Prestige system to bitcointalk

[libert19]

So, I was just reading the other thread and came across this comment quoted below, and I just got a light bulb moment — ok not really, it's fresh of cod prestige system.

I was going to reply there, but I think this is worth a discussion so am posting here.

... after becoming Legendary, there is not much more to achieve. And it is usually a good idea, to start from Newbie again, and to build the whole reputation from scratch. Maybe all Legendary accounts should have "make me newbie" button, to solve it?

May be do it like cod prestige system: You reach leggy >> you can make yourself newbie again >> you get this badge that represents you have reached leggy once >> you reach leggy again >> you get this second badge to represent you have reached leggy twice — these badges must look prestigious and must show their significance.

It takes a while to get to leggy even if you are exceptional in earning merits due to activity required so user should be able to get only handful of prestigious badges in one's lifetime which will make badges prestigious by itself.

Edit: I figure I haven't thought this deep. LoyceV has 19745 merits, 3780 activity so with this system, he would be already having 3 prestige badges for being a quality user in mere decade, so let's say he would be active for another 50 years, then he will be having 18 prestige badges, so not so prestigious anymore, right? and definitely goes way more than 'handful' as I mentioned above.


So, sirs and madams, wdy think?

[_act_]

Only what I think is that some exceptional people should be given a title that is superior to legendary. Example are people that have earned 10000 merits already. The title can change to supreme instead of them to remain in legendary.

I just use supreme as an example. I know it is used in something related to authority but you can understand me.

[Churchillvv]

Since we are not playing some kind of game in this forum it’s only best the system remains as it is but maybe borrow the idea of the user above, in a different context though;

For instance, since ranks are measured by activity and merit, maybe theymos can use the custom name space to add an additional title to legendary members or some sign like badge you mentioned once they achieve 5,000 merit and activity and so on.

[Mia Chloe]

May be do it like cod prestige system: You reach leggy >> you can make yourself newbie again >> you get this badge that represents you have reached leggy once >> you reach leggy again >> you get this second badge to represent you have reached leggy twice — these badges must look prestigious and must show their significance.

Ever heard of the saying ; Human wants are insatiable? I guess it's exactly what's gonna happen. Eventually someone who is able to achieve legendary thrice will still get bored out. The forum works in an interesting way and ranks sometimes just say how much you've been around here.

Users here are not valued based on rank but more of reputation and contributions to the forum generally. As a result of this there are legendary members that based on quality may not warrant the rank and similarly there are member ranks with more organic contributions on the forum than some legendary.
Then again like I mentioned earlier, sometimes rank may just measure how long you've been around.

[Plaguedeath]

Well, reputation matters.

A clear newbie without badge is different with a newbie with 5 badges, it affect people who send the merit.

And, I don't understand with the motive of rank reset, I don't think that after the user who used to wear Hero signature will be kicked out after their rank reset to newbie. Many campaign managers prefer to choose "the user" over the rank.

So let's say the campaign pays $10 for Member and $100 for Legendary, they would high likely get paid for $100 even they're Member.

[rbynxx]

None of these ideas are new to me. Even if I don't respond to suggestions, I do read them, and they float around in my mind going forward.

• A new member rank after Legendary as it is becoming far too common now and will only become more so as time passes. I would suggest fixing Legendary at 960 activity and the new rank is double that at 1920. You could also make the merit requirement very high for this rank so it's only for the crème de la crème of users [OMG NAZI RANK ITS LIKE THE RICH KEEP GETTING RICHER].

No. Or not yet. Or the idea would need to be significantly modified.

So, sirs and madams, wdy think?

I think theymos has seen many suggestions like this before, but with this kind of twist, I believe getting more is essential or more glorifying rather than suggesting to de-rank yourself. Basically, it's up to theymos, and it's certainly possible. But for me, merit already functions as a prestige system and it clearly shows you're a significant member here. Nothing fancy, click on the profile if it has huge merits and check his/her topics or posts.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

I think theymos has seen many suggestions like this before, but with this kind of twist, I believe getting more is essential or more glorifying rather than suggesting to de-rank yourself.

