Sheets of Keys

[MoparMiningLLC]

OP, this just isn't right on so many levels.  While your intent might not be nefarious, my Pops said it best- "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Maybe so, I respect that. I live by many old timers past sayings. Maybe that is true but I stand firm with my decision as a man and as a creator. If everyone here has a bad view regarding these sheets and don’t view them as of any use them disregard them. If you think something nefarious will come of this I’d really like to know how it responsible over their actions.

Do you arrest the guy who sells the gun? Or the guy who shoot someone with the gun?

Your analogy does not match this situation. Once the gun is sold, the guy who sold it cannot use it - only the purchaser can.

In the case of keys, the seller and the purchaser could both use the keys since they both had them and could have documented them - then there is no clear way to know who sweeps funds if funds ever get swept. That sole reason is why no one should use any keys made by another maker. In the case of theft of funds, there needs to be a clear line to who had the keys.

Possible scenarios:

Someone uses your keys to make coins - someone buys that coin. They fund it or it comes funded - either way. then one day their funds disappear. who is the one to blame? the maker? or the purchaser? both saw the keys, both could have copies.

Someone who is "more trusted" than you could buy your keys, make coins, fund them, rip every one off and simply blame you. Who would question them?

To clear things up, my position on these sheets is that they are not to be used for resale. Hence why they will be indexed in a manner that indicates that these keys were keys that may have been exposed to several parties. They are only good keys for that intent.

Good for - Educational purposes
Good for - purely collectable
Good for - (second party only)

Not good for - Re- sale
Not good for - 3 parties, etc.

To be clear Mike Caldwell in some sense did this. So if you have a problem with me doing this you have a problem with the creator.

what your intent was is not the point - they can be used exactly as I described and then used make coins to rip people off and then blame you to discredit you. and your statements previously counter your above statement. You previously said your keys could be used because you are "trusted".


what Mike did was a bit different but yes no one should use those either if keys are exposed to more than one person, no one should use them.

Nothing I have said is invalid - no one should buy your keys, no one should use your keys - and because you are ok with both aspects (you may be saying other wise now but your initial replies stated they could be "trusted") you should also possibly not be trusted either.

I say create a poll asking if keys made by one should first be sold by the maker and if second someone should use them - a simple yes or no. I am pretty sure most if not all will say no to both.

I am not going to comment further. I say it is wrong on every level. I wait to see someone intelligently tell me why it is not wrong.

[Kazkaz27]

OP, this just isn't right on so many levels.  While your intent might not be nefarious, my Pops said it best- "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Maybe so, I respect that. I live by many old timers past sayings. Maybe that is true but I stand firm with my decision as a man and as a creator. If everyone here has a bad view regarding these sheets and don’t view them as of any use them disregard them. If you think something nefarious will come of this I’d really like to know how it responsible over their actions.

Do you arrest the guy who sells the gun? Or the guy who shoot someone with the gun?

Your analogy does not match this situation. Once the gun is sold, the guy who sold it cannot use it - only the purchaser can.

In the case of keys, the seller and the purchaser could both use the keys since they both had them and could have documented them - then there is no clear way to know who sweeps funds if funds ever get swept. That sole reason is why no one should use any keys made by another maker. In the case of theft of funds, there needs to be a clear line to who had the keys.

Possible scenarios:

Someone uses your keys to make coins - someone buys that coin. They fund it or it comes funded - either way. then one day their funds disappear. who is the one to blame? the maker? or the purchaser? both saw the keys, both could have copies.

Someone who is "more trusted" than you could buy your keys, make coins, fund them, rip every one off and simply blame you. Who would question them?

To clear things up, my position on these sheets is that they are not to be used for resale. Hence why they will be indexed in a manner that indicates that these keys were keys that may have been exposed to several parties. They are only good keys for that intent.

Good for - Educational purposes
Good for - purely collectable
Good for - (second party only)

Not good for - Re- sale
Not good for - 3 parties, etc.

