XYES.COM SCAM ( UPD they returned the winnings)

[nutildah]

OP I will ask you again, Stay away of this user, He is making stories and giving hints to the casino at the same time, Try to not share any details with him, his history is fully explained in my thread you can check it, all with the evidences how he helped Duckdice.io representative and how he changed hi statements for the sake of a scammer site. He cant deny that he hasn't changed his statements. Now he is picking point for the casino if you can understand.  

Your case was one of the most absurd cases I've heard: you claimed a dice site was rigged, waited a year after you stopped playing there to make the complaint, and then you presented no evidence to support your case. Holydarkness did his best to address the situation, and it quickly became apparent nobody could help you. I don't understand your obsession with him, and why you're still here at all, frankly.

HD is one of the only people here who takes the initiative to go out of their way to help players. He doesn't have to do it, and sometimes he really does help players. But y'all keep attacking him like he's the devil. Ridiculous levels of entitlement here.

[Rating Place]

I'm not attacking Holydarkness as if he's the devil. My problem is that he's making things up in the two cases. He's saying that the odds provider has proof of bets on both sides. They don't have proof. He added many rules that XBet never posted such as CLV. He said XYes had an outdated license when they never had a license.

[holydarkness]

OP, focus on me.

This is my latest proposal [#99] to see the end of this case. My attempt to deescalate matters. As what I always do. If I may repeat and make it easier:



1. They will void your supposed arb-winnning, amounted 208.03
2. They will honor your legitimate winning, amounted 733.47
3. If I recall correctly, they've return your principal of 410
4. Thus, the amount payable to you is 323.47

Do you accept this?

If you do, I'll try to talk them into it. I can't guarantee they'll accept, but I'll try and give my best. Otherwise, find other who want to mediate "bridge".

I do not agree with the accusations of arbitration, as I did not do this. I insist on full payment of the winnings and then I will not have any questions to the casino, until they pay, they will be scammers. I risked my money completely on sports betting, this is money I fully deserved that the casino just decided not to pay me

Noted. You want full payment of the rest of the fund, that'll be...531.5 USD. I can't promise you much that the casino will comply to this, but I'll send the counter-offer.

Might worth mentioning, for public information, the casino settling not because they're wrongly accuse the player or that the arbitrage accusation doesn't exist. It's still there. They just want to show a gesture of good will as a new casino on the forum, by listening to what the forum demanded. And to stay in the fair line, I reached one very prominent member of the forum and one representative of a very big casino on this forum [the compliance department, if I have to be precise] so I can better understand what is expected and what to expect to be done.

An equilibrium that I can draw from asking these two parties separately is that to return the deposit and credit the winnings that weren't arbed [if not fully]. Thus, above quoted numbers.

Although... the other alternative that is on the table is also to return the stake from the arbed betting, thus 418 USD. I will still propose the number above [531.5], but I can't promise that they'll say yes. And suppose the casino will not go and meet you fully at your end, will you step a bit to the middle and meet them at that number?


cc: Woodie, in progress

[Flexie80]

@holydarkness this is not about a proof that a warning was sent from Betby to XYes, this is about proof that there was arbitrage betting. For that you would need to have 2 bet slips, both with comparable stakes on the opposite outcomes of the same event. This is not do-able on the same bookmaker (because they have a bookie margin that makes it impossible to arb within the same book) so the 2nd betting slip would have to be from another book (for example Pinnacle) and it would be impossible for you nor XYes to have obtained this.

The problem here is, that's the exact same side of the coin. It's the cause and effect instead of two separate matters. Speaking in general, the provider sent their flag to casinos about arbing or other violation the providers detect, and the casinos act accordingly to this flag. The casino does not need two bet slips to compare stakes of the opposite outcome of the same events, the provider did this.

All bets were submitted to the providers. They have all the bet slips and the history. And as established, arbing has telltale. Overtime, these telltale became more and more prominent that the provider will notice. Also has been established, both casinos and provider has their own detection algorithms. Sooner or later, the provider will catch up, and after that, it's only matter of time for them to catch the arbing by matching the history of repeated strange numbers across casinos, then a flag raised.

Not to mention that it is not too far fetched to think that it is possible that those providers communicate with each others in terms of crosschecking violators. Everyone hates violators. And enemy of my enemy is my friend, so, is it impossible to think Betby say, "hi Pinnacle, I'm sending you user with this details, can you share me his betslips from date x to y? I'll return with the result."?

And once that flag raised, it follows you everywhere. You can buy time by using different device or email or wallet, but their detection is [as I've witnessed myself] very complex, they'll catch up with you, eventually.

[...]