Derank is for incapable members that are at higher ranks in the forum while they belong to old generations before Merit system kick-off in January 2018 or they ranked up during merit system era since 2018 but by buying merit, exchanging merit and their posts are low quality.

Posters can be inactive but still received merits for past contributions and past posts while active posters can not receive any merit since January 2018 if their posts are all useless and no quality.

Posters with some or many received merits don't mean they are quality posters and you can not only look at merit numbers to assess their quality. Read their posts, and their merited posts to assess their post quality.

PowerGlove has this Rank up / down thread.

[Findingnemo]

Read their posts, and their merited posts to assess their post quality.

This is the right way to assess a quality member because we have a lot of ways to earn merits and one good example is Pizza contest if you are good at then you can receive tons of em, which doesn't necessarily mean the poster is knowledgeable about bitcoin and the forum. Merit system made it a lot harder for account farmers to rankup but it should not be the only metric to evaluate a forum user and by the way many will agree that 'not every good posts receives merits and not every merited post is worthy of it'.

[rbynxx]

Posters with some or many received merits don't mean they are quality posters and you can not only look at merit numbers to assess their quality. Read their posts, and their merited posts to assess their post quality.

PowerGlove has this Rank up / down thread.

That's what I'm trying to emphasize, tbh. I believe merit is already a prestigious system, and the forum doesn't need to copy features just because we know they were cool elsewhere. That doesn't mean they have to be implemented here too. I think theymos wants it to still feel like the classic Bitcoin Forum.

Merit system made it a lot harder for account farmers to rankup but it should not be the only metric to evaluate a forum user and by the way many will agree that 'not every good posts receives merits and not every merit post is worthy of it'.

I definitely agree with this.

[KingsDen]

... after becoming Legendary, there is not much more to achieve. And it is usually a good idea, to start from Newbie again, and to build the whole reputation from scratch. Maybe all Legendary accounts should have "make me newbie" button, to solve it?

At first, I visited the other thread from whence the inspiration of this thread was drawn and discovered that someone who raised this opinion isn't even a legendary member.

So, sirs and madams, wdy think?

I don't have a problem with your proposed system if there will be a badge to indicate that I previously have attained the legendary status. So, what you are proposing is just what we are currently practicing but on a longer version. Then, will there be another badge for non air-dropped legendary members? As Mia noted that humans are insatiable.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

I believe that above the Legendary rank, prestige is based on other things that do not necessarily have to be reflected in a system on Bitcointalk. For example:



Given that, as mentioned, many proposals have been made in this regard and nothing has changed since the merit system was implemented, I do not believe that theymos will make any further changes. Especially considering that when the merit system was implemented, it was to deal with a serious spam problem in the forum, not so that people could be recognised in one way or another. The recognition derived from earning many merits was a consequence, not the cause, of implementing the merit system, in my opinion.

[libert19]

... after becoming Legendary, there is not much more to achieve. And it is usually a good idea, to start from Newbie again, and to build the whole reputation from scratch. Maybe all Legendary accounts should have "make me newbie" button, to solve it?

At first, I visited the other thread from whence the inspiration of this thread was drawn and discovered that someone who raised this opinion isn't even a legendary member.

Why does it matter if he's not leggy? Guy already has a good number of merits and in all likelyhood he gonna reach his leggy merit requirement first before activity, this says he's quality user anyhow.

So, sirs and madams, wdy think?

...Then, will there be another bad for non air-dropped legendary members?

Wat?

[KingsDen]

... after becoming Legendary, there is not much more to achieve. And it is usually a good idea, to start from Newbie again, and to build the whole reputation from scratch. Maybe all Legendary accounts should have "make me newbie" button, to solve it?

At first, I visited the other thread from whence the inspiration of this thread was drawn and discovered that someone who raised this opinion isn't even a legendary member.

