Donald Trump Summarily Executes 11 People Without a Trial

[caroasi]

Donald Trump announced he ordered the summary execution of 11 people for associating them self with Tren de Aragua, which the USA labeled as a terrorist organization with connections to Venezuela, an enemy state of the USA. He did not seek any legal process and instead simply ordered the United States military to blow up the boat in which they were in, in international waters.

What do you think? Should the USA military summarily execute people when they believe someone is associated with a terrorist group? If you believe Donald Trump overstepped his authority, what do you think should be the penalty for doing that?

Are human rights issued by governments to citizens only such that they don't apply to outsiders, or are human rights issued by natural law to all humans?

Also from a pragmatic viewpoint, will Venezuelans gain respect for the way of life of USA people by this action, or will they lose respect and instead become more attached to socialism as a competing philosophy?

Source: https://www.allsides.com/story/foreign-policy-us-strikes-alleged-tren-de-aragua-drug-boat-in-caribbean-sea

[suchmoon]

What do you think? Should the USA military summarily execute people when they believe someone is associated with a terrorist group? If you believe Donald Trump overstepped his authority, what do you think should be the penalty for doing that?

As per the SC, he can do anything he wants, up to and including murdering people he doesn't like. Also the other branches of the government supposedly doing the "checks and balances" aren't gonna do shit, not for some dead brown people when they're preoccupied with a dead pedophile, so there's that. You know, priorities of a wealthy civilized nation.

[Ucy]

Things like that are typically allowed to happen to people or animals on the wrong side and on a mission to attack innocent victims. In that case the victims or their defenders use lethal force against the potential attackers.

It could also happen if the the ones on the wrong pose serious security threats to the victims and are determined to cause serious harm to them.

Nevertheless, there should always be chances given to such people to surrender. And non-lethal attacks that are very likely to effectively immobilize them should be used first

[Hispo]

I personally believe the government of Trump carried out some misuse of force with those in the boat, allegedly transporting drugs through the Caribbean sea... Those alleged drug trafficked cold have been an useful source of information for the Trump administration, so they could have got information from them, in exchange of a shorter stay in prison, a plea deal.
Anyways, there are people who are happy with these people dying, they forget about human rights and the right people is supposed to have to get a fair trial, even if those people in boat were American citizens, Trump could get away with it, as the supreme court already gave much power to be figure of the presidency .

[BADecker]

The 11 could have stayed away. But since they came to harm others, their execution is the duty of government. Let them go to Ukraine and be drafted into Zelensky's military. Then they would see that it isn't so easy to go into a country and harm the people there.

[OgNasty]

Trump said he was going to put an end to the drug smuggling. He said he was going to use the military to do it. Nobody should be surprised by this. I actually think it is one of those most badass things I’ve seen a President make the call to do. Dems had no problem when Obama wanted to use a drone on American citizens but they’re outraged Trump used weapons on foreign drug smugglers. That’s all you need to know about Democrats.

[caroasi]

The 11 could have stayed away. But since they came to harm others, their execution is the duty of government. Let them go to Ukraine and be drafted into Zelensky's military. Then they would see that it isn't so easy to go into a country and harm the people there.

Can you name one person in the world any of these 11 people harmed in the past, or one specific person all 11 of them were together going to harm in the future? It seems like you are using a "just trust the plan" argument. If every time anyone thought "this person is thinking of harming me" was immediately summarily executed without a trial, I don't believe there would be any humans left.

Will you be so brave as to boldly say pretty much word for word that you support the summary execution of USA designated enemies without a trial (or declaration of war by USA congress against the specific country) for being accused of being associated with a terrorist organization by USA military commanders? You didn't really address any of the OP questions head on and I think that would be the bold move.

[suchmoon]

Trump said he was going to put an end to the drug smuggling. He said he was going to use the military to do it. Nobody should be surprised by this. I actually think it is one of those most badass things I’ve seen a President make the call to do. Dems had no problem when Obama wanted to use a drone on American citizens but they’re outraged Trump used weapons on foreign drug smugglers. That’s all you need to know about Democrats.

