Political aspects of cryptocurrencies

[Odogwu-Blockchain]

One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

Isn't the reason that rich people invest in various assets simply because they have enough money for their daily lives and can afford other ways of investing? 
Give a poor person bitcoins or other assets, and the first thing he will do with them is sell them.

Investment comes in when daily needs are 100% met, food, clothing and shelter are stabilized before proper long term investments can be thought about, of course, the poor will definitely sell off not because they lack knowledge on assets but because their daily needs are still active on the scale of preference which has to be attended to before anything else.

[SUPERSAIAN]

The poor who invest in Bitcoin are still not enough to get rich, their economy would improve, but they will step up to middle class. Then back to your first sentence, middle class will disappear, so they ended up become poor again because they not own the business nor system.

Getting rich is very hard, what we see on social medias are mostly upper middle class who could back to poor if they make mistake in financial decision.

Poor people can rise to the middle class in the long run through Bitcoin investments. Many will return to poverty, as they won't have sustainable income. I agree, but some can remain middle class or even become richer. Anything can happen, depending on how an individual seizes opportunities. There's no better option than accumulating Bitcoin and financially transitioning into the middle class than remaining poor.

[Scarabus]

Anyway I agree with your general sentiment here: the "inflation tax" indeed benefits the richest 5% much more than the rest of the population because it fuels the value of their assets. (In some cases however, real estate is also appreciating, which is often owned by middle class people, but that's probably a small effect.)

Maybe I missed one more point: possibly it is correct to say that the rich people store their savings in the form of not assets but investments:

https://kimgriest.medium.com/real-reason-the-american-middle-class-is-disappearing-901cb78ababf

There is an economic law that determines whether the middle class wealth is growing or shrinking. It is just the comparison of two numbers: g, the percentage yearly growth of the economy (very roughly the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) increase), and r, the yearly return on investment of capital (for example, think average yearly percentage yield of a stock market portfolio).

Second: the masses of the poor will be probably (in a general sense, "some smart poor people" already invested of course) the last group to be able to invest in crypto because they don't have too much spare money for that purpose. So they would perhaps invest when Bitcoin is already at 800k, and have only 25% profit until the million.

Maybe we should rather say that using bitcoins demands some knowledge, and it is easier for a rich man to pay for consulting than for a poor man.

And therefore, there is a well-founded opinion that another part of the early Bitcoin adopters belonged to those 5% even before the existence of bitcoin.
The reason for this is that these people had enough money to avoid selling an asset that is constantly growing for a dozen years. Think about it, they didn't sell bitcoin even when its value was falling.
An ordinary person would hardly be able to stand it.  

I am not sure this is right: in my opinion, maybe a lot of new bitcoin millionaires are IT geeks who just found it it funny to mine bitcoins in 2009-1017.

p.s. Sorry for a late reply, I visit this forum not often.

[iBaba]

One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

Isn't the reason that rich people invest in various assets simply because they have enough money for their daily lives and can afford other ways of investing? 
Give a poor person bitcoins or other assets, and the first thing he will do with them is sell them.

Investment comes in when daily needs are 100% met, food, clothing and shelter are stabilized before proper long term investments can be thought about, of course, the poor will definitely sell off not because they lack knowledge on assets but because their daily needs are still active on the scale of preference which has to be attended to before anything else.

This is you being realistic on the true event of things. We often get too busy discussing about bitcoin investments but how many of us really talk about when someone can truly go into long term investment. I think the easiest way one can describe investment is a money you keep for a long period of time more or less like a savings you keep for the future.

Bitcoin investment is not necessarily for the rich people but it is certainly not for the destitutes. Maybe for average earning people who humbly call themselves poor people. But I can guarantee you that bitcoin investment is not for the extremely poor person who's battling with survival at the very minimal. You have to be able to feed yourself, cloth your self and shelter yourself before going into bitcoin investment so you don't end in starvation in the name of investment when you actually got a little to eat bread and drink tea.

[Scarlett_23]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.

In the light of the real situation, the rich are currently getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Those who have money can invest in different ways and places, thus broadening their new sources of income.

In this regard, the poor person is always behind. Because where he fails to meet his basic needs, investing there seems like a dream to him. However, those who have some money left over from their monthly income at the end of their lives can invest in accordance with their financial situation if they wish.

 They can choose Bitcoin for this. And in the long run, it can give a person financial freedom.

[uneng]

Bitcoin will only make difference for those who become adopters. The "revolution" won't help the middle class if the middle class isn't investing in Bitcoin. For real, what happens is that most investors are already rich and they are accumulating even more wealth through Bitcoin investment, while majority of the world's population will remain on the same financial conditions, as they aren't interested in becoming investors.

