[Resolved]

[CreepyUncleJoe]

It is. I've left bennettwinna negative feedback, and if you think they are "scammy", you should do the same.

Done.

[SmartBusiness001]

I'm still waiting on Max to resolve this, my Winna account has been closed so I can't request the withdraw.

There's really nothing I can do the same way a normal person cannot challenge the big institutions I also cannot get in a fight with a casino. I'll accept the loss and move on.

Throwing away $5,000 is quite a lot of money in my country. It doesn't seem fair for a big name like Winna to get a bad reputation for not paying out the full $85,000.

Winna is one of the newer, emerging casinos, so it's worth considering this issue.

[Drett]

We've come to an agreement with Max for $5000, of course I am not happy about the outcome but I don't have the mental energy to linger on it longer.

from $80k to $5k? Personally, I wouldn't accept that offer, especially if I know I didn't do anything wrong. Anyway, at least you got something out of your supposed $80k winnings.

I'm marking this thread as resolved and hopefully I will receive my withdraw.

If you don't mind, update us when you finally withdraw your funds.

I'm still waiting on Max to resolve this, my Winna account has been closed so I can't request the withdraw.

There's really nothing I can do the same way a normal person cannot challenge the big institutions I also cannot get in a fight with a casino. I'll accept the loss and move on.

Sorry this happened to you. Winna also did me wrong and confiscated my winnings.

[CreepyUncleJoe]

Look at how the first post was edited. They literally paid $5,000 for this. Or is the guy still waiting to get paid? What a scam.

Had a long chat with Winna representatives. Max has been very helpful. I do understand both sides here. Yes I have used card counting techniques and understand that this may be against TOS. I would advise everyone to not do card counting online.

[logfiles]

You misred it, they're only paying $5k from the $80k that is owed. Futhermore, I've been in-contact with MaxWinna - Head of operations. He said he's going to pay the $5k up 2 days ago, however it's been delayed and delayed, so far no response today.

So help me understand this. Why is the accusation marked as resolved, then, if they haven't been paid yet?

I would also like you to read what is currently written in the OP right now. What does it mean to you?

Had a long chat with Winna representatives. Max has been very helpful. I do understand both sides here. Yes I have used card counting techniques and understand that this may be against TOS. I would advise everyone to not do card counting online.

Why is he admitting to committing such allegations if he was truly innocent?

[LoyceV]

Had a long chat with Winna representatives. Max has been very helpful. I do understand both sides here. Yes I have used card counting techniques and understand that this may be against TOS. I would advise everyone to not do card counting online.

Why is he admitting to committing such allegations if he was truly innocent?

Who knows? Maybe he got threatened, maybe he's hoping to get $5k. The TOS didn't mention "card counting", and it doesn't make sense in an online casino. Even in brick and mortar casinos it's not illegal, all they can do is ban you from playing. But they'll still have to pay your winnings.

I would advise everyone to not do card counting online.

Lol.

I'll fix it for you: I would advise anyone not to gamble online.

[Little Mouse]

Who knows? Maybe he got threatened, maybe he's hoping to get $5k.

Winna instructed him to mark the case as resolved

Did Winna tell them? I'm not really sure, but the OP's so-called lawyer (a scammer for sure) has used his thread as a threat to Winna and proposed a solution (which means an amount, not 80k). Then again, the OP's lawyer has proposed deleting the thread once they come to a solution, while Paul has told exactly the opposite (he sees nothing wrong with the thread and said "no need to delete").

https://imgur.com/a/qXob10R

Edit-
@LoyceV, the winnings were from Mines, but the fund he used for playing "Mines" was winnings from card counting, which he is not the owner of.

[Shishir99]

Has this thread already taken a 360-degree turn? I think so after seeing the OP. The player basically admits his fault, and based on his statement, it seems he is guilty. Now, it is unclear whether Winna offered him $ 5,000 to delete the thread. Little Mouse says that OP's lawyer has proposed deleting the thread once they come to a solution, while Paul has told exactly the opposite (he sees nothing wrong with the thread and said "no need to delete").

I was blaming Winna just because I thought Winna offered OP to delete this thread for $ 5,000 instead of paying him $ 80,000.

[noviesol]

OP won 80k on Mines (Winna Original) with funds he won from Blackjack Pragmatic Play (Card counting).

Winna told OP to do KYC for payout.

OP did KYC and didn't get paid out.

Instead OP got sued by Winna.

Winna offers $5000 to settle this.

OP takes $5000 and marks it resovled.

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

Hey guys, Little Mouse asked me to jump in here.

He didn't mention the thread or the case, he just asked me if card counting is possible online and if it's flagged by the provider and the operator, and the answer is yes to everything.

