After I stopped getting paid, here is some food for thought...

[vapourminer]

Now, when a person wants to make a move through the legal system, so to speak, they have to file a declaration. Then, they just need proof of the origin. The problem is never at the entrance, it's at the exit. When you leave, you have to prove the origin. Whether you should have paid something beforehand or not is another question, but as long as the person pays, everything is fine.

Ultimately, it is up to each individual to act based on the information and evidence they have.

back (~2011) when i gpu mined with pools i signed my pool payout adds along the lines of "im so-an-so and i mined at this addy at this pool with this equipment around these dates" and i had pics of my mining gear and receipts too. and pool payout logs. all in digital and printed form, stored in safe deposit boxes. basically all for tax purposes and proof of origin of my coins. oh and employment records from then as i was working at the time. to show i had enough income to buy the GPU/FPGAs/ASICs back then.

here in the USA (land of the free) we have to be prepared to provide proof of the source of the funds used to buy something, then keep track of cost basis when disposed of.

[Lucius]

Oops yeah you're right our government is a pioneer in implementing stupid EU guidelines though. Limit on cash transactions will soon be implemented EU wide.

Maybe the reason is that the EU invested huge money to save Greece from sinking like a stone and that means that you will pay the debts, as I read, at least until 2060. In other words, you are not the boss in your own house, but there are few countries that can say that today.

As for paying taxes, while someone here is worried about a few hundred or thousand euros, your compatriots are holding tens of billions of euros in various tax havens and they don't care about the laws.

Following similar actions by the United Kingdom and Germany, the Greek government was in talks with Switzerland in 2011, to try to force Swiss banks to reveal information on the bank accounts of Greek citizens.[89] The Ministry of Finance stated that Greeks with Swiss bank accounts would be required either to pay a tax or to reveal information such as the identity of the bank account holder to the Greek internal revenue services.[89] The Greek and Swiss governments hoped to reach a deal on the matter by the end of 2011.[89]

The solution demanded by Greece had still not been effected as of 2015; when there was an estimated €80 billion of taxes evaded on Swiss bank accounts. But by then the Greek and Swiss governments were seriously negotiating a tax treaty to address this issue.[83][84] On 1 March 2016 Switzerland ratified an agreement creating a new tax transparency law to fight tax evasion more effectively. Starting in 2018, banks in both Greece and Switzerland were to exchange information about the bank accounts of citizens of the other country, to minimize the possibility of hiding untaxed income

[Ultegra134]

Maybe the reason is that the EU invested huge money to save Greece from sinking like a stone and that means that you will pay the debts, as I read, at least until 2060. In other words, you are not the boss in your own house, but there are few countries that can say that today.

As for paying taxes, while someone here is worried about a few hundred or thousand euros, your compatriots are holding tens of billions of euros in various tax havens and they don't care about the laws.

It's quite ironic that politicians and other corrupt people who have been abusing the system for decades, with billions of euros in foreign banks, aren't paying any taxes, while we're here discussing about our signature campaign earnings and their possible taxation. Double standards for people of a two-tier society.

[apogio]

Ultimately, it is up to each individual to act based on the information and evidence they have.

There are supposed to be laws that basically constrain this freedom to act based on the information and evidence you have, but I get the point obviously. Even if you're in Portugal and I'm in Greece, the situation is similar everywhere. There are some substantial details that differ, but the core ides of your post is valid.

here in the USA (land of the free) we have to be prepared to provide proof of the source of the funds used to buy something, then keep track of cost basis when disposed of.

I believe it's everywhere, or in most countries at least. You have to be prepared to tell "I bought X amount of BTC, at an exchange rate of Y, using Z amount of EUR which I have acquired from my job and here's the transaction that proves where the money come from". If the money are sent from your salary bank account, you are in a good situation because luckily most banks offer full historical transaction statements.

As for paying taxes, while someone here is worried about a few hundred or thousand euros, your compatriots are holding tens of billions of euros in various tax havens and they don't care about the laws.

It's quite ironic that politicians and other corrupt people who have been abusing the system for decades, with billions of euros in foreign banks, aren't paying any taxes, while we're here discussing about our signature campaign earnings and their possible taxation. Double standards for people of a two-tier society.

It's not ironic. It's pathetic, brutal and it's a strong punch in our stomachs.
I know and you may not like the answer but seeing other people getting away with money laundering and tax evasion isn't going to cause memetic behaviour from my end (I hope my english make sense here lol).
I mean, as a Greek citizen, my weapon is my vote and my right to protest. I'll use both. But, if someone launders billions of money and gets away with it, I won't do it.

[alani123]

@Lucius no matter how I approach it I always see that the ultra rich keep having it better and better by squizing everyone else more and more. The current system isn't sustainable. The question is when people will realize.

