Is provably fairness something important you?

[mak013]

As for me, casino games are not about profit, so i play just to lose some money and relax. For me it is not something important - to know if my rolls are fair. The only thing that is matter for me in such games - is to win something time to time.

The only thing i don`t like is to play card games in casino with bots, i always feel doubts if casino knows my hand or next cards we would see.

It’s important if you are playing on casino that still new and no solid reputation since provably fair games can be used to exploit users that doesn’t know how to verify fairness of the game.

But if you are playing on reputable casino I think this is not a big deal anymore to check frequently since casino will not put their reputation on the line considering that they will surely win in the end without cheating due to house edge.

In general, it’s still advisable to regularly check whether the game is provably fair since casino usually provide checker too in the casino.

I prefer well known casinos. But for random games i use so small sum that i lose more time checking the game than if i just forget it.

If a gambling site is manipulating, people will start to suspect from how they continue gambling but they continue to lose without a single win. Although gamblers can also notice this on all gambling sites including the ones that have provably fair games. As for me all care about is what people are saying about a casino. If they are saying it is good, having good customer service, including having good deposits and withdrawals, with trustworthy reputation, I can make use of the site.

If i have no wind for a long time - i will change casino - maths says that i have to win time to time, and TRP says that it must be not to rare. And you`re right about gamblers feed back and casinos` reputation. I prefer well-known casinos too.

[mikel_012]

Many people run code that verifies all games so you don't need to check all of them manually which is a waste of time and a lot of work.

Which tool/website are you referring to? Is there a dedicated website that tracks how a game works? I can't remember if there's a tool like that. Last time I checked, some casinos offer the code to verify, while others buy a script from others, so we can assume the code is more or less the same. I don't think those 1000s games are unique to each other to begin with, at best they offer modification or different UI while the logic is similar to other similar games. CMIIW.

I don't know which casino you use, so I can not recommend anything. But if you know how to code software you can make one that checks all games to make sure the result is legit and if it's not you can just report this to the casino or to the communities like bitcointalk so they give you a compensation or get blacklisted for cheating players

If you search for provably fair on github you see many examples of codes to use and to make your own

[batang_bitcoin]

I believe this too. If they're lucky, they are lucky and if they lose, they'd lose. As long as it's done from a reputable casino, they won't think twice if there's provably fair applied to them because they'd mostly believe that there is.

While makinuse of a very popular casino the likelihood to check  if their games are provably fair would hardly stick with you because the idea that its an already popular casino and there would be person other than you who would have done that already hence their popularity.

True, if you are not meticulous then someone that used the same casino have done it already. And that's why it's no longer that important for us when we have sole trust to that casino.

The only time gamblers get worried about how fair the system of a casino is, is when they're using a newly established casino that is still struggling with the industry competition.

Not only that, we're mostly concerned in our withdrawals rather than verifying the games that we've played on them. It's the most important thing that many gamblers are thinking of and we can't deny that matter.

[Lanatsa]

I don't have much content to give here, and neither do I know in-depth about provably fairness, but little do I understand is that — provably fairness means, your rolls aren't manipulated and results of your rolls are fair (cmiiw).

Question being, if casino you play on has provably fairness checker or it gives you data that you can use on online tools to verify your bets (for ex, https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/) ; now how many times you actually verify your bets? And is provably fairness really important to you or can you do without it?  

On irrelevant note: For good while I read it as, 'probably fair' instead of 'provably fair'.

Yes, definitely!!!

Provably Fair is a super useful feature of many people underestimate until to day they actually need it
Obviously, no one will manually check every bet, but the simple fact that there is a feature for you to independently audit already your games, significantly changes the casino's relationship of trust with its players, you don't agree me? Who would provide a self verification tool on a platform that cheats on results? That would be terrible for the casino's reputation.

Without Provably Fair everything will depend 100% on the platform's good faith, and that's where the reputation thing comes in: "Oh... but the casino is a well established, it's trustworthy, and blah blah blah." But it's like with cryptocurrencies: "You should not trust, you should verify." This is one of the key concepts of decentralization... anyone can verify the veracity of information.
I think we should all remember that trust is built both on honest actions and on the ability to prove those actions.

Provably fair also gives a kind of psychological comfort for players because when you know there is a system that can be checked you play with less doubt and more confidence this doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to win but at least you are not fighting against a rigged machine the results are still random but random in a verifiable way and that’s the key difference. Many players ignore it because they think big casinos won’t risk their names by cheating but history shows that even well known houses have manipulated odds in the past so having a tool that proves fairness is like having insurance you may not use it every day but when you need it you will be glad it’s there it becomes less about trust and more about mathematics and transparency which is exactly what makes crypto gambling unique.

So even if most people don’t bother verifying often the existence of provably fair is already shaping the industry it forces casinos to be more honest or risk being called out it empowers players to not just be passive consumers but active checkers of fairness and that in itself is a big shift.