I thought, since holydarkness has been doing this for a long time, the company should be able to show the proof to him, and he should be able to do it for the player. I initially mentioned LoyceV and holydarkness since they are reputed forum members. But you already accused holydarkness of being a liar. I would be happy to invite nutildah since he has been watching the thread for a while. I would talk to Xyes and send the documents to them to verify. But there is no guarantee you would stop spreading FUD Rating Place. You might say LoyceV or even nutildah lies. So, what is the solution actually? Pay the extortionists?

No need for that. I've come to the precipice of coming to the end of this case. Introducing another prominent member will only force them to face the unnecessary character assasination and mud slinging that you just witnessed for the past two pages of a supposedly headache-free* case. My name is already full of mud from the haters who can't accept a verdict of a case. I can take more.

Not to mention that XYes will have to start from the beginning again. Which... rather likely will then ends up just like what happened here with me. Then we look for another DT, and the circe restarted. As I'm nearing the end of it, might as well endure another mud-slinging and put my thick skin and focus on the player and case at hand and ignore unnecessary noises from statement-chameleon.

*as long as you take favor of the player

I've been waiting here for more than 3 weeks for proof of my arbitration, will I wait for them or will I listen to strange accusations for the amounts of bets that I placed on sports. Everyone has had enough that xyes casino is simply deceiving everyone, they deceived everyone with their fake license, their fake casino without kyc verification, their fake 800 thousand players. And people with avatar casino are still trying to prove us the opposite? You are already funny, bring your casino here and let them prove my arbitration, if they can't then these accusations are a lie like everything else.

OP, focus on me.

This is my latest proposal [#99] to see the end of this case. My attempt to deescalate matters. As what I always do. If I may repeat and make it easier:



1. They will void your supposed arb-winnning, amounted 208.03
2. They will honor your legitimate winning, amounted 733.47
3. If I recall correctly, they've return your principal of 410
4. Thus, the amount payable to you is 323.47

Do you accept this?

If you do, I'll try to talk them into it. I can't guarantee they'll accept, but I'll try and give my best. Otherwise, find other who want to mediate "bridge".

Hahaha, you have absolutely no idea how sportsbetting works obviously. Pinnacle is an ARB-FRIENDLY bookmaker so they are never ever gonna share user details. They trust their lines enough that anyone is welcome to bet on it without ever getting limited or banned. So surely they are not gonna leak personal data of users to third parties.
Also, how on earth does Betby know if it was Pinnacle that was used as the 2nd book for the arb? It could just as easily have been an asian book, or an exchange, are they really gonna contact them all?
And next to that, most asians and exchanges (and Pinnacle too) are also accessible via betting brokers, where it's even impossible to trace down a bet to a name of the person placing this bet.

Absolutely bullshit what you are suggesting here.

It is very simple: Betby can spot value betting, not arbing.

[holydarkness]

The problem here is, that's the exact same side of the coin. It's the cause and effect instead of two separate matters. Speaking in general, the provider sent their flag to casinos about arbing or other violation the providers detect, and the casinos act accordingly to this flag. The casino does not need two bet slips to compare stakes of the opposite outcome of the same events, the provider did this.

All bets were submitted to the providers. They have all the bet slips and the history. And as established, arbing has telltale. Overtime, these telltale became more and more prominent that the provider will notice. Also has been established, both casinos and provider has their own detection algorithms. Sooner or later, the provider will catch up, and after that, it's only matter of time for them to catch the arbing by matching the history of repeated strange numbers across casinos, then a flag raised.

Not to mention that it is not too far fetched to think that it is possible that those providers communicate with each others in terms of crosschecking violators. Everyone hates violators. And enemy of my enemy is my friend, so, is it impossible to think Betby say, "hi Pinnacle, I'm sending you user with this details, can you share me his betslips from date x to y? I'll return with the result."?

And once that flag raised, it follows you everywhere. You can buy time by using different device or email or wallet, but their detection is [as I've witnessed myself] very complex, they'll catch up with you, eventually.
[...]

Hahaha, you have absolutely no idea how sportsbetting works obviously. Pinnacle is an ARB-FRIENDLY bookmaker so they are never ever gonna share user details. They trust their lines enough that anyone is welcome to bet on it without ever getting limited or banned. So surely they are not gonna leak personal data of users to third parties.
Also, how on earth does Betby know if it was Pinnacle that was used as the 2nd book for the arb? It could just as easily have been an asian book, or an exchange, are they really gonna contact them all?
And next to that, most asians and exchanges (and Pinnacle too) are also accessible via betting brokers, where it's even impossible to trace down a bet to a name of the person placing this bet.

Absolutely bullshit what you are suggesting here.

It is very simple: Betby can spot value betting, not arbing.

You... do aware that the mention of Pinnacle here is a figure of speech and simply for [simple] illustrative purpose and can be replaced by any name of provider, and that the point being proposed here is that providers share data about violators, right? The mention of Betby too, by the way. Not strictly between Betby-Pinnacle, other providers are welcome to be used here.

It's... simple point, really. Not hard to understand. So mentioning and making a ruckus like what you do above just make it looks like you're grasping at straws. An advise: stop.