To be clear Mike Caldwell in some sense did this. So if you have a problem with me doing this you have a problem with the creator.

what your intent was is not the point - they can be used exactly as I described and then used make coins to rip people off and then blame you to discredit you. and your statements previously counter your above statement. You previously said your keys could be used because you are "trusted".


what Mike did was a bit different but yes no one should use those either if keys are exposed to more than one person, no one should use them.

Nothing I have said is invalid - no one should buy your keys, no one should use your keys - and because you are ok with both aspects (you may be saying other wise now but your initial replies stated they could be "trusted") you should also possibly not be trusted either.

I say create a poll asking if keys made by one should first be sold by the maker and if second someone should use them - a simple yes or no. I am pretty sure most if not all will say no to both.

I am not going to comment further. I say it is wrong on every level. I wait to see someone intelligently tell me why it is not wrong.

Mopar you infer and jump to conclusions throughout our entire discussion. My stance has been the same the entire time. You obviously don’t see the difference between these keys and other keys I generate. If people are to be scammed by these keys it will only be out of their own unawareness or ignorance. None of the blame is on me because once they are no longer in my possession they are no longer my responsibility. They will be marked as such. My built coins hold my merit.

For example if someone pulled a scam using an old CAs key no one would blame Mike!

You can’t truly pull a scam using these keys. Not without a good amount of ignorance involved.

My AI Assistant has this to say,

In favor of the sale and use of indexed and publicly available Bitcoin keys, one could consider the following points:

1. **Transparency and Informed Decision-Making**: The act of indexing and publicizing the keys, along with clear explanations of the associated risks, promotes a culture of transparency. Informed consent is a cornerstone of ethical business practices; by ensuring that potential buyers understand the implications of using these keys, the seller empowers them to make educated decisions.

2. **Innovation and Accessibility**: The sale of indexed keys can be viewed as a form of innovation within the cryptocurrency space. By providing access to physical representations of Bitcoin, the seller is broadening the market and allowing more individuals to engage with cryptocurrency in a tangible way. This accessibility can foster greater interest and participation in the digital currency ecosystem.

3. **Historical and Educational Value**: The keys can serve as educational tools or collectible items, preserving the history of Bitcoin and its evolution. By allowing collectors and enthusiasts to own these keys, the seller contributes to the cultural heritage of cryptocurrency, promoting learning and engagement within the community.

4. **Individual Responsibility**: The argument can be made that users bear the responsibility for their actions and decisions. Just as individuals must exercise caution when purchasing any product or service, those who engage with indexed keys are responsible for understanding their security implications. This principle of personal responsibility is foundational in many aspects of commerce and personal finance.

5. **Market Dynamics and Demand**: If there is a market demand for these indexed keys, it suggests that there are consumers who find value in them. The existence of willing buyers indicates a legitimate market interest, and businesses that cater to this demand are fulfilling a service. This aligns with free-market principles, where supply and demand dictate the viability of products and services.

6. **Precedent in Other Industries**: In other sectors, such as the art or collectibles market, items with a known history or previous ownership can still hold value. Similarly, indexed Bitcoin keys can be perceived as having value despite their exposure to multiple parties. As long as buyers are aware of the context, the transaction can be seen as valid.

7. **Mitigation of Risks**: The seller has taken proactive steps to mitigate potential risks by implementing measures such as tamper-evident packaging and clear communication about the keys’ limitations. This demonstrates a commitment to ethical practices and consumer safety, further legitimizing the sale.

In conclusion, while there are inherent risks and ethical considerations in selling and using indexed Bitcoin keys, a well-structured argument can be made that emphasizes transparency, individual responsibility, innovation, and market demand. By framing the sale as a legitimate opportunity for education and engagement within the cryptocurrency space, one can present a compelling case for why such practices can be deemed acceptable.

[Kazkaz27]

For transparency 🙌

[Kazkaz27]

Here is a Mike Caldwell ‘un-used’ /exposed key/artifact:


This is essentially the same exact thing that I’m offering. Except what I’m offering is this X 1000

When Mike initially sold that item/product it was good. Only after it was exposed and after the initial sale did those keys become compromised.

