AI guidelines

[mindrust]

What i mean is such users sometimes already receive one or more accusation of spamming AI/chatbot from other member. And what i do is neutral tag/feedback, i never use type 1/2/3 flag on any of them.

Isn't it common knowledge that AI/chatbot bad at math? It's common topic on ChatGPT community[1-2]. Although the AI/chatbot these days do better by also using calculator or other related application[2].

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/103bw12/chat_gpt_getting_basic_maths_wrong/
[2] https://community.openai.com/t/how-come-chat-cannot-do-simple-math/1089234

These are FUD.

AI is godly at math. There are people who still believe the world is flat too. Unless you try and see it for yourself, you'll never know for sure. Use it.

Do you imply the community (that hosted by OpenAI itself) contain some FUD?



And about your suggestion, i obviously have used/tried AI when many online service/website these days provide AI result/answer.

I encountered these type of posts many times on reddit and every time I did, I also encountered a post that proved otherwise.

But again, these google searches don't prove anything and AI is not one version that doesn't get updated.

If you want to know for sure, you need to test it yourself.

Openai has free plans, don't they? You can ask math questions and see the results for yourself instead of depending on other people's fairy tales.

[EarnOnVictor]

Some of the online AI detectors are pretty good at picking up on whether content was AI-generated or not.

This looks like a race to me. AI detectors are getting worse these days, but well, maybe you know some good ones. AIs are now being trained to cover their tracks. This means they act as internal AI detectors themselves to cover what AI could trace and mark as AI-generated contents.

I also wonder at what point will there be more AI content on the web than human content, or are we already there..

For me, we are already there, you'll hardly see contents that are not AI-generated, everybody is now lazy. Though some still make the necessary human adjustments, but that's provided the AI didn't do a perfect job or they still value their self input no matter how little it is. What do you expect when something can do what you would do pretty faster, especially when no one would query you?

[libert19]

...

Someone who doesn't know shit about the bitcoin technicals can go to the development&technical board and roleplay as if he is a guru. He can basically feed an LLM every response he gets in the forum, read the LLM responses, ask clarifications, reproduce the text using his own capabilities, and post in the forum. Suddenly he is a know it all about bitcoin. merits will flow. The best part is, unless this guy is extremely stupid, nobody can prove that he is a fake. And if he is learning as he reads the LLM responses... does that even make a difference? He was a btc illiterate when he started to roleplay, and as he kept playing, he ended up being a guru.

AI won.

Is it only me or does anybody else find AI same as good old Google search (ask questions and learn)? Sure, AI is advanced and convenient than that, but it's still pretty much same thing, isn't it?

[mindrust]

...

Someone who doesn't know shit about the bitcoin technicals can go to the development&technical board and roleplay as if he is a guru. He can basically feed an LLM every response he gets in the forum, read the LLM responses, ask clarifications, reproduce the text using his own capabilities, and post in the forum. Suddenly he is a know it all about bitcoin. merits will flow. The best part is, unless this guy is extremely stupid, nobody can prove that he is a fake. And if he is learning as he reads the LLM responses... does that even make a difference? He was a btc illiterate when he started to roleplay, and as he kept playing, he ended up being a guru.

AI won.

Is it only me or does anybody else find AI same as good old Google search (ask questions and learn)? Sure, AI is advanced and convenient than that, but it's still pretty much same thing, isn't it?

Pretty much the same thing as ai also do google searches when its own internal data which it was trained on isn’t enough.

The important thing is, ai does the thinking part for you too.

You can come up with the same solution as ai if you read every source/book/article yourself, reason on it and produce a meaningful output.

What do you gain? Time.

I compressed roughly 10 years of work and knowledge into 4 months using ai. (According to my own estimates, I am telling 10 years because in practice I wouldn’t have completed the project in a reasonable timeframe at all if I hadn’t used ai)

[ABCbits]

--snip--
If you want to know for sure, you need to test it yourself.

Openai has free plans, don't they? You can ask math questions and see the results for yourself instead of depending on other people's fairy tales.

Fair enough. I just tried it with few example from OpenAI community and it give correct answer for simple math[1-2], but as expected it use calculator app sometimes. I also tried example given by @stwenhao and copied @joker_josue prompt. While the answer is more detailed[3], it's still wrong.

[1] https://chatgpt.com/share/69958c5c-4114-8013-9863-dbf573ec101e
[2] https://chatgpt.com/share/69958c74-2834-8013-aabe-d410f26a9ae7
[3] https://chatgpt.com/share/69959274-ba10-8013-b528-1a4d6da4a7a7

[mrust_mobile]

--snip--
If you want to know for sure, you need to test it yourself.

