[UNRESOLVED] Betpanda.io SCAM 18.2mBTC

[efialtis]

I`ve also asked them to at least refund the initial deposit - of course the AM says they can only forward messages and it`s not their responsibility but if/when they keep pushing for position/rating, they also have to make sure that everything is handled fairly.

[holydarkness]

Hi, sorry, sorry, yesterday I've got my hand on a contact of the staff I mentioned earlier on this thread, the one that BetPanda assign to handle disputes. We've made initial contact, but I have yet to push any case in their direction as one case from different casino kinda take my time the entire day yesterday [and I have a feeling it'll be today too, thus I'm handling other matters before I address that specific case].

OP... and uhh, overseers, please wait a little while I try to get to that contact and gain some insight? We probably can get this thing back in motion.


Edit: umm... OP, strolling past the three pages of this thread, I don't think you ever made your betpanda account ID known? Do you mind to shoot me a PM with your betpanda user ID, email, or whatever they use to identify their user? I'll very much likely need that to escalate this to my contact so they can see what happened from their side.

[Zwei]

what pisses me off about this is that the player has no way to prove they did nothing wrong. i mean, how exactly do one prove they didn't do "fraud"?

If I see that your e-mail, card or wallet is registered with 10 different sportsbook providers, you're planning the fraud, but I can't tell you that yet, I'll just flag you for the next person who will review you. 

If the Game Provider gives me a list of all your arbitrage bets across those 10 different providers, you did the fraud, but I can't waste my time on telling you that because I have 10000 of similar accounts in my inbox.

but when a player accuses an operator of scamming them or handling things unfairly publicly, i would expect the operator to also publicly address the accusation with some kind of proof, and if the player is really cheating the casino, it should be easy to prove, especially if it's arbitrage like the example you gave.
and imo, it's not really a waste of time when your reputation is at stake.

If the initial deposit wasn't refunded then it's a scam, @Betpanda kindly refund the amount, it's not a large sum and it's not worth the hassle, you can even refund it through the campaign manager.

i called them on this months ago saying that their refund terms are unfair and scammy, they didn't care then, i doubt they will care now. they will simple reply with the player agreed to our terms of service.
they also refer to deposits as orders, which i find weird. probably to dodge some costa rica gambling regulations.

[T1HGO]

Hi, sorry, sorry, yesterday I've got my hand on a contact of the staff I mentioned earlier on this thread, the one that BetPanda assign to handle disputes. We've made initial contact, but I have yet to push any case in their direction as one case from different casino kinda take my time the entire day yesterday [and I have a feeling it'll be today too, thus I'm handling other matters before I address that specific case].

OP... and uhh, overseers, please wait a little while I try to get to that contact and gain some insight? We probably can get this thing back in motion.


Edit: umm... OP, strolling past the three pages of this thread, I don't think you ever made your betpanda account ID known? Do you mind to shoot me a PM with your betpanda user ID, email, or whatever they use to identify their user? I'll very much likely need that to escalate this to my contact so they can see what happened from their side.

Hello. I think i sent you a PM, but i'm not sure if it went through. Let me know if you received it.

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

but when a player accuses an operator of scamming them or handling things unfairly publicly, i would expect the operator to also publicly address the accusation with some kind of proof, and if the player is really cheating the casino, it should be easy to prove, especially if it's arbitrage like the example you gave.
and imo, it's not really a waste of time when your reputation is at stake.

I fully understand your point, but there's just too many scammers per day, and you can't add a headcount to the team that will just deal with scammers, you just block them and move on. Both TrustPilot and this forum aren't big acquisition sources, if there's a negative review no one cares. However, if you start pinging affiliates like Efialtis and AskGamblers and tell them what's happening, then they can cut off the traffic, and that will get their attention.

From my understanding, Betpanda license company is located in Costa Rica, but they are licensed under Anjouan, and the terms of use that they have are abiding by the Anjouan framework

But that Terms of Use are complete bullshit and don't fit into any consumer rights laws.

If this is a common tactic and happens constantly, I would think about replicating what we did for HunnyFinance here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=3410892b

[holydarkness]

[...]
i called them on this months ago saying that their refund terms are unfair and scammy, they didn't care then, i doubt they will care now. they will simple reply with the player agreed to our terms of service.
[...]