Because, like it or not, the fact is there: Betby flag the user. Where that data come from? Well, above is my guess. If you have a better guess, feel free to share. The fact remains: the instruction came from Betby, not from XYes, or the other casinos.

Uhh... a better yet advise will be: stop trying to push another narrative. The case is nearing its end, the casino is ready to settle. No need to try another useless maneuver for whatever purpose that is... unless the purpose is to sling mud to me, and if that's the purpose, by all means, continue as you like. Anyway, if it's done right, all will be happy. OP is happy, overseers are happy, the forum is happy, including the local pharmacy near my home as I am buying another strip of ergotamine, they're happy too. Emm... not sure if my wallet is happy.

[Flexie80]

@holydarkness this is not about a proof that a warning was sent from Betby to XYes, this is about proof that there was arbitrage betting. For that you would need to have 2 bet slips, both with comparable stakes on the opposite outcomes of the same event. This is not do-able on the same bookmaker (because they have a bookie margin that makes it impossible to arb within the same book) so the 2nd betting slip would have to be from another book (for example Pinnacle) and it would be impossible for you nor XYes to have obtained this.

The problem here is, that's the exact same side of the coin. It's the cause and effect instead of two separate matters. Speaking in general, the provider sent their flag to casinos about arbing or other violation the providers detect, and the casinos act accordingly to this flag. The casino does not need two bet slips to compare stakes of the opposite outcome of the same events, the provider did this.

All bets were submitted to the providers. They have all the bet slips and the history. And as established, arbing has telltale. Overtime, these telltale became more and more prominent that the provider will notice. Also has been established, both casinos and provider has their own detection algorithms. Sooner or later, the provider will catch up, and after that, it's only matter of time for them to catch the arbing by matching the history of repeated strange numbers across casinos, then a flag raised.

Not to mention that it is not too far fetched to think that it is possible that those providers communicate with each others in terms of crosschecking violators. Everyone hates violators. And enemy of my enemy is my friend, so, is it impossible to think Betby say, "hi Pinnacle, I'm sending you user with this details, can you share me his betslips from date x to y? I'll return with the result."?

And once that flag raised, it follows you everywhere. You can buy time by using different device or email or wallet, but their detection is [as I've witnessed myself] very complex, they'll catch up with you, eventually.

[...]

I thought, since holydarkness has been doing this for a long time, the company should be able to show the proof to him, and he should be able to do it for the player. I initially mentioned LoyceV and holydarkness since they are reputed forum members. But you already accused holydarkness of being a liar. I would be happy to invite nutildah since he has been watching the thread for a while. I would talk to Xyes and send the documents to them to verify. But there is no guarantee you would stop spreading FUD Rating Place. You might say LoyceV or even nutildah lies. So, what is the solution actually? Pay the extortionists?

No need for that. I've come to the precipice of coming to the end of this case. Introducing another prominent member will only force them to face the unnecessary character assasination and mud slinging that you just witnessed for the past two pages of a supposedly headache-free* case. My name is already full of mud from the haters who can't accept a verdict of a case. I can take more.

Not to mention that XYes will have to start from the beginning again. Which... rather likely will then ends up just like what happened here with me. Then we look for another DT, and the circe restarted. As I'm nearing the end of it, might as well endure another mud-slinging and put my thick skin and focus on the player and case at hand and ignore unnecessary noises from statement-chameleon.

*as long as you take favor of the player

I've been waiting here for more than 3 weeks for proof of my arbitration, will I wait for them or will I listen to strange accusations for the amounts of bets that I placed on sports. Everyone has had enough that xyes casino is simply deceiving everyone, they deceived everyone with their fake license, their fake casino without kyc verification, their fake 800 thousand players. And people with avatar casino are still trying to prove us the opposite? You are already funny, bring your casino here and let them prove my arbitration, if they can't then these accusations are a lie like everything else.

OP, focus on me.

This is my latest proposal [#99] to see the end of this case. My attempt to deescalate matters. As what I always do. If I may repeat and make it easier:



1. They will void your supposed arb-winnning, amounted 208.03
2. They will honor your legitimate winning, amounted 733.47
3. If I recall correctly, they've return your principal of 410
4. Thus, the amount payable to you is 323.47

Do you accept this?

If you do, I'll try to talk them into it. I can't guarantee they'll accept, but I'll try and give my best. Otherwise, find other who want to mediate "bridge".

Hahaha, you have absolutely no idea how sportsbetting works obviously. Pinnacle is an ARB-FRIENDLY bookmaker so they are never ever gonna share user details. They trust their lines enough that anyone is welcome to bet on it without ever getting limited or banned. So surely they are not gonna leak personal data of users to third parties.
Also, how on earth does Betby know if it was Pinnacle that was used as the 2nd book for the arb? It could just as easily have been an asian book, or an exchange, are they really gonna contact them all?
And next to that, most asians and exchanges (and Pinnacle too) are also accessible via betting brokers, where it's even impossible to trace down a bet to a name of the person placing this bet.

