Possible cheating in Betpanda campaign

[Xiestar]

no difference in terms of work really, but it doesn't matter, it's still a scam/cheating as they are not allowed to enroll alts in the same campaign and literally every manager has this rule.
if it's not allowed, it's not allowed, no ifs or buts.

The scam occurs due to the greed of people who join many accounts in the same campaign. Campaign managers create rules for each campaign they publish. It is not without reason that campaign managers only allow one account per user to join. You cannot see such cases with the amount of work completed. This violates campaign rules, clearly cheating the manager, as well as other participants who also apply for the campaign.

There wouldn't really be an issue if the alt accounts joined other signature campaigns that allow alt accounts to join, but as you can see on LoyceV's post above, betpanda's signature campaign has a rule where alt accounts are not allowed to join the campaign. While there might not be a difference in their work, they still broke the signature campaign's rule, which is the issue that is being pointed out.

My point is there’s no scam happened. I defined scam as someone committed fraud that cause losses to others. The user only broke the rules of account limit but in terms of work done he did a fair work on his side to get the payment therefore he didn’t scam the project rather just broke some rules.

I consider it as scam if the user in question use AI tool or other dishonest work that is not worth it for a payment. If this user doesn’t caught alt account his work is considered as fine.


I still don’t understand until now why the 1 account per campaign is still a thing now while there’s a lot of local board that obviously committing merit jerking to each other as an easy ticket to join campaigns.

They are not caught because of lack of wallet connections but in terms of merit jerking it’s very obvious. High rank member is involved on this farming that results to more cautious newbie account on wallet connection but good on merit farming.

I see this as hey investigator pls caught cheater so that we can let in fresh blood of farmed merit jerker that create zero sense post on gambling board after farming merit on local merits jerker board and wo. We need more merit sauceee.

 *walter junior voice*

[nutildah]

My point is there’s no scam happened. I defined scam as someone committed fraud that cause losses to others.

Obviously Little Mouse thinks that losses happened or he wouldn't bother to seek recovery from the participants. It doesn't really matter what your personal definition of "scam" is.

The user only broke the rules of account limit but in terms of work done he did a fair work on his side to get the payment therefore he didn’t scam the project rather just broke some rules.

I would say the work isn't "fair". For every alt account someone enrolls in a campaign on the forum, the brainpower of their posts are reduced in half. So if someone enrolls 4 accounts, the IQ of each post is only around 25% of what it should be.

I still don’t understand until now why the 1 account per campaign is still a thing now while there’s a lot of local board that obviously committing merit jerking to each other as an easy ticket to join campaigns.

Because some campaign managers value giving a chance to enroll in a campaign to as many people as possible over flooding the forum with as many spammy low-IQ posts as possible. If a CM feels "scammed" out of campaign funds, you're not in any position to contest that.

[Little Mouse]

Obviously Little Mouse thinks that losses happened or he wouldn't bother to seek recovery from the participants. It doesn't really matter what your personal definition of "scam" is.

Due to his deception/abuse, we had resources misused. A campaign manager can understand it. If due to someone's deception, misuse of resources/funds isn't a scam, I don't know what it can be called.
Well, it's a forum with many mechanisms in the feedback system. If someone thinks that a wrong flag is created, they can oppose it.

[Despairo]

It's already 4 days since this thread created, both of them always make a post when they're in campaign, if they're not active, they only missed one day.

I think they're still collecting the money in order to not get painted, their accounts are more valuable.

They are not caught because of lack of wallet connections but in terms of merit jerking it’s very obvious. High rank member is involved on this farming that results to more cautious newbie account on wallet connection but good on merit farming.

I see this as hey investigator pls caught cheater so that we can let in fresh blood of farmed merit jerker that create zero sense post on gambling board after farming merit on local merits jerker board and wo. We need more merit sauceee.

The thing is, when DT member give negative feedback just because they're abusing merit, people see that as an inappropriate use of negative feedback. It's why people don't care with merit abuse, but I do care, before I want to give merit, I check the user merit history first.

Now they're more creative, they didn't only merit on local posts, but they give merit on global posts, to make it looks organic. But, if you check the merit history, it's come from their friends.

