(RESOLVED) 2up.io Refusing to pay a bet

[holydarkness]

OP, with no intention to question your narrative, rather to collect as many information as can be collected before drawing conclusion, perhaps it's a good idea to provide your transaction history as well, to show that there were no fund getting out [withdrawn] from the account that will contribute to a factor in the calculation.

And, 2UP.io, same as you too, with no intention to question your narrative, and so on and so on, perhaps it's a good idea to show us the log of those double refund?

Here it is

https://gyazo.com/fc7e3d5ef707ad354779757c4cc0f8c2

But even if i had withdrawn or deposited, the math would not match.

[Slightly editing OP's post by adding a view-able image from talkimg]

Exactly what we want to prove, or rather disprove. The math wouldn't match if you withdrawn the amount refunded in between the date. Thus, the request and above screenshot to eliminate that possibility, as it proves that you didn't withdraw anything in between.

So, 2UP.io, I would really appreciate it if you can perhaps reconfirm with your financial department regarding the first refund that was meant to be just seconds apart from the bet being placed.


Edit: OP, perhaps it's a good idea to show us what "Todas as Moedas" [all currencies] tab shows?

[T1HGO]

OP, with no intention to question your narrative, rather to collect as many information as can be collected before drawing conclusion, perhaps it's a good idea to provide your transaction history as well, to show that there were no fund getting out [withdrawn] from the account that will contribute to a factor in the calculation.

And, 2UP.io, same as you too, with no intention to question your narrative, and so on and so on, perhaps it's a good idea to show us the log of those double refund?

Here it is

https://gyazo.com/fc7e3d5ef707ad354779757c4cc0f8c2

But even if i had withdrawn or deposited, the math would not match.

[Slightly editing OP's post by adding a view-able image from talkimg]

Exactly what we want to prove, or rather disprove. The math wouldn't match if you withdrawn the amount refunded in between the date. Thus, the request and above screenshot to eliminate that possibility, as it proves that you didn't withdraw anything in between.

So, 2UP.io, I would really appreciate it if you can perhaps reconfirm with your financial department regarding the first refund that was meant to be just seconds apart from the bet being placed.


Edit: OP, perhaps it's a good idea to show us what "Todas as Moedas" [all currencies] tab shows?

https://gyazo.com/7611715170a6673a651c56216e4896ea
It simply opens that little list.

holydarkness, can you confirm that my math is correct and that indeed not only received a double refund or the bet was paid. Because i feel like my word is worth nothing here. So if it's you confirming it the weight is completly different.

[Rating Place]

So the whole case comes down to 2up cancelling claiming odds provider error. The error is on the side of 2up, not the provider. When 2up sends confirmation to the player, the bet is good.

[T1HGO]

So the whole case comes down to 2up cancelling claiming odds provider error. The error is on the side of 2up, not the provider. When 2up sends confirmation to the player, the bet is good.

Pretty much yes. But i am starting to be concerned because in both interventions by their representative, he has done nothing but provide false information.


Quoting some claims from representative.
"1) Your first bet attempt at 09:33
This bet (odds 4.08) never reached the provider. In esports betting, all casinos depend on external providers to accept the bet. When the provider doesn’t register it, the bet doesn’t exist for any operator.

Because of that, the system automatically returned your stake within seconds. That’s why you were able to place the same bet again later, and you might've seen that value on your account.
"

Everything here is false, My first bet attempt was 8.20am, and the odds were 3.80. And the system did not return the stake within seconds, but after 48 hours. Check comment number #1 and #14.

"2) Your second bet at 16:20
This one (odds 3.80) was registered normally and you were paid €772.39, which is already in your balance.
So as per our understanding, the first bet simply failed to register, and the second one was paid as usual."

Another false statement, my second bet was placed at 9.20am and it was a loss, (MOUZ vs Roar gaming).
He's talking about the first bet being the second one. Damn even my head is spinning with so much confusion. I can imagine how confusing these claims must be to verify. But i am giving everyone the tools to verify it.


