Some are HODLing it wrong

[Renampun]

The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

Many people have the wrong mindset that when they buy shares from a company that stacks Bitcoin it is the same as buying Bitcoin, when in fact it is very different, because when someone buys shares like that, then they only buy shares that only have the price of Bitcoin, it is not direct ownership of Bitcoin assets and does not give them full control over the Bitcoin, because they still depend on the company as a third party that stores, manages, and makes decisions about the Bitcoin they own, so that when the company goes bankrupt or experiences legal problems then all these shares are at high risk that the investment value can be drastically reduced or even become worthless at all.

[serjent05]

Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

How do you hold bitcoin that bitcoin won't fail you because I can't really comprehend what you are saying. Don't focus on the short term, investment should be long term short term is for trading.

I am also confused with that statement, felt like @OP mixes things up.  I think he is trying hard to discredit centralized companies that offer Bitcoin services, but as far as I know, this company, unless turn rouge or gets hacked, can't do anything with its clients' holdings; they have no right to liquidate other people's funds.  So whatever the losses are when Bitcoin downtrend, they will be the same losses as if the investor is holding BTC for himself.

The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

Many people have the wrong mindset that when they buy shares from a company that stacks Bitcoin it is the same as buying Bitcoin, when in fact it is very different, because when someone buys shares like that, then they only buy shares that only have the price of Bitcoin, it is not direct ownership of Bitcoin assets and does not give them full control over the Bitcoin, because they still depend on the company as a third party that stores, manages, and makes decisions about the Bitcoin they own, so that when the company goes bankrupt or experiences legal problems then all these shares are at high risk that the investment value can be drastically reduced or even become worthless at all.

If it is a company share, then it is not Bitcoin so I do not think that it is right to say that the company will sell shareholders' Bitcoin when what share holders hold is the share of the company and not Bitcoin itself.  I really believe that there are mixed up here lol... but I agree with your beginning line.

[Betwrong]

If you're a long-term hodler, simple buying bitcoin with your discretionary using DCA and hodli wouldn't lead to to losses. It's when you sell your bitcoin that you will be in loss if you sold below your entry point. Your portfolio will depreciate in value but that's in dollar value and not the quantity of bitcoin in your portfolio. If you don't sell, the price will surely bounce back. Everyone has their reason why they got into bitcoin investment.

Exactly! I think many people lost big amounts panic-selling their coins during bear markets, but then later everyone of them asked themselves a question "Why did I sell then instead of hodling for several years more?" How many times these mistakes were made along the history of Bitcoin? And yet, inevitably, some people will be repeating them  again and again.

[john_egbert]

^ It that happens, it should only happen when it's a critical situation which needs funds here and there.

And with right risk-management, that situation may never come (if it's not something out of your control, of course).

[Smartprofit]

I've always found it amusing that many crypto enthusiasts rejoice at the interest of institutional players (BlackRock, Vanguard, Fidelity, etc.) in Bitcoin. "Institutional players are interested in Bitcoin!" these crypto enthusiasts exclaim. "The financial magnates will make us rich!" 💰

However, Wall Street predators operate in a completely different mental paradigm. Decentralization, freedom, and the ideals of cypherpunks are of no interest to them. Instead, they are interested in fiat money and financial manipulation. They excel at sophisticated financial schemes.

What happened in the fall of 2025? Wall Street predators noticed that the market capitalization of Michael Saylor's company was several times greater than the value of the Bitcoin on its balance sheet.  Michael Saylor is also a former Wall Street predator (though likely of a lesser caliber than the "financial predators" who decided to target him). So what did they do? They shorted Michael Saylor's company shares. As a result, they eliminated the existing market imbalance and robbed Michael Saylor. And at the same time, they crashed the price of Bitcoin, thereby robbing its holders and miners. 🙎Well done, guys, nothing to say!

And now the future of Bitcoin depends on the resilience and resourcefulness of Michael Saylor. After all, if he fails and sells his Bitcoins, it's scary to imagine how much the price will fall. And what will happen to the miners...

[Chibit01]

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

One thing is about knowing about bitcoin the other thing is about finding the perfect convincing way to invest in it, it’s not something we need to hurry into without properly analyzing the risk, in as much as we need to make profit we should also consider the risk of market dump, if we have enough left over to handle every situation or if it will lead to bankruptcy, we only need to be careful on all the decision we make if we invest right their is never going to be a regret.