After all, the revolution happens on the individual sphere of someone's life, and it's done through the personal choices the person makes for his life.

[coupable]

Getting rich is very hard, what we see on social medias are mostly upper middle class who could back to poor if they make mistake in financial decision.

It shouldn't be that hard for people in third tier world because they can easity accumulate wealth without paying taxes or report to the state. In my country, 50% of global market budget is in black market. All border regions work on smuggling of goods from neighbour countries accross the borders illegally and the authorities knows about them but do nothing. All of those people accumulate wealth starting with very small investment since they buy and sell goods within the black market. Why not everybody do this and become rich? Because the majority prefer live as employee and ignore thinking about investing in their time and efforts. Poorness isn't always a matter of how much money you have, but rather how much time you are ready to spend building a successful mind.

[MarjorieZimmermanGinger]

But I think that the rise of cryptocurrencies will be an important first step towards a revolution in the Western world against the Deep State. I found that many people in the Western world, especially in Europe, are brainwashed - they often simply deny that the inflation is a hidden taxation. So when the bitcoin will cost 1m, these lies of the ruling class will be destroyed, the people will start thinking. That's why buying bitcoins now is an investment into future revolution of the Western people against the Deep State, so I think that in nearest years the bitcoins will grow very rapidly.

The only way is to create a revolution for yourself and use Bitcoin as a step towards achieving financial freedom based on the opportunities it offers. We are not only fooled by the existing financial system, but also made dependent on it, and this has been going on for a long time before we were born. One thing I've learned is that we can never fight the hegemony of this power because the system is built on power. Instead of dwelling on problems we can't solve, it's better to start trying to strengthen our finances by utilizing Bitcoin as a tool available today.

[bitwalhr]

Bitcoin will only make difference for those who become adopters. The "revolution" won't help the middle class if the middle class isn't investing in Bitcoin. For real, what happens is that most investors are already rich and they are accumulating even more wealth through Bitcoin investment, while majority of the world's population will remain on the same financial conditions, as they aren't interested in becoming investors.

After all, the revolution happens on the individual sphere of someone's life, and it's done through the personal choices the person makes for his life.

If the middle class wants to survive they don't need to wait for opportunities or have things done for them. Instead they must take proactive steps to increase their chances as this is the best bet for them if they want to achieve something positive. Otherwise, they are likely to struggle and suffer badly in a few countries where economic conditions are dire.
In my current location I've noticed that the middle class is struggling largely due to their inability to adapt to changing circumstances their sources of income are dwindling and this has left them with limited options while bitcoin may offer some opportunities these will not come free they require effort from the individual people's mental health is suffering as it becomes increasingly difficult for them to maintain a balance in life. In several countries including Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal, the economic situation is already dire, with many individuals struggling to make ends meet.
A few countries are under the control of strong establishments that are unable to respond effectively to these challenges. the cryptocurrency market has been let down by scams and meme coins which have no real value but bitcoin remains a reliable choice for investors seeking long-term survival.

[Fiatless]

I want to second what was said by Xandry. Whether rich or poor, smart people convert their funds into assets. You are talking about only rich, but I am talking about smart. I wasn't very rich; you can say I was a middle-class citizen who worked abroad once a day. Once I was introduced to the crypto world, I found the way to earn extra money. And learn to increase my portfolio from trading and holding. So I am not very rich, but I have enough now for whatever I really need. I built my own home, and the money was converted to crypto assets. Means my portfolio is still increasing.

So even if you are poor, you can still try smartly. I know it's hard to invest in Bitcoin for poor people, but it doesn't prevent you from earning. Being poor doesn't prevent you from developing your skill and selling your skill. If you don't want to die as a poor person, then work hard. Don't depend on a single income source. Don't blame politicians; you can't change anything. Rather develop yourself and convert money to crypto to hold it longer.

Excuses or blaming politicians will not change anything. The poor or middle class can make sacrifices if they want to invest. Taking extra jobs, cutting down on luxuries, and saving should be their goal. If they are smart, investing money in viable assets like Bitcoin would be ideal. The good part about Bitcoin is that you can buy it with a small amount consistently until you have a substantial amount.

[bettercrypto]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.
However, I am sure that only switching from inflational economics model to deflational one can't change the things significantly. The main reason of the disappearance of the middle class is political: the wealthy 1% of the population are the ruling class, and they pass laws for making them more and more rich, for example under Reagan the taxes for wealthy were cut. They also control the mass media like CNN or Fox News, and these mass media lie about the problem of the disappearance of the middle class.
But I think that the rise of cryptocurrencies will be an important first step towards a revolution in the Western world against the Deep State. I found that many people in the Western world, especially in Europe, are brainwashed - they often simply deny that the inflation is a hidden taxation. So when the bitcoin will cost 1m, these lies of the ruling class will be destroyed, the people will start thinking. That's why buying bitcoins now is an investment into future revolution of the Western people against the Deep State, so I think that in nearest years the bitcoins will grow very rapidly.