I am in contact with their staff, the connection is still unsteady as we're still at the greeting phase, but let's give them the benefits of doubt and see if they'll clean their reputation here and we can sort every cases through my communication with the said contact, shall we? For the time being it'll be nice to stop discouraging them from engaging by doubting their intent.

Hello. I think i sent you a PM, but i'm not sure if it went through. Let me know if you received it.

I don't. Please resend, I'll need that to reach my contact and test how good is their performance at tackling issues.

[T1HGO]

@holydarkness I think this time it worked. Confirm you received my PM.

[Zwei]

From my understanding, Betpanda license company is located in Costa Rica, but they are licensed under Anjouan, and the terms of use that they have are abiding by the Anjouan framework

i know they are based in Costa Rica and their company Star Bright Media SRL does have a License from Anjouan (ALSI-202408063-FI3).
but i could not find betpanda domain in the official Anjouan gaming license register: https://anjouangaming.com/license-register/ only the sister casino Casinopunkz is there.

they also don't have any license info or a validator link on the betpanda website, which i think is a requirement if you have an Anjouan license, but i'm not sure.
to me, it looks like they are running betpanda without a license.

But that Terms of Use are complete bullshit and don't fit into any consumer rights laws.

i'm glad we agree on that especially since your words carry more weight as you were once a casino operator and you know the ins and outs better than anyone else here.

I am in contact with their staff, the connection is still unsteady as we're still at the greeting phase, but let's give them the benefits of doubt and see if they'll clean their reputation here and we can sort every cases through my communication with the said contact, shall we? For the time being it'll be nice to stop discouraging them from engaging by doubting their intent.

sure, i'll let you do your magic since your approach is better to try solving this.
i sincerely hope you can convince them to start doing the right thing.

[holydarkness]

@holydarkness I think this time it worked. Confirm you received my PM.

Hi, sorry for delayed response. Short answer: yes

Long answer: I called it a day early last Saturday as I have a full busy day on Sunday, I've read your PM with email and promptly send to my BetPanda contact. Sunday, I can only return to the forum with so little energy left to update my long overdue list [if I didn't do it yesterday, it'll only be able to be done next week, and I have to prioritize before my eyes forced itself shut].

As I am yet to hear back from my contact, I believe they're on the weekend too. I'll nudge them again later today if they're still didn't give any update.

[T1HGO]

@holydarkness I think this time it worked. Confirm you received my PM.

Hi, sorry for delayed response. Short answer: yes

Long answer: I called it a day early last Saturday as I have a full busy day on Sunday, I've read your PM with email and promptly send to my BetPanda contact. Sunday, I can only return to the forum with so little energy left to update my long overdue list [if I didn't do it yesterday, it'll only be able to be done next week, and I have to prioritize before my eyes forced itself shut].

As I am yet to hear back from my contact, I believe they're on the weekend too. I'll nudge them again later today if they're still didn't give any update.

It's okay man. I really appreciate the attention and effort you're putting into this case. Thanks.

[bettingfede1998]

@holydarkness I think this time it worked. Confirm you received my PM.

Hi, sorry for delayed response. Short answer: yes

Long answer: I called it a day early last Saturday as I have a full busy day on Sunday, I've read your PM with email and promptly send to my BetPanda contact. Sunday, I can only return to the forum with so little energy left to update my long overdue list [if I didn't do it yesterday, it'll only be able to be done next week, and I have to prioritize before my eyes forced itself shut].

As I am yet to hear back from my contact, I believe they're on the weekend too. I'll nudge them again later today if they're still didn't give any update.

Hi, can i send a private message writing my email for Betpanda?
I had a similar problem, if you remember i opened a topic (here) and did everything i could.
Thank you.

[Betpanda]

I am still waiting, for mister @Betpanda representative to get out of his scamcave and adress some of the facts i have exposed.

Why am i only getting "flagged" by betby, at betpanda.io but not in any other casino that also has betby as a provider?

Why are you asking your players for documents, after the players are already banned for "breaking ToS". If you claim, and are sure that the player broke ToS, then what the hell do you want documents for? Ban first, ask later? Sure.