Openai has free plans, don't they? You can ask math questions and see the results for yourself instead of depending on other people's fairy tales.

Fair enough. I just tried it with few example from OpenAI community and it give correct answer for simple math[1-2], but as expected it use calculator app sometimes. I also tried example given by @stwenhao and copied @joker_josue prompt. While the answer is more detailed[3], it's still wrong.

[1] https://chatgpt.com/share/69958c5c-4114-8013-9863-dbf573ec101e
[2] https://chatgpt.com/share/69958c74-2834-8013-aabe-d410f26a9ae7
[3] https://chatgpt.com/share/69959274-ba10-8013-b528-1a4d6da4a7a7

Have you asked for clarification? I just asked the same question, then posted the true answer to the AI (chatgpt thinking v5.2) and it says:

the original response I got from chatgpt thinking v5.2:

Assuming “rounds” means SHA-1’s compression iterations `t = 0..4` on the **single padded block** for the empty message, and you want the working variables **after each round update**.

**Initial state (before t=0):**

* a=67452301 b=EFCDAB89 c=98BADCFE d=10325476 e=C3D2E1F0

For the empty message block, the schedule starts:

* W0 = 80000000
* W1..W15 = 00000000
  (so W1..W4 are 0)

### First five rounds (hex, 32-bit)

|  t | Wt       | a        | b        | c        | d        | e        |
| -: | -------- | -------- | -------- | -------- | -------- | -------- |
|  0 | 80000000 | 1FB498B3 | 67452301 | 7BF36AE2 | 98BADCFE | 10325476 |
|  1 | 00000000 | 5D43E370 | 1FB498B3 | 59D148C0 | 7BF36AE2 | 98BADCFE |
|  2 | 00000000 | 158D2F62 | 5D43E370 | C7ED262C | 59D148C0 | 7BF36AE2 |
|  3 | 00000000 | CDECFB5D | 158D2F62 | 1750F8DC | C7ED262C | 59D148C0 |
|  4 | 00000000 | 4953565E | CDECFB5D | 85634BD8 | 1750F8DC | C7ED262C |

If you meant “show the state **at the start** of each round” (instead of after the update), tell me and I’ll print that variant.

The explanation it gave on why it looks different than the post there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293382.msg61865839#msg61865839)

Your post and my earlier table are showing **the same computation**, but they’re logging **different moments in the round** (and therefore the indices look “shifted”).

### 1) **When the state is printed**

* **Bitcointalk post:** prints `a, b, c, d, e` **at the start of round `i`**, *before* doing the round update. You can tell because the code does `PRINT_ROUND(i);` and only **after that** computes `a[i+1] = ...`, etc.
* **My response:** I printed the working variables **after each round update** (i.e., after computing `a,b,c,d,e` for the next step).

So:

* Post’s row `i = 0` shows the **initial state**.
* My row `t = 0` shows what the post calls the **next state**, i.e. `a[1], b[1], c[1], d[1], e[1]`.

### 2) **How the rows correspond (the “shift”)**

If you align them:

* **My `t = 0`** equals **post’s `i = 1`** (the state after finishing round 0).
* **My `t = 1`** equals **post’s `i = 2`**
* …
* **My `t = 4`** equals **post’s `i = 5`**

That’s why your post has:

* `i=1: a=1fb498b3 b=67452301 c=7bf36ae2 d=98badcfe e=10325476`

…and my row `t=0` is exactly:

* `a=1FB498B3 b=67452301 c=7BF36AE2 d=98BADCFE e=10325476`

### 3) **What extra columns the post includes**

The post also prints:

* `f` (the round function output),
* `k` (the constant),
* `w` (the message schedule word)

My table didn’t include those—only the state variables.

### 4) A small wording mismatch

I said “first five rounds `t=0..4` and working variables after each round update” — which matches the numbers I printed — but the phrase “print first five rounds” is ambiguous because some people mean “print the state labeled round 0..4” (start-of-round), which is what the post does.

If you want, I can print the **start-of-round** view (`i=0..4` with `f,k,w`) exactly in the post’s format.

I am not going to read all that shit because I am not into this stuff but my point is, I went through all that before on different subjects. AI won every time. If the result is suspicious, you ask for a clarification. Ask why does your response look different than the real solution?

It will tell you the reason.

It is easy to dismiss AI and say it don't work, meanwhile those who know how to make it work...

If you feed the ai with the right prompt, it will produce the right output.

Garbage in, garbage out.