We all know that most of the time, wealthy people who are open-minded about Bitcoin or cryptocurrency don’t really have a problem buying them. Even if they don’t know much about Bitcoin or crypto assets, as long as they’re rich, they have the means to invest in potential cryptocurrencies.

Meanwhile, those who are poor but open-minded about Bitcoin or cryptocurrency don’t have enough funds to buy the assets they want. Instead, they can only buy
or invest according to what they can afford — unlike the wealthy, for whom it’s “the sky’s the limit,” so to speak.

[btc_angela]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.
However, I am sure that only switching from inflational economics model to deflational one can't change the things significantly. The main reason of the disappearance of the middle class is political: the wealthy 1% of the population are the ruling class, and they pass laws for making them more and more rich, for example under Reagan the taxes for wealthy were cut. They also control the mass media like CNN or Fox News, and these mass media lie about the problem of the disappearance of the middle class.
But I think that the rise of cryptocurrencies will be an important first step towards a revolution in the Western world against the Deep State. I found that many people in the Western world, especially in Europe, are brainwashed - they often simply deny that the inflation is a hidden taxation. So when the bitcoin will cost 1m, these lies of the ruling class will be destroyed, the people will start thinking. That's why buying bitcoins now is an investment into future revolution of the Western people against the Deep State, so I think that in nearest years the bitcoins will grow very rapidly.

We all know that most of the time, wealthy people who are open-minded about Bitcoin or cryptocurrency don’t really have a problem buying them. Even if they don’t know much about Bitcoin or crypto assets, as long as they’re rich, they have the means to invest in potential cryptocurrencies.

Nah, it's just in the last 4 years that we have seen wealthy people investing in Bitcoin or crypto currency in general. Some of the old and traditional investors doesn't like it because it's very volatile. Only when they see the true potential to grow their wealth that we have seen companies and ETF's.

Meanwhile, those who are poor but open-minded about Bitcoin or cryptocurrency don’t have enough funds to buy the assets they want. Instead, they can only buy
or invest according to what they can afford — unlike the wealthy, for whom it’s “the sky’s the limit,” so to speak.

And that's where we fall, the retail investors. I think our group are still the biggest holders, yeah we can invest small but we know how to play this game. It's the mindset that we should be investing for the bigger picture, at least 4 years before taking any profits.

[Olatundespo]

One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

Isn't the reason that rich people invest in various assets simply because they have enough money for their daily lives and can afford other ways of investing? 
Give a poor person bitcoins or other assets, and the first thing he will do with them is sell them. And I don't think we need to condemn him for this, because firstly we need to ensure that basic needs are met, and then we need to think about investments. Moreover, Nvidia shares or cryptocurrency cannot be used to pay for utilities, for example.

You are right. If you give any wealth to the poor, they will be busy fulfilling their basic needs first. This is a real example. Rich people make multifaceted efforts to increase their wealth and they succeed because they have sufficient funds and because of being rich, they also have muscle power. I see those rich classes getting richer who are immersed in abundance of wealth and are more interested in investing. The impact of inflation does not have much effect on their income because they are playing with all the preparations.

The poor have to jump to earn to meet their basic needs and secondly they have to fight against inflation. Being ready to fight, meeting their basic needs and setting aside funds for investment, these are their eternal efforts to survive and most of the time they are successful because they accumulate Bitcoin through hardship and hold it for the long term.

[B-BossMan]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

The relationship between wealth inequality and inflation is something else; indeed, the unbalanced inflation is really affecting the poor ones and also decreasing their wealth or savings, and the wealthy ones are turning their savings into many assets. Obviously, the tax policies always favour the rich ones, but since the cryptocurrencies provide the decentralised nature that makes individuals have their own financial freedom and protect their savings, if the cryptocurrencies' benefits and educational knowledge on financial growth were really being promoted around, there would be changes in inequalities, and the aim of having equitable economics would be achieved,moreover financial decisions matters irrespective of weather you are rich or poor.

[Synchronice]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.

Inflation isn't the reason of why you are poor because it affects everyone, including rich people too. You can also invest in assets just like them but keep in mind that assets aren't some sort of magic that keep the inflation away, look at it like a public pool where everyone pours the water. In the end, those who pour water the first, are almost guaranteed to profit but it depends on the company and the project too.