Absolutely bullshit what you are suggesting here.

It is very simple: Betby can spot value betting, not arbing.

My purpose is not to sling mud at you, my purpose is to teach you a bit of how sportsbetting works. Because from reading your posts I can see you don't know much yet. You probably dealt mostly with casino related cases. I am not saying you are a bad person but I'm saying you judgement is clouded by a lack of understanding of the sportsbetting business.
My last lesson then: Yes, Pinnacle may have been just an example. But with any arb there is a soft and a sharp bookie involved. Betby clearly is the soft side, so the sharp side can be several books: Pinnacle, Exchanges or Asians. They all have in common that they have so much confidence in their lines that they do not limit individually and thus are arb-friendly. There is no cheating involved by betting on those books so they will never give up user data. And even if there was cheating involved they would still not share user data with third parties, but that is just a side note.

You can throw away your idea of another book sharing a bet slip with a name to it. Absolutely impossible.
It is very simple: Betby noticed that all or most bets of the user were on value odds, hence they labelled him a value bettor with +EV bets. This is not forbidden according to XYes terms. And to still be able to confiscate the winnings XYes changed the wording from value to arb. And that is nasty.

Edit: accidentally quoted myself, but this obviously is a response to Holydarkness.

[holydarkness]

My purpose is not to sling mud at you, my purpose is to teach you a bit of how sportsbetting works. Because from reading your posts I can see you don't know much yet. You probably dealt mostly with casino related cases. I am not saying you are a bad person but I'm saying you judgement is clouded by a lack of understanding of the sportsbetting business.
My last lesson then: Yes, Pinnacle may have been just an example. But with any arb there is a soft and a sharp bookie involved. Betby clearly is the soft side, so the sharp side can be several books: Pinnacle, Exchanges or Asians. They all have in common that they have so much confidence in their lines that they do not limit individually and thus are arb-friendly. There is no cheating involved by betting on those books so they will never give up user data. And even if there was cheating involved they would still not share user data with third parties, but that is just a side note.

Thank you, well appreciated. Really.

You can throw away your idea of another book sharing a bet slip with a name to it. Absolutely impossible.
It is very simple: Betby noticed that all or most bets of the user were on value odds, hence they labelled him a value bettor with +EV bets. This is not forbidden according to XYes terms. And to still be able to confiscate the winnings XYes changed the wording from value to arb. And that is nasty.

Edit: accidentally quoted myself, but this obviously is a response to Holydarkness.

Nope, arbs.

Their ruling for this case never change for even once. Not here from their rep's response, not on their reply to the OP [unless OP have other email he didn't show us], not on the direct communication I have with them. Arbitrage bet. Sent by the provider. In that exact words. So, if label come, it's from the provider.

[ziportan]

You can throw away your idea of another book sharing a bet slip with a name to it. Absolutely impossible.
It is very simple: Betby noticed that all or most bets of the user were on value odds, hence they labelled him a value bettor with +EV bets. This is not forbidden according to XYes terms. And to still be able to confiscate the winnings XYes changed the wording from value to arb. And that is nasty.

thats the thing here

in my case, first they accused me of value betting.. but since not 1 casino in the world confiscates winnings for value betting, they changed the narrative to arb which is absolutely not true. now today they decided to turn back to the value betting accusation and winnings are still confiscated though.. this casino and its reps are not honest at all. how many lies and false accusations already in just 2  simple cases which would be solved in like 10 minutes without a hassle

[ziportan]

the accusation to me changed like 3 times already

Hello again!

Here is our official response regarding the case:

📢Official Notice Regarding Account Termination Due to Arbitrage Activity

After a thorough internal investigation, account 79335696, 17711119 have  been identified by our risk control team as engaging in arbitrage betting, which is a clear violation of our platform's fair play policies.
✅Customer's original deposit will be fully refunded.
❌All profits generated through arbitrage tactics will be forfeited, and the account is now permanently suspended.

To ensure transparency and platform integrity, we would like to emphasize:
All related account data and investigative findings will only be shared with Bitcointalk administrators or moderators upon request.
If you are a Bitcointalk moderator and require further details, please DM our official account directly.
We remain committed to maintaining a fair and secure gaming environment for all users.

XYES.Com

Thank you.

and
today its back to basics

i mean its crazy how easily they lie and their dogs attack you for no reason just to discredit you..

 imagine.. value betting is not even illegal on the casino terms and yet they confiscate my winnings and their employee gives me a negative trust for value betting WHICH IS NOT ILLEGAL AND DOESNT REQUIRE A CONFISCATION

[Horsbyname]

This is like, Duckdice.io accused me that I have don't have any account with them and Holydarkness stamped it and asked me to provide proofs, when I provided the proof they accused me that I sent them email for 0.01 btc and blackmailing them, Holydarkness never asked them to prove it, then they accused me that I posted multiple trustpilot reviews and here again Holydarkness asked me to disprove his accusation and I did, they keep accusing me and keep changing narratives but it was all due to holydarkness was coaching the Representative of duckdice.io.

