The “Want Everything, Pay Nothing” Problem

[shinratensei_]

At some point I think that these debts will be the norm. Every big country will have a really big debts and it will keep adding up yet the world just move on because there's no solution for it because a solution for it means disruption and this disruption means no more cheap healthcare and so on.
We're already too deep in the mud that the only way is to go forward accumulating debt, this happens to every country around the world.

[Abiky]

Taxes are necessary for any country to work well. There is no way we get roads, hospitals, security, or even fair courts without people paying in. I agree, in theory, taxes should be for everyone, and everyone should get something back. That is the dream

But, like you said, the problem is the system is rarely fair. It is not just in one country. Almost everywhere, the richest find ways to avoid taxes. They have teams of lawyers, complicated companies, offshore accounts. Meanwhile, regular people cannot do this, so they pay what is asked, and even more, just to survive

I see the same thing: Big companies say they "create jobs", so they need lower taxes. But this is just an excuse. Jobs matter, but so does everyone paying their part. If only workers pay, and the richest do not, the country cannot be strong for long. The gap just gets wider

What makes it harder is, people lose trust in the system. “Why should I pay if the big guys do not?”, they asked. And when government is not sincere by wasting money or making shady deals, trust goes down even more. It turns into a cycle: more tax dodging, more debt, more frustration

real change has to come from both sides. People need to see where their money goes, and governments need to close loopholes and treat all citizens fairly, rich or poor. If we ever get that, maybe people will actually feel good about paying taxes

Governments need taxes to help finance their operations. But in most cases, they overcharge their citizens, adding more burden to the economy in the long run. Overtaxation has always been an issue, especially in the US and some other countries. I believe that's why most people (especially young people) don't want to work these days. They want everything without having to pay anything in return. Well, their dreams will come true as AI will take control of everything.

So instead of humans being subject to slavery, it would be AI itself. The government will still be able to collect taxes from things that AI produces or helps create. Donald Trump's tariffs could work if they ultimately abolish the income tax. Not only that, but they will serve as a way to ramp up domestic production. Be aware that with the rising cost of living, comes increased criminality rates. Who knows what the future holds?

[doomloop]

Governments need taxes to help finance their operations. But in most cases, they overcharge their citizens, adding more burden to the economy in the long run. Overtaxation has always been an issue, especially in the US and some other countries. I believe that's why most people (especially young people) don't want to work these days. They want everything without having to pay anything in return. Well, their dreams will come true as AI will take control of everything.

So instead of humans being subject to slavery, it would be AI itself. The government will still be able to collect taxes from things that AI produces or helps create. Donald Trump's tariffs could work if they ultimately abolish the income tax. Not only that, but they will serve as a way to ramp up domestic production. Be aware that with the rising cost of living, comes increased criminality rates. Who knows what the future holds?

The "less government" movement came from that, because our taxes are not used efficiently. Just recently, Elon Musk, even though I dislike him, proved that there could be plenty of cuts that he can do to the government himself. It's clear that there are things that government needs to spend money on, but there are things they are wasting money on some other stuff as well. So we need to focus on how they could be doing a good job if they know what they are doing but most don't.

However, problem with less government is that, even if you let people take care of most, government still needs to handle some stuff, law, cops, military, even education to a point. And they can waste a lot of money on those too, which is corruption at its core.

[karabiber]

How governments use the debt they borrow has a positive or negative impact on the lives of future generations. If debt is used in areas that will yield future returns, such as education, infrastructure, energy, etc., future generations can benefit from these investments. Each generation inherits savings and burdens from the previous one. The question is whether this is balanced.

I think this balance was disrupted after the covid-19 pandemic. During the pandemic, people could not leave their homes for a long time and governments borrowed horrendous amounts of money to prevent financial and moral losses to their citizens. This shook the debt balance. The debts grew because the whole system was based on mortgaging the future for the benefit of the present. We may owe our present comfort to mortgaging the savings of future generations.

