Apology to OldEngineer

[the joint]

Merry Christmas, everyone! 



That quote about smart students that cheat was applied within a particular context.

Namely, studies show that students and children that lie pathologically or cheat in school tend to score higher in terms of 'g' than their peers.  In other words, a problem is defined by the child (i.e. "if I do 'x' then 'y' may result, where 'y' is undesirable and the problem), so naturally the child does whatever it takes to avoid the consequences and thus avoid or solve the problem.

If a child does poorly on a test (x) then he might get a bad grade (y).  So, he cheats to avoid 'y' and the problem.

This is based upon the idea that intelligence simply means "problem solving ability" where the problem is defined by the subject.  So, the child solves the problem he has defined (i.e. he does not receive a bad grade).  Thus, he is intelligent.

[BurtW]

Merry Christmas, everyone! 



That quote about smart students that cheat was applied within a particular context.

Namely, studies show that students and children that lie pathologically or cheat in school tend to score higher in terms of 'g' than their peers.  In other words, a problem is defined by the child (i.e. "if I do 'x' then 'y' may result, where 'y' is undesirable and the problem), so naturally the child does whatever it takes to avoid the consequences and thus avoid or solve the problem.

If a child does poorly on a test (x) then he might get a bad grade (y).  So, he cheats to avoid 'y' and the problem.

This is based upon the idea that intelligence simply means "problem solving ability" where the problem is defined by the subject.  So, the child solves the problem he has defined (i.e. he does not receive a bad grade).  Thus, he is intelligent.

But cheating is wrong.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Merry Christmas, everyone! 



That quote about smart students that cheat was applied within a particular context.

Namely, studies show that students and children that lie pathologically or cheat in school tend to score higher in terms of 'g' than their peers.  In other words, a problem is defined by the child (i.e. "if I do 'x' then 'y' may result, where 'y' is undesirable and the problem), so naturally the child does whatever it takes to avoid the consequences and thus avoid or solve the problem.

If a child does poorly on a test (x) then he might get a bad grade (y).  So, he cheats to avoid 'y' and the problem.

This is based upon the idea that intelligence simply means "problem solving ability" where the problem is defined by the subject.  So, the child solves the problem he has defined (i.e. he does not receive a bad grade).  Thus, he is intelligent.

But cheating is wrong.

Unless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs0J2F3ErMc

[casascius]

Probably why China is kicking our (America's) ass...  We are busy cheating in school, and they are busy studying.

[netrin]

Dear Mr. Joint,

You're making yourself look like an idiot.

Sincerely,
Everyone but Kokjo

is that better?

[kokjo]

Merry Christmas, everyone! 



That quote about smart students that cheat was applied within a particular context.

Namely, studies show that students and children that lie pathologically or cheat in school tend to score higher in terms of 'g' than their peers.  In other words, a problem is defined by the child (i.e. "if I do 'x' then 'y' may result, where 'y' is undesirable and the problem), so naturally the child does whatever it takes to avoid the consequences and thus avoid or solve the problem.

If a child does poorly on a test (x) then he might get a bad grade (y).  So, he cheats to avoid 'y' and the problem.

This is based upon the idea that intelligence simply means "problem solving ability" where the problem is defined by the subject.  So, the child solves the problem he has defined (i.e. he does not receive a bad grade).  Thus, he is intelligent.

But cheating is wrong.

no its not. its a part of the game

[kokjo]

Dear Mr. Joint,

You're making yourself look like an idiot.

Sincerely,
Everyone but Kokjo

is that better?

much! thank you. but i still don't think that he should speak for the whole community, and should instead speak as an individual:

Dear Mr. Joint,

You're making yourself look like an idiot.

Sincerely,
Me

[RandyFolds]

Dear Mr. Joint,

You're making yourself look like an idiot.

Sincerely,
Everyone but Kokjo

is that better?

much! thank you. but i still don't think that he should speak for the whole community, and should instead speak as an individual:

Dear Mr. Joint,

You're making yourself look like an idiot.

Sincerely,
Me and RandyFolds

[kokjo]

I think this tells us a lot about how you think:

The smartest student, I think, is the one who finds the most efficient means of passing any examination or test they come across.

Yes, even by cheating. 

The smartest student is the one who learns the most.

School is about the acquisition of knowledge, not passing exams or having a high GPA.

This times a million.

Grades show nothing but how well you comply (which in itself is a valuable measure for gaining employment). An A+ while working your ass off in my mind is no different than a C without trying.

i get 12(the highest) in math, without even trying to do be best. the lessons bores me, and all the stuff we learn i learn in about 10 min, while the other students are struggling... im not working my ass off to get a A+.

Ok...you are good at math. Cool story. Pretty much everyone has something they are good at. That would be the exception, not the rule.

it was to tell that you can get A+, without even trying.

[RandyFolds]

I think everyone is aware of that. Unfortunately, that is not the case across the board. Maybe you destroyed math, but biology kicks your ass. Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe English is your crux. No one is a master of all trades.

On a level field, what I said before stands. Listening, understanding, and getting a C is superior to regurgitating for an A, IMHO.

[kokjo]

I think everyone is aware of that. Unfortunately, that is not the case across the board. Maybe you destroyed math, but biology kicks your ass. Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe English is your crux. No one is a master of all trades.