And finally, adress directly what is so wrong with my bets, for you to claim "As you can see, the betting techniques which you used breach the above and as a result, the funds were retained. What the events or the bets were doesnt matter, the fashion in which the bets were placed, does." Betting techniques. lol.

I already know, 2 options will happen after asking this questions:
1 - You don't have any arguments or facts to counter my questions, because they do not exist. I have backed all my accusations with proof.
2 - You come here and drop another copy/paste with the most vague shit possible.

I showed proof in all of my claims, you can't do the same. Just admit you're a scam site.

Happy to answer the questions as requested.

We do not know why Betby is only flagging you on our site, this is probably due to your betting behaviour but we are not in a position to speak for Betby or for other operators.

It is within our Terms & Conditions to request KYC whenever so needed, we cannot disclose why have done so in this case.

We have given you all the information which we can give you, as we do not receive further details from Betby. This is all the available information, as we mentioned. If we had more information, we would happily share it, but we do not.

We would also like to reiterate that all of this is information comes from Betby, we do not initiate such investigations and all of these investigations are carried out by them. Hence, we can confirm that we are not a "scam site" as falsely claimed above.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

I am still waiting, for mister @Betpanda representative to get out of his scamcave and adress some of the facts i have exposed.

Why am i only getting "flagged" by betby, at betpanda.io but not in any other casino that also has betby as a provider?

Why are you asking your players for documents, after the players are already banned for "breaking ToS". If you claim, and are sure that the player broke ToS, then what the hell do you want documents for? Ban first, ask later? Sure.

And finally, adress directly what is so wrong with my bets, for you to claim "As you can see, the betting techniques which you used breach the above and as a result, the funds were retained. What the events or the bets were doesnt matter, the fashion in which the bets were placed, does." Betting techniques. lol.

I already know, 2 options will happen after asking this questions:
1 - You don't have any arguments or facts to counter my questions, because they do not exist. I have backed all my accusations with proof.
2 - You come here and drop another copy/paste with the most vague shit possible.

I showed proof in all of my claims, you can't do the same. Just admit you're a scam site.

Happy to answer the questions as requested.

We do not know why Betby is only flagging you on our site, this is probably due to your betting behaviour but we are not in a position to speak for Betby or for other operators.

It is within our Terms & Conditions to request KYC whenever so needed, we cannot disclose why have done so in this case.

We have given you all the information which we can give you, as we do not receive further details from Betby. This is all the available information, as we mentioned. If we had more information, we would happily share it, but we do not.

We would also like to reiterate that all of this is information comes from Betby, we do not initiate such investigations and all of these investigations are carried out by them. Hence, we can confirm that we are not a "scam site" as falsely claimed above.

Sounds a bit like taking the easy way out and blaming someone else. The player made and account with Betpanda, he also deposited at Betpanda. You people took his money, not betby. It is actually ridiculous blaming the odds provider for this.
Keep this nonsense going and you will find yourself collecting some negative feed back which at this point and these useless replies from your side might be the right thing to do.

[bettingfede1998]

As I have already done myself, I strongly encourage all users who have had their funds unfairly confiscated by Betpanda to contact Betby (here), their odds provider, directly.

Betpanda keeps blaming Betby for everything, claiming they are not responsible and that the decision came from Betby (they even said this publicly, as you can see here)

The more people speak up, the harder it will be to cover this up.

Losing a bet is one thing—having your deposit confiscated without any proof and your account closed like you're a criminal is something entirely different.

[holydarkness]

[...]
Sounds a bit like taking the easy way out and blaming someone else. The player made and account with Betpanda, he also deposited at Betpanda. You people took his money, not betby. It is actually ridiculous blaming the odds provider for this.
Keep this nonsense going and you will find yourself collecting some negative feed back which at this point and these useless replies from your side might be the right thing to do.

I might be wrong here as I have an unfinished discussion with other forum member regarding what happen when a provider asked for assets to be frozen. The member insisted that it's up to the casino to pay or not. But IIRC, an explanation given by a contact of mine [I forgot which casino and which contact is this] basically tell me that yes, there are cases where casino paid despite the provider asked for investigation and confiscate the fund. But it's because they're paying from their own pocket. They still have to pay the provider what they owe the provider, as they simply a "middleman".