It is the sam tictac holydarkness playing here, casino chamging narratives and not proving any thing.

I will advise you not to listen man, instead kick him out and your issue will be solved easily.

[Rating Place]

@flexie I'm glad that you are here. You know exactly what happened. There was absolutely no proof of arbitrage betting and it was lie after lie. It was value betting. What I didn't like is Holy changing the rules saying that value betting was illegal. God of Thunder (paid by XYes) gave one of them negative trust for value betting. It was a clown show but the player got paid so all is well.

The case should have taken 5 seconds.


I sent this to XYes at the beginning

I’ve been watching your case of accusing two players of arbitrage betting. Looking at the bet slips, they aren’t arbitrage bettors. From my point of view, you should pay apologize, pay these players and move on. Best of luck in the future.

[holydarkness]

@flexie I'm glad that you are here. You know exactly what happened. There was absolutely no proof of arbitrage betting and it was lie after lie. It was value betting. What I didn't like is Holy changing the rules saying that value betting was illegal. God of Thunder gave one of them negative trust for value betting. It was a clown show but the player got paid so all is well.

The case should have taken 5 seconds.


I sent this to XYes at the beginning

I’ve been watching your case of accusing two players of arbitrage betting. Looking at the bet slips, they aren’t arbitrage bettors. From my point of view, you should pay apologize, pay these players and move on. Best of luck in the future.

What I didn't like, is you keep pushing this agenda that I lie, I've politely ask you yesterday, twice, if I count correctly, to perhaps reconsider and retract, that ended up with lengthy discussion [which... surprisingly, this time didn't derail the matter as it's still relatively on topic]. I wrote a long draft following your last post here, that was a revision of an earlier draft, that I later decide not to post [both the earlier draft and the revised draft] as I always strive to deescalate.

But... with all of those "holy lies", "holy change rules", perhaps some things DO need to be addressed and escalated. Below is the draft that I didn't plan to post as I am nearing to deescalation and resolution of the matter. And that post above finally ticked my nerve.

So, here we go Peeps:

Edit: for the record, I do spend my time by lying in bed and do nothing


LMAO, so... Peeps, I deliberately ignore your posts because I want to save you from further humiliating yourself, because I took pity in your attempt to look relevant in this forum, as well as... I deal with fact and statements. Your empty words are waste of time that better allocated to handle this case and other case, or lying in my bed and do nothing. Like really, that's a very much better time spent than addressing you, that I conclude when you bailed on your own words of "I'll bet whatever you want to bet".

But, I look back at the threads and read and realize so many hilarios things that's borderline damaging, or... crazy, depends on the perspective.

Anyway, I think I've tolerate you enough in the past and the last drop of politeness I put in you has been rescinded. Answer and explain the points I marked in bold here, otherwise it'll clearly shows that you twisted my statements to drive certain narrative. And such characteristic... I don't think an owner of a rating page of casinos should have. It's very detrimental behavior. So unaddressed and unexplained, this post will become my reference for my tag.

First, here you are, providing advice about how to evade casino detection, that ultimately could dangerously encourage people to cheat casino ban and limitation. Tell me, because I'm really curious, suppose someone follow that and they're caught, what then? As an owner of a page about casinos rating, how they act fairly and not and their record, you instruct people to cheat the casinos? That's a bit hypocritical, I think. And when the players' got flagged despite the attempt to circumvent the detection, the casino should pay because it's their "first offense"? Or what? Should the players be paid because technically it's their "first"? And otherwise they'll... got a bad rating from you? Because the casino won't let the player get their money, all while the reason it gets confiscated is because the player circumvent limitation, as per your instruction on how-to.

And then here [of which become the reason I unleashed this wall of text from my draft, with edits and addition], you're accusing me that I quote a rule that's not from XYES? And it's from other book? And I added CLV on my own?

What I think is happening is that Holy is getting bad information from reps because he’s misinterpreting a lot. The rules he posted yesterday weren’t from XYes, they were from another book and he added the CLV on his own. I’ve never seen CLV listed at any book.

Some of what he said in the huge post above can be done but it’s not applicable here. It’s as if they searched the whole house for evidence, couldn’t find anything and had to plant something.

It’s the stuff he makes up on his own is what bothers me.