[Ultegra134]

It's not ironic. It's pathetic, brutal and it's a strong punch in our stomachs.
I know and you may not like the answer but seeing other people getting away with money laundering and tax evasion isn't going to cause memetic behaviour from my end (I hope my english make sense here lol).
I mean, as a Greek citizen, my weapon is my vote and my right to protest. I'll use both. But, if someone launders billions of money and gets away with it, I won't do it.

I understand your point, using it as an excuse to also do the same thing is also hypocritical, but at this point, not unexpectable (when talking about Greece at least). The issue with us is that nobody is paying attention anymore, people didn't go to vote, aren't protesting and so on. The system is problematic and as long as there are loopholes to get around it, people will do it, and especially when billions are laundered by politicians etc.

[m2017]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today?

I've had periods (I think most people who participate in sig.campaigns have, too) where I haven't sgnatured, and then my activity has declined. Therefore, I can say that without participating in the sig.campaign, my zeal diminishes. Knowing I'm participating in the campaign forces me to be more disciplined in regularly participating in discussions. This encourages to be more active.

And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

I think the urge to talk out would be lower. But still, the desire to talk out remains and manifests itself, even in the unsignatured period.

After stopping, I was posting less and less in here, I was scrolling the threads everyday (really!), but I was feeling that I hadn't many valuable things to say. I was reading your posts and conversations though.

As you can see, sig.campaigns are an incentive to keep users active on this forum. We could say that.

2. Would you support the forum to the outsiders, who would rationally wonder: "what on earth do all these people do there everyday?".

No, I'll keep quiet and pretend I don't know anything about it, because most people, even those who know about bitcoin, won't be interested in the forum. It's an old-school forum, and for people accustomed to video reviews and AI questions\answers - i.e., information presented in a ready-made format - they won't want to spend hours searching through various sections and tabs. This forum is a kind of "mammoth" (a creature from the past who miraculously managed to stay alive) from the old internet era in the eyes of modern users, albeit with invaluable information, heavily diluted by flood and spam.

I'll also keep quiet about the forum for privacy reasons, as bitcoin is already associated with an easy way to make money (by interacting with users with a $5 wrench). Therefore, I shouldn't advertise my involvement with anything related to bitcoin to others. Including bitcointalk, since this may be perceived by outsiders as a mandatory requirement for this user to have bitcoins (even if this is not the case or the amount of this is completely insignificant) and create a threat.

3. Would you be actually interested in this forum's longevity and would you try to stop the scammers if you weren't getting paid? EDIT: I don't mean getting paid for moderation or tagging scammers, but I mean if you get paid and you need a sustainable payment resource through the forum, you gotta try to keep it safe, don't you?

I would like this forum to exist for as long as possible, preferably while maintaining what makes the forum what it is today - a place for like-minded and BTC-passionate people. Let it be so. I am not saying this because I have a signature.

4. Do you actually know (or use) the website or service that you promote? It's not a trap question, I just want you to think if you'd jump from campaing to campaign simply because of the money, or if there's also a tie with the service that you promote.

To the best of my knowledge, this companies whose signature campaigns I participated in have not been convicted of scam or any other abuse during the period I used this signature (or at other times). Therefore, I know that the service or website is reliable and reputable, and this is sufficient to satisfy my conscience that I am not causing harm by promoting the company whose information is used in my signature. If the company I promoted is convicted of scam (or other dishonest behavior), I will be forced to change \ delete my signature.

I have used some of the websites or services I promoted in the past, and I don't rule out the possibility that I may do so in the future.

Disclaimers:
1. I liked getting paid as well and I'll probably try to join campaigns again, if the legislation in my country gets better, or if the payments from campaigns increase to justify me getting paid.

What if you used the payments you receive for charity? Like you've already done, to some extent, with bitcoin giveaways to worthy forum users, or donating to the forum's development? You asked above about fighting scammers. Well, this money could be used to improve the forum.

And what's the benefit for you, you might ask. It's obvious. It will re-engage you in the forum and encourage you to communicate more, not just browse and read other people's discussions. You could think of it as volunteering (for the good of BTC-community), for example.

2. My post can be summarized in the following question: "If you weren't getting paid, would you still be around?". My answer to this question is "Yes! I will!".

The only question that remains is what percentage of personal time users will be willing to devote to the forum without sig.campaign payments.

[Lucius]

@Lucius no matter how I approach it I always see that the ultra rich keep having it better and better by squizing everyone else more and more. The current system isn't sustainable. The question is when people will realize.

That's why I decided not to blindly follow the rules that were set up to make them even richer and me even poorer. Among other things, Bitcoin exists so that people would have some kind of financial independence from banks and the state, and we see how far we have gone in the wrong direction to pay taxes on taxes and so on.

