif you do that.

[Ucy]

That's basically how it's in exceptional community-run tech . First of all a revolutionary tech movement is started by a community of idealists who are not too keen on making too much money off it. They contribute ideas and resources to build a system that's free/affordable and fair. But it eventually gets hijacked and the hijackers replace them with betrayers, their own workers, praise singers, deviants, who get incentivized  to deviate from original goal and support the hijackers.
But Bitcoin is not going to be so. They want it so badly, but will need to pass through layers of security (which is partly a program or principles that have been strongly cemented in the consciousness of the community) to hijack it. Ofcourse they will try to starve the hardened ones off money and resources to break them in pieces and get them to surrender. But this was anticipate and the Bitcoin market was made to take care of such people, otherwise its price would've been stagnant or behaving like fiat currency.

[Reynaldo]

Yeah... i mean institutions grabbed their bags, but that was inevitable for anything valuable. The real ones are still building in the shadows while normies chase pumps. Maybe your contributions didn't make you rich, but they helped build something that can't be stopped

[mrkfdr]

I've had a weird relationship with Bitcoin lately.
I think about community developments on things such as LN , Vanity search projects, tools, tickers scrapers ECT.....
How they where developed by altruistic members for the chance of creativity, freedom and decentralized banking.

Bitcoin is now a store of value ,a commodity of fiat held by institutional parties.

Major altruistic contributors , sidelined. Some got tips. Most got nothing. 

If fees stay at 1 Satoshi , will LN/Layer 2 really be necessary?  What happens when we are all mined up, no one sells and only holds, and the mining fees don't cover the electric bill. Bitcoins showing signs of fatigue and stagnation overall. Will it die ,I don't think so, but Bitcoin doesn't appear to be designed for and by cypherpunks.
If it was , wall street weaponized it.

I've dedicated a lot of my life to this particular branch of cryptography, I've learned a lot! But it kinda feels like it was for nothing at this point. I've publicly released all my crypto projects source codes and walking away from developing in this sector.

I'll still be around speculating but that's about it.

 
Humanity uses gold as store of value and medium of exchange since  ~700 BCE until ~1950 when the credit system emerged.

Lets say i don't trust banks and i keep my savings 1kg of gold ( equals ~102KUSD). in gold in a good safe.Get my salary in gold ~ 100gr ( ~ 10K USD) every month, either i keep it in 100gr or melt it to the 1kg.
I do see myself buying a car or a house using the gold in a direct transaction.
I don't see myself walking around the city with 100gr Gold in my pocket and buying coffe, pay for parking or buying a dinner.
 
This is where the 2nd tier / Layer 2 kicks in, convert part of the gold to LN (2nd tier / Layer 2) and use it, this is a much faster and cheaper transaction.
If i have lot of money in the LN, i can convert it back to gold and keep it in the safe.  

Same with bitcoin. BTC

The use of the Bitcoin hardware wallet -> convert to Lightning , Liquid or other 2nd tier for fast payments and back to Bitcoin is still complicated understand, use and implement to the average non tech user.

Layer 2 is a MUST, and we have to find more user friendly solutions. users will pay for a good solution.

make sense ?  








  

[Mastercon]

I've had a weird relationship with Bitcoin lately.
I think about community developments on things such as LN , Vanity search projects, tools, tickers scrapers ECT.....
How they where developed by altruistic members for the chance of creativity, freedom and decentralized banking.

Bitcoin is now a store of value ,a commodity of fiat held by institutional parties.

Major altruistic contributors , sidelined. Some got tips. Most got nothing.  

If fees stay at 1 Satoshi , will LN/Layer 2 really be necessary?  What happens when we are all mined up, no one sells and only holds, and the mining fees don't cover the electric bill. Bitcoins showing signs of fatigue and stagnation overall. Will it die ,I don't think so, but Bitcoin doesn't appear to be designed for and by cypherpunks.
If it was , wall street weaponized it.

I've dedicated a lot of my life to this particular branch of cryptography, I've learned a lot! But it kinda feels like it was for nothing at this point. I've publicly released all my crypto projects source codes and walking away from developing in this sector.

I'll still be around speculating but that's about it.

 
Humanity uses gold as store of value and medium of exchange since  ~700 BCE until ~1950 when the credit system emerged.

Lets say i don't trust banks and i keep my savings 1kg of gold ( equals ~102KUSD). in gold in a good safe.Get my salary in gold ~ 100gr ( ~ 10K USD) every month, either i keep it in 100gr or melt it to the 1kg.
I do see myself buying a car or a house using the gold in a direct transaction.
I don't see myself walking around the city with 100gr Gold in my pocket and buying coffe, pay for parking or buying a dinner.
 