So to be clear, I am offering keys that are not compromised, but the second that they are sold and opened they become compromised by the second party. Same as Mike.

Only a fool would continuously suggest these are anything more & and the risks surrounding these keys is quite clear.

[bitbollo]

If you're selling these sheets as "fun sheets" likewise something to expose ok its funny.
But there is no sense that someone should buy the keys from another person!
not your keys, not your coins.
Even if you're in good faith, this doesn't mean anything.
This is the BASE of bitcoin: you don't need to trust anything but just the software /protocol.
Here some one should trust another thing that is not bitcoin but is your setup and even if you're honest and so on.
be your own bank = No one should ever buy or sell any key!

[Kazkaz27]

If you're selling these sheets as "fun sheets" likewise something to expose ok its funny.
But there is no sense that someone should buy the keys from another person!
not your keys, not your coins.
Even if you're in good faith, this doesn't mean anything.
This is the BASE of bitcoin: you don't need to trust anything but just the software /protocol.
Here some one should trust another thing that is not bitcoin but is your setup and even if you're honest and so on.
be your own bank = No one should ever buy or sell any key!

I agree on a sentiment basis as would any Bitcoiner really.

I must say this: the amount of effort and work that it takes to actually generate a full sheet of keys, front and back like that, is quite difficult. So if a person trusts VIP products and the keys generated by me, then essentially they could buy these keys and use them for their own personal reasons without any issues. At this point, there is still not a secound-party risk, only one parties so far. Reselling them after the Initial sale would make them different then what they are now because then the keys would be exposed to more than one party, leading to a second and possibly third party. Basically, if there were any issues with those keys, pinpointing who was to blame would be a challenge; therefore, any keys that are exposed to more than one party shouldn’t be trusted for resale. Hence, they are to be publicized to help prevent any discrepancies. Once exposed to a 2nd party, I’d call them “fun sheets/keys”. Currently, only one party has seen them. (That would be me, so I can’t call them that yet😅.) So until sold and opened, they are what I indicated many times.

Here’s something that many of you guys probably don’t know unless you’re a creator yourself and have made sheets like this. You will never remember the private keys that you have generated unless you save them on a computer or study very hard to remembering 1. When I look at the sheets of keys, they tend to blur together and nothing is remembered.

[LoyceV]

official VIP Bitcoin addresses.

Can you explain what an "official VIP Bitcoin address" is? How does it differ from a "regular" Bitcoin address?

My keys are legit & trusted.

My keys are legit and I trust them. That doesn't mean anyone else should trust my keys.

there are a million reasons why no one should use these and not a single one why they should even remotely consider it.

The same can be said about every funded Bitcoin collectible, and yet, here we have an entire forum board for it.

Also I will give you 100 bucks if you generate keys like that on a sheet of paper🙌😆

I can probably create something like this in an hour with Bitcoin Core, qrencode and ImageMagick. It may take some fiddling to create a printable PDF with both sides printed on the correct position. The next sheet would take me 10 seconds.

If I need to transfer data I use a cleaned usb stick. Its only purpose is to take the list of public keys generated off the offline computer and so I can publicate them. Everything sensitive is wiped before that exchange.

After reading this I have one question: Are keys ever stored on the hard drive (this could even be unintended in a swap file, or while creating and storing QR-code images before printing), and if so, how do you wipe them to ensure no file recovery will ever be able to find them?

no key that has been seen by more than one person is a "good" key. not from you and not from anyone.

That doesn't only apply to keys seen by "more than one person", it applies to any key not created by yourself. Not your keys, not your coins. I've seen far too many collectibles get scammed this way.

as a maker - I can state that no one should use keys that were not generated by them.

But anyone who buys funded coins from a coin maker will do exactly that....

should anyone use another makers keys? simple yes or no.

I can only speak for myself, not for "anyone", but I don't trust keys I didn't create. That's one of the reasons I'm not into collectibles.