Far be it from me to tell someone not to pay taxes, but if they don't know about something, I certainly won't tell them because they would surely laugh at me if I came to register at the tax office myself because of what I get from the sig campaign.

[alani123]

@Lucius no matter how I approach it I always see that the ultra rich keep having it better and better by squizing everyone else more and more. The current system isn't sustainable. The question is when people will realize.

That's why I decided not to blindly follow the rules that were set up to make them even richer and me even poorer. Among other things, Bitcoin exists so that people would have some kind of financial independence from banks and the state, and we see how far we have gone in the wrong direction to pay taxes on taxes and so on.

Far be it from me to tell someone not to pay taxes, but if they don't know about something, I certainly won't tell them because they would surely laugh at me if I came to register at the tax office myself because of what I get from the sig campaign.

On that I wanted to say for instance that if we all blindly pay crazy amounts of crypto tax without saying anything of course the government is going to benefit and even strengthen its regulatory power. If the vast majority of us still do them maybe they'll just use the funds to strangle dissent.

But if we organise in a civil war much better results can be achieved. For instance look at ship owners, they were disobeying laws for so long in an organized manner than in the end world governments caved and let them write their own laws.

Bitcoin users as taxpayers also hold some power. If no bitcoin user pays taxes on crypto then the government loses out. But if the demands are prompted in an organised manner and reasonable regulation is forwarded, then at least some entities will pay taxes and it will be a win win.

For me a western government even implying non employment income that is so low should be taxex crypto or not. If a government makes it so complicated to get at max $100 a week to the point where it's citizens are considering against it, then people should realize it's a crazy situation and do something about it. Because really many people need that 100$ more than the government needs its 15 cents on the dollar or whatever the tax rate would be. And if the government isn't serving it's people it needs to change.

[apogio]

As you can see, sig.campaigns are an incentive to keep users active on this forum. We could say that.

Definitely! I can say it from my own experience.

I would like this forum to exist for as long as possible, preferably while maintaining what makes the forum what it is today - a place for like-minded and BTC-passionate people. Let it be so. I am not saying this because I have a signature.

I think that unwillingly, we all like Bitcoin, we're all like-minded, but we all need the incentive to keep using such an old-school platform, which is flooded by scammers and bots.

What if you used the payments you receive for charity? Like you've already done, to some extent, with bitcoin giveaways to worthy forum users, or donating to the forum's development? You asked above about fighting scammers. Well, this money could be used to improve the forum.

Charity needs much paperwork to be legit and it may cause tax implications on the recipients' end. So to improve the forum, yeah, they could work, but I reckon the forum has lots of money to spend in this regard already.

[Free Market Capitalist]

I've just bumped a thread about a guy that I haven't seen on the forum for a while and I've thought of this one.

2. My post can be summarized in the following question: "If you weren't getting paid, would you still be around?". My answer to this question is "Yes! I will!".

Lol. A couple of months after that, he took a short or long break, depending on whether you look at the thread title (“see you soon”) or the text (“a prolonged break”). But he hasn't been around the forum for 7 months.

I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again as many times as it takes: It blows my mind that, on a forum about money, there are so many people who brag about not being interested in money. This is due to the brainwashing that cultural Marxism has achieved around the world, of which people are generally unaware.

[Accardo]

cultural Marxism has achieved around the world, of which people are generally unaware.

What does cultural Marxism got to do with a real dude who's been away for months? I know a part of the brain is responsible for this kind of thought, on average a smart person would look out for a friend who's not been around for a while, wondering how they're doing, whether they're in good shape or not. I didn't read his thread as you linked, but, I'd tell you, when I stopped seeing posts from Franky1, and Mk4 I asked myself where've there gone to? what could have caused their absence? note there participated here without getting paid through signature, (more money, clients, and connections is made in the service section than the signature thing) and they've not stayed active for months like Apogio, what would you call that?

[Free Market Capitalist]

cultural Marxism has achieved around the world, of which people are generally unaware.

What does cultural Marxism got to do with a real dude who's been away for months? I know a part of the brain is responsible for this kind of thought, on average a smart person would look out for a friend who's not been around for a while, wondering how they're doing, whether they're in good shape or not. I didn't read his thread as you linked, but, I'd tell you, when I stopped seeing posts from Franky1, and Mk4 I asked myself where've there gone to? what could have caused their absence? note there participated here without getting paid through signature, (more money, clients, and connections is made in the service section than the signature thing) and they've not stayed active for months like Apogio, what would you call that?

Not only have you not read the link, but it seems like you haven't read anything at all. I'm going to explain it to you like you're a kindergartener to see if you can understand it.