Why does it matter if he's not leggy? Guy already has a good number of merits and in all likelyhood he gonna reach his leggy merit requirement first before activity, this says he's quality user anyhow.

Not about being a quality poster or not. No self-made legendary member will choose to reset to a newbie if your proposal is not applied.

So, sirs and madams, wdy think?

...Then, will there be another bad for non air-dropped legendary members?

Sorry for the typo, it's corrected. "badge"
Wat?

[libert19]

... after becoming Legendary, there is not much more to achieve. And it is usually a good idea, to start from Newbie again, and to build the whole reputation from scratch. Maybe all Legendary accounts should have "make me newbie" button, to solve it?

At first, I visited the other thread from whence the inspiration of this thread was drawn and discovered that someone who raised this opinion isn't even a legendary member.

Why does it matter if he's not leggy? Guy already has a good number of merits and in all likelyhood he gonna reach his leggy merit requirement first before activity, this says he's quality user anyhow.

Not about being a quality poster or not. No self-made legendary member will choose to reset to a newbie if your proposal is not applied.

You mean if this idea is applied? I wouldn't be so surefire that no one will decide to continue from newbie again, it's not as if they'll be losing their rank anyway.

So, sirs and madams, wdy think?

...Then, will there be another bad for non air-dropped legendary members?

Sorry for the typo, it's corrected. "badge"
Wat?

I still didn't get it. You mean how it's gonna work with people who haven't reached leggy yet?

[ertil]

someone who raised this opinion isn't even a legendary member

But he was. I guess at least twice, if not more times. People like him no longer care that much about ranking up. And I wonder, how many newbies are his alts, when I can read some exceptionally good replies in some threads.

As Mia noted that humans are insatiable.

Yes, but it is also about something else. When you become a leggy, then some people merit some of your posts, not because of the content, but because you wrote it. And then, it is a way, to double-check (or even triple-check in his case), if you can still write great posts, or if you are merited, just because people are used to merit you, and it is just one of their habits.

Why does it matter if he's not leggy?

If someone didn't understand: he is using some alt. He probably was leggy (and maybe even more than once, because the content produced by his alts is suspiciously similar). And he is now on his journey, to repeat that kind of achievement again. And again. And again. If you wonder, why some newbies are so smart, when you read their posts, then now you should know the answer.

There are less real people, and much more alts, than many people expect. And they keep making alt accounts, because it is profitable. The whole system is designed to reward you, for making more and more accounts, instead of sticking with a single account. There are barriers, which can be easily bypassed, if you have even a single alt account. For example, then, you can disagree with yourself, and it doesn't look that strange. Or you can try more untested opinions, and lower the risk of crashing your reputation. There are many reasons, why people have a lot of alts, so maybe there are not enough incentives, to keep posting as a single user?

No self-made legendary member will choose to reset to a newbie

There are a lot of signals, that he was there before. He knows too many things too well. And he even claimed explicitly to be there since 2015.

[SamReomo]

The present merit system is better than that prestige system which you've introduced in this thread OP. I know the merit system can be improved and it can be more fair in future by allowing user's to earn merits for their contribution instead of allowing merit sources to send merits to users, but again it's not going to be easy to move to a system where users may earn merits themselves as majority of DT1 and DT2 members would disagree with such approach.

The ones who're merit sources of the forum have got their source status due to their own efforts and contributions on this forum. Thus some of them might like to send merits to those members who're their favorite members, whom they consider more merit worthy then most members but it's actually on merit source to send merits to either top members, to merit sources, or to newbies. Because they're the owners of their monthly sMerits that are given to them on monthly basis.

The current highest rank of Legendary is more than enough in my point of view, and even if someone gets 1k, 10k, or 100k merits still he/she will remain as a legendary member. However, ones merits only can't decide that he/she is a worthy member of the forum, because in past Ratimov named member also had earned so many merits in short period, but later he destroyed his reputation on this forum. So in my point of view, current ranking and merit system is okay.