@bitcoiner24h: have an avatar

[MoparMiningLLC]

there are a million reasons why no one should use these and not a single one why they should even remotely consider it.

The same can be said about every funded Bitcoin collectible, and yet, here we have an entire forum board for it.

no key that has been seen by more than one person is a "good" key. not from you and not from anyone.

That doesn't only apply to keys seen by "more than one person", it applies to any key not created by yourself. Not your keys, not your coins. I've seen far too many collectibles get scammed this way.

as a maker - I can state that no one should use keys that were not generated by them.

But anyone who buys funded coins from a coin maker will do exactly that....

should anyone use another makers keys? simple yes or no.

I can only speak for myself, not for "anyone", but I don't trust keys I didn't create. That's one of the reasons I'm not into collectibles.

my point exactly - the difference in buying a built collectible is that you know who "saw" the key. using a key sold by a maker means that at least 2 have "saw" the key - if funds are stolen, who gets held accountable? No key should be sold or used - as a collectible or learning - maybe but then you do one or two to a buyer - kaz here is pushing 1000 of them - no one buy's 1000 keys as a collectible or to learn - they buy them to use them. The fact that kaz repeatedly has said that the buyer could use the keys and be safe is why I dont trust him. And then later Kaz will contradict that and say his keys should not be used as they are for education/collection etc

He also compares himself to Mike Caldwell a million times - they are not the same and there can be no comparison between them.

appreciate your insight LoyceV

[Kazkaz27]

there are a million reasons why no one should use these and not a single one why they should even remotely consider it.

The same can be said about every funded Bitcoin collectible, and yet, here we have an entire forum board for it.

no key that has been seen by more than one person is a "good" key. not from you and not from anyone.

That doesn't only apply to keys seen by "more than one person", it applies to any key not created by yourself. Not your keys, not your coins. I've seen far too many collectibles get scammed this way.

as a maker - I can state that no one should use keys that were not generated by them.

But anyone who buys funded coins from a coin maker will do exactly that....

should anyone use another makers keys? simple yes or no.

I can only speak for myself, not for "anyone", but I don't trust keys I didn't create. That's one of the reasons I'm not into collectibles.

my point exactly - the difference in buying a built collectible is that you know who "saw" the key. using a key sold by a maker means that at least 2 have "saw" the key - if funds are stolen, who gets held accountable? No key should be sold or used - as a collectible or learning - maybe but then you do one or two to a buyer - kaz here is pushing 1000 of them - no one buy's 1000 keys as a collectible or to learn - they buy them to use them. The fact that kaz repeatedly has said that the buyer could use the keys and be safe is why I dont trust him. And then later Kaz will contradict that and say his keys should not be used as they are for education/collection etc

He also compares himself to Mike Caldwell a million times - they are not the same and there can be no comparison between them.

appreciate your insight LoyceV

My stance never changed the entire time. I made my position clear and I clarified it for your sake Mopar, I even thanked you for the engagement then you gave me a negative trust😅😆

[MoparMiningLLC]

there are a million reasons why no one should use these and not a single one why they should even remotely consider it.

The same can be said about every funded Bitcoin collectible, and yet, here we have an entire forum board for it.

no key that has been seen by more than one person is a "good" key. not from you and not from anyone.

That doesn't only apply to keys seen by "more than one person", it applies to any key not created by yourself. Not your keys, not your coins. I've seen far too many collectibles get scammed this way.

as a maker - I can state that no one should use keys that were not generated by them.

But anyone who buys funded coins from a coin maker will do exactly that....

should anyone use another makers keys? simple yes or no.