"The first refund was processed automatically on 2025-11-15 17:33:19, and the second was issued manually on 2025-11-16 23:30:48 this was a human error on our part as it was only meant to be returned once. This resulted in a $219.38 USD risk-free profit from a bet that had not been registered on our side.
In situations where a bet is not properly registered, the industry standard — which we follow — is to refund the stake to avoid any confusion or disputes. I understand you’re quite familiar with betting operations, so I trust this explanation provides some clarity."

Another false statement. There was never a second refund nor the only was processed in any of the dates claimed. Check comments #26 and #38.

So i don't know what's the end goal here from the representative with so many false statements. Remains to see if it's on purpose, or it's a genuine mistake of wrong information on their part. But i'm not gonna lie i am starting to be concerned about their stance so far.

[Rating Place]

So the whole case comes down to 2up cancelling claiming odds provider error. The error is on the side of 2up, not the provider. When 2up sends confirmation to the player, the bet is good.

Pretty much yes. But i am starting to be concerned because in both interventions by their representative, he has done nothing but provide false information.


Quoting some claims from representative.
"1) Your first bet attempt at 09:33
This bet (odds 4.08) never reached the provider. In esports betting, all casinos depend on external providers to accept the bet. When the provider doesn’t register it, the bet doesn’t exist for any operator.

Because of that, the system automatically returned your stake within seconds. That’s why you were able to place the same bet again later, and you might've seen that value on your account.
"

Everything here is false, My first bet attempt was 8.20am, and the odds were 3.80. And the system did not return the stake within seconds, but after 48 hours. Check comment number #1 and #14.

"2) Your second bet at 16:20
This one (odds 3.80) was registered normally and you were paid €772.39, which is already in your balance.
So as per our understanding, the first bet simply failed to register, and the second one was paid as usual."

Another false statement, my second bet was placed at 9.20am and it was a loss, (MOUZ vs Roar gaming).
He's talking about the first bet being the second one. Damn even my head is spinning with so much confusion. I can imagine how confusing these claims must be to verify. But i am giving everyone the tools to verify it.


"The first refund was processed automatically on 2025-11-15 17:33:19, and the second was issued manually on 2025-11-16 23:30:48 this was a human error on our part as it was only meant to be returned once. This resulted in a $219.38 USD risk-free profit from a bet that had not been registered on our side.
In situations where a bet is not properly registered, the industry standard — which we follow — is to refund the stake to avoid any confusion or disputes. I understand you’re quite familiar with betting operations, so I trust this explanation provides some clarity."

Another false statement. There was never a second refund nor the only was processed in any of the dates claimed. Check comments #26 and #38.

So i don't know what's the end goal here from the representative with so many false statements. Remains to see if it's on purpose, or it's a genuine mistake of wrong information on their part. But i'm not gonna lie i am starting to be concerned about their stance so far.

I haven’t put a rating up for 2up. I hope they come back to clear things up. These false statements will definitely be considered.

[holydarkness]

[...]

holydarkness, can you confirm that my math is correct and that indeed not only received a double refund or the bet was paid. Because i feel like my word is worth nothing here. So if it's you confirming it the weight is completly different.

I guess I can if that's needed and community demand it, I actually had done it already and have the number in my phone's calculator, though I don't know whether or not the number match yours as I can't find the mention of your balance on the opening post, nor interested to dig into the posts and images one by one once more.

So, I'll suggest another alternative: last night, on the rare occasion of me strolling past Gambling board [I barely do that], I noticed that 2UP has sig campaign and I happen to know their CM very well. I currently in the middle of inquiring their help to get me acquainted with someone from 2UP.

With some hope, they'll be more communicative and capable of sorting things out through direct communication with me and provide me with data that'll otherwise previously said to be sensitive to be shared here. I do believe I have the vouch of most of the forum frequent overseers of SA that I'll never abuse casino's sensitive data nor leak player's personal info.

[T1HGO]

[...]

holydarkness, can you confirm that my math is correct and that indeed not only received a double refund or the bet was paid. Because i feel like my word is worth nothing here. So if it's you confirming it the weight is completly different.

I guess I can if that's needed and community demand it, I actually had done it already and have the number in my phone's calculator, though I don't know whether or not the number match yours as I can't find the mention of your balance on the opening post, nor interested to dig into the posts and images one by one once more.