[Fundamentals Of]

Being completely honest, I’m probably not going to take the time to make sure that every game I play is provably honest. That is why I think playing at a reputable casino is important. I’m sure that casinos I play at have had their share of audits in order to reach the position to where I’d consider playing there.

Yes, one of the reasons why we are better off playing at a casino that has a good reputation is so that we don't have to bother trying to find out whether the casino is proven to be fair or not, for me a good reputation is enough to convince myself, and also I don't really care about that actually, because winning is not a priority for me, but of course I will also be very happy if I manage to win, the most important thing for me is that I feel entertained in the game process.

It is all right to lose while gambling, but will you still be entertained if you lose in an unfair game? Just because you are gambling for entertainment does not mean it is okay to play in a casino that does not have solid proofs of being fair.

Although I agree with you that a good reputation is often enough, it is of course much better if a casino gives every user the ability to verify the fairness himself. 'Don't trust, verify' is the Bitcoin motto that many practice even in gambling.

[Mindyspace]

In my opinion, this is a very personal issue. You can simply trust the casino and not worry about it, or you can choose to check the results every time you bet. If you don't feel comfortable, you can also switch to another casino you consider more trustworthy. Still, I believe most people don't check that all the results are correct.

[Accardo]

In my opinion, this is a very personal issue. You can simply trust the casino and not worry about it, or you can choose to check the results every time you bet. If you don't feel comfortable, you can also switch to another casino you consider more trustworthy. Still, I believe most people don't check that all the results are correct.

Players always run to a trustworthy casino like birds to houselights. There'll be no essence going through the check, analysis, or verification if the house has proven to keep their own side of the bargain. Which is literally what provably fair is all about.

[Hispo]

In my opinion, this is a very personal issue. You can simply trust the casino and not worry about it, or you can choose to check the results every time you bet. If you don't feel comfortable, you can also switch to another casino you consider more trustworthy. Still, I believe most people don't check that all the results are correct.

Right, most gamblers don't even check whether results they are getting are fair and there is nothing wrong going on with their numbers, but only because the majority of people do not do it, it does not mean it should not be an option to be able to verify fairness on one's favorite casino games, you know.
There should always be an option for anyone to cryptographically check fairness on casinos.

It reminds me a bit about the debate on freedom of speech in the United States and also on privacy. Only because one does not have something to say, it does not mean there should not be warranties for others to be free to say whatever they want...

[nullama]

~snip~
Right, most gamblers don't even check whether results they are getting are fair and there is nothing wrong going on with their numbers, but only because the majority of people do not do it, it does not mean it should not be an option to be able to verify fairness on one's favorite casino games, you know.
There should always be an option for anyone to cryptographically check fairness on casinos.

It reminds me a bit about the debate on freedom of speech in the United States and also on privacy. Only because one does not have something to say, it does not mean there should not be warranties for others to be free to say whatever they want...

Yes, I think it's just the fact that doing due diligence is actually boring.

Most people just want to have fun, entertainment, etc. They don't want to think.

I guess it's in the interest of the casinos to keep things like that.

[letteredhub]

I believe this too. If they're lucky, they are lucky and if they lose, they'd lose. As long as it's done from a reputable casino, they won't think twice if there's provably fair applied to them because they'd mostly believe that there is.

While makinuse of a very popular casino the likelihood to check  if their games are provably fair would hardly stick with you because the idea that its an already popular casino and there would be person other than you who would have done that already hence their popularity.

True, if you are not meticulous then someone that used the same casino have done it already. And that's why it's no longer that important for us when we have sole trust to that casino. 

But it can serve our best interests doing that on our own if we know the procedures to arrive at it, it would boost out confidence the more that we know for our own that we're definitely using a platform with provably fair games than whwn we deoend on others.

The only time gamblers get worried about how fair the system of a casino is, is when they're using a newly established casino that is still struggling with the industry competition.

Not only that, we're mostly concerned in our withdrawals rather than verifying the games that we've played on them. It's the most important thing that many gamblers are thinking of and we can't deny that matter.

Our concerns for withdrawals are mutual. withdrawals makes the heart of a gambler happier as it's the next appropriate thing to follow after an entertaining time of gambling subsequent to a lucky profitable wins made.

[DPHOR]

~snip~
Right, most gamblers don't even check whether results they are getting are fair and there is nothing wrong going on with their numbers, but only because the majority of people do not do it, it does not mean it should not be an option to be able to verify fairness on one's favorite casino games, you know.
There should always be an option for anyone to cryptographically check fairness on casinos.

It reminds me a bit about the debate on freedom of speech in the United States and also on privacy. Only because one does not have something to say, it does not mean there should not be warranties for others to be free to say whatever they want...