I can only speak for myself, not for "anyone", but I don't trust keys I didn't create. That's one of the reasons I'm not into collectibles.

my point exactly - the difference in buying a built collectible is that you know who "saw" the key. using a key sold by a maker means that at least 2 have "saw" the key - if funds are stolen, who gets held accountable? No key should be sold or used - as a collectible or learning - maybe but then you do one or two to a buyer - kaz here is pushing 1000 of them - no one buy's 1000 keys as a collectible or to learn - they buy them to use them. The fact that kaz repeatedly has said that the buyer could use the keys and be safe is why I dont trust him. And then later Kaz will contradict that and say his keys should not be used as they are for education/collection etc

He also compares himself to Mike Caldwell a million times - they are not the same and there can be no comparison between them.

appreciate your insight LoyceV

My stance never changed the entire time. I made my position clear and I clarified it for your sake Mopar, I even thanked you for the engagement then you gave me a negative trust😅😆

to say that they are safe to be used and can be used to saying they are for educational/collectible  are 2 different things. The only thing I have ever said is that they should not be bought to be used - and that is the only point if the buyer is buying hundreds or a thousand keys. You have repeatedly said they could be used and if they were then that user is to blame not you. But the truth is if they are used both are to blame because no one should have bought them to be used and no one should have sold them saying it is ok to use them.

That you see no issue with it and have repeatedly said they are ok to use is why I gave you a neg and said I dont trust you.

Your retaliation in giving me one shows your hypocrisy - also sharing dm's on the forums shows how you went from "thanking me" to calling me "untrustworthy" and "scammy" your behavior reeks of immaturity and is yet another sign of why you should not be trusted. you are reacting and attacking with emotion - not reason or facts.

This will be my last post on the subject. I wanted to thank LoyceV is all but had to comment on your back and forth flip flopping which you continue to do yet deny.

[Kazkaz27]

official VIP Bitcoin addresses.

Can you explain what an "official VIP Bitcoin address" is? How does it differ from a "regular" Bitcoin address?

My keys are legit & trusted.

My keys are legit and I trust them. That doesn't mean anyone else should trust my keys.

there are a million reasons why no one should use these and not a single one why they should even remotely consider it.

The same can be said about every funded Bitcoin collectible, and yet, here we have an entire forum board for it.

Also I will give you 100 bucks if you generate keys like that on a sheet of paper🙌😆

I can probably create something like this in an hour with Bitcoin Core, qrencode and ImageMagick. It may take some fiddling to create a printable PDF with both sides printed on the correct position. The next sheet would take me 10 seconds.

If I need to transfer data I use a cleaned usb stick. Its only purpose is to take the list of public keys generated off the offline computer and so I can publicate them. Everything sensitive is wiped before that exchange.

After reading this I have one question: Are keys ever stored on the hard drive (this could even be unintended in a swap file, or while creating and storing QR-code images before printing), and if so, how do you wipe them to ensure no file recovery will ever be able to find them?

no key that has been seen by more than one person is a "good" key. not from you and not from anyone.

That doesn't only apply to keys seen by "more than one person", it applies to any key not created by yourself. Not your keys, not your coins. I've seen far too many collectibles get scammed this way.

as a maker - I can state that no one should use keys that were not generated by them.

But anyone who buys funded coins from a coin maker will do exactly that....

should anyone use another makers keys? simple yes or no.

I can only speak for myself, not for "anyone", but I don't trust keys I didn't create. That's one of the reasons I'm not into collectibles.

@bitcoiner24h: have an avatar

Hello, LoyceV

Thank you for adding to the conversation. You have some great mediator skills.

I’ll do my best to answer the  questions you have for me.

I can’t say there is anything overly special about Offical VIP keys, other than they are vanity keys (1VIP firstbits) officially created be me. That’s what they are. Plain and simple. The fact that they are all in sequence and aligned and everything else is just part of what makes them special.

As like any physical bitcoin creator my keys have to hold some sort of merit. Otherwise, my coins would not sell. So my keys are trusted by many, no issues have arose nor will they. So ideally as a Bitcoiner you never trust another persons keys, but as a physical bitcoin collector/ enthusiast that sentiment is somewhat different. It’s not so cut and dry/ black & white here even tho some would ideally want to claim it to be.