[Xiestar]

I would say the work isn't "fair". For every alt account someone enrolls in a campaign on the forum, the brainpower of their posts are reduced in half. So if someone enrolls 4 accounts, the IQ of each post is only around 25% of what it should be.

It comes back on why did campaign manager pay the post if the post quality is way below the standard.

Are you implying that campaign manager doesn’t check post quality before they initiate payout to participants?

What’s the difference for user having 2 accounts to user with 1 account that post equivalent post per day. For example LoyceV average post per day is 10 post, will his IQ will be lower if he distributes that post count to 2 account?

I’m only saying that if such low post is the main issue on multiple account, why does it receive payment.


I want to go back to my main battle cry about merit jerker that keeps successfully milking campaign on legal way just because they don’t have evidence of connection aside from blatant merit sharing.

I received butthurt neutral tag for pointing this out but why campaign manager consider merit count that received on topic that is not related on the brand they are promoting. I think post quality on the relevant board is should be the top priority instead of this merit count to deny this merit jerking farming.

[Lillominato89]

Obviously Little Mouse thinks that losses happened or he wouldn't bother to seek recovery from the participants. It doesn't really matter what your personal definition of "scam" is.

Due to his deception/abuse, we had resources misused. A campaign manager can understand it. If due to someone's deception, misuse of resources/funds isn't a scam, I don't know what it can be called.
Well, it's a forum with many mechanisms in the feedback system. If someone thinks that a wrong flag is created, they can oppose it.

The scam did happen! Oh yes, it definitely did. By breaking one of the signature campaign rules, the user not only gained financially but also prevented another user from joining the campaign. In fact, they scammed not just the community manager but also another unsuspecting user who could have been chosen instead!
Unfortunately, detecting alt-accounts isn't easy, and these little scammers know it well — that's how they manage to sneak into signature campaigns! But you'd have to be really stupid to join the same campaign with both your main and alt accounts!
If they catch you, you're marked for life!

[Shishir99]

It's sad to see they are secretly enrolling alts in my campaign. Many other campaigns exist these days, and almost all have the same payment structure. Why enroll in the same campaign?

There are open positions in many campaigns where they could apply and probably get hired, but they decided to apply in the same campaign and join it, knowing alternative account is not allowed. Of course, it is cheating, and a negative tag should be given if they do not provide any valid explanation. They had enough time to post their reply, but none of them said anything in this thread.

At least Pakhitheboss had some excuses, and he got some support from his friends, and they got a few weeks to reply, but they ended up scamming the lender. LM, you should give them a time frame to reply, or else a negative tag should be given.

[nutildah]

I would say the work isn't "fair". For every alt account someone enrolls in a campaign on the forum, the brainpower of their posts are reduced in half. So if someone enrolls 4 accounts, the IQ of each post is only around 25% of what it should be.

It comes back on why did campaign manager pay the post if the post quality is way below the standard.

Wrong. It comes back on you trying to excuse dishonest behavior, most likely because you yourself engage in it. And you are not the only one. The campaign rules are in place. Breaking them secretively is an act of dishonesty. I would not trust such accounts in any type of situation.

What’s the difference for user having 2 accounts to user with 1 account that post equivalent post per day. For example LoyceV average post per day is 10 post, will his IQ will be lower if he distributes that post count to 2 account?

If he starts cranking out 20 posts per day, then yes, I would say its likely the effort expended in each one would only be half as much as normal, and it would be evident. Lucky for LoyceV he's a pretty smart guy. But I don't think he would enroll secret alt accounts into the same campaign, because he doesn't exhibit dishonest behavior.

I’m only saying that if such low post is the main issue on multiple account, why does it receive payment.

As has been explained to you a couple of times already, there's more to it than that. Its also about giving multiple people the chance to earn money from being enrolled in a signature campaign. One person hogging multiple spots goes against this principle.

Become a campaign manager and then you can have any rules you want. Right now you're just whining for not apparent reason.

[Awaklara]

They had enough time to post their reply, but none of them said anything in this thread.

Not only did these accounts not reply to this thread, they went silent and all three were inactive for days. It doesn't strengthen the evidence, but the silence of these three accounts makes us see that the evidence that has been shown does point to the truth.

I saw the campaign manager looking for these accounts in the manager's Telegram group. Baofeng joined the group, but his telegram account was last active on the 28, just like the account on the forum. We may have to wait for them to be active, but giving them a time limit may be necessary.