It literally said XYes on it. Want a bigger picture where the logo shown to show that it's indeed a page from XYes ToS? Here:



You can even check the exact wording from the ToS page yourself. I mean, it's still there. Want an archive? Here. And that's me make up things, posting rules that's not from XYes page? And adding CLV on my own? Prove where I add CLV to the rule. Because it's you that bring CLV on the first place. I simply explains [patiently] that the instruction given by Betby on darwstall's case was not CLV or value bet or whatever-else betting. Arbitrage bet.

I'm seriously asking here, like, really serious: are you currently healthy? Mind and body?

Further, for the past three... well, four, all you did was:

1. Confusing two details of cases and insist on it, only much later on realized the mistake after repetitively being explained
2. Falsifying narrative by making statements about rule, that I never made and calling me a liar for it
3. Demands proof that the provider flagged the player and informed the casino, insist it is not possible, if I may
4. And only when the stake is real, namely I call your bluff of knowledge and reputation [and perhaps questions the integrity of your rating, given how could someone give rating to casinos when they don't know the ins and outs of casino? That casino gets instruction from risk team from the provider], when you're finally asked to put money where your mouth are, and I'll show proof that the casino indeed was being informed about arbing by the provier, you shamelessly bailed, writing that you don't care about what I posted, right after I write the clause of the agreement, most likely realizing that you fucked up, while just previously, you said [and I quote]:

I'll bet whatever you want to bet that they don't have proof of arbitrage betting. All you need are two bet slips. I'm not looking at anything that can be edited.

but then when I write you the clause of the written agreement we'll enter...

@holydarkness I don’t care about all that stuff you just posted. My concern is for the two players. Post the bet slips. You already said that XYes says their license is outdated. I don’t need to see more fake documents.

Which one is it? You'll bet whatever I want to bet that I can't prove that XYes has proof or arbitrage betting [instructed by the provider] or you [suddenly] don't care about the stuffs?

Next,

I'm not attacking Holydarkness as if he's the devil. My problem is that he's making things up in the two cases. He's saying that the odds provider has proof of bets on both sides. They don't have proof. He added many rules that XBet never posted such as CLV. He said XYes had an outdated license when they never had a license.

I made things up in the two cases? Of which I strongly assume you refer to darwstall's and ziportan's? Point me to the post where I make things up on this case. No... cross that, let's make it simpler: quote us a post I made on ziportan's thread, of which I make things up. It'll be significantaly easier because the answer is none. I only posted once in that thread, explaining four points and inquiring if GoT is working for XYes. That's me making things up? Inquiring what I don't know is me making things up? Or was that you mixing things up again?

On second thought, I go back to my original question I crossed: do us a favor and point us to the things I made up both on this thread and ziportan's.

So to summarize, kindly clarify these:

1. You advised people to avoid casino detection. As an owner of a thread which rate casinos, what then? If players do your advise and avoid detection and got caught by whatever ToS violation? What do you expect us, as the forum, do?
2. Show us prove that I make up things and posting rules that's not from XYes page and adding CLV on my own.
3. You'll bet whatever I want to bet that I can or can not prove that XYes has proof or arbitrage betting or you don't care about the stuffs because things got too hot and too real and your tails suddenly tucked?
4. Point us to the things I made up both darwstall's and ziportans's thread.

Four questions. I am hoping you can explain to us all and supported with evidence of that alleged things that I made up. Otherwise I believe it is beyond reasonable doubt that those things can be considered as falsifying narrative and make-up statements.

[Rating Place]

@holy I asked you to jump in the case thinking it would take 5 seconds. I'll stick to every word that I said. Since it seems the case is over, there's no longer any need to rehash.

Change of heart, I'll show one thing.

from holydarkness

To summarize: no CLV, no value betting, no syndicate betting, no bot-betting or whatever-other-betting, specifically "arbitrage bet", and the provider risk team is the one that flag this.

Actual rules

[holydarkness]

@holy I asked you to jump in the case thinking it would take 5 seconds. I'll stick to every word that I said. Since it seems the case is over, there's no longer any need to rehash.

Change of heart, I'll show one thing.

from holydarkness

To summarize: no CLV, no value betting, no syndicate betting, no bot-betting or whatever-other-betting, specifically "arbitrage bet", and the provider risk team is the one that flag this.

Actual rules

I would like to think that it needs, because otherwise, you're proven to be twisting words and falsifying statements and make false narrative to discredit someone.

I'd like to add point 5 though: show me where in this thread that holy changing the rules saying that value betting was illegal.

And that weak point you gave as a lame rebuttal has been explained. Either you deliberately twisting it again hoping that people would believe your "evidence" or you barely read. You certainly snip it to work in your favor, as my reply showed the entire context. I'll repeat, here:

From the top of my head, I gave you three chances to back down and to calm down and to digest the situation. I offered you to read and if perhaps you want to revise and retract your statement about me lying. I've gave enough chances to deescalate the matter. Yet you insist with me lying. So, let's escalate it. Let's put money where your logic and mouth and knowledges are.