So, I'll suggest another alternative: last night, on the rare occasion of me strolling past Gambling board [I barely do that], I noticed that 2UP has sig campaign and I happen to know their CM very well. I currently in the middle of inquiring their help to get me acquainted with someone from 2UP.

With some hope, they'll be more communicative and capable of sorting things out through direct communication with me and provide me with data that'll otherwise previously said to be sensitive to be shared here. I do believe I have the vouch of most of the forum frequent overseers of SA that I'll never abuse casino's sensitive data nor leak player's personal info.

The number is my current balance at the time. It's on my initial post but i will post here
https://gyazo.com/2fa1d878a0295408847bfeac6a9cc84b

So if you did the math correctly(which i did 3 times to make sure), you should get roughly this number, to be more precise 1901. The extra 3€ are easily explained by the 2 small bonuses i took(which you also saw in the screenshot of all my transactions), and also bitcoin price fluctuation, since 2up updates bitcoin price to euro constantly.

I also posted the time i took that screenshot to be absolutely no doubt, i took it after 2up representative claimed the refunds took place at 15 and 16th of november and the screenshot is from 17th. I will also share it here to save you the trouble.
https://gyazo.com/d7bbc8984db0e51fc211b6782df0068e

This proves without any question there was no double refund, and the bet in question was not paid.

[holydarkness]

The number is my current balance at the time. It's on my initial post but i will post here
https://gyazo.com/2fa1d878a0295408847bfeac6a9cc84b

So if you did the math correctly(which i did 3 times to make sure), you should get roughly this number, to be more precise 1901. The extra 3€ are easily explained by the 2 small bonuses i took(which you also saw in the screenshot of all my transactions), and also bitcoin price fluctuation, since 2up updates bitcoin price to euro constantly.

I also posted the time i took that screenshot to be absolutely no doubt, i took it after 2up representative claimed the refunds took place at 15 and 16th of november and the screenshot is from 17th. I will also share it here to save you the trouble.
https://gyazo.com/d7bbc8984db0e51fc211b6782df0068e

This proves without any question there was no double refund, and the bet in question was not paid.

I've got their contact and I've nudged them, waiting for them to nudge me back. With some hope, it won't be like a... specific one casino who outright tell me they don't want me to bridge.

Anyway, suppose things go smoothy, do I have your consent to see your data, anything they're willing to provide to substantiate their claim [or disprove, whatever make this case go forward], though that data may not be allowed to be shown back to you as it contains their own sensitive information?

[T1HGO]

The number is my current balance at the time. It's on my initial post but i will post here
https://gyazo.com/2fa1d878a0295408847bfeac6a9cc84b

So if you did the math correctly(which i did 3 times to make sure), you should get roughly this number, to be more precise 1901. The extra 3€ are easily explained by the 2 small bonuses i took(which you also saw in the screenshot of all my transactions), and also bitcoin price fluctuation, since 2up updates bitcoin price to euro constantly.

I also posted the time i took that screenshot to be absolutely no doubt, i took it after 2up representative claimed the refunds took place at 15 and 16th of november and the screenshot is from 17th. I will also share it here to save you the trouble.
https://gyazo.com/d7bbc8984db0e51fc211b6782df0068e

This proves without any question there was no double refund, and the bet in question was not paid.

I've got their contact and I've nudged them, waiting for them to nudge me back. With some hope, it won't be like a... specific one casino who outright tell me they don't want me to bridge.

Anyway, suppose things go smoothy, do I have your consent to see your data, anything they're willing to provide to substantiate their claim [or disprove, whatever make this case go forward], though that data may not be allowed to be shown back to you as it contains their own sensitive information?

I'm not sure what you mean by consent to see my data, but yes i guess..? I have nothing to hide.
As for their claim to dispute or disprove this, i honestly think that would be impossible. You can't disprove math.

[holydarkness]

I've got their contact and I've nudged them, waiting for them to nudge me back. With some hope, it won't be like a... specific one casino who outright tell me they don't want me to bridge.

Anyway, suppose things go smoothy, do I have your consent to see your data, anything they're willing to provide to substantiate their claim [or disprove, whatever make this case go forward], though that data may not be allowed to be shown back to you as it contains their own sensitive information?