Would you still be as excited if e.g. someone (completely hypothetically) anonymously reported you as a drug smuggler and you got executed because that's the punishment for drug smuggling?

Rhetorical question of course, you'd be dead so you wouldn't be able to come here and tell us how great it was.

[franky1]

The 11 could have stayed away. But since they came to harm others, their execution is the duty of government. Let them go to Ukraine and be drafted into Zelensky's military. Then they would see that it isn't so easy to go into a country and harm the people there.

Can you name one person in the world any of these 11 people harmed in the past, or one specific person all 11 of them were together going to harm in the future?

before the strike. the border control positively identified some of the boat occupants, and knew what they were upto.. and no, the boat was not identified as greta thunbergs, or elon musks,..

they know it was a drug trafficking boat containing enough illegal narcotics to take out thousands of people.. with drug traffickers that have caused deaths of thousands in the past and would cause more deaths in the future.
 
the incident was not a case of some vigilante rambo character seeing a random boat and just wanting to hit it for funzies.. it was the case of a border patrol with intel and evidence to authorise a strike, welcome to "war on drugs" declared 1971

[caroasi]

The 11 could have stayed away. But since they came to harm others, their execution is the duty of government. Let them go to Ukraine and be drafted into Zelensky's military. Then they would see that it isn't so easy to go into a country and harm the people there.

Can you name one person in the world any of these 11 people harmed in the past, or one specific person all 11 of them were together going to harm in the future?

before the strike. the border control positively identified some of the boat occupants, and knew what they were upto.. and no, the boat was not identified as greta thunbergs, or elon musks,..

they know it was a drug trafficking boat containing enough illegal narcotics to take out thousands of people.. with drug traffickers that have caused deaths of thousands in the past and would cause more deaths in the future.
 
the incident was not a case of some vigilante rambo character seeing a random boat and just wanting to hit it for funzies.. it was the case of a border patrol with intel and evidence to authorise a strike, welcome to "war on drugs" declared 1971

8.7% of drugs which don't require a presciption are lethal if the whole package is consumed.
Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11866902/

The LD50 of sodium fluoride is 50 grams. Sodium fluoride is sold in bulk in one ton bags. So one single bag would be enough to kill 20,000 people.

Therefore, a violent person could take your same exact logic, and then blow up any boat containing one unopened package of one of those over the counter remedies purchased from a drug store. Or blow up a semi truck containing 50 grams of sodium fluoride headed to a water plant. Is that something you'd also support? Of course not.

Therefore, you've just proven the exact opposite of your point, that the shooting was highly unjustified especially by the implied logic you have provided. The implied logic you provide is that we determine how many lives are going to be lost by assuming everyone will take about what is needed to kill them, and divide that number up to arrive at the highest possible number of deaths... as if that were the purpose of the drug.

And once again, please be explicit. Do you or don't you support the on-the-spot summary execution without trial of drug smugglers? Clearly you seem to strongly support the death penalty, the death penalty without any trial of any kind, assuming guilt based on simply being in the presence of someone else also presumed and assumed to be guilty. Wow, do you apply this to any and all crimes, or just people consuming plants you or your delegated ruling class elites at the Coast Guard decree to be "dangerous"? I'm just trying to get some clear-cut principles out of your comments, but it is quite scary to think about so I'll leave that to you rather than putting any words in your mouth.

[pooya87]

This is not the first nor will it be the last time US regime murders random people like this while claiming they were the "bad guys". 9 out of 10 times they are murdering unarmed civilians like when they bombed wedding ceremony in Afghanistan, schools in Iraq, people's homes in Syria, blew up regular people's electronics (laptops, iPhones) maiming and killing 3000 civilians in Lebanon, are killing unarmed civilians in Gaza and a lot more.