[slapper]

Government never pays, you might as well walk the yellow brick road to petition the wizard for his benevolence.   A complete fairy tale is the idea government pays its citizens, the government is as important as a traffic light they dont carry the load or do the work they may direct it usefully perhaps.
  Citizens are the wealth of a country beginning and end to any tale, any speech should honestly reflect that.

the idea that "government" somehow gives us money is basically backwards. At the end of the day, it is just our money, cycled back through a lot of bureaucracy (and often, waste or weird priorities). The system is not some rich uncle. It is more like a complicated middleman that takes a cut

It is true, as you said, people are the real wealth. We construct, we make, we pay, and even when politicians say they will give us free stuff, it all begins and ends with citizens doing the work. I admire the way you put on us the responsibility. Leaders have a tendency to make a pretense that they are making the sacrifices when in fact they only control what we have in the table

But here is where I am stuck: if citizens are the "beginning and end", why do so many feel powerless or just… numb? Maybe because the system is so huge now, it is easy to forget who is in charge. It feels like the traffic lights are getting more complicated and sometimes make the jam worse, not better

At some point I think that these debts will be the norm. Every big country will have a really big debts and it will keep adding up yet the world just move on because there's no solution for it because a solution for it means disruption and this disruption means no more cheap healthcare and so on.
We're already too deep in the mud that the only way is to go forward accumulating debt, this happens to every country around the world.

if governments tried to fix the debt all at once, it would be chaos for everyday people. Services would get cut, prices would go up, probably protests in the street. That is why leaders never really fix the root, just patch things up to avoid a crisis today and hope tomorrow's problem is someone else's. Sometimes I catch myself thinking the same way: "We are already in too deep, just keep going". But I worry what happens if something actually does break? A big financial shock, or suddenly nobody wants to lend anymore

But, does this “normalizing debt” attitude just make us all passive? Maybe the real danger is when everyone gives up and expects the system to take care of itself. That is when real change (good or bad) usually gets forced on us, and we lose even more control

[tsaroz]

There sure are nations that asks about 50% tax from the citizens and provide a flawless public service that people appreciate. There always would be people complaining but countries like Denmark and Finland has a working social security.
But many other countries that takes nearly the same tax are providing almost no benefits to the citizens and when the benefits you provide are non existenet and the tax you ask are high, no one would be willing to pay it. If a government wants to take a high tax, they should start with improving themselves, they could work for the citizen with a debt to prove that they could indeed run a welfare society but if the government fails to provide the basic public service, they have no morals to ask for high tax.

The problem is government are not spending the money they raise to where it matters. Government works for the benefit of small number of businesses and people.
Not even 50% of those money raised comes back to the general public. The so called public spending too are a way to feed the contractors and the actual result they deliver are negligible.

[mirakal]

This isn’t just a problem of you and me, but everyone alive that continue to rely from the government. We want good and quality services, and immediate response to our needs and concerns, but we do not think that in order to achieve all of these, we also need to do our part, to pay the right amount of tax, and to be a helpful citizen to achieve total progress of the country.

The problem is our wrong mindset, we demand to be satisfied with the government services, yet we aren’t paying enough so that the government can cater our needs and services wanted.

[Chilwell]

I wonder if we are all trapped in the same game. We want more help from our governments, but we do not want to pay higher taxes. We want good schools, healthcare, safe streets, but also lower bills. I am just as guilty. I like cheap services and extra support too. Who doesn't?

Is it fair to leave this bill to our kids, just so we can have comfort now? I do not have a perfect answer

I don't know which country you belong to, so I'm not going to generalised, because I don't know what the citizens of other government have experience with their government, neither do I know or understand their political system. Is like you are experiencing good governance in your country that's why you are speaking in favour of the government.

But as for my country is a different case. I just can't said that the taxes we paid is too low, because no matter how little it is, in a country where there is more than billions of people living in, I strongly believe that the taxes we pay will be able to bring changes to the country, and also contribute to the growth and development of the country. What I find very difficult to understand is that, the citizens pay their taxes and the country is not improving, every government that comes into power will borrow a huge amount of money and still there is no any improvement. The country has a huge debt on it shoulder. We don't know the fate of the country, and we don't know what the future may bring, but we always hope for the best.

[Abiky]

The "less government" movement came from that, because our taxes are not used efficiently. Just recently, Elon Musk, even though I dislike him, proved that there could be plenty of cuts that he can do to the government himself. It's clear that there are things that government needs to spend money on, but there are things they are wasting money on some other stuff as well. So we need to focus on how they could be doing a good job if they know what they are doing but most don't.