That $100 is still up for grabs (layout has to be good, keys must align). Maybe you can do it. I don’t doubt that you can. But I’ll tell you, if you do it correctly, securely and make it easy that would make you a much more capable person then most people in regards to this. I still say it’s not easy. I’d love to see someone complete this challenge. I’ve left a few comments like this in different posts of mine in the past. No one ever actually takes me up on the challenge, so I guess something is up with that😅. I’d love to send someone the $100.  🙌

The only data being transferred on and off the USB are the public keys. Having multiple copies of that is nothing I’m too concerned about. The private keys are generated on the desktop along with the QR codes to the public addresses and an index of public keys. The private keys and QR codes are a temp file that’s deleted immediately after they print. The only remaining thing is the indexed public keys associated with that run/print. I just make sure I have a clean/wiped usb stick before I transfer the public key information off the airgapped desktop on to a computer that can publicate the information online. So basically just a safeguard. I am making sure I’m not exchanging anything but the indexed public keys. I haven’t changed how keys should be securely generated or anything. The desktop I am using can’t be connected to the internet, nor will it ever have that ability. If any trace information is being stored deep with in the desktops core memory I haven’t been able to find it. Hypothetically, Only a hacker that had access to my desktop in person would be have a chance and I’d say it’s less than 1% chance of finding/ recovering anything of value.

there are a million reasons why no one should use these and not a single one why they should even remotely consider it.

The same can be said about every funded Bitcoin collectible, and yet, here we have an entire forum board for it.

no key that has been seen by more than one person is a "good" key. not from you and not from anyone.

That doesn't only apply to keys seen by "more than one person", it applies to any key not created by yourself. Not your keys, not your coins. I've seen far too many collectibles get scammed this way.

as a maker - I can state that no one should use keys that were not generated by them.

But anyone who buys funded coins from a coin maker will do exactly that....

should anyone use another makers keys? simple yes or no.

I can only speak for myself, not for "anyone", but I don't trust keys I didn't create. That's one of the reasons I'm not into collectibles.

my point exactly - the difference in buying a built collectible is that you know who "saw" the key. using a key sold by a maker means that at least 2 have "saw" the key - if funds are stolen, who gets held accountable? No key should be sold or used - as a collectible or learning - maybe but then you do one or two to a buyer - kaz here is pushing 1000 of them - no one buy's 1000 keys as a collectible or to learn - they buy them to use them. The fact that kaz repeatedly has said that the buyer could use the keys and be safe is why I dont trust him. And then later Kaz will contradict that and say his keys should not be used as they are for education/collection etc

He also compares himself to Mike Caldwell a million times - they are not the same and there can be no comparison between them.

appreciate your insight LoyceV

My stance never changed the entire time. I made my position clear and I clarified it for your sake Mopar, I even thanked you for the engagement then you gave me a negative trust😅😆

to say that they are safe to be used and can be used to saying they are for educational/collectible  are 2 different things. The only thing I have ever said is that they should not be bought to be used - and that is the only point if the buyer is buying hundreds or a thousand keys. You have repeatedly said they could be used and if they were then that user is to blame not you. But the truth is if they are used both are to blame because no one should have bought them to be used and no one should have sold them saying it is ok to use them.

That you see no issue with it and have repeatedly said they are ok to use is why I gave you a neg and said I dont trust you.

Your retaliation in giving me one shows your hypocrisy - also sharing dm's on the forums shows how you went from "thanking me" to calling me "untrustworthy" and "scammy" your behavior reeks of immaturity and is yet another sign of why you should not be trusted. you are reacting and attacking with emotion - not reason or facts.

This will be my last post on the subject. I wanted to thank LoyceV is all but had to comment on your back and forth flip flopping which you continue to do yet deny.

I’ve had nothing but patience with you Mopar. Those are my true feelings. Sorry you don’t like them. I don’t like being nice to a person than being shit on by them right after either 🤷‍♂️

I meant every word I said to you. I even meant it when I said thank you.. haha, I was actually happy and thankful for your input and then you gave me red trust😆

When a person does that makes me think they aren’t as trustworthy, they have a mask on. You have my raw and initial thoughts. My mask is off

I did everything to try and communicate and address concerns here. I have a deep sense you’ve had something against me for a long time and so I feel it was only inevitable you stabbed me with “ due to the user selling keys and suggesting the keys are safe for use, I consider this user a risk to do business with or to buy any items with keys generated by this user.”