I've had the pleasure of working with Pragmatic Play (and almost all other live casino providers). There's a lot of effort being placed into mechanisms revealing cheaters and card counters. There are recordings of each game, and people who manually review these things have been in the industry for years and are doing this 40 hours per week + have software with decades of data. It's like a kid with chocolate on his nose telling his mom that he didn't eat it, the kid thinks he's smart, but mum saw that a million times + did it herself as a kid.

The TOS didn't mention "card counting", and it doesn't make sense in an online casino.

Card counting falls under the anti-fraud policy, we can't specifically ban it, that would cause too much reputation damage, but we can (and will) enforce it through that point.

Even in brick and mortar casinos it's not illegal, all they can do is ban you from playing. But they'll still have to pay your winnings.

This is true. Winnings for that specific gaming session would be paid out, and the user would get banned. This case is a bit different though, the user had two (or more) separate sessions and clearly showed a pattern of manipulation.

I'll fix it for you: I would advise anyone not to gamble online.

You know that I need to defend this I would advise anyone looking to earn money to not gamble online. Gambling is and should only be a form entertainment. Same as one shouldn't expect to earn money from Netflix.

[noviesol]

Do you @SirJohnVonSlotty know whether Winna can classify winnings from card counting on Pragmatic as fraudulent, and therefore invalidate any winnings made with those funds?

Maybe it is a casino specific question but I don't think u can confiscate winnings from playing Blackjack, right?

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

Do you @SirJohnVonSlotty know whether Winna can classify winnings from card counting on Pragmatic as fraudulent, and therefore invalidate any winnings made with those funds?

Maybe it is a casino specific question but I don't think u can confiscate winnings from playing Blackjack, right?

You can confiscate anything if you have enough proof and if the license that you're holding isn't strong enough. With black casinos no one wants to pay off winnings, but with an MGA or a state licensed casino? You have to.

Winna, as the casino, doesn't have the recordings and the review team, Pragmatic has it, so it was initiated by Winna and reviewed by Pragmatic.

[Rating Place]

Do you @SirJohnVonSlotty know whether Winna can classify winnings from card counting on Pragmatic as fraudulent, and therefore invalidate any winnings made with those funds?

Maybe it is a casino specific question but I don't think u can confiscate winnings from playing Blackjack, right?

You can confiscate anything if you have enough proof and if the license that you're holding isn't strong enough. With black casinos no one wants to pay off winnings, but with an MGA or a state licensed casino? You have to.

Winna, as the casino, doesn't have the recordings and the review team, Pragmatic has it, so it was initiated by Winna and reviewed by Pragmatic.

How many decks and penetration?

[Woodie]

OP won 80k on Mines (Winna Original) with funds he won from Blackjack Pragmatic Play (Card counting).

The numbers are unreal, so OP had $1000 left on their account but managed to flip that account to $80K, damn some good mines player right there.

OP takes $5000 and marks it resovled.

With OP nowhere to be seen, it's safe to assume he/she finally got paid per their agreement.. otherwise the extra 75k would have been juicy  

OP once you get settled and all destructions get off your mind, grind on those mine games you have the skill, good luck.

[noviesol]

OP won 80k on Mines (Winna Original) with funds he won from Blackjack Pragmatic Play (Card counting).

The numbers are unreal, so OP had $1000 left on their account but managed to flip that account to $80K, damn some good mines player right there.

OP takes $5000 and marks it resovled.

With OP nowhere to be seen, it's safe to assume he/she finally got paid per their agreement.. otherwise the extra 75k would have been juicy  

OP once you get settled and all destructions get off your mind, grind on those mine games you have the skill, good luck.

If a big casino has your name, photo, home address, and all your other personal details, and they sue you or use other tactics to pressure you into a corner, I’d take the $5,000 as well rather than being threatened every day.

Even when u are right there is no chance a rogue casino would pay out your winnings. Eventually, the $80.000 win was really lucky but it is frustrating if u get lucky for once and don't get paid.

[LoyceV]

You know that I need to defend this I would advise anyone looking to earn money to not gamble online. Gambling is and should only be a form entertainment.

That's like saying we should have world peace: everyone will agree, but reality is different. People gamble to win, if it would be only for entertainment, they could run minesweeper on their local system.

Same as one shouldn't expect to earn money from Netflix.

Netflix doesn't offer users the option to make a profit, casinos do.

damn some good mines player right there.
~
OP once you get settled and all destructions get off your mind, grind on those mine games you have the skill, good luck.

You can't be "good" at playing random games. There's no reason to assume you can reproduce it.

[coupable]

Hey guys, Little Mouse asked me to jump in here.

