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Author Topic: MtGox account with $220 blocked for more than six weeks without explanation  (Read 3429 times)
MtGox_Adam
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December 23, 2011, 06:54:56 AM
 #21

Thank you to Maged who gave me a heads up on this issue.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to discuss details about the account "zweiblum" on a public forum. We have left some feedback in your ticket.

If you are having trouble with your Mt.Gox account please visit https://support.mtgox.com or email our Helpdesk at support@mtgox.com

Authorized Mt.Gox Help Desk staff on this forum operate under the following handles: "Mt.Gox Support", "Mt.Gox_Natalie", "mtgoxCharlie" and "bitflower"
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zwei2blum
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December 23, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
 #22

Quote
I'll PM Adam to see if he can take a look into this case, and hopefully provide a better explanation. (Other MtGox folks are free to respond, of course!)

Thanks, I'll keep you posted if there is any news...

Quote
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.  I guess I just feel like *most* people would operate a company in a reasonable, sustainable way.  I feel like MtGox has been around long enough that they have proven they aren't a group of scammers.  And if that is the case, they receive no benefit from running their company into the ground by using more money than they are gaining.  They receive much more benefit from continuing their operations as-is ($2000-$5000/day) than they would from stealing everyone's funds without reporting it and turning into some sort of fractional-reserve that will eventually go bust.

Makes sense to me. Lets hope you are right.
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December 23, 2011, 10:34:29 AM
 #23

Unfortunately, we will not be able to discuss details about the account "zweiblum" on a public forum. We have left some feedback in your ticket.

I think Maged my be over-optimistic in thinking we'll get any kind of meaningful answer out of Mt Gox. In similar previous cases they've done things like make vague insinuations that the user is a criminal with no actual details given to anyone, including said user.

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December 23, 2011, 02:05:54 PM
 #24

Unfortunately, we will not be able to discuss details about the account "zweiblum" on a public forum. We have left some feedback in your ticket.

I think Maged my be over-optimistic in thinking we'll get any kind of meaningful answer out of Mt Gox. In similar previous cases they've done things like make vague insinuations that the user is a criminal with no actual details given to anyone, including said user.
Why do you think I contacted Adam? He's much more personable than Mark (for good reason, since Mark is first and foremost a developer and business owner), but he's also the most senior customer service representative. This is about the best that we can do for zwei2blum over here. Hopefully, it is enough to get things moving with MtGox again.

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December 23, 2011, 03:09:18 PM
 #25

Thank you to Maged who gave me a heads up on this issue.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to discuss details about the account "zweiblum" on a public forum. We have left some feedback in your ticket.

Could you at least give the rest of us reason to believe that our next deposit won't be simply confiscated?
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December 27, 2011, 04:24:31 PM
 #26

Holy hell! I just made my first transaction with mtgox, I'm hoping that won't happen here...

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December 31, 2011, 09:23:01 PM
 #27

just signed into MT GOX to withdraw 10 bitcoins and got the under review message.
i dont understand why nor do they give a reason. ive only been a member of gox for almost 3 months but i havent had any problems untill now.
i sent an email about it but after everything ive been reading it doesnt seem like im gonna hear back anytime soon.
i really hope mt gox gets there shit together because i liked using them as my exchange and am not looking to go somewere else.
(wich of course if i dont get my 110 BTC back from that account i will)

when and if mt gox ever does anything about my frozen account ill be sure to update...

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January 21, 2012, 04:42:39 PM
 #28

I am sorry that you had to wait such a long time for an update. I was hoping for good news from MtGox and wanted to give them some time to react.

It is now three month after my account got blocked, an my $220 are still locked in it. I am starting to consider my money stolen Sad by MtGox.

After Maged sent a PM to MtGox_Adam I really got a reply on my ticket. I was asked to provide notarized copies of the documents I submitted (my lease agreement and  my German photo ID) and to send them by regular mail to Japan. Notarizing these documents (with apostille, as they require) costs around €70 (~$100) per document and I asked if they could guarantee that I will get a refund of these expenses which they ignored. Also, making photocopies of government issued ID's is illegal in Germany, so it will be hard to get such a copy notarized.

When pointing this out, Adam asked for "another proof of residence" and I submitted every document I could find (about 9 pages) ranging from bank and payroll statements  to social security documents. This was on Jan 5, more than two weeks ago. After this point I did not get any other reply on my ticket (Request #16875).

Do any of you have similar experience with being locked out from your accounts? How did you get back in?

If I ever get access to my money again, I will post it here, but I start to doubt this.



Attached is again the history from the MtGox Ticket System:
Quote
   Hi [Real Name removed],

    I'll be to the point - we could not verify the authenticity of the documents you submitted, and thus have banned your account in the interim while we investigate.