1. A guy creates a thread saying that he has stopped participating in signature campaigns but:

2. My post can be summarized in the following question: "If you weren't getting paid, would you still be around?". My answer to this question is "Yes! I will!".

2. He receives a bunch of merits and people congratulating him in a sort of: "oh, it's so cool that you are not interested in money and you will still be around!"

3. Not long after that, he disappears.

If you stop and think about it for a moment, that has nothing to do with the disappearances of Franky1 and Mk4.

The point here is that he said he was going to be around even though he wasn't participating in signature campaigns, and shortly after, he disappeared.

And if you learn a little bit about what cultural Marxism is, you'll understand why what he said and what he did fall within that mental framework.

[Accardo]

2. He receives a bunch of merits and people congratulating him in a sort of: "oh, it's so cool that you are not interested in money and you will still be around!"

3. Not long after that, he disappears.

If you stop and think about it for a moment, that has nothing to do with the disappearances of Franky1 and Mk4.

The point here is that he said he was going to be around even though he wasn't participating in signature campaigns, and shortly after, he disappeared.

And if you learn a little bit about what cultural Marxism is, you'll understand why what he said and what he did fall within that mental framework.

Why not wait until he's back to know the reason behind his absence, you could as well be awed at it, that's my point, maybe he's now working with an oil company and has no time to spare. When people don't show up don't be conclusive about what led to their action, there exist multiple reasons why people can't maintain or keep to what they said or promised to do in the past.

Since there's nothing for you to gain in bringing up this convo, you'd better be thinking of something else until he's back to clarify your curiosity. Thank you!

Please do teach me about cultural Marxism like I'm one too, this knowledge would be more beneficial to my brain than what you just explained to me like I'm in kindergarten, because it's useless.

[Free Market Capitalist]

When people don't show up don't be conclusive about what led to their action, there exist multiple reasons why people can't maintain or keep to what they said or promised to do in the past.

Of the many things you don't know, it seems you don't know about Ockham's razor either.

Since there's nothing for you to gain in bringing up this convo, you'd better be thinking of something else until he's back to clarify your curiosity. Thank you!

This is not about gaining or losing anything.

Another thing you don't seem to realize is that this is a forum that protects freedom of expression to the fullest extent, and if a member starts a thread to say something, I have the right to criticize it—without this being about gaining or lose anything.

Please do teach me about cultural Marxism like I'm one too,

I guess you can't read either. I told you to figure it out on your own. I'm getting tired of explaining things to you like you're a toddler, and you still don't understand a thing.

[aoluain]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today? And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

I can say i probably would keep posting but probably now with the same zeal, although I cant
even reach the limit of 30 posts per week currently without creating utter nonsense.

So yea I would still want to throw my tuppence worth into some threads.

[MarryWithBTC]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today? And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

If I stop getting paid, my zeal will reduce and I will likely say fewer words. I will be visiting more during weekends to see how the Bitcointalk fantasy group is going and have some discussions there.

2. Would you support the forum to the outsiders, who would rationally wonder: "what on earth do all these people do there everyday?".

I do not quite understand this, but if it means whether I will recommend the forum to outsiders; Yes, only a few that will have technical issues. I believe that if we all stop getting paid, a few guys will still hang around the technical board.

3. Would you be actually interested in this forum's longevity and would you try to stop the scammers if you weren't getting paid? EDIT: I don't mean getting paid for moderation or tagging scammers, but I mean if you get paid and you need a sustainable payment resource through the forum, you gotta try to keep it safe, don't you?

If signature campaign stops, there will be less scammers here. Scammers go where money flows.

4. Do you actually know (or use) the website or service that you promote? It's not a trap question, I just want you to think if you'd jump from campaing to campaign simply because of the money, or if there's also a tie with the service that you promote.

Yes, as soon as I start promoting a project, I will sign up and use the platform/service.

[DPHOR]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today? And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

I can say i probably would keep posting but probably now with the same zeal, although I cant
even reach the limit of 30 posts per week currently without creating utter nonsense.

So yea I would still want to throw my tuppence worth into some threads.

I must say the truth, it's really hard to keep post here because especially when things are not going the way one plans, if someone is not getting paid over here the energy they put at all time may likely reduced because they can either be posting either once in a week or twice in week because is not that possible to remain active when the person holds no position in the forum.
Posting will become very heavy for them, except there is a project they hold here whereby they are monitoring the whole topic and responding to some queries over here.

[Free Market Capitalist]

It's amazing how, regardless of why I bumped the thread, people go ahead and reply directly to an OP who hasn't been active for half a year. And this happens on Meta. But really, this is just Groundhog Day all over again.

Hey theymos and mprep. You really should consider adding rule 37.

37. When replying to a thread, you mustn't read the most recent posts in the thread.

This rule is consistent with standard practice on the forum.