He didn't mention the thread or the case, he just asked me if card counting is possible online and if it's flagged by the provider and the operator, and the answer is yes to everything.

I've had the pleasure of working with Pragmatic Play (and almost all other live casino providers). There's a lot of effort being placed into mechanisms revealing cheaters and card counters. There are recordings of each game, and people who manually review these things have been in the industry for years and are doing this 40 hours per week + have software with decades of data.

If card counting is considered as a way of manipulation and considered against AML policies even without mentioning this clearly in the TOS, and if OP is confirmed to be a manipulator after flagged by the system with the game provider behind, why winna casino proposed 5000$ for OP after posting this accusation thread? (We still don't know if they have really asked him to mark the case as resolved but this is what Op said). If their position is legit, why suggest a compensation?

[rickez3]

Hey guys, Little Mouse asked me to jump in here.

He didn't mention the thread or the case, he just asked me if card counting is possible online and if it's flagged by the provider and the operator, and the answer is yes to everything.

I've had the pleasure of working with Pragmatic Play (and almost all other live casino providers). There's a lot of effort being placed into mechanisms revealing cheaters and card counters. There are recordings of each game, and people who manually review these things have been in the industry for years and are doing this 40 hours per week + have software with decades of data.

If card counting is considered as a way of manipulation and considered against AML policies even without mentioning this clearly in the TOS, and if OP is confirmed to be a manipulator after flagged by the system with the game provider behind, why winna casino proposed 5000$ for OP after posting this accusation thread? (We still don't know if they have really asked him to mark the case as resolved but this is what Op said). If their position is legit, why suggest a compensation?

Card counting doesnt mean anything. Its basically saying, oh you arent allowed to use your brain lol. And its not mentioned in TOS, and the amount of decks used and the relative position of the cut card, make it almost impossible to be successfull with counting cards anyway.. they are a complete joke and im happy they are proving it here.

Oh and you cannot manipulate anything. The cards come out of the shoe in a random order. You cannot ever change this, or manipulatie the software/live dealers to suddenly draw different cards.

Card counting falls under the anti-fraud policy, we can't specifically ban it, that would cause too much reputation damage, but we can (and will) enforce it through that point.

Loooooool. Fraud??? Wtf what are they smoking lol.

[coupable]

Hey guys, Little Mouse asked me to jump in here.

He didn't mention the thread or the case, he just asked me if card counting is possible online and if it's flagged by the provider and the operator, and the answer is yes to everything.

I've had the pleasure of working with Pragmatic Play (and almost all other live casino providers). There's a lot of effort being placed into mechanisms revealing cheaters and card counters. There are recordings of each game, and people who manually review these things have been in the industry for years and are doing this 40 hours per week + have software with decades of data.

If card counting is considered as a way of manipulation and considered against AML policies even without mentioning this clearly in the TOS, and if OP is confirmed to be a manipulator after flagged by the system with the game provider behind, why winna casino proposed 5000$ for OP after posting this accusation thread? (We still don't know if they have really asked him to mark the case as resolved but this is what Op said). If their position is legit, why suggest a compensation?

Card counting doesnt mean anything. Its basically saying, oh you arent allowed to use your brain lol. And its not mentioned in TOS, and the amount of decks used and the relative position of the cut card, make it almost impossible to be successfull with counting cards anyway.. they are a complete joke and im happy they are proving it here.

Oh and you cannot manipulate anything. The cards come out of the shoe in a random order. You cannot ever change this, or manipulatie the software/live dealers to suddenly draw different cards.

Card counting falls under the anti-fraud policy, we can't specifically ban it, that would cause too much reputation damage, but we can (and will) enforce it through that point.

Loooooool. Fraud??? Wtf what are they smoking lol.

Although the opinion of SirJohn mentioned seems to be somewhat rational, given that I am not an expert in the gambling industry deeply, and considering that I trust the opinion of SirJohn as a reputable forum member known for his wisdom and experience in the gambling field, I am still wondering about what can be the mechanisms or algorithms used to monitor card counting. I believe that card counting is a mental process that is automatically performed by the human brain, and it cannot be canceled or people motivated to stop doing it.

Also, if card counting falls under the anti-fraud policy, what should be the reason not to explain this in TOS? Offering 5000$ compensation rises more red flags.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

@Bitcoin_Arena Since you're the rep for winna.com, why dont you chime in?
theres so many scam accusations against winna.com with their shady business, yet you haven't responded to anything?

I am not the representative of winna.com. Now sure why you tagged me here since you already know two of their representative accounts. They have already chimed in via the different threads and have also stated sometimes that if you don't agree with their verdict, you are free to use other means to approach the case, either through third-party mediators or licensing bodies.