[Vod]

... after becoming Legendary, there is not much more to achieve. And it is usually a good idea, to start from Newbie again, and to build the whole reputation from scratch. Maybe all Legendary accounts should have "make me newbie" button, to solve it?

May be do it like cod prestige system: You reach leggy >> you can make yourself newbie again >> you get this badge that represents you have reached leggy once >> you reach leggy again >> you get this second badge to represent you have reached leggy twice — these badges must look prestigious and must show their significance.
[/quote]

I kind of like this idea - it would give Legendary members something to work through again.   But merit cannot be considered a vehicle for such a journey.  There is no way somewith 10K merit has made 7,000 more meritable posts than I have.  It's become political.  :/

[Amphenomenon]

As Mia noted that humans are insatiable.

Yes, but it is also about something else. When you become a leggy, then some people merit some of your posts, not because of the content, but because you wrote it. And then, it is a way, to double-check (or even triple-check in his case), if you can still write great posts, or if you are merited, just because people are used to merit you, and it is just one of their habits.

Merit is not the necessary thing for writing good post, anyone who might be in the legendary rank and are posting will be rated less than that ranking even while still having that said rank and those in a lower rank can be more respected/recognise.

There are less real people, and much more alts, than many people expect. And they keep making alt accounts, because it is profitable. The whole system is designed to reward you, for making more and more accounts, instead of sticking with a single account. There are barriers, which can be easily bypassed, if you have even a single alt account. For example, then, you can disagree with yourself, and it doesn't look that strange. Or you can try more untested opinions, and lower the risk of crashing your reputation. There are many reasons, why people have a lot of alts, so maybe there are not enough incentives, to keep posting as a single user?

See this won't change account farmers and the incentives for higher rank after legendary won't change, Don Pedro Dinero spoke about other points for picking reputational members in a campaign. Even Altcointalk having higher ranks than legendary the sig pay doesn't change.

Farmers are not necessarily concerned of getting to the highest rank and even if they are they may likely have a group for cycling merits and still get to that rank. That aside, they are often interested in getting to a mid rank or hero then move to another account(s) and maybe lower accounts for competitions and merit farming. Looking at the most common cases for alt accounts at the reputation board.

[joker_josue]

The current highest rank of Legendary is more than enough in my point of view, and even if someone gets 1k, 10k, or 100k merits still he/she will remain as a legendary member. However, ones merits only can't decide that he/she is a worthy member of the forum, because in past Ratimov named member also had earned so many merits in short period, but later he destroyed his reputation on this forum. So in my point of view, current ranking and merit system is okay.

I think that's really the point, which some people forget. Having many or few merits doesn't automatically mean you're the best member on the forum. What really determines this is what that member does for the community.

There are members who aren't yet Legends who have already done more for the community than many Legends. When I see these members, I usually see them as having a lot of merit. But if one day, this member starts doing stupid things in the community, all the respect the community has for him is lost. No matter how many merits he has.

Anyway, I understand that it might be interesting to create other objectives besides Legendary. I've thought about this myself, but I've never managed to come up with a truly interesting idea. The idea we found in the OP is actually quite interesting, but honestly, I don't see anyone wanting to go back to being a "newbie," especially if it comes with the limitations that this level has. Even if it doesn't come with those limitations, I don't think most people would "click that button."

[libert19]

...The idea we found in the OP is actually quite interesting, but honestly, I don't see anyone wanting to go back to being a "newbie," especially if it comes with the limitations that this level has. Even if it doesn't come with those limitations, I don't think most people would "click that button."

You don't lose your leggy rank if you decide to make yourself start afresh, you get the badge and perks of leggy rank stand intact. It's more of thing to always feel like grinding — yes, ik it's not a game but this will constantly make user look forward to something.

I don't understand why people wouldn't click that button, they lose nothing. Though, I can see the lower ranks below leggy might lose meaning.

Also, I don't think it would be right to show, 'Brand new/newbie' — for people who choose to do it again, and idk what exactly should be shown either.