I'm not sure what you mean by consent to see my data, but yes i guess..? I have nothing to hide.
As for their claim to dispute or disprove this, i honestly think that would be impossible. You can't disprove math.

Great, now let's just wait for them to nudge me back and see whether they welcome my invitation to sit together and talk about this or not. I'll try to bring my question here to their attention as well. Will update you once I have anything significant worth updating.

[T1HGO]

I've got their contact and I've nudged them, waiting for them to nudge me back. With some hope, it won't be like a... specific one casino who outright tell me they don't want me to bridge.

Anyway, suppose things go smoothy, do I have your consent to see your data, anything they're willing to provide to substantiate their claim [or disprove, whatever make this case go forward], though that data may not be allowed to be shown back to you as it contains their own sensitive information?

I'm not sure what you mean by consent to see my data, but yes i guess..? I have nothing to hide.
As for their claim to dispute or disprove this, i honestly think that would be impossible. You can't disprove math.

Great, now let's just wait for them to nudge me back and see whether they welcome my invitation to sit together and talk about this or not. I'll try to bring my question here to their attention as well. Will update you once I have anything significant worth updating.

Nice, but you still didn't answer my question if the math matches, i feel like you're dodging. I understand if you don't want to take sides, if you don't want to answer, just say no. It's ok.

I am only asking because your word is worth a million times more than mine here. More like a seal of approval.
I gave everyone interested the tools to do it by themselves, but i understand that no one wants to be bothered with doing something that's not their business and nothing in for them. I have also did the math myself and provided the math, check comment #38.

[Rating Place]

One addition since this is a point of contention. The industry standard is that the sportsbook is the contact, not the provider. There are some exceptions where a bet can be cancelled such as a line error or a bet is placed after the start of the match. Your contract is with the sportsbook, no one else.

[holydarkness]

Great, now let's just wait for them to nudge me back and see whether they welcome my invitation to sit together and talk about this or not. I'll try to bring my question here to their attention as well. Will update you once I have anything significant worth updating.

Nice, but you still didn't answer my question if the math matches, i feel like you're dodging. I understand if you don't want to take sides, if you don't want to answer, just say no. It's ok.

I am only asking because your word is worth a million times more than mine here.
I gave everyone interested the tools to do it by themselves, but i understand that no one wants to be bothered with doing something that's not their business and nothing in for them.

My apology but uhh, what am I dodging?

[T1HGO]

Great, now let's just wait for them to nudge me back and see whether they welcome my invitation to sit together and talk about this or not. I'll try to bring my question here to their attention as well. Will update you once I have anything significant worth updating.

Nice, but you still didn't answer my question if the math matches, i feel like you're dodging. I understand if you don't want to take sides, if you don't want to answer, just say no. It's ok.

I am only asking because your word is worth a million times more than mine here.
I gave everyone interested the tools to do it by themselves, but i understand that no one wants to be bothered with doing something that's not their business and nothing in for them.

My apology but uhh, what am I dodging?

You said you did the math in your phone calculator, and said you didn't know if your math matched mine. I replied showing you my balance at the time, along with the date of the balance screenshot (comment #47). After that you replied twice but didn't say anything about it.

[T1HGO]

One addition since this is a point of contention. The industry standard is that the sportsbook is the contact, not the provider. There are some exceptions where a bet can be cancelled such as a line error or a bet is placed after the start of the match. Your contract is with the sportsbook, no one else.

The sportsbook is clearly at fault here. If my bet is accepted, registered, shows on my settled bets, shows as paid and settled, but i didn't receive the winnings, and they say the bet didn't reach the provider, then only the sportsbook can be at fault. In fact, i have shared chat logs with support chat where i complained and they assured me they saw the bet in the system, and that i would be paid and to not worry about it. Just check my initial post and it's there. It was ackowledged by their own support.

As for the bet itself, it was placed exactly 2 minutes after the draft. For those not familiar with dota there's a draft where each team chooses 10 heroes etc etc. I saw the draft, analyzed it and placed the bet and i remember the match was a 2minutes gametime(the match was 71min long) on twitch(which is live, no delay since it's LAN). And that's it. No excuses.