OP, don't want to be rude, but I'm too lazy to re-read the whole thread to find the info I'm looking for, so I'll just ask: what casinos are these and do you mind to shoot me your ID from these casinos? If they're happen to be the ones whose in contact with me, I'll try to see if they're willing to let me into a little secret, and if they ever get a warning from the provider [thus, basically the accounts are ticking bomb].

[Betpanda]

Sounds a bit like taking the easy way out and blaming someone else. The player made and account with Betpanda, he also deposited at Betpanda. You people took his money, not betby. It is actually ridiculous blaming the odds provider for this.

Betpanda keeps blaming Betby for everything, claiming they are not responsible and that the decision came from Betby (they even said this publicly, as you can see here)

The more people speak up, the harder it will be to cover this up.

Losing a bet is one thing—having your deposit confiscated without any proof and your account closed like you're a criminal is something entirely different.

The reason why we keep mentioning that these investigations and decisions are done by them is simple: they are. We don't initiate investigations on players.

They inform us when players have engaged in suspicious activity and we then take the necessary action as per the Terms & Conditions of our services.

So we are not "blaming" anyone, we are simply explaining how the chain of information works in these cases.

However, we are reviewing the process and how these cases are handled, so there will be changes into how these situations are dealt with in the future.

[T1HGO]

I am still waiting, for mister @Betpanda representative to get out of his scamcave and adress some of the facts i have exposed.

Why am i only getting "flagged" by betby, at betpanda.io but not in any other casino that also has betby as a provider?

Why are you asking your players for documents, after the players are already banned for "breaking ToS". If you claim, and are sure that the player broke ToS, then what the hell do you want documents for? Ban first, ask later? Sure.

And finally, adress directly what is so wrong with my bets, for you to claim "As you can see, the betting techniques which you used breach the above and as a result, the funds were retained. What the events or the bets were doesnt matter, the fashion in which the bets were placed, does." Betting techniques. lol.

I already know, 2 options will happen after asking this questions:
1 - You don't have any arguments or facts to counter my questions, because they do not exist. I have backed all my accusations with proof.
2 - You come here and drop another copy/paste with the most vague shit possible.

I showed proof in all of my claims, you can't do the same. Just admit you're a scam site.

Happy to answer the questions as requested.

We do not know why Betby is only flagging you on our site, this is probably due to your betting behaviour but we are not in a position to speak for Betby or for other operators.

It is within our Terms & Conditions to request KYC whenever so needed, we cannot disclose why have done so in this case.

We have given you all the information which we can give you, as we do not receive further details from Betby. This is all the available information, as we mentioned. If we had more information, we would happily share it, but we do not.

We would also like to reiterate that all of this is information comes from Betby, we do not initiate such investigations and all of these investigations are carried out by them. Hence, we can confirm that we are not a "scam site" as falsely claimed above.

So, no one knows. I don't know, you don't know. All we know is 18.2mbtc slipped into your pockets.
So, you don't know why betby flagged me, but you say "this is probably due to your betting behaviour". Well, don't mind me, feel free to share with the class my betting activity at betpanda. Unfortunately i can't do it because you decided to ban me for no apparent reason. Everyone will see it's the same as the screenshots i posted a few days ago. High tier Dota 2 betting.

I still have hope you will do the right thing. Not only the deposit but also my winnings, which were won fair and square.

[...]
Sounds a bit like taking the easy way out and blaming someone else. The player made and account with Betpanda, he also deposited at Betpanda. You people took his money, not betby. It is actually ridiculous blaming the odds provider for this.
Keep this nonsense going and you will find yourself collecting some negative feed back which at this point and these useless replies from your side might be the right thing to do.

I might be wrong here as I have an unfinished discussion with other forum member regarding what happen when a provider asked for assets to be frozen. The member insisted that it's up to the casino to pay or not. But IIRC, an explanation given by a contact of mine [I forgot which casino and which contact is this] basically tell me that yes, there are cases where casino paid despite the provider asked for investigation and confiscate the fund. But it's because they're paying from their own pocket. They still have to pay the provider what they owe the provider, as they simply a "middleman".