On a level field, what I said before stands. Listening, understanding, and getting a C is superior to regurgitating for an A, IMHO.

i did not say that i was perfect... i suck in all human languages Danish, French, English.
a C instead of an A, IMHO, does also indicate lazyness, and lack of interest.

[the joint]

I think everyone is aware of that. Unfortunately, that is not the case across the board. Maybe you destroyed math, but biology kicks your ass. Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe English is your crux. No one is a master of all trades.

On a level field, what I said before stands. Listening, understanding, and getting a C is superior to regurgitating for an A, IMHO.

How can you regurgitate for an A if you don't listen and understand what is expected to be regurgitated?  If you got a C, apparently you didn't listen or understand what you were being taught.  Although, there is the possibility that you are far more intelligent than those who designed the curriculum and you get a C for giving answers that are actually correct but are deemed by others to be wrong.

In this world, A's help you get into good graduate and post-graduate institutions which helps to determine how much money you will make, how able you will be to support a family, and how much extra time you will have either for intrinsically beneficial activities or for activities that help the community.

In the end, very few people use even 5% of what they learned in school at their jobs (though this percentage typically increases the higher up the education ladder you go).  Inevitably, classroom tests and especially standardized tests end up testing things other than a person's aptitude.  If a person cheats their way through school because they want to spend more time on the things that are really important in life (and getting that fine looking 'A' to boot), then I'd call that smart.

In my opinion, the best way to learn is from your own experience  -- actually, your experience is the only thing you can learn from.  It's all you have.  Nothing of which you could ever be aware exists outside of your experience.   My senses alone make me intuitively aware of things (i.e. they give me direct knowledge of certain things) that people have been arguing over for thousands of years.  For example, I don't need anybody to tell me that I emit a spiritual aura -- I already know that I do, it's self-evident.  Going to school has really only served to impede my acquisition of knowledge, except that I'll at least have a pretty paycheck to show for my time.

School is a breeding house for parrots, and the peer-review process has arguably been one of the largest obstacles to our species' progress.

[casascius]

In the end, very few people use even 5% of what they learned in school at their jobs (though this percentage typically increases the higher up the education ladder you go).  Inevitably, classroom tests and especially standardized tests end up testing things other than a person's aptitude.  If a person cheats their way through school because they want to spend more time on the things that are really important in life (and getting that fine looking 'A' to boot), then I'd call that smart.

In my opinion, the best way to learn is from your own experience.   My senses alone make me intuitively aware of things (i.e. they give me direct knowledge of certain things) that people have been arguing over for thousands of years.  For example, I don't need anybody to tell me that I emit a spiritual aura -- I already know that I do, it's self-evident.  Going to school has really only served to impede my acquisition of knowledge, except that I'll at least have a pretty paycheck to show for my time.

School is a breeding house for parrots, and the peer-review process has arguably been one of the largest obstacles to our species' progress.

I'm glad you're smart.  Though, it sure seemed difficult to get you to understand what's wrong with your opinion that someone who didn't choose to give you something is somehow obligated to do so anyway.

You need to read Atlas Shrugged.  Buy it in paper, buy it online (e.g. Kindle for PC), or if you feel inclined to receive it in exchange for nothing, it looks like you can actually steal it via The Pirate Bay.  You've clearly got the brainpower to process it, so you really should read it.

Being familiar with this book will put you a little notch higher of emitting actual knowledge, and will allow you to not just limit yourself to intoxicating those around you with the product of your brilliant intuition (referring, of course, to everything you say and do that leaves us awestruck other than making a fool of yourself on that thread you're hoping gets swept under the rug by the mods).

[the joint]

In the end, very few people use even 5% of what they learned in school at their jobs (though this percentage typically increases the higher up the education ladder you go).  Inevitably, classroom tests and especially standardized tests end up testing things other than a person's aptitude.  If a person cheats their way through school because they want to spend more time on the things that are really important in life (and getting that fine looking 'A' to boot), then I'd call that smart.

In my opinion, the best way to learn is from your own experience.   My senses alone make me intuitively aware of things (i.e. they give me direct knowledge of certain things) that people have been arguing over for thousands of years.  For example, I don't need anybody to tell me that I emit a spiritual aura -- I already know that I do, it's self-evident.  Going to school has really only served to impede my acquisition of knowledge, except that I'll at least have a pretty paycheck to show for my time.

School is a breeding house for parrots, and the peer-review process has arguably been one of the largest obstacles to our species' progress.

I'm glad you're smart.  Though, it sure seemed difficult to get you to understand what's wrong with your opinion that someone who didn't choose to give you something is somehow obligated to do so anyway.

You need to read Atlas Shrugged.  Buy it in paper, buy it online (e.g. Kindle for PC), or if you feel inclined to receive it in exchange for nothing, it looks like you can actually steal it via The Pirate Bay.  You've clearly got the brainpower to process it, so you really should read it.

Being familiar with this book will put you a little notch higher of emitting actual knowledge, and will allow you to not just limit yourself to intoxicating those around you with the product of your brilliant intuition (referring, of course, to everything you say and do that leaves us awestruck other than making a fool of yourself on that thread you're hoping gets swept under the rug by the mods).

I will look into Atlas Shrugged.  Regarding everything else, it's Christmas and I'd prefer not to get bogged down with all that today.  It's been an absolutely fabulous day with friends and loved ones.

Merry Christmas!