[mindrust]

I was this **making a hand sign using my index finger and thumb** close to set up a bot that scanned forum posts, checked if they were ai-made using my own backend trained on the output of famous ai detectors which people list in the ai spam topic, and give negative/neutral ratings automatically via forum bot based on the ai score of the posts but I didn’t.

Because the AI convinced me not to and it gave me its reason. It is pointless and it would trigger an arms race. Which is exactly what is already happening. Had I created this bot, I would have speeded things up.

[LoyceV]

it would trigger an arms race.

That race started years ago. When I started my plagiarism topic in 2017, they were using simple verbatim plagiarism. But shortly after that, they started using text spinners and homograph attacks. Now it's verbal AI diarrhea or chatbots rewriting entire posts. Not joining the arms race doesn't mean we're winning it.

[mindrust]

it would trigger an arms race.

That race started years ago. When I started my plagiarism topic in 2017, they were using simple verbatim plagiarism. But shortly after that, they started using text spinners and homograph attacks. Now it's verbal AI diarrhea or chatbots rewriting entire posts. Not joining the arms race doesn't mean we're winning it.

It is not even about winning anymore. It is about adapting to the new reality. The war is over already.

[Xylber]

Fighting AI post is futile, they are getting better, and you can even give a personality to the answers ("Answer as if you were a lower class man of Ireland, use local slang").

The problem should not be solved by attacking AI posts directly, but the reason why people use AI in the first place.

[UmerIdrees]

Fighting AI post is futile, they are getting better, and you can even give a personality to the answers ("Answer as if you were a lower class man of Ireland, use local slang").

The problem should not be solved by attacking AI posts directly, but the reason why people use AI in the first place.

Well in every place AI has a different usecase and on this forum, you're not encouraged to use AI to write post and there is a valid reason for it. Even if you're having a blog or website, the google wouldn't rank the pages if they're AI written but in other places like any offices AI can help write emails and thats encourged too. Students use AI to help themselves and that's not wrong too.

In general, we need to accept that AI is for making the human life easy and efficent. It doesn't mean that AI is a threat to human, it helps them to perfrom task quicker giving them (human) more time to focus on more advance things.

[Kazkaz27]

Thank God some echoes of sense are being expressed.

@UmerIdrees, @Xylber, @ mindrust

Well in every place AI has a different usecase and on this forum, you're not encouraged to use AI to write post and there is a valid reason for it. Even if you're having a blog or website, the google wouldn't rank the pages if they're AI written but in other places like any offices AI can help write emails and thats encourged too. Students use AI to help themselves and that's not wrong too.

In general, we need to accept that AI is for making the human life easy and efficent. It doesn't mean that AI is a threat to human, it helps them to perfrom task quicker giving them (human) more time to focus on more advance things.

💯

Fighting AI post is futile, they are getting better, and you can even give a personality to the answers ("Answer as if you were a lower class man of Ireland, use local slang").

The problem should not be solved by attacking AI posts directly, but the reason why people use AI in the first place.

💯

It is not even about winning anymore. It is about adapting to the new reality. The war is over already.

💯

Most of what you are saying, I have tried to explain. Members strongly against AI use here are fighting a losing battle. Abolishing AI from this forum is nonsense and won’t work. Not to mention, if you have strict restrictions against AI, legitimate members who use AI for good reason will end up banned, which just contributes to the decline in ‘human’ activity and engagement. I have expressed how we need to be open-minded in regards to AI, but there is a hierarchy here that really wishes to fight against it, regardless of the fact that 50% of the community is divided on the matter according to my recent POLL. The majority leans towards AI vs. against it, while a few remain unsure. There is a civil war on this forum.

It is funny to me how members that are so strongly against AI have frequently expressed how we are such a ‘free’ forum and have the most ‘freedom of speech,’ yet we are essentially controlled by a monarchy or ‘elite’ class of members on the forum on issues such as this that dictate which tools we can use or cannot use, how we use them and essentially how we choose to communicate. This is a far stretch in regards to enforcement, not to mention against half of the constituents here.

A much bigger issue at hand in my mind is how some DT1 members derail topics, harass and troll. Another issue is that other DT1’s support these bad behaviors through (FrEeDoM oF sPeACH) excuses, complicity and silence. Higher standards should be applied, maintained and enforced for DT1 members, at the very least rules should apply to them and they should be held accountable.

~anonymousminer
~DireWolfM14

It’s really telling how we have established rules against such behaviors, and we all lean towards their enforcement, yet free passes are given to the circle while equally divided debates such as this, that touch on freedom of speech which are so often expressed (used as excuses) by these aggressors, show how hypocritical it gets. This forum is full of megalomaniacs, kisses asses and “freedom fighters” vs. each other.