[Sonia_123]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

Look what happened to Strategy (the Saylor company). They borrowed billions in order to purchase Bitcoin. At one point, people were paying $2.50 to every $1 of Bitcoin the company actually owned, simply just because they believed in the story. That premium evaporated to basically nothing. BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3. S&P downgraded them to junk. There was one day in which 42.9 million shares were traded - massive volume, on a down day. That's what a handoff looks like. Big money out, small money picking up what they dropped. The company had even to set aside $1.44 billion in cash just to pay interest for the next year or two.

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

That is the problem of borrowing, which the forum has been talking about, you don't borrow to invest in Bitcoin but use your discretionary income to invest.and hodl for a long-term, as a company the zeal of making x10 profit within a very short period of time put them into this, the company would not say that they don't have reservations or discretionary income to be used, now how profitable are they ? I think alot of investors must have learnt their lesson within these past days not to take a loan to invest in Bitcoin because it is volatile and not guaranteed.


When you use your discretionary income, it does not have any effect on you when the market is going down and when it rises you will be more rewarded as long as you are a long-term holder and you invest with what you can afford to lose.

[₿itcoin]

They bought Bitcoin using massive debt &  financial engineering. This leveraged wrapper brought them &  many investors significant profits when Bitcoin skyrocketed. But  with Bitcoins price now down 30 % or more, the debt burden &  declining net asset value relative to liabilities are putting significant pressure on the companys shares. Their stock  were trading at a significant premium to Bitcoins price, which was largely driven by expectations of a potential bullish position in Bitcoin. But those premiums have now evaporated. The general weaknesses of borrowing, preferred equity &  debt maturities have been compounded by the fact that Bitcoin is not in a bad state

So investing in leveraged companies or debt  based instruments can still expose you to significant additional risk. While the underlying asset, Bitcoin, may be immune to the fall, its wrappers or related instruments may be at risk

If you really want to work with Bitcoin, the wisest thing to do is to keep your coins directly in a secure wallet and not use any leverage. Wrappers always come ahead with a new type of risk that could cause problems for you even if you recover your Bitcoin

[Alone055]

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

That's exactly what always makes me wonder why people choose to invest in Bitcoin through ETFs. They say ETFs provide easy diversification, cost efficiency, low fees, etc. However, I don't see how a person will not get all these things if they simply buy and hold Bitcoin themselves through an exchange, etc. If the amounts are significant, there are OTC trades available for that, so there is basically a solution available for every problem, but people still choose ETFs over direct buying and prefer a third-party to hold their assets on their behalf.

Can anyone here explain why investing in Bitcoin through an ETF could be better or could have more advantages than buying and holding Bitcoin yourself in a cold wallet or something? Industrial investors usually buy and hold their own assets, but businessmen or those who have a lot of money choose ETFs to do it for them, and I literally don't understand the mindset behind it.

[Pandorak]

Price increases and decreases are very normal in the Bitcoin cycle, and a 30% decline is not something we haven't seen before. What often disappoints people is not Bitcoin itself, but the way they invest incorrectly. Many panic due to the decline, and it can be said that they are not actually long-term investors, but rather traders hoping for quick profits who call themselves HODLers. When prices drop, their mental state collapses because their expectations/hopes are not met.

Others are those who use all their money to invest in Bitcoin at once ^{(living expenses, investment funds, emergency funds, reserve funds)}. So when the market moves down, they get confused and panic. This is why understanding how to invest properly is very important. Always use discretionary funds, use the DCA method regularly, all of this is to keep your investment safe. And the most important thing to understand is that as long as you don't sell the Bitcoin you own, no matter how much the price drops even nearly 100% you haven't lost anything. So, if you focus on the long term, there's nothing to fear.

[Alphakilo]

The wrapper which in this case is the kind of wallet or hodling method is a core function of Hodling BTC well despite any dip.
By using a hardware wallet to HODL for long term wherein the recovery phrase offline is stored in different locations, is one sure way to HODL BTC, and I don't advice being a broker or the one who is in charge of several hodling wallets of others who have entrusted you with their funds because it might be a bad sight to behold when there is loss or dip.

[dunfida]

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

That's exactly what always makes me wonder why people choose to invest in Bitcoin through ETFs. They say ETFs provide easy diversification, cost efficiency, low fees, etc. However, I don't see how a person will not get all these things if they simply buy and hold Bitcoin themselves through an exchange, etc. If the amounts are significant, there are OTC trades available for that, so there is basically a solution available for every problem, but people still choose ETFs over direct buying and prefer a third-party to hold their assets on their behalf.