This is where the 2nd tier / Layer 2 kicks in, convert part of the gold to LN (2nd tier / Layer 2) and use it, this is a much faster and cheaper transaction.
If i have lot of money in the LN, i can convert it back to gold and keep it in the safe.  

Same with bitcoin. BTC

The use of the Bitcoin hardware wallet -> convert to Lightning , Liquid or other 2nd tier for fast payments and back to Bitcoin is still complicated understand, use and implement to the average non tech user.

Layer 2 is a MUST, and we have to find more user friendly solutions. users will pay for a good solution.

make sense ?  






  

Depends on your smarts ceiling. There's actually a lot to discuss about bitcoin if you really dig deep into it, like bips and other github related things but not everyone is smart enough to understand how all that works and the code etc including me.

Thinking of trying to improve the Bitcoin ecosystem in various ways. I was wondering whether there is any good ideas for new layer-2 solutions to build for it? Or perhaps a better Bitcoin payment app or something. Essentially you need a project idea related to Bitcoin. I think it’ll help you understand Bitcoin better while trying to improve the ecosystem.

Bitcoin is extremely divisible so even if its relative value rises that is not an issue.

If you're concerned about transaction speed, bitcoin's L2 lightning network already solves this. Lightning is the only bitcoin L2 that exists right now, its all conceptual so far. If you ask me holding self custody on L1 without running a node. I am not okay holding on L2 self custody without my node online. Because you can hack me over easily on L1.

Your node is layer 1, your node is securing layer 2, your node cares. The speed/fees framing to me is basically devs fixating on layer 2 benefit over layer 1. But really need to see layer 2 products that are better than all other forms of payment.

Satoshi said that lost bitcoin is a gift to everyone else so its definitely not a good idea to take away the gifts the rest of us got.

"Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone." - SN

[mrkfdr]

I've had a weird relationship with Bitcoin lately.
I think about community developments on things such as LN , Vanity search projects, tools, tickers scrapers ECT.....
How they where developed by altruistic members for the chance of creativity, freedom and decentralized banking.

Bitcoin is now a store of value ,a commodity of fiat held by institutional parties.

Major altruistic contributors , sidelined. Some got tips. Most got nothing.  

If fees stay at 1 Satoshi , will LN/Layer 2 really be necessary?  What happens when we are all mined up, no one sells and only holds, and the mining fees don't cover the electric bill. Bitcoins showing signs of fatigue and stagnation overall. Will it die ,I don't think so, but Bitcoin doesn't appear to be designed for and by cypherpunks.
If it was , wall street weaponized it.

I've dedicated a lot of my life to this particular branch of cryptography, I've learned a lot! But it kinda feels like it was for nothing at this point. I've publicly released all my crypto projects source codes and walking away from developing in this sector.

I'll still be around speculating but that's about it.

 
Humanity uses gold as store of value and medium of exchange since  ~700 BCE until ~1950 when the credit system emerged.

Lets say i don't trust banks and i keep my savings 1kg of gold ( equals ~102KUSD). in gold in a good safe.Get my salary in gold ~ 100gr ( ~ 10K USD) every month, either i keep it in 100gr or melt it to the 1kg.
I do see myself buying a car or a house using the gold in a direct transaction.
I don't see myself walking around the city with 100gr Gold in my pocket and buying coffe, pay for parking or buying a dinner.
 
This is where the 2nd tier / Layer 2 kicks in, convert part of the gold to LN (2nd tier / Layer 2) and use it, this is a much faster and cheaper transaction.
If i have lot of money in the LN, i can convert it back to gold and keep it in the safe.  

Same with bitcoin. BTC

The use of the Bitcoin hardware wallet -> convert to Lightning , Liquid or other 2nd tier for fast payments and back to Bitcoin is still complicated understand, use and implement to the average non tech user.

Layer 2 is a MUST, and we have to find more user friendly solutions. users will pay for a good solution.

make sense ?  






  

Depends on your smarts ceiling. There's actually a lot to discuss about bitcoin if you really dig deep into it, like bips and other github related things but not everyone is smart enough to understand how all that works and the code etc including me.

Thinking of trying to improve the Bitcoin ecosystem in various ways. I was wondering whether there is any good ideas for new layer-2 solutions to build for it? Or perhaps a better Bitcoin payment app or something. Essentially you need a project idea related to Bitcoin. I think it’ll help you understand Bitcoin better while trying to improve the ecosystem.