OP, don't want to be rude, but I'm too lazy to re-read the whole thread to find the info I'm looking for, so I'll just ask: what casinos are these and do you mind to shoot me your ID from these casinos? If they're happen to be the ones whose in contact with me, I'll try to see if they're willing to let me into a little secret, and if they ever get a warning from the provider [thus, basically the accounts are ticking bomb].

I'm sending you a PM with the requested information.

[DGUDGUDGU]

The reason why we keep mentioning that these investigations and decisions are done by them is simple: they are. We don't initiate investigations on players.

They inform us when players have engaged in suspicious activity and we then take the necessary action as per the Terms & Conditions of our services.

So we are not "blaming" anyone, we are simply explaining how the chain of information works in these cases.

However, we are reviewing the process and how these cases are handled, so there will be changes into how these situations are dealt with in the future.

You are so disingenuous in your wording it's actually painful to read.

Betby DOES flag sharp/arb accounts and their traders give notes on them, this is not a problem it's standard.

However, you are the ones with insane Terms & Conditions that is STEALING customer funds and that is NOT an industry standard.

If betby sent the same message to sites like: 500.casino, roobet, luckyblock (big industry sites) they would not make the decision to steal funds.

"We would also like to reiterate that all of this is information comes from Betby, we do not initiate such investigations and all of these investigations are carried out by them"

The way you worded this makes it seem like betby is partly responsible when they're not, all other sites using their odds do not pocket the sharp funds, stop being disingenuous.

[bettingfede1998]

Betpanda keeps blaming Betby for everything, claiming they are not responsible and that the decision came from Betby (they even said this publicly, as you can see here)

The more people speak up, the harder it will be to cover this up.

Losing a bet is one thing—having your deposit confiscated without any proof and your account closed like you're a criminal is something entirely different.

The reason why we keep mentioning that these investigations and decisions are done by them is simple: they are. We don't initiate investigations on players.

They inform us when players have engaged in suspicious activity and we then take the necessary action as per the Terms & Conditions of our services.

So we are not "blaming" anyone, we are simply explaining how the chain of information works in these cases.

However, we are reviewing the process and how these cases are handled, so there will be changes into how these situations are dealt with in the future.

I'm glad to hear that you're reviewing your internal processes. That’s a positive step.

Because from what you’ve stated yourselves, it seems like your own odds provider is seriously damaging your reputation. I strongly encourage you to align your practices with those of more reputable and transparent bookmakers in the industry.

I also hope that this review will be applied retroactively, and that you'll reconsider my case by carefully revisiting my betting history. I’ve done nothing wrong, and if you truly review it with fairness, you’ll see that I simply placed standard bets on major football leagues, like any regular sports bettor.

To this day, Betpanda is the only bookmaker to have suspended my account and confiscated my funds. I've never experienced anything like this before—because I’ve never done anything suspicious.

All I ask is to get back at least my deposit, which is rightfully mine. I still hope this situation can be resolved fairly.

[DGUDGUDGU]

I'm glad to hear that you're reviewing your internal processes. That’s a positive step.

Because from what you’ve stated yourselves, it seems like your own odds provider is seriously damaging your reputation. I strongly encourage you to align your practices with those of more reputable and transparent bookmakers in the industry.

I also hope that this review will be applied retroactively, and that you'll reconsider my case by carefully revisiting my betting history. I’ve done nothing wrong, and if you truly review it with fairness, you’ll see that I simply placed standard bets on major football leagues, like any regular sports bettor.

To this day, Betpanda is the only bookmaker to have suspended my account and confiscated my funds. I've never experienced anything like this before—because I’ve never done anything suspicious.

All I ask is to get back at least my deposit, which is rightfully mine. I still hope this situation can be resolved fairly.

They are lying by the way, betby only flags players as profitable and their positions as sharp (and then will limit the action of players doing this).

All the blame is on betpanda for having their terms to steal funds from profitable customers, they are just trying to not mention this clearly.

They seem to not understand yet that they are the outlier in the industry, and this will burn their site to the ground.