The hypocrisy from you Mopar is wild.

Honestly, now I’m okay with it. Makes me more committed and I still thank you.

[LoyceV]

kaz here is pushing 1000 of them - no one buy's 1000 keys as a collectible or to learn - they buy them to use them. The fact that kaz repeatedly has said that the buyer could use the keys and be safe is why I dont trust him. And then later Kaz will contradict that and say his keys should not be used as they are for education/collection etc

For education, we have Testnet. Since I liked Kazkaz27's "100 bucks challenge", I'll create one for Testnet. I'll even fund it, and share my script to recreate it.

That $100 is still up for grabs (layout has to be good, keys must align). Maybe you can do it. I don’t doubt that you can. But I’ll tell you, if you do it correctly, securely and make it easy that would make you a much more capable person then most people in regards to this. I still say it’s not easy. I’d love to see someone complete this challenge. I’ve left a few comments like this in different posts of mine in the past. No one ever actually takes me up on the challenge, so I guess something is up with that😅. I’d love to send someone the $100.  🙌

Challenge accepted Is loyce.club/other/print_two-sided.pdf what you're looking for?
I'll create a topic on how I did it tomorrow. It did take me more than an hour though, but I don't mind figuring out again how to do all this from the command-line.
The QR-codes I created are for testnet4 (and all addresses on the first page have 1 testnet coin each).

The private keys and QR codes are a temp file that’s deleted immediately after they print.

This may be flawed: file recovery may still be able to find back the files, and the printer spooler may also leave temporary files (that can be recovered after they're deleted). So if someone would get their hands on your airgapped computer, they may be looking at a goldmine.

If any trace information is being stored deep with in the desktops core memory I haven’t been able to find it. Hypothetically, Only a hacker that had access to my desktop in person would be have a chance and I’d say it’s less than 1% chance of finding/ recovering anything of value.

Note that that "hacker" could also be future you, when you're dying for money and desperate enough to pull a yogg. I'm not saying that's what going to happen, but it's better to be absolutely sure there's nothing to recover. Deleting files isn't enough, and shred doesn't work properly on SSDs.
I prefer to use RAM only for private keys, and print from a live DVD system.

[dkbit98]

Imagine calling this collectibles item 
I honestly doubt anyone would buy anything ^{(including his paper wallets)} from OP especially his ''VIP ₿ITCOINS'' whatever that means.
We already have forum member who sold collectible items with keys, and he later scammed people because of his addiction.
This VIP Bit-Coiner aka Zachery Abraham looks very suspicious to me, it's very risky what he is doing, and I wouldn't trust him.


https://bitcoiner.bio/VIP

Very convenient:

- Our services are provided on an "as is" and "as available" basis without any warranties of any kind, either express or implied. We do not guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information on our site.
- We are not responsible for any direct, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages arising from your use of our services.

https://physicalbitcoins.vip/terms-and-conditions

[Kazkaz27]

I honestly doubt anyone would buy anything ^{(including his paper wallets)} from OP especially his ''VIP ₿ITCOINS'' whatever that means.
We already have forum member who sold collectible items with keys, and he later scammed people because of his addiction.
This VIP Bit-Coiner aka Zachery Abraham looks very suspicious to me, it's very risky what he is doing, and I wouldn't trust him.


https://bitcoiner.bio/VIP

Very convenient:

- Our services are provided on an "as is" and "as available" basis without any warranties of any kind, either express or implied. We do not guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information on our site.
- We are not responsible for any direct, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages arising from your use of our services.

https://physicalbitcoins.vip/terms-and-conditions

I want you to know that defamation is a crime. So before you get carried away have evidence.

[dkbit98]

I want you to know that defamation is a crime. So before you get carried away have evidence.