    We know that you've been patient to get access to these funds, but realistically we won't be able to give an update (or release the funds) until we have proved the authenticity of your documents.

    We will get back to you in early January with an update.

    Thanks,

    MtGox.com Team

Dec-23 2011 16:00
User photo
[Real Name removed]

    Hi Adam thanks for your reply. Can I submit you anything else that would be easier to check?

Dec-23 2011 16:09
User photo
Adam
Mt.Gox

    Hi [Real Name removed],

    Thank you for your cooperation. Yes, if you would kindly mail us a notarized copy of the documents you submitted, it would help speed things up greatly.

    Our address is:

    AML - Tibanne Co. Ltd.
    26-1 Sakuragaoka-cho
    Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan
    150-8512

    Once we have received the documents we will be able to give you access to your account.

    Thanks,

    MtGox.com Team

Dec-23 2011 16:52
User photo

[Real Name removed]

    Hi Adam,

    notarizing and shipping these documents will cost me around €20, which is more than 10% of the value of the money in my account. Is MtGox willing to refund these expenses?

    Another suggestion I have is that you convert the bitcoins in my account (should not be much more than the $220 deposited in October from Dwolla) back to USD and transfer them back to the Dwolla account where they came from. This seems like a cost efficient and relatively fraud-proof alternative to me. What do you think?

    Thanks,
    [Real Name removed]

Dec-23 2011 18:54
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Adam
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    Hi [Real Name removed],

    Sorry for the delay. Do you have another proof of residence you can show us that is different from the last?

    Thanks,

    MtGox.com Team

Jan-05 2012 13:02
User photo
[Real Name removed]

    Hi,

    as I pay my utilities as a flat rate with my rent I do not have any
    utility bills (I sent you my lease agreement before, if I remember it
    right). However, I attached a payment letter from my employer and
    different letters from different insurance companies, my bank, the
    Fulbright Commission and social security that all show my current address.

    Hope that helps! Thanks,
    [Real Name removed]
        proof_of_residiency_0.png proof_of_residiency_0.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_1.png proof_of_residiency_1.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_2.png proof_of_residiency_2.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_3.png proof_of_residiency_3.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_4.png proof_of_residiency_4.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_5.png proof_of_residiency_5.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_6.png proof_of_residiency_6.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_7.png proof_of_residiency_7.png (quick view)
        proof_of_residiency_8.png proof_of_residiency_8.png (quick view)

Jan-05 2012 17:05

 
Matthew N. Wright
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January 21, 2012, 04:50:59 PM
 #29

 Roll Eyes @ MtGox.

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January 21, 2012, 05:04:50 PM
 #30

Here is just an off-the-wall idea: if you're legit, why don't you just use an overnight courier to send the original documents to MtGox so they can inspect them by hand, and trust that they will return them.

"But I don't want MtGox keeping my passport!"

They probably won't.  And if you came in here and convinced us that they did, we'd shame them for it.

This is what I would do before I would bother with a $90 notary service (that also required me to send my passport somewhere and trust its return).

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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January 21, 2012, 05:15:24 PM
 #31

Here is just an off-the-wall idea: if you're legit, why don't you just use an overnight courier to send the original documents to MtGox so they can inspect them by hand, and trust that they will return them.

"But I don't want MtGox keeping my passport!"

They probably won't.  And if you came in here and convinced us that they did, we'd shame them for it.

This is what I would do before I would bother with a $90 notary service (that also required me to send my passport somewhere and trust its return).

Horribly irresponsible suggestion is horribly irresponsible.

Never let your passport out of your sight, much less trust it to an organization that is notorious for lack of communication and explanations for blatant and obvious disregard for customers.



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January 21, 2012, 05:18:20 PM
 #32

Here is just an off-the-wall idea: if you're legit, why don't you just use an overnight courier to send the original documents to MtGox so they can inspect them by hand, and trust that they will return them.

"But I don't want MtGox keeping my passport!"

They probably won't.  And if you came in here and convinced us that they did, we'd shame them for it.

This is what I would do before I would bother with a $90 notary service (that also required me to send my passport somewhere and trust its return).

Horribly irresponsible suggestion is horribly irresponsible. Never let your passport out of your sight, much less trust it to an organization that is notorious for lack of communication.

^this and the fact that any proof of identity document is useless without the actual person being present

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January 21, 2012, 05:29:24 PM
 #33

Here is just an off-the-wall idea: if you're legit, why don't you just use an overnight courier to send the original documents to MtGox so they can inspect them by hand, and trust that they will return them.

"But I don't want MtGox keeping my passport!"

They probably won't.  And if you came in here and convinced us that they did, we'd shame them for it.