Bitcoin is extremely divisible so even if its relative value rises that is not an issue.

If you're concerned about transaction speed, bitcoin's L2 lightning network already solves this. Lightning is the only bitcoin L2 that exists right now, its all conceptual so far. If you ask me holding self custody on L1 without running a node. I am not okay holding on L2 self custody without my node online. Because you can hack me over easily on L1.

Your node is layer 1, your node is securing layer 2, your node cares. The speed/fees framing to me is basically devs fixating on layer 2 benefit over layer 1. But really need to see layer 2 products that are better than all other forms of payment.

Satoshi said that lost bitcoin is a gift to everyone else so its definitely not a good idea to take away the gifts the rest of us got.

"Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone." - SNttons

That's exactly the point. now try to explain this to a hard working person who has no tech background whatsoever and all he wants is to go to the market and pay for groceries and save part of his income for the kids collage.
Try teaching him self running nodes , L1, L2 satoshi's vision and the whole bitcoin ecosystem. seed , verifying transactions, byzantine generals, its not gonna work.

It has to be :
1 download this app.
2 This is savings account.
3 This is spending account
4 This is the backup
5 This is Receive Button, Spend Button ,Save Button.

All the ecosystem has to be wrapped in these 5 steps and its differently challenging.

KISS Keep It Simple Stupid


 


   

[philipma1957]

I've had a weird relationship with Bitcoin lately.
I think about community developments on things such as LN , Vanity search projects, tools, tickers scrapers ECT.....
How they where developed by altruistic members for the chance of creativity, freedom and decentralized banking.

Bitcoin is now a store of value ,a commodity of fiat held by institutional parties.

Major altruistic contributors , sidelined. Some got tips. Most got nothing. 

If fees stay at 1 Satoshi , will LN/Layer 2 really be necessary?  What happens when we are all mined up, no one sells and only holds, and the mining fees don't cover the electric bill. Bitcoins showing signs of fatigue and stagnation overall. Will it die ,I don't think so, but Bitcoin doesn't appear to be designed for and by cypherpunks.
If it was , wall street weaponized it.

I've dedicated a lot of my life to this particular branch of cryptography, I've learned a lot! But it kinda feels like it was for nothing at this point. I've publicly released all my crypto projects source codes and walking away from developing in this sector.

I'll still be around speculating but that's about it.

I was not a hodl person. So while I made money with BTC or profit or wealth  I did not get rich.

Now at 68 And being with BTC in 2012 when coins dropped to 6 or 7 bucks after the 1/2 ing it is easy to torture my self

That I should have got 100 coins for 600 or 700 bucks and sell 10 at 1000 a coin and 10 at 10000 a coin and 10 at 100,000 a coin.  which means I would have 70 coins and a decent amount of cash.

Well that never happen but I did make some money I can use. For those that held 100 or more coins until they were valuable good for them.

[boyptc]

Change is constant.

That's what we can just accept right now and everything that changes is based on what's the need of the people. I agree that if the fee remains at 1 sat then there is no need for changes at all but LN has already been there and so let's stick to that as an alternative.

What people mostly look at Bitcoin right now as a store of value and they don't mind about all of these technical aspects that you've said.

[mrkfdr]

Change is constant.

That's what we can just accept right now and everything that changes is based on what's the need of the people. I agree that if the fee remains at 1 sat then there is no need for changes at all but LN has already been there and so let's stick to that as an alternative.

What people mostly look at Bitcoin right now as a store of value and they don't mind about all of these technical aspects that you've said.

You are right about the store of value
But to store value ITS TOO COMPLICATED FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON.
There are people im familiar with,  who made more then five transactions  to cold storage and still can't complete a BTC transaction by themselves.

Explained the usb Key concept to an accountant who wishes to invest and buy bitcoin , its too complicated for him.Forget it im not gonna do this was is reaction.

maybe im surrounded buy dumb people, donno.
I was around and explained people how to configure baud-rate to access internet and prompt mailto for e-mail.
reminds me this time with same challenges in the history of the tech evolution.
Just saying

[BenCodie]

It is ironic though it has always been a fact that institutions had the power to jump in at any time, it was never really up to the community or Bitcoin. I think original bitcoin contributors and supporters should be proud of the change they started! As for LN, better to have that mechanism there for when it's needed, and while the lifetime of L2's may be limited, they're solving temporary problems and onboarding new blockchain users and devs too.

Good luck with your next steps WhyFhy