Evidence about what? That I don't trust you??
All the evidence is already posted with links and everybody knows about other member who scammed people before.
I hope you can understand English language, but you can always hire a professional translator to help you.

[Kazkaz27]

I want you to know that defamation is a crime. So before you get carried away have evidence.

Evidence about what? That I don't trust you??
All the evidence is already posted with links and everybody knows about other member who scammed people before.
I hope you can understand English language, but you can always hire a professional translator to help

What it seems like what you were doing is attempting to discredit me and my reputation. That is much different than just not trusting me.

[LoyceV]

That $100 is still up for grabs (layout has to be good, keys must align). Maybe you can do it. I don’t doubt that you can. But I’ll tell you, if you do it correctly, securely and make it easy that would make you a much more capable person then most people in regards to this. I still say it’s not easy. I’d love to see someone complete this challenge. I’ve left a few comments like this in different posts of mine in the past. No one ever actually takes me up on the challenge, so I guess something is up with that😅. I’d love to send someone the $100.  🙌

Challenge accepted Is loyce.club/other/print_two-sided.pdf what you're looking for?
I'll create a topic on how I did it tomorrow.

Done: How to create Sheets of Keys with QR-codes

[bitcoiner24h]

To contribute something valuable to your process and help eliminate the risk of someone physically stealing the device along with any temporary file containing private keys, i recommend encrypting the hard drive.

As Loycev rightly says (I'll soon pick a profile picture, thanks haha) the ideal approach is to use RAM only for private keys. If you're not doing it that way, at least encrypting the drive adds an important layer of protection.

As an additional security measure, I suggest what I mentioned before: periodically destroying the printer and the device. I understand this involves a cost, but if one day you decide to shut down the project, destroying the entire setup, including the printer, would be a responsible and professional way to leave a solid legacy for your brand, just as a good manufacturer in the space would.

[Kazkaz27]

To contribute something valuable to your process and help eliminate the risk of someone physically stealing the device along with any temporary file containing private keys, i recommend encrypting the hard drive.

As Loycev rightly says (I'll soon pick a profile picture, thanks haha) the ideal approach is to use RAM only for private keys. If you're not doing it that way, at least encrypting the drive adds an important layer of protection.

As an additional security measure, I suggest what I mentioned before: periodically destroying the printer and the device. I understand this involves a cost, but if one day you decide to shut down the project, destroying the entire setup, including the printer, would be a responsible and professional way to leave a solid legacy for your brand, just as a good manufacturer in the space would.

I need some more Smerit, lol 😅. I want to merit your post.

Thank you, bitcoiner24h.

Your thinking is on point. 💯 I’m always for having the correct procedures 🙌 to access the hard drive requires a password.

I agree with you on everything you mention. I will be destroying the hardware I use on some sort of periodic basic. Maybe I’ll be able to figure a way to do this cheaply. Certainly if I were ever to retire from this all components used in the process  would be fully destroyed.

[Kazkaz27]

I have a question to ask members:

But first I have to showcase my examples:




These two images showcase keys secured by tamper-evident holograms.

What sets them apart?

Not much, actually. The first image displays a complete sheet (255 addresses) containing both public and private addresses, all safeguarded by tamper-evident holographic stickers. In contrast, the second image focuses on just one public and one private key, also protected by tamper-evident holographic stickers, though on a smaller scale.

Keys are logged and made publicly available. Sheets of keys will be indexed as not intended for resale and should not be trusted by third parties, serving as a safeguard. Consequently, these keys will be considered public knowledge and should not be regarded as genuine first-hand keys from me once the seal is broken. If a secound party breaks the seal and has view over private keys the sheet will no longer hold VIP status.

If this is done properly *^ something as showcased here *^ then what is the difference between selling 1 key and 1000?

My real question is what’s the true difference? - Once a hologram is pealed and keys are revealed to a secound party everyone here knows and is aware how to treat them.

That being said Is there a more secure way of doing this other than just saying it’s forbidden?

(This example could improve, keys could be framed and sealed tamper evident - beautifully) - I will do this🙌