Yes, I think it's just the fact that doing due diligence is actually boring.

Most people just want to have fun, entertainment, etc. They don't want to think.

I guess it's in the interest of the casinos to keep things like that.

The major reason most people gamble is not just about fun and yes they tend to have fun but when there money is not doubling as they think you would start seeing that interesting could began to decrease due to low expectations of how they should feel of having their results. But whenever it's not as planned they felt disappointed then channels it to having fun while in them they aren't that pleased with what they sees.

[mirakal]

I don't have much content to give here, and neither do I know in-depth about provably fairness, but little do I understand is that — provably fairness means, your rolls aren't manipulated and results of your rolls are fair (cmiiw).

Question being, if casino you play on has provably fairness checker or it gives you data that you can use on online tools to verify your bets (for ex, https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/) ; now how many times you actually verify your bets? And is provably fairness really important to you or can you do without it?  

On irrelevant note: For good while I read it as, 'probably fair' instead of 'provably fair'.

I think pretty much all the respectable casinos are provably fair.

That basically means that they are not manipulating the odds.

It doesn't mean that the odds are good for the gambler though, the odds are still better for the casino.

The odds will always be in favor with the casino, that’s for certain. It’s their business so they will do everything to make it thrive. It’s just that with provably fair games, you can’t experience being rigged nor cheated, because that’s the ultimate goal of provably fair games, to serve fairness and justice for everyone who’s gambling.

[Cointxz]

The odds will always be in favor with the casino, that’s for certain. It’s their business so they will do everything to make it thrive. It’s just that with provably fair games, you can’t experience being rigged nor cheated, because that’s the ultimate goal of provably fair games, to serve fairness and justice for everyone who’s gambling.

Correct. Provably fair system guarantees that the result is fair based on winning percentage set on the specific bet and its completely random based on the code design to determine result.

The odds of the game is always based on the settings while the advantage of the casino comes on the payout which they will apply the house edge.

So a 50% winning chance should be 50-50 result.

[nullama]

~snip~
The odds will always be in favor with the casino, that’s for certain. It’s their business so they will do everything to make it thrive. It’s just that with provably fair games, you can’t experience being rigged nor cheated, because that’s the ultimate goal of provably fair games, to serve fairness and justice for everyone who’s gambling.

Yeah, that's right.

But I would have expected that being provable fair would be a requirement to get the license to operate in any country, really...

I mean, if you can't prove that your machines are giving you a fair result, then of course they could just scam everyone.

[serjent05]

Provably fair is important for players especially those who plays regularly with huge bankroll.  As a person who gamble, even though I only have a small bankroll, provably fair is also important to me. I do not regularly check the hashes but I do once in a while just for curiosity. It is probably because I trust the casino platform I am playing with.

But I would have expected that being provable fair would be a requirement to get the license to operate in any country, really...

I mean, if you can't prove that your machines are giving you a fair result, then of course they could just scam everyone.

I agree that the program/machine should be tested for its provably fair before it is implemented in any licensed casino platform.  As far as I know, there is a regular audit to ensure that the program/machine is functioning as declared.

[₿itcoin]

In my opinion, this is a very personal issue. You can simply trust the casino and not worry about it, or you can choose to check the results every time you bet. If you don't feel comfortable, you can also switch to another casino you consider more trustworthy. Still, I believe most people don't check that all the results are correct.

Right, most gamblers don't even check whether results they are getting are fair and there is nothing wrong going on with their numbers, but only because the majority of people do not do it, it does not mean it should not be an option to be able to verify fairness on one's favorite casino games, you know.
There should always be an option for anyone to cryptographically check fairness on casinos.

It reminds me a bit about the debate on freedom of speech in the United States and also on privacy. Only because one does not have something to say, it does not mean there should not be warranties for others to be free to say whatever they want...

Provably Fair is very important in the online world, especially in Bitcoin casinos I think it is a must have. Most of the casinos that do not have Provably Fair are suspicious and opaque. Because with it you can check the server seed, client seed, nonce etc. yourself and understand how the results are determined. So the casino cannot change the odds without your knowledge after you place your bet. You may be lazy in using verification tools or blindly trust your casino, but if we all do this, the casino will always take advantage of our stupidity. Whether we verify or not it does not make PF useless.

However I agree that PF is not a perfect shield, some casinos abuse it or create the illusion of fairness (marketing rather than implementation) so reputation and audit should always be checked. So yes, it should be optional for those who want to verify, and for others it is still important because it keeps the industry honest.

[Inwestour]

I don't have much content to give here, and neither do I know in-depth about provably fairness, but little do I understand is that — provably fairness means, your rolls aren't manipulated and results of your rolls are fair (cmiiw).

Question being, if casino you play on has provably fairness checker or it gives you data that you can use on online tools to verify your bets (for ex, https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/) ; now how many times you actually verify your bets? And is provably fairness really important to you or can you do without it?  