However, problem with less government is that, even if you let people take care of most, government still needs to handle some stuff, law, cops, military, even education to a point. And they can waste a lot of money on those too, which is corruption at its core.

Corrupt politicians are the main reason why the government is always in a deficit. It can collect as many taxes as it wants, but without proper money management, the economy won't be going anywhere. Young people are taking notice by steering away from work as much as possible. They want everything in hand without actually doing anything. And with innovative technologies such as AI, Blockchain, and Quantum Computing, who needs the "human touch" anymore?

I'm afraid companies and governments will continue to replace human workers with AI and robotics. It's the way of the future. Tariffs will probably replace the income tax in the long run. Only time will tell...

[Botnake]

At some point I think that these debts will be the norm. Every big country will have a really big debts and it will keep adding up yet the world just move on because there's no solution for it because a solution for it means disruption and this disruption means no more cheap healthcare and so on.
We're already too deep in the mud that the only way is to go forward accumulating debt, this happens to every country around the world.

Let’s just put it this way, if you want your country to gain progress and economic growth, taking debt is not probably a must, but it’s the best solution. There is no country that has no debt, all countries are in debt right now. The biggest and the most progressive country these days has the highest amount of wealth, while those countries who prefer to have no expensive growth and development, it’s actually the country that has the lowest amount of debt.

In general, debt becomes a norm. Without debt, you won’t get to see the people living in that country enjoy and get satisfied with the services of their country’s government.

[Abiky]

Let’s just put it this way, if you want your country to gain progress and economic growth, taking debt is not probably a must, but it’s the best solution. There is no country that has no debt, all countries are in debt right now. The biggest and the most progressive country these days has the highest amount of wealth, while those countries who prefer to have no expensive growth and development, it’s actually the country that has the lowest amount of debt.

In general, debt becomes a norm. Without debt, you won’t get to see the people living in that country enjoy and get satisfied with the services of their country’s government.

How come debt is a good thing? Doesn't that lead to currency devaluation in the long run? At the time of this writing, the US has the largest debt in the world. It's now going to get worse with Trump's newly-enacted "One Big Beautiful Bill" spending bill. The risk of a default is now higher than ever.

I understand governments need to borrow some money to help finance their operations. But everything must be done in a balanced manner. Overspending and "printing money" out of thin air will only create a huge economic crisis in the long run. And with many youngsters avoiding work, things will only get worse. I mean, how are governments going to collect taxes with limited productivity? Perhaps, AI will solve all of our problems...

[letteredhub]

I wonder if we are all trapped in the same game. We want more help from our governments, but we do not want to pay higher taxes. We want good schools, healthcare, safe streets, but also lower bills. I am just as guilty. I like cheap services and extra support too. Who doesn't?

We all aware of the global economic crisis the government of different countries are battling with to ensure a no collapse of itself. But we also have to consider one thing about behind the  “Want Everything, Pay Nothing” Problem as your title gives, which is found within all citizens of every country on their governments. The cause of this is not far from that fact that the government is believed to be in control of the resources of the country and the citizens expects they get some benefits in that through building of infrastructures, schools, hospitals , and provision of other social care services. It's an obligation on the part of the government to the citizens in as much as they remain as authority over every resources in the country.

[iBaba]

This isn’t just a problem of you and me, but everyone alive that continue to rely from the government. We want good and quality services, and immediate response to our needs and concerns, but we do not think that in order to achieve all of these, we also need to do our part, to pay the right amount of tax, and to be a helpful citizen to achieve total progress of the country.

The problem is our wrong mindset, we demand to be satisfied with the government services, yet we aren’t paying enough so that the government can cater our needs and services wanted.

If we want to truly enjoy the dividend of democracy, we must contribute our own quota such as paying our tax and act like normal citizens. We can't be shouting at the government when you no contribute shi-shi inside. But let's even say the truth, Nigerians don't like paying taxes because they are scared of being robbed off their money by corrupt public officials and politicians. And yu cannot deny that. Plenty Nigerians are paying informal tax every blessed day, for example, Okada men, Market women among other small business people who pay levies to task force officers and associations dues. So it won't be entirely true to say the people don't pay tax.