[Zwei]

My point is there’s no scam happened. I defined scam as someone committed fraud that cause losses to others. The user only broke the rules of account limit but in terms of work done he did a fair work on his side to get the payment therefore he didn’t scam the project rather just broke some rules.

I consider it as scam if the user in question use AI tool or other dishonest work that is not worth it for a payment. If this user doesn’t caught alt account his work is considered as fine.

yeah, the user ONLY used his alts to join the same campaign that clearly stated in the rules that no alts are allowed, and he ONLY received money he had no right to since he broke the rules. if that's not fraud, i don't know what is.

the amount of fair work or the quality of the posts doesn't fucking matter, all campaigns have some sort of post limit to/that qualify for payment. using an alt to get around those limits to get more money because you are a greedy ass is not okay, so stop trying to justify that it's okay.
and those "some rules" you speak of are basically a written contract between the manager and the campaign participant, you either follow the rules or don't join. it's that simple.

I want to go back to my main battle cry about merit jerker that keeps successfully milking campaign on legal way just because they don’t have evidence of connection aside from blatant merit sharing.

I received butthurt neutral tag for pointing this out but why campaign manager consider merit count that received on topic that is not related on the brand they are promoting. I think post quality on the relevant board is should be the top priority instead of this merit count to deny this merit jerking farming.

this is not the thread to talk about it, so feel free to open your own thread and talk about this there.
let's keep things on topic please.

[The Cryptovator]

First of all, sending payment to the same address doesn't prove they are alt. So let Kemarit take advantage of the doubts. But it seems there is clear evidence Jating and Baofeng used the same address. Since they have been enrolling in the same campaigns, they already broke the campaign rules. They are abusing the campaign, which should consider shady behaviour. Campaign managers would leave negative feedback from their ends first if they want to do so.

I have sent a DM to both, so they should reply here and explain the situation. Otherwise, they must deserve negative feedback, and probably I will take a deep look at this matter if their response isn't satisfying. How stupid they are; there are a lot of different campaigns, and they could participate freely. It means it's not necessary to abuse a campaign anyway. To me this is punishable offense.

[JeromeTash]

If anyone has been doubting whether the three accounts are alts. Maybe now would be the time to think otherwise. All the 3 accounts mentioned have stopped activity since then, which doesn't make sense if any of them were innocent.
For a high paying campaign like Betpanda, it surely can't be a mistake that all the three just stopped posting at once

It's such a shame that greed had to blind someone into cheating in signature campaign, yet there were many other available campaigns that pay well too.

[LoyceV]

How stupid they are; there are a lot of different campaigns, and they could participate freely.

Now you're assuming they don't have many more accounts in these campaigns already

I've been thinking about a new data project for a while: once in a while someone finds the same address that is posted by different users, and I assume they find those by searching for that one address. How fun would it be to list all addresses ever posted on Bitcointalk, and add all usernames that posted it to each address on the list? It'll be a lot of data to process, and I'm a bit afraid the resulting list will be very long with many false positives and many already handled cases. But I'm pretty sure this data will bust a lot of alt accounts

[nutildah]

I've been thinking about a new data project for a while: once in a while someone finds the same address that is posted by different users, and I assume they find those by searching for that one address. How fun would it be to list all addresses ever posted on Bitcointalk, and add all usernames that posted it to each address on the list? It'll be a lot of data to process, and I'm a bit afraid the resulting list will be very long with many false positives and many already handled cases. But I'm pretty sure this data will bust a lot of alt accounts

Ha!

You absolutely should do it.

TryNinja's resource is already pretty good at it, but you have to know which account name or address you are looking for first. There has never been something that tied it all together. Like, any address that has been mentioned 2 or more times by 2 or more accounts. I suppose that would be the basic starting criteria.

Yes there will be a lot of false positives but you can let me sort through them


[cheaters now furiously scrubbing old posts with addresses from the forum]

[Don Pedro Dinero]

If anyone has been doubting whether the three accounts are alts. Maybe now would be the time to think otherwise. All the 3 accounts mentioned have stopped activity since then, which doesn't make sense if any of them were innocent.
For a high paying campaign like Betpanda, it surely can't be a mistake that all the three just stopped posting at once

How stupid they are; there are a lot of different campaigns, and they could participate freely.