[Rating Place]

One addition since this is a point of contention. The industry standard is that the sportsbook is the contact, not the provider. There are some exceptions where a bet can be cancelled such as a line error or a bet is placed after the start of the match. Your contract is with the sportsbook, no one else.

The sportsbook is clearly at fault here. If my bet is accepted, registered, shows on my settled bets, shows as paid and settled, but i didn't receive the winnings, and they say the bet didn't reach the provider, the only only the sportsbook can be at fault. In fact, i have shared chat logs with support chat where i complained and they assured me they saw the bet in the system, and that i would be paid and to not worry about it. Just check my initial post and it's there. It was ackowledged by their own support.

As for the bet itself, it was placed exactly 2 minutes after the draft. For those not familiar with dota there's a draft where each team chooses 10 heroes etc etc. I saw the draft, analyzed it and placed the bet and i remember the match was a 2minutes gametime(the match was 71min long) on twitch(which is live, no delay since it's LAN). And that's it. No excuses.

Odds providers auto-grade the bets so they obviously received the bet.

[T1HGO]

One addition since this is a point of contention. The industry standard is that the sportsbook is the contact, not the provider. There are some exceptions where a bet can be cancelled such as a line error or a bet is placed after the start of the match. Your contract is with the sportsbook, no one else.

The sportsbook is clearly at fault here. If my bet is accepted, registered, shows on my settled bets, shows as paid and settled, but i didn't receive the winnings, and they say the bet didn't reach the provider, the only only the sportsbook can be at fault. In fact, i have shared chat logs with support chat where i complained and they assured me they saw the bet in the system, and that i would be paid and to not worry about it. Just check my initial post and it's there. It was ackowledged by their own support.

As for the bet itself, it was placed exactly 2 minutes after the draft. For those not familiar with dota there's a draft where each team chooses 10 heroes etc etc. I saw the draft, analyzed it and placed the bet and i remember the match was a 2minutes gametime(the match was 71min long) on twitch(which is live, no delay since it's LAN). And that's it. No excuses.

Odds providers auto-grade the bets so they obviously received the bet.

Then i have no clue what happened. This didn't happen with any other bet so far, as i continue to use the site. Only that one, all the others were paid and it worked fine as it should. I don't know how often this happens, but as i said before, i shouldn't be the one getting short end of the stick since none of this is my fault.

[memehunter]

Ok I tried to calculate all bets across all the screenshots provided by the OP and it seems at the time of posting his final balance in the OP which was €1904.75 he was missing the said amount which is equitant to €580.17 (same as OP was claiming to be missing). If OP has not morphed the screenshots (that's why I suggested him to do a live video recording) it is evident from the OP that indeed the bet was not refunded immediately and the double refund claim by casino is also wrong.

Code:

Initial Deposit = €802.00 (0.00975537 BTC)
Total Net Profit From Bets = €1682.92 
Final Account Balance should be = €2484.92
Balance Reflecting = €1904.75
Missing Amount = €580.17

[T1HGO]

Ok I tried to calculate all bets across all the screenshots provided by the OP and it seems at the time of posting his final balance in the OP which was €1904.75 he was missing the said amount which is equitant to €580.17 (same as OP was claiming to be missing). If OP has not morphed the screenshots (that's why I suggested him to do a live video recording) it is evident from the OP that indeed the bet was not refunded immediately and the double refund claim by casino is also wrong.

Code:

Initial Deposit = €802.00 (0.00975537 BTC)
Total Net Profit From Bets = €1682.92 
Final Account Balance should be = €2484.92
Balance Reflecting = €1904.75
Missing Amount = €580.17

Thank you.
As for the edited or not images, i would have to be an absolute genius, to be able to predict that 2up.io would claim that double refund BS and as for the bet itself, it has been acknowledged and admited by 2up.io representative himself, that the bet was not paid, due to some error with the provider.So the only point to debunk here was the double refund. As you can see, i provided all these images in my initial post, way before any claims of double refunds.
I would either be a genius or could see the future.

[Rating Place]

Edit to make it easier  @holy, if the bet is in the player's history, transaction log, it was accepted by the provider.