Just a couple of months ago US regime carried out a series of terrorist attacks in Yemen and Trump actually tweeted a video of one of his terrorist attacks murdering unarmed civilians in cold blood whilst boasting about it on twitter.
As you can see in the picture on the right, they were just a bunch of villagers celebrating the Eid al-Fitr (last day of Ramadan) every year like this!



I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the 11 people the rogue US regime executed here were just some fishermen taking home the catch of the day.

[franky1]

8.7% of drugs which don't require a presciption are lethal if the whole package is consumed.
Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11866902/

The LD50 of sodium fluoride is 50 grams. Sodium fluoride is sold in bulk in one ton bags. So one single bag would be enough to kill 20,000 people.

Therefore, a violent person could take your same exact logic, and then blow up any boat containing one unopened package of one of those over the counter remedies purchased from a drug store. Or blow up a semi truck containing 50 grams of sodium fluoride headed to a water plant. Is that something you'd also support? Of course not.

Therefore, you've just proven the exact opposite of your point, that the shooting was highly unjustified especially by the implied logic you have provided.

the drug dealers were identified before the strike
the drugs were not toothpaste
the supplies and their delivery method were not using legal border control/customs which would control what comes in.. such as toothpaste ingredients, which do follow processes and guidelines

the drugs cartel are not delivering chemicals to then be safely manufactured in corporate factories that make products to certain standards..
.. the drugs cartel have no quality control processes they adhere to to prevent deaths

enjoy your silliness, but expect it to be called out on when its obviously silly
the strike was not on some random toothpaste salesman, nor some colgate CEO on his yacht.

try harder to learn facts and dont rely on ignorance
but im guessing your silliness is probably fuelled by a drug habit, which you want continual supply of even if it kills other people

..
but if some "badguy" was identified as wanting to supply a toothpaste ingredient to use abusively where thousands would die, and do it by evading customs.. then they too would be dealt with, especially when it becomes epidemic levels of street dealing toothpaste in lethal overdose levels

..
the situation was not one of a random boat was spotted and some dude with an apache helicopter or f-35 plane jsut flipped a coin of
heads: innocent boatguy might have quality assured, corporate manufactured toothpaste onboard, lets let him go
tails: dunno whos on boat, dunno what he has lets shoot him anyway

the reality is they did identify the guys on the boat and they know what stuff they are transporting

[OgNasty]

Donald Trump announced he ordered the summary execution of 11 people

I don't give a shit what you call it

[uchegod-21]

This sounds like jungle justice coming from the number one citizen of the US government. Even if he clearly has the interest of the US citizens at heart, a true process should be followed. Everyone has right to live, cases involving lives should not be treated the way Trump handled this; in the eyes of the law, you are innocent until proven guilty by the court of law. I love Trump's energy, however, I will not fail to admit that Trump most times can be a dictator. 

To all citizens, especially strangers in a foreign country, they should be careful with their actions in other people's countries.  Some country heads don't treat foreigners same way they treat their own people.

[Fiatless]

Donald Trump announced he ordered the summary execution of 11 people

I don't give a shit what you call it

What would have been the response of J.D. Vance if the Nigerian government ordered the execution of eleven Americans who were shipping drugs to Nigeria? Maybe Nigeria would have been another Gaza.

Your comments remind me of this quote: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" -George Orwell

[BattleDog]

Since they were designated as a foreign terrorist organization, then he's legally allowed to execute them without a trial. This was also a power-move by Trump & the US to show the severe consequences that await drug cartels as they continue their activity introducing drugs to the US.

Bottom line: Is it ethical? That's arguable and I won't get into that. Legal? Seems like it.

[Hispo]

Donald Trump announced he ordered the summary execution of 11 people

I don't give a shit what you call it

What would have been the response of J.D. Vance if the Nigerian government ordered the execution of eleven Americans who were shipping drugs to Nigeria? Maybe Nigeria would have been another Gaza.