Can anyone here explain why investing in Bitcoin through an ETF could be better or could have more advantages than buying and holding Bitcoin yourself in a cold wallet or something? Industrial investors usually buy and hold their own assets, but businessmen or those who have a lot of money choose ETFs to do it for them, and I literally don't understand the mindset behind it.

Bitcoin never breaks the system the system breaks around it because people wrap it with leverage loans and products that collapse under pressure. the asset stays simple but the vehicles built on top of it carry hidden risks and when they fail traders blame Bitcoin even though the problem came from the wrapper not the coin. holding the right asset in the wrong structure hurts people and a lot of investors only realize this after they get burned. ETFs confuse many people because buying Bitcoin directly seems easier cheaper and more secure when you hold it yourself yet some still choose the ETF route. the logic for them is convenience regulation and the feeling of safety that comes from a traditional system even if that safety is not real. they do not want the responsibility of managing keys storage or transfers so they hand everything to a third party.

Big investors also think about accounting rules taxes legal frameworks and company policies and for many institutions they cannot buy and hold Bitcoin directly even if they wanted to. an ETF becomes the only compliant path for them so they use it even though it removes the core value of self custody. businessmen who do not understand the tech side prefer a familiar financial product rather than handling a cold wallet.

[LeyMonte]

We can only hope that for the future we will be able to build better safeguards that don't impact bitcoin in a negative light. One day perhaps bitcoin will  go up to never before seen new ATHs but at some point people and companies are going to have a sort of shift and they will begin to accumulate as much as they can!

Many were worried about the bitcoin market crash, but looking at the past history of bitcoin, it is clear how bitcoin is moving towards its price recovery again. When the bitcoin market crashed before the current time, Bitcoin recovered its price again, created a new ATH, touched the milestone of 100k and reached the highest price of all time. Currently, the bitcoin market is in a bit of a dumping trend, but I firmly believe that bitcoin will recover its price and reach new heights. There will be pumping and dumping in the market and all this has to be accepted as normal. Bitcoin's next ATH will surpass the highest price of all time and reach a higher place.

[batang_bitcoin]

You're right, bitcoin did nothing wrong and I don't think that there's a problem from the usual holders like us, we didn't bought bitcoin from loans and that's why even if the market falls a lot in a day, we're not going to be worried of it because we know eventually it will recover. But for companies like Microstrategy, it's not from their own pockets that were used in buying bitcoin but it's from their investors. That's why it's harder for them to recover if the price goes below their buying price and all of those interests that they have to pay out of it. So they've made their own schemes and responsibilities in exchange of potential larger profits that they can make out of it.

[Silikiem]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

Look what happened to Strategy (the Saylor company). They borrowed billions in order to purchase Bitcoin. At one point, people were paying $2.50 to every $1 of Bitcoin the company actually owned, simply just because they believed in the story. That premium evaporated to basically nothing. BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3. S&P downgraded them to junk. There was one day in which 42.9 million shares were traded - massive volume, on a down day. That's what a handoff looks like. Big money out, small money picking up what they dropped. The company had even to set aside $1.44 billion in cash just to pay interest for the next year or two.

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

That is the problem of borrowing, which the forum has been talking about, you don't borrow to invest in Bitcoin but use your discretionary income to invest.and hodl for a long-term, as a company the zeal of making x10 profit within a very short period of time put them into this, the company would not say that they don't have reservations or discretionary income to be used, now how profitable are they ? I think alot of investors must have learnt their lesson within these past days not to take a loan to invest in Bitcoin because it is volatile and not guaranteed.


When you use your discretionary income, it does not have any effect on you when the market is going down and when it rises you will be more rewarded as long as you are a long-term holder and you invest with what you can afford to lose.

I don’t think borrowing money to invest in bitcoin is totally a wrong idea, one can actually borrow to invest in bitcoin but you must not depend on the investment to be able to pay back the money because nothing is really guaranteed in bitcoin as a result its high volatility. It might not yield the best possible return needed to pay back the loan as at when due and that’s why if we must borrow to invest in bitcoin always make sure that you don’t depend on the investment alone to pay back the loan.