Now you're assuming they don't have many more accounts in these campaigns already

These things make me wonder how many accounts these cheaters can manage. I think that even if I didn't have a main job, if I wanted to maintain a minimum of quality in my posts I don't think I could handle more than two accounts, three if I my food on the table depended on it. The guy who cheated in the CM campaign and nutildah busted managed three accounts, but on the third one he didn't usually complete all the posts. If I were to lower the quality and do a lot of shitposting in the gambling section, as these types of accounts tend to do a lot, I think I'd have a very hard time keeping more than four. But seeing this kind of things I wouldn't be surprised if some of them manage half a dozen accounts or more. And even more thinking that in certain countries with what they earn from signature campaigns they can live like Marajahs.

[Shishir99]

Not only did these accounts not reply to this thread, they went silent and all three were inactive for days. It doesn't strengthen the evidence, but the silence of these three accounts makes us see that the evidence that has been shown does point to the truth.

When there is some evidence presented already, no one should stay silent. I would stay silent if someone accused me of something that I didn't do, and their accusation does not have any basis. If someone can present some kind of proof against me, only then will I respond to their accusation. But if the accusation start with word like, I believe, I think, then I am not going to give it a shit.

Considering there is some kind of evidence that suggest these accounts are alts and the majority of community members are expecting them to reply, they should come out if they have something to say. They are likely to get red painted soon if they do not response.

[mcdouglasx]

While some of us need jobs, others in the shadows hold three or four positions. This is a bit sad.

[JollyGood]

Here are the posting times for the last 7 posts for each account. Notice the times they would post and how close the minutes were.

Jating: April 27, 2025, 11:00:30 PM
Kemarit: April 27, 2025, 11:05:23 PM

Jating: April 27, 2025, 10:30:32 PM
Kemarit: April 27, 2025, 10:37:11 PM

Jating: April 27, 2025, 02:33:51 PM
Kemarit: April 27, 2025, 02:25:21 PM

Jating: April 27, 2025, 11:51:43 AM
Kemarit: April 27, 2025, 11:59:02 AM

Jating: April 27, 2025, 11:12:04 AM
Kemarit: April 27, 2025, 11:17:20 AM

Jating: April 26, 2025, 10:00:04 PM
Kemarit: April 26, 2025, 09:44:39 PM

Jating: April 26, 2025, 09:22:25 PM
Kemarit: April 26, 2025, 09:11:25 PM

The fact all three members have not been online the past few days speaks volumes as it could be related to more (as of yet undiscovered) accounts but that is a different matter altogether.

I've been of the opinion for a while that this kind of evidence (suspiciously-timed posting patterns) is merely supplementary, meaning you can't hang an investigation on it by itself. However, when combined with other evidence, yes it does further the suggestion that these accounts are alts of each other. The silence by all 3 accounts (even if it is their "forum right") is also a bit suspicious. You would think that at least one account would be up in arms about the accusations. Who knows what they're thinking. But its not looking good.

Even if suspicions arise and only some odd bits of clues are discovered here and there, eventually when the pieces add up it it more than likely equates to something untoward going on. In some circumstances it is difficult to give the benefit of the doubt.

[Free Market Capitalist]

The fact all three members have not been online the past few days speaks volumes as it could be related to more (as of yet undiscovered) accounts but that is a different matter altogether.

It is already clear to me that there are three alts accounts managed by the same person. If I haven't tagged them yet it's because LM is the one I think should do it first, and I guess he will have given them a reasonable time to answer. Besides there is no hurry, as they are not active they are not going to scam anyone.

[lovesmayfamilis]

The fact all three members have not been online the past few days speaks volumes as it could be related to more (as of yet undiscovered) accounts but that is a different matter altogether.

The last time all three accounts were online was on April 28. But it is noteworthy that on the neighboring forum, they also participated in signature companies; two participated in one (I don't know if they violated the rules on that forum), but their visits were at different times.
But still, if there are no explanations and justifications, then we can guess that these three accounts were thrown out as unnecessary since there are several more; for the owner, there is no big problem to write from other accounts.
Their sending of merits is quite a template; I think that everyone to whom numerous merits were sent may also belong to this owner.