Your comments remind me of this quote: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" -George Orwell

It is quite ironic, the government of the United States shifty called those eleven people killed terrorists, so people would disregard their killing and move on. But if you caught United States citizens doing the same in Nigeria or other developing country, then the government of that developing country would be called out, since in the mind of the average USA citizen, other Americans cannot be terrorist, that is a label specifically used for brown people and people from the middle east.
Whether we like it or not, that is how the mass of the USA thinks.

[caroasi]

8.7% of drugs which don't require a presciption are lethal if the whole package is consumed.
Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11866902/

The LD50 of sodium fluoride is 50 grams. Sodium fluoride is sold in bulk in one ton bags. So one single bag would be enough to kill 20,000 people.

Therefore, a violent person could take your same exact logic, and then blow up any boat containing one unopened package of one of those over the counter remedies purchased from a drug store. Or blow up a semi truck containing 50 grams of sodium fluoride headed to a water plant. Is that something you'd also support? Of course not.

Therefore, you've just proven the exact opposite of your point, that the shooting was highly unjustified especially by the implied logic you have provided.

the drug dealers were identified before the strike
the drugs were not toothpaste
the supplies and their delivery method were not using legal border control/customs which would control what comes in.. such as toothpaste ingredients, which do follow processes and guidelines

the drugs cartel are not delivering chemicals to then be safely manufactured in corporate factories that make products to certain standards..
.. the drugs cartel have no quality control processes they adhere to to prevent deaths

enjoy your silliness, but expect it to be called out on when its obviously silly
the strike was not on some random toothpaste salesman, nor some colgate CEO on his yacht.

try harder to learn facts and dont rely on ignorance
but im guessing your silliness is probably fuelled by a drug habit, which you want continual supply of even if it kills other people

..
but if some "badguy" was identified as wanting to supply a toothpaste ingredient to use abusively where thousands would die, and do it by evading customs.. then they too would be dealt with, especially when it becomes epidemic levels of street dealing toothpaste in lethal overdose levels

..
the situation was not one of a random boat was spotted and some dude with an apache helicopter or f-35 plane jsut flipped a coin of
heads: innocent boatguy might have quality assured, corporate manufactured toothpaste onboard, lets let him go
tails: dunno whos on boat, dunno what he has lets shoot him anyway

the reality is they did identify the guys on the boat and they know what stuff they are transporting

1. Is the death penalty ethical?
2. Is it better for the Coast Guard to A) arrest send people to trial for drug smuggling, or B) punish them without a trial based on one of their people's assessment, if those are the only two options possible?
3. Should this policy expand to other drugs like alcohol and cigarettes which definitely kill more people than other drugs, like cocaine and heroin on a total deaths basis? Yes or no?
4. Should this policy expand to sugar? Yes or no?

"The number of annual deaths attributed to sugar consumption, specifically through sugar-sweetened beverages, is estimated to be over 330,000 worldwide. These deaths are primarily due to diabetes and cardiovascular diseases linked to sugary drinks."
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/how-many-annual-deaths-can-be-oueSKf9oSNed5lbwYuPT8g

[OgNasty]

Democrats are talking about the 11 drug kingpins who got taken out while trying to poison Americans with illegal narcotics as though they are war heroes. However, no mention of the Ukrainian refugee who was slaughtered by a career criminal while she was trying to peacefully get home from work. This is all you need to know about these people.

[suchmoon]

Since they were designated as a foreign terrorist organization, then he's legally allowed to execute them without a trial.

Ignoring the second part (which is not as simple as you make it sound, e.g. there needs to be imminent danger, lack of other options such as arrest etc), who's "they" and who "designated" them? It doesn't look like there were any names published, let alone proof of them being terrorists.

Sounds like a load of BS orchestrated to make it seem like the US is "at war" with some gang so that the DOJ can use this in their deportation cases by "designating" people as being members of said gang.

11 drug kingpins

Oh they're kingpins now. 11 of them. On a boat somewhere in the Caribbean. I'm sure you have proof of that but just too busy to post it.