Escrow 1 million USD... no, 1 point 56 million USD [yes, the 56 is the pun intended for the odds of the wager in this case], one million five hundred and sixty thousand USD, 1,560,000 USD to an escrow, then select a DT. I'll break my vow of silence to XYes and show the proof that was intended to be for my eyes only, that the instruction and the flag come from the provider [well, basically I am not violating their trust, as GoT is planning to ask for other reputable member anyway].

Give your words and we can settle it for good. Or... take my words that I said what I saw. And I'm an honest man. And fair.

The flag always comes from provider and it's either for CLV or ROI. You said the provider flagged for arbitrage. Did the provider flag for arbitrage? Are the rules you posted for CLV fake rules?

The flag is coming from the provider. It was them who warned the casino, just like they do with the other casinos. And no, not CLV or ROI, arbitrage bet. I've mention this many many times. Just escrow the fund and you'll get the confirmation from the DT.

And again, what rules do I post? I'm not a rule maker, I didn't post any rules. What on earth are you talking about? Now, I am saying this in a friendly tone to once again try to deescalate the matter [despite above paragraph, because I am serious with that]: calm down, breathe, ground yourself, 5-4-3-2-1 technique if that helps. You're hurting your own image by looking like someone frantic and spewing words that I didn't say. In other circumstances, people will consider this as you twisting words and making false statements to discredit someone else.

How many times do I have to tell you, the flag always comes from the provider unless you are an independent such as Pinnacle that does it all in house. I'll quote you again. Did you lie about the CLV rule?

o summarize: no CLV, no value betting, no syndicate betting, no bot-betting or whatever-other-betting, specifically "arbitrage bet", and the provider risk team is the one that flag this.

That's not a rule, that's me telling you that the flag made by the provider was specifically about abritrage bet. not CLV, not value betting, not other thing. Arbitrage bet.

this is the full context of the post:

I edited my post. Had 2nd thoughts on discussing but since you asked.

1. Value betting= CLV (closing line Value) not arbitrage.
2. All 5 of your reps were wrong. They said the odds provider makes the final decision.
3. You only got a headache because you were unaware of the meaning of CLV. You should have stopped when they showed no proof of arbitrage.
4. I know what those player analysis sheets are that you are talking about. Once again it said Value or CLV. It didn’t say arbitrage from the provider and you know it.
5. There is no middle ground. XYes made up another story and changed from Value to Arb.

[image snip]

No, it says "arbitrage bet", not CLV, no other thing. Specifically "arbitrage bet".
[...]
To summarize: no CLV, no value betting, no syndicate betting, no bot-betting or whatever-other-betting, specifically "arbitrage bet", and the provider risk team is the one that flag this.

It clearly address your point number 4. You state, "I know what those player analysis sheets are that you are talking about. Once again it said Value or CLV. It didn’t say arbitrage from the provider and you know it." and I made a rebuttal, clearly explaining that the flag did say arbitrage bet.

I'm still waiting for your answer for 1.56 million USD. Say yes, escrow the fund, select a DT member, and if I agree that he's fair and won't misuse the data provided, rather to simply prove/disprove the content, I'll share. Then you'll get your answer that provider indeed the one who raise the flag to this user. Say no, and we all know the quality of a man that call himself Rating Place.

[...]

[Rating Place]

I quoted you. You said no CLV or value bets. XYes has no such rule. Sure, in a huge case where someone is max betting both sides they may go and ask around to share but not for $200. I'll bet you don't have the bet slips but I'm not betting on more fake documents.

Like flexie said, Pinnacle doesn't share. They do everything in-house as far as risk management. Some do things in-house, some outsource. The only time others, outside of Pinny, will share is in a big case. Maybe XYes is just lying to you and you are passing it on. All I know is that a lot of what's been posted isn't true.

Keep posting bet slips in the future since these tell the story. Sometimes immediately and sometimes it takes some digging such as looking at line histories.

no CLV, no value betting

[holydarkness]

I quoted you. You said no CLV or value bets. XYes has no such rule. Sure, in a huge case where someone is max betting both sides they may go and ask around to share but not for $200. I'll bet you don't have the bet slips but I'm not betting on more fake documents.

Like flexie said, Pinnacle doesn't share. They do everything in-house as far as risk management. Some do things in-house, some outsource. The only time they will share is in a big case. Maybe XYes is just lying to you and you are passing it on. All I know is that a lot of what's been posted isn't true.

Keep posting bet slips in the future since these tell the story. Sometimes immediately and sometimes it takes some digging such as looking at line histories.

Trying to twist narrative again to save your ass, eh? We're not blind here, Peeps. But maybe you need some guidance and is really clueless.

This is where it begins, with you explaining about CLV [that I first ever heard of]:

I edited my post. Had 2nd thoughts on discussing but since you asked.