What has killed the situation in Nigeria is that the government isn't taking up the responsibility to deliver the mandate given to them by the people, judiciously which has now cast the disbelieve of the people from the government. Many of us feel say all our efforts and money wey we dey contribute give government no dey count at all. So to get a better result, both the government and the people must to own up that responsibility of doing the right things at the right time even when it does not pay.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Is it fair to leave this bill to our kids, just so we can have comfort now? I do not have a perfect answer

I think you have missed an essential point here: we are paying this debt because it is being inflated away. It is a ponzi scheme that keeps getting bigger and bigger. That's why everything is more expensive, houses, food, everything. Then they tell you that there has been a 2% increase in the CPI and it doesn't add up with what you see in the supermarket. That is why, among other things, bitcoin was born, and saving in it is the best way to protect oneself against the generalised loss of purchasing power that this flight forward represents.

[tygeade]

I think you have missed an essential point here: we are paying this debt because it is being inflated away. It is a ponzi scheme that keeps getting bigger and bigger. That's why everything is more expensive, houses, food, everything. Then they tell you that there has been a 2% increase in the CPI and it doesn't add up with what you see in the supermarket. That is why, among other things, bitcoin was born, and saving in it is the best way to protect oneself against the generalised loss of purchasing power that this flight forward represents.

That is true, it's sort of like a ponzi scheme, but a better calculation would be saying it's a pyramid scheme, because the ones at the top earns, while we all lose. They are printing money like crazy and that's not an easy way out, it's the most important situation.

We have to approach this as a way of seeing this a lot better. Where we are seeing this as printing money as a way to float the inflation but there aren't really changing it any greater for the long term. This just has to be the most obvious thing to realize, printing money has to be limited, I understand zero printing may make things hard, but printing THIS much is the hardest thing. There is nothing we can see as a benefit to having this much more money every year.

[summonerrk]

In fact, the US does not have a huge debt and the fact is that the US owes the most money to its own citizens.
No, it is not a fact that the US owes the world a ton of money and this debt is only increasing. No, this is not true, the US sells government bonds that allow citizens to lend money to their government, due to which the economy grows even faster. It is essentially like putting money in a bank deposit and waiting for interest (from citizens).
That's why they say the US has such a big debt, but in reality many countries simply owe money to others, and the US doesn't have that problem.

[AprilioMP]

People just want more services, but not higher taxes or less help. Politicians promise both, and then just borrow more. In my own life, I benefit from this too: cheaper healthcare, more support, but I know someone will pay for this later. Maybe our children

The truth is what they haven't said.
They live in their own country, but the people pay their salaries. When the people are in trouble, they are absent. I have thoughts that people consider a little more to the left regarding views on the economic system.
A country rich in natural resources should be able to prosper without having to bear burdens such as high taxes even though from the taxes imposed, the state can manage other things that can bring the country to a more advanced direction.

By progress I mean not just one aspect but many.
Education must advance, health must advance. But in a country with poor governance, these things will not be available to the people as a whole, only to certain groups, resulting in inequality.

Is it fair to leave this bill to our kids, just so we can have comfort now? I do not have a perfect answer

No, it doesn't. That's not fair.

[el kaka22]

I agree with others. Taxes are not the problem, it's about nations not using it properly. Look at USA for example, so much in debt, and spending so much, but the nation still sucks. No free healthcare, terrible schools all around, homeless people, and even fires are not put out in time because firefighters are severely understaffed and undermachined. So as you can see, I named just a few examples, it can do a lot more, but in the end, we know that it is not really being used properly.

If my tax goes to some NGO in some foreign nation instead of helping my own nation get better, then why would I want to pay taxes? If I lived in Finland, I would be fine with paying that much, it is definitely not going to be a problem for me.

[Accardo]

What if the government made the debt up to buy the pity of her citizens? We've all known of the richest nations owing in trillions for decades, and even now, but they're always in a nice shape with investors, domestic and international, enough to build infrastructures, pay salaries and offer clean water. The whole debt thing not everyone accepts it, but a nation must depend on loan to run effectively. Still, the government can't be trusted, they can make things up to melt the people's heart.

[NurseHub]

Op do you even realise who pays for everything even things that do not benefit them? (The masses, the average tax payers) in all sense, they even pay the taxes of the government officials and those who evade tax for some charity nonsenses.

I think that you opinion is only tied to a specific thing and not a general and rational thinking.