On irrelevant note: For good while I read it as, 'probably fair' instead of 'provably fair'.

I rarely bet on statistics, so I almost never track or check stats like corners, cards, fouls, shots, throws, and so on. But I think if there were serious discrepancies, there would be a lot of information about it. Besides casinos, there are also official sources that keep complete statistics, and I believe casinos rely precisely on this official data. They cannot change it in their favor because that would harm the casino’s reputation.

[AVE5]

Many people run code that verifies all games so you don't need to check all of them manually which is a waste of time and a lot of work.

Which tool/website are you referring to? Is there a dedicated website that tracks how a game works? I can't remember if there's a tool like that. Last time I checked, some casinos offer the code to verify, while others buy a script from others, so we can assume the code is more or less the same. I don't think those 1000s games are unique to each other to begin with, at best they offer modification or different UI while the logic is similar to other similar games. CMIIW.

I don't know which casino you use, so I can not recommend anything. But if you know how to code software you can make one that checks all games to make sure the result is legit and if it's not you can just report this to the casino or to the communities like bitcointalk so they give you a compensation or get blacklisted for cheating players

If we doubt the casino's fairness reputations towards every single games from players, how guaranteed is the external tool to check this fairness status? I just keep asking because at the end of it'll the tools will propagate panics amongst casino's and users and it'll be improvable to be trusted since it's individually created tool that the casino didn't approve provable in their own platforms. So the tool can't be convinceable to prove it genuineness.

[Hispo]

In my opinion, this is a very personal issue. You can simply trust the casino and not worry about it, or you can choose to check the results every time you bet. If you don't feel comfortable, you can also switch to another casino you consider more trustworthy. Still, I believe most people don't check that all the results are correct.

Right, most gamblers don't even check whether results they are getting are fair and there is nothing wrong going on with their numbers, but only because the majority of people do not do it, it does not mean it should not be an option to be able to verify fairness on one's favorite casino games, you know.
There should always be an option for anyone to cryptographically check fairness on casinos.

It reminds me a bit about the debate on freedom of speech in the United States and also on privacy. Only because one does not have something to say, it does not mean there should not be warranties for others to be free to say whatever they want...

Provably Fair is very important in the online world, especially in Bitcoin casinos I think it is a must have. Most of the casinos that do not have Provably Fair are suspicious and opaque. Because with it you can check the server seed, client seed, nonce etc. yourself and understand how the results are determined. So the casino cannot change the odds without your knowledge after you place your bet. You may be lazy in using verification tools or blindly trust your casino, but if we all do this, the casino will always take advantage of our stupidity. Whether we verify or not it does not make PF useless.

However I agree that PF is not a perfect shield, some casinos abuse it or create the illusion of fairness (marketing rather than implementation) so reputation and audit should always be checked. So yes, it should be optional for those who want to verify, and for others it is still important because it keeps the industry honest.

If Bitcoin is about sending a receiving money, not trusting but verifying. Then gambling with Bitcoin should also be about not trusting blindly but also to verify one's outcome and have a clear idea on what is going on.

When you mention audits, I don't know who that could be implemented since audits are a type of commerce of trust, let us say. There are companies with profit out their trustworthiness and their reputation is their best assets, but Bitcoin and Bitcoin gambling should not need to rely on an auditor for us to gamble calmly, without assuming there something wrong with the software of casino games.

Sadly, casinos and game providers will never feel comfortable enough to provide the source code of their games and make them free software.

[AmoreJaz]

I don't have much content to give here, and neither do I know in-depth about provably fairness, but little do I understand is that — provably fairness means, your rolls aren't manipulated and results of your rolls are fair (cmiiw).

Question being, if casino you play on has provably fairness checker or it gives you data that you can use on online tools to verify your bets (for ex, https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/) ; now how many times you actually verify your bets? And is provably fairness really important to you or can you do without it?  

On irrelevant note: For good while I read it as, 'probably fair' instead of 'provably fair'.

I rarely bet on statistics, so I almost never track or check stats like corners, cards, fouls, shots, throws, and so on. But I think if there were serious discrepancies, there would be a lot of information about it. Besides casinos, there are also official sources that keep complete statistics, and I believe casinos rely precisely on this official data. They cannot change it in their favor because that would harm the casino’s reputation.

In the early days of online crypto gambling, provable fairness is a very important factor as most casinos were operating anonymously and without license. Nowadays, very few gamblers are using this provably fairness tool or so it seems. It is now more on the reputation and credibility of the casino, on how they give trust to a specific casino. Because it is time consuming if you will verify every bet. So the notion that a licensed and reputable casino won't jeopardize their reputation, would always abide the provable fairness in their system at all times.
It may be important but with the current scenario, most are just depending on how credible and trustworthy the casino is.