[Achalugo BTC]

If you're a long-term hodler, simple buying bitcoin with your discretionary using DCA and hodli wouldn't lead to to losses. It's when you sell your bitcoin that you will be in loss if you sold below your entry point. Your portfolio will depreciate in value but that's in dollar value and not the quantity of bitcoin in your portfolio. If you don't sell, the price will surely bounce back. Everyone has their reason why they got into bitcoin investment.

True, everyone has their own reason why they invest in crypto either in Bitcoin or any other coins but whatever thing that may be their reasons, that doesn't mean they have to act unwise. They have to do the necessary things in order to succeed in this crypto journey, because any mistakes can lead them to losses.
So doing anything with crypto, one has to act wise by verify information or ask question before they can do anything either in investing or trading in order to help them in doing things right in crypto and also to support them to profit from crypto.

[Joy- maker]

There is no other way of buying Bitcoin, than just buying Bitcoin on a weekly basis and monthly basis and holding your Bitcoin, whichever way that Bitcoin goes the most profitable way is just holding for a long term, I don’t know what you mean by some investors not holding Bitcoin very well, there is no other way that you can hold bitcoin rather than one circle or two circle, whatever that makes you sell your profits before this time or you aren’t buying on regular basis then that will make you a trader, because most traders can still hold for two or three years and eventually sell when they feel they have gotten to a satisfied given time, anyways some individuals do investment how they feel comfortable.

In case you have forgotten there are other ways to buy Bitcoin and hold apart from DCA strategy, which includes buying the dip and lump sum strategy. But the most advisable strategy to use in accumulating bitcoin is DCA strategy, why because DCA allows us to buy bitcoin at any given price without trying to time the market since we are invest in bitcoin for long term and not short term. and if anyone want to be a profitable in Bitcoin he or she have to hold Bitcoin for long term. And secondly some investors are not approaching Bitcoin the right and with right mindset and I believe that's what the OP is referring to. And sincerely speaking it is not advisable to hold Bitcoin for only one to two cycle hold it for multiple cycle, because when Bitcoin price drop it will still rise back. Although everybody is free to do what they want, but in what ever thing you are doing make sure you are holding Bitcoin for long term and not short term.

[KingsDen]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

Look what happened to Strategy (the Saylor company). They borrowed billions in order to purchase Bitcoin. At one point, people were paying $2.50 to every $1 of Bitcoin the company actually owned, simply just because they believed in the story. That premium evaporated to basically nothing. BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3. S&P downgraded them to junk. There was one day in which 42.9 million shares were traded - massive volume, on a down day. That's what a handoff looks like. Big money out, small money picking up what they dropped. The company had even to set aside $1.44 billion in cash just to pay interest for the next year or two.

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

Op, I did not understand you at all and that is why I had to quote the whole text.
What do you mean? Are you saying we should sell our bitcoin and buy through BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity?
Are you saying we should sell and wait to rebuy follow Saylor's strategies? If yes, how will you know when Saylor wants to sell.
They only announce buying and not selling.
Or are you totally discouraging us from hodling?

Your post would have been complete only if you told us the right way to hodl. @PrivacyG, can you explain to me because you merited Op.

[laspol65]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

Look what happened to Strategy (the Saylor company). They borrowed billions in order to purchase Bitcoin. At one point, people were paying $2.50 to every $1 of Bitcoin the company actually owned, simply just because they believed in the story. That premium evaporated to basically nothing. BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3. S&P downgraded them to junk. There was one day in which 42.9 million shares were traded - massive volume, on a down day. That's what a handoff looks like. Big money out, small money picking up what they dropped. The company had even to set aside $1.44 billion in cash just to pay interest for the next year or two.

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

You can buy Bitcoin according to your plan and keep it for a long time, in which case you can buy Bitcoin by following the DCA method. Those who keep Bitcoin for a long time have very little chance of losing, Bitcoin investment and buying Bitcoin according to the DCA method are more affordable. However, the longer the Bitcoin investment, the more likely it is to be profitable, Bitcoin should be kept away for at least two bull markets, then you will be successful.

[freedomgo]

They don't hold with patience, but they hold with greed, the reason why they end up getting liquidated. Realistically speaking, holding bitcoin is not really that hard and difficult. Some just hold even a small amount, but since they do it with patience, they manage to increase their profits gradually. But others prefer to take shortcuts, that's why they start to invest all in. I don't see any wrong there because they are also highly capable to invest, but the way they are hodling is not right. They should hold for long term and with patience, not driven by greed.