By the way, that's the rule of life. Strong species take over weak species. In our case, strong is wealthy and weak is poor. The only way for weak species to beat strong species if they unite but sadly, people rarely unite against their enemies.

[xandry]

I am not sure this is right: in my opinion, maybe a lot of new bitcoin millionaires are IT geeks who just found it it funny to mine bitcoins in 2009-1017.

I've tried mining bitcoin myself (not particularly successfully) and Ethereum. On seven video cards, I sometimes managed to mine 1 eth daily. As you can imagine, you get some virtual coins for fun. However, there is no guarantee that these coins will have a value greater than at the moment. And so one coin on the market costs $8, then $80, then $1400, then $90, then $4000 and again $880. And all this for six years. How long can a simple it geek wait and tolerate this volatility?

The answer is simple: you need to have a good financial condition and know when to sell what you were doing "for fun."

Although I don't dispute that simple techies would be among them by chance.

[AmoreJaz]

I am not sure this is right: in my opinion, maybe a lot of new bitcoin millionaires are IT geeks who just found it it funny to mine bitcoins in 2009-1017.

I've tried mining bitcoin myself (not particularly successfully) and Ethereum. On seven video cards, I sometimes managed to mine 1 eth daily. As you can imagine, you get some virtual coins for fun. However, there is no guarantee that these coins will have a value greater than at the moment. And so one coin on the market costs $8, then $80, then $1400, then $90, then $4000 and again $880. And all this for six years. How long can a simple it geek wait and tolerate this volatility?

The answer is simple: you need to have a good financial condition and know when to sell what you were doing "for fun."

Although I don't dispute that simple techies would be among them by chance.

Of course, in the early days of btc, those who were mining didn't expect that it will have the value after 5 years or so of collecting that coin. Just like a very good example, I had some few BTCs way back in 2015, when it was like only about $300, I would have not sold it if I knew that it will fetch at a staggering price of $115k. So more than likely, those who did not sell at that time, were just mere collectors and didn't have any clue that it will go this far. That is the reason why some BTCs were lost or forgotten because they were not expecting about this huge price increase.

Up until today, the population who are into crypto is still small compared to the global population. Also, the mining community is much smaller. Some are just mere holders without knowing how mining works. So I can understand that up until now, those who are into mining are still low in numbers, especially the equipment needed are quite expensive.

[Scarabus]

I've tried mining bitcoin myself (not particularly successfully) and Ethereum. On seven video cards, I sometimes managed to mine 1 eth daily. As you can imagine, you get some virtual coins for fun. However, there is no guarantee that these coins will have a value greater than at the moment. And so one coin on the market costs $8, then $80, then $1400, then $90, then $4000 and again $880. And all this for six years. How long can a simple it geek wait and tolerate this volatility?

I have small knowledge, but I think that possibly you are not fully right. At this forum I met only once the word "hodl" (prev post), and I think this word is very important. Possibly hodling is a kind of strategy of amateur miners to keep their bitcoins until the price of bitcoin is 1m and they all become very rich, maybe even a new financial elite.
I have some ideas on "theory of revolution": when a revolution is performed, it is better to delegate the power not to the  revolutionaries (because the revolutionaries are usually freaks, since they are controlled by the power), but to randomly chosen people. Amateur miners who started mining bitcoins in 2010 are usual people, techno geeks who get the knowledge of bitcoin by chance, and if the old financial elite is overthorwn and these geeks become a new elite, this will be good for the humanity. I have seen some articles stating that "the lottocracy is better than the democracy", and I agree with this statement to a significan extent.

[bitgolden]

Of course, in the early days of btc, those who were mining didn't expect that it will have the value after 5 years or so of collecting that coin. Just like a very good example, I had some few BTCs way back in 2015, when it was like only about $300, I would have not sold it if I knew that it will fetch at a staggering price of $115k. So more than likely, those who did not sell at that time, were just mere collectors and didn't have any clue that it will go this far. That is the reason why some BTCs were lost or forgotten because they were not expecting about this huge price increase.

Up until today, the population who are into crypto is still small compared to the global population. Also, the mining community is much smaller. Some are just mere holders without knowing how mining works. So I can understand that up until now, those who are into mining are still low in numbers, especially the equipment needed are quite expensive.

Not all did, but some definitely believed it. I have seen people who mined it when it was just 11 dollars, who said it will be over a thousand dollars one day so that is why they are mining. I saw people who were mining when it was under a thousand, like few hundred, and said they believe it should be millions of dollars and we are not even there yet.

This is why we can say that the best way to move forward would be just making sure that we know there are people who always believed in bitcoin, and this is one of those situations. Make sure that bitcoin maximalists are always there, and you invest accordingly. I know that we are still early, and I know that we are going to still go up on the long run as well.