Improper use of the trust system based on BTC dev opinions

[alani123]

I'm making this thread to highlight the fact that user ABCbits seems to be tagging users based on their opinions on technical matters related to BTC developments.

As he's entitled to, this user created a thread to document this endeavour of his:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5482297.0

I want to clarify that I appreciate this effort personally although I might not 100% agree with some of the conclusions drawn on what bitcoin's future should better look like. The discussion needs to be had. Indeed it's the right thing to do to point out falsehoods in the forum.

It's just that I don't think this is what the trust system was designed for. For instance, I've never cheated or wronged anyone here. The few times I traded with forum users we had good dealings. And I don't consider it's worthwhile to use the forums WOT system to tag someone based on opinions... Anything anyone says aside of when it shows intention to scam, isn't normally indicative of how trustworthy they can be in trades.

And if you disagree with someone so much such as to not want to trade with them, this isn't something concerning the WOT system this forum supposedly has.

In any case, for my personal case I asked what I said that was so factually wrong or even "dangerous" to deserve me a trust rating. I'm all for having the discussion and potentially even amending anything I said that was wrong. But this discussion shouldn't involve anything with trust ratings.

[_act_]

Is it not neutral feedback that ABCbits is giving to those that are positibg on technical board with wrong information? If it is a neutral tag, there is nothing bad about it to clean the technical board from spams and wrong information.

Use Neutral feedback for anything that doesn't mean someone can or can't be trusted.

There is nothing bad in the tags if it is neutral.

This forum is for everyone that like to know about bitcoin, not for only the technical aspect of bitcoin. You can grow your account without posting on technical boards of this forum.

Anyone found guilty should stop posting there and message ABCbits about it to consider removing the tag or he should post good things on the technical board to convince him.

[alani123]

The thing wrong with it is that this is not the intended use of a trust system.
You can do trade with bitcoin and this forum is bitcointalk. The implemented web of trust is made to document transactions. I've never traded with ABCBits or even attempted to do so.

If it's his opinion that what I say makes no sense he's more than free to post about it publicly, as he has done. But it's not a matter of the web of trust.

[Shishir99]

As _act_ already said, if it is neutral feedback, you cannot do anything against it. Anyone can leave neutral feedback on any profile. I saw worse neutral feedbacks. JollyGood uses it as if it were his personal notebook. He loves to provide feedback on everything. For example, he can put this post in reference and write "This user talks about me in the reputation board"  

As for leaving feedback just because of disagreement, this is totally bullshit. I consider you as one of the quality posters of the forum, and you don't deserve the neutral feedback. Even if you were incorrect (I am not sure if you are), that does not deserve neutral feedback. This is how we actually learn. I would appreciate it if someone could correct me with information instead of leaving feedback on my profile.

[LoyceV]

Use Neutral feedback for anything that doesn't mean someone can or can't be trusted.

There is nothing bad in the tags if it is neutral.

I'd like to bring up this quote:

The system is for handling trade risk, not for flagging people for good/bad posts/personalities/ideas.

But I realize that I often don't follow this myself. I've given many spammers neutral feedback.

In OPs case, I read the Reference link, and I don't think this neutral tag does ABCbits's thread any justice. I'd say those posts are more about sharing an opinion than stating facts. But that's just my opinion

[Satofan44]

The system is for handling trade risk, not for flagging people for good/bad posts/personalities/ideas.

But I realize that I often don't follow this myself. I've given many spammers neutral feedback.

You shouldn't keep bringing this up when this is no longer true. Most DT members apply this subjectively based on many factors, therefore they are not adhering to this alleged rule either. It is a relic of the past. Neutrals are given for just about anything.

In OPs case, I read the Reference link, and I don't think this neutral tag does ABCbits's thread any justice. I'd say those posts are more about sharing an opinion than stating facts. But that's just my opinion

He's posting misinformation about LN and many aspects of Bitcoin all the time. There is a pattern of behavior that you'd not allow for many users, therefore tags are warranted. Actually you'd ought to leave one yourself to be consistent with your feedback practices.   Soft FUD is the same as hard FUD, you just need better glasses.

[alani123]

Thanks loyce for the input.

Satofan44, I'll give it to you that you can have a good discussion if you feel like it. I appreciate that you had removed the feedback you had given me previously after at least we had some level of mutual understanding . Although now... On the same day with ABCBits you also decide to give me feedback about my opinions again, this time even negative. I mean come on dude.  Why should I be dragged into this discussion over trust ratings? Quote my posts, respond with data. Feel free to make my look like an idiot even. If I'm wrong I can admit it. It's not a matter that has to be solved with trust ratings.

[Satofan44]

Satofan44, I'll give it to you that you can have a good discussion if you feel like it. I appreciate that you had removed the feedback you had given me previously after at least we had some level of mutual understanding . Although now... On the same day with ABCBits you also decide to give me feedback about my opinions again, this time even negative. I mean come on dude.  Why should I be dragged into this discussion over trust ratings? Quote my posts, respond with data. Feel free to make my look like an idiot even. If I'm wrong I can admit it. It's not a matter that has to be solved with trust ratings.

You are barking up the wrong tree as far as trust abuse goes. If you really cared about trust abuse, you'd be looking for consistency and calling it out wherever it happens. Furthermore, it is clear that neutral ratings can be given for anything. This you should know by now, thus the rating by ABCBits is acceptable in any case -- even were it based on something inaccurate.

JollyGood uses it as if it were his personal notebook. He loves to provide feedback on everything.

[LoyceV]

If you really cared about trust abuse, you'd be looking for consistency and calling it out wherever it happens.

That's not fair to say: trust abuse is so rampant, it would be a day job to call out all of them. It's ultimately up to whoever received the feedback to call it out.

[alani123]

Fr why should I care about whataboutism. I care about my own profile where I have direct interests. Of course it's not fair when you do it to others also but I don't have all day to be a judge for free.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Is it not neutral feedback that ABCbits is giving to those that are positibg on technical board with wrong information? If it is a neutral tag, there is nothing bad about it to clean the technical board from spams and wrong information.

<...>
There is nothing bad in the tags if it is neutral.

Well, I would say there is.

In the time I've been on the forum, I'd say since I've been on DT, I've received several PMs asking me to delete neutral feedback. Members seem to care, and, despite the theory, campaign managers do too. A neutral tag saying that you are a shitposter can hinder your chances of joining a campaign. In this specific case, as far as I know, there are no longer any, but in the past, in campaigns such as CM, technical knowledge was valued, and a tag of that kind could also look bad in the eyes of a manager looking for people with such knowledge for their campaign.

As _act_ already said, if it is neutral feedback, you cannot do anything against it.

Well, he can, what he is already doing: complaining with this thread.

[dkbit98]

I'm making this thread to highlight the fact that user ABCbits seems to be tagging users based on their opinions on technical matters related to BTC developments.

He is using neutral feedback so it's not really a trust abuse, but I think he is not using trust system correctly.
This are more like personal notes, and for this purpose TryNinja already created interesting user script called BitcoinTalk User Notes:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411599.0

PS
I wish we had this personal notes by default in forum, without using extensions or scripts.
This would fix a lot of grey area cases.