This is what I would do before I would bother with a $90 notary service (that also required me to send my passport somewhere and trust its return).

Horribly irresponsible suggestion is horribly irresponsible.

Never let your passport out of your sight, much less trust it to an organization that is notorious for lack of communication and explanations for blatant and obvious disregard for customers.

Who cares?  Replacing my passport would cost me $170, maybe twice that if I needed it urgently.  Spending $90 to insure a <2% chance of a $170 loss is throwing good money after bad.

That said, I don't see why if the source of the $220 is known, that it can't just be returned to where it came.  It's $220, not exactly the pinnacle of money laundering.  Anyone at MtGox care to explain what kind of concern would result in a conclusion that $220 can't be returned to its sender?

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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January 21, 2012, 05:36:01 PM
 #34

That said, I don't see why if the source of the $220 is known, that it can't just be returned to where it came.  It's $220, not exactly the pinnacle of money laundering.  Anyone at MtGox care to explain what kind of concern would result in a conclusion that $220 can't be returned to its sender?

That is also what I was wondering. I used Dwolla to put the money into the account and converted it into bitcoins. Nothing else. They could just put the money back where it came from without risk of fraud.
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January 22, 2012, 07:59:37 PM
 #35

That said, I don't see why if the source of the $220 is known, that it can't just be returned to where it came.  It's $220, not exactly the pinnacle of money laundering.

Anyone at MtGox care to explain what kind of concern would result in a conclusion that $220 can't be returned to its sender?

Topping this - regardless of what the answer is, I'd really like to know.  If the answer must be private, then send it to me privately and I will report to the thread if I think the answer is satisfactory.  I appreciate that MtGox is always prompt and courteous to me, but hearing that MtGox is unilaterally keeping people's money (which is what this thread suggests) regardless of the amount is not very faith promoting.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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January 22, 2012, 08:00:17 PM
 #36

That said, I don't see why if the source of the $220 is known, that it can't just be returned to where it came.  It's $220, not exactly the pinnacle of money laundering.

Anyone at MtGox care to explain what kind of concern would result in a conclusion that $220 can't be returned to its sender?

Topping this - regardless of what the answer is, I'd really like to know.

Ditto.

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January 24, 2012, 07:11:31 AM
 #37

After a conversation in IRC, I was essentially told by magicaltux that they believe the Dwolla account that funded the account is likely hacked/compromised and that they are anticipating a chargeback on the funds.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
Matthew N. Wright
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January 24, 2012, 07:15:51 AM
 #38

After a conversation in IRC, I was essentially told by magicaltux that they believe the Dwolla account that funded the account is likely hacked/compromised and that they are anticipating a chargeback on the funds.

I'm pretty sure everyone else assumed so as well. That doesn't explain why sending the money back to Dwolla wouldn't have been much better than just holding it for their own benefit.

If someone hands me a credit card and I believe it to be stolen, I still have to give it back. I can however inform the police and the credit card company. I'd just refund the money, report it to Dwolla, and move on.

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January 24, 2012, 07:19:48 AM
 #39

After a conversation in IRC, I was essentially told by magicaltux that they believe the Dwolla account that funded the account is likely hacked/compromised and that they are anticipating a chargeback on the funds.

I'm pretty sure everyone else assumed so as well. That doesn't explain why sending the money back to Dwolla wouldn't have been much better than just holding it for their own benefit.

If someone hands me a credit card and I believe it to be stolen, I still have to give it back. I can however inform the police and the credit card company. I'd just refund the money, report it to Dwolla, and move on.

He indicated a fear that if he did so, that that wouldn't absolve him of the chargeback liability.  As though he would be sending them $220 of "new money" and still be liable for the original money received.  Seems odd that Dwolla wouldn't have a refund button, such a basic feature.  Dwolla's side of the story (as presented to the OP) would be interesting.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
Matthew N. Wright
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January 24, 2012, 07:35:22 AM
 #40

After a conversation in IRC, I was essentially told by magicaltux that they believe the Dwolla account that funded the account is likely hacked/compromised and that they are anticipating a chargeback on the funds.

I'm pretty sure everyone else assumed so as well. That doesn't explain why sending the money back to Dwolla wouldn't have been much better than just holding it for their own benefit.

If someone hands me a credit card and I believe it to be stolen, I still have to give it back. I can however inform the police and the credit card company. I'd just refund the money, report it to Dwolla, and move on.

He indicated a fear that if he did so, that that wouldn't absolve him of the chargeback liability.  As though he would be sending them $220 of "new money" and still be liable for the original money received.  Seems odd that Dwolla wouldn't have a refund button, such a basic feature.  Dwolla's side of the story (as presented to the OP) would be interesting.

Bureaucracy at its finest.

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