1. Value betting= CLV (closing line Value) not arbitrage.
2. All 5 of your reps were wrong. They said the odds provider makes the final decision.
3. You only got a headache because you were unaware of the meaning of CLV. You should have stopped when they showed no proof of arbitrage.
4. I know what those player analysis sheets are that you are talking about. Once again it said Value or CLV. It didn’t say arbitrage from the provider and you know it.
5. There is no middle ground. XYes made up another story and changed from Value to Arb.

[image snip]

Example of value betting:
OP makes a bet at odds of 2.25.
Line closes 2.15.
It has 0 to do with arbitrage.

Make a few of these in a row and account gets flagged for value betting.

this is my complete reply [snipping irrelevant post and your own post I quote as it's already quoted above]:

I edited my post. Had 2nd thoughts on discussing but since you asked.
[...]

No, it says "arbitrage bet", not CLV, no other thing. Specifically "arbitrage bet".

And here's one more interesting thing: I only glanced at OP's image on the opening post to see his three bets, as [honest to any divine being here] I was too shocked that the casino asked for verbal consent, I thought it's way too excessive. And when my contact showed me the evidence, I was only glancing at it too... well, I read, but I didn't commit it to my memory, as I don't want to deliberately store private information of players I'm "bridging", I'm here just to get to the bottom of cases and resolutions, not being nosy.

Only earlier today when I try to understand where that 20 USD number come from, that I peeked at OP's opening post again and re-read his betting history, and mull over the facts and possible middle-ground. I made that post, inquiring the possibility of arbing due to the uneven wager, and then leave for RL.

Only much later after that "earlier today", very much later after I make that post, that I realized I can confirm myself, so I look into the name of the bet OP provided here and the evidence given to me by my contact, and they matched. So yeah, that bet is what flag him. No need to question whether the bet placed in odd number because OP felt funny or want to round his balance, or just there to be fancy. It's there because or arb. At the very least, that's what perceived by the provider.

To summarize: no CLV, no value betting, no syndicate betting, no bot-betting or whatever-other-betting, specifically "arbitrage bet", and the provider risk team is the one that flag this.
[...]

I explain to you, in regards to your point number 4 where you propose that It didn’t say arbitrage from the provider, it's CLV, and I know it, and the explanation says that the evidence I saw, the flag raised by the provider is not CLV or any other bets, it's arbitrage bet. So yeah, "no CLV, no value bet, no syndicate betting [...]" as what the provider says is arbitrage betting.

That's me changing rules?

I raise five points. I expect them all answered.

1. You advised people to avoid casino detection. As an owner of a thread which rate casinos, what then? If players do your advise and avoid detection and got caught by whatever ToS violation? What do you expect us, as the forum, do?
2. Show us prove that I make up things and posting rules that's not from XYes page and adding CLV on my own.
3. You'll bet whatever I want to bet that I can or can not prove that XYes has proof or arbitrage betting or you don't care about the stuffs because things got too hot and too real and your tails suddenly tucked?
4. Point us to the things I made up both darwstall's and ziportans's thread.
5. show me where in this thread that holy changing the rules saying that value betting was illegal.

[Rating Place]

You said no CLV. There is no such rule. CLV is how people get flagged and limited. It's the same as +EV betting that flexie referenced. The players should have been paid and then limited or banned. That's how they all do it. There was no arbitrage betting and if you had the bet slips, the player wouldn't have been paid.

Why are you listening to XYes? All their documents are fake. You have no proof.

I really don't want to get on you but this case was so simple that it became frustrating to watch.

[ziportan]

holy is such a mindfuck with ocd. writing novels on each post and not even a word makes a fkn sense. the guy has zero clue about sportsbetting and still trying to `bridge` between the bookie and the gambler , fkn crazy

[Rating Place]

holy is such a mindfuck with ocd. writing novels on each post and not even a word makes a fkn sense. the guy has zero clue about sportsbetting and still trying to `bridge` between the bookie and the gambler , fkn crazy

Personally I don't care because I'm not going to monetize my account, but isn't there something that can be done for the fake negative trust against you. You were tagged for value betting. It diminishes the worth of the trust system.

Here's another thing I just ran across. You were accused of value betting, then arbitrage betting.

[nutildah]

holy is such a mindfuck with ocd. writing novels on each post and not even a word makes a fkn sense. the guy has zero clue about sportsbetting and still trying to `bridge` between the bookie and the gambler , fkn crazy

At least he's trying. He can do more for OP than anybody else around here.

Here's another thing I just ran across. You were accused of value betting, then arbitrage betting.

Truthfully I don't like any of the negative feedbacks left for this user as they are unreferenced and it seems like they are punishment for being disruptive and a general pain in the ass. Whether or not that renders them "untrustworthy" is a somewhat subjective call. And as you pointed out they were indeed accused of value betting (in addition to arb betting, which uh, well they should have stuck with one or the other), so the feedback left against them isn't totally incorrect.