Again, Theymos, I request your opinion regarding this Thread “Is AI Your Best Friend or Worst Enemy? 🤖”

I created the poll “ Is AI a friend or foe in our lives and community? 🤖” just a handful of hours before you created this thread and I believe my post may have prompted you to make this topic as it was in regards to getting community feedback on the topic of AI and rules for the forum.

[nutildah]

Abolishing AI from this forum is nonsense and won’t work.

Did you read the first post in this thread? AI isn't being "abolished from the forum." As many people (including myself) have tried to explain to you, the problem is use of AI to write mediocre posts en masse. This is a solution to that problem. As was expressed in the first post, you are basically free to use AI in any way you see fit, so long as you don't use it to write every post. I don't think that's too much to ask.

You're fighting a fictional battle.

[Kazkaz27]

Abolishing AI from this forum is nonsense and won’t work.

Did you read the first post in this thread? AI isn't being "abolished from the forum." As many people (including myself) have tried to explain to you, the problem is use of AI to write mediocre posts en masse. This is a solution to that problem. As was expressed in the first post, you are basically free to use AI in any way you see fit, so long as you don't use it to write every post. I don't think that's too much to ask.

You're fighting a fictional battle.

Then tell me simply, has my use of AI been wrong?

[nutildah]

Then tell me simply, has my use of AI been wrong?

For the most part, yes.

The most obvious example is your physical collectible maker thread. You used Grok to punch up a long list of coinmakers & the like, it hallucinated a lot of facts, and then everyone had to correct you about what was wrong. What you should have done was double-check everything Grok was saying was correct before just plowing ahead with it.

Also, using Grok to write your "plea to the community" threads (of which you now have many) renders them overly robotic and verbose... You are removing the personal element from your argument and replacing it with AI code when you do this.

[Kazkaz27]

For the most part, yes.

The most obvious example is your physical collectible maker thread. You used Grok to punch up a long list of coinmakers & the like, it hallucinated a lot of facts, and then everyone had to correct you about what was wrong. What you should have done was double-check everything Grok was saying was correct before just plowing ahead with it.

Also, using Grok to write your "plea to the community" threads (of which you now have many) renders them overly robotic and verbose... You are removing the personal element from your argument and replacing it with AI code when you do this.

READ the disclaimer! (Rules & Disclosure of Engagement) No one has to tell me about incorrect “facts” they are acknowledged and participation is voluntary. There is a statement that expresses only so many of the makers indexed are up to date which highlights the fact that many are not. It’s drafted to be edited in time when I have more time, not fighting stupid battles such as this. I challenge you to create an encyclopedia featuring 180+ makers of Physical Bitcoin’s. It takes time and AI is only a helping hand which compresses years of work into months. Currently the thread is more of an outline for the encyclopedia. The disclaimer and rules of engagement highlight this. Once completed it will be published as a finished version with very minor errors. Again, you spread false narratives regarding my AI usage by using that thread as an example which has received around 100 merits from those who understand.

I rest my case. You have no place telling me my usage of AI is wrong.

[nutildah]

You asked a question, I answered it. If you want to take away nothing from my answer, that's your choice. You can continue to butt your head up against the forum for all I care. Have fun.

[Kazkaz27]

You asked a question, I answered it. If you want to take away nothing from my answer, that's your choice. You can continue to butt your head up against the forum for all I care. Have fun.

Honestly, your responses comes off as a megalomaniac. It is unwarranted and arrogant to ignore the facts which are clearly presented in the thread’s disclaimer (Rules & Disclosure of Engagement). You make a baseless argument and assertion that I’m fighting some fictional battle. I am fighting your wish to control how AI is utilized on this forum because clearly you do not care to treat any of it fairly. You blatantly lie when you say “you are basically free to use AI in any way you see fit, so long as you don’t use it to write every post.” That is not your belief or agenda. If it were, you really would have no issue regarding the Physical Bitcoin Encyclopedia thread I’ve created, yet you use it for your prime example.

If you are concerned about it being misinformation it’s clearly not because flaws are clearly acknowledged. If you are concerned that it is spam it’s clearly not because it’s clearly a work in progress. It differentiates because it is not simply a AI copy and pasted text. It’s an outline to input information in which a major human component is required!

Your viewpoint is a biased application of rules which will lead to community division, unfair banishments or loss of active members. Your method truly hinders productive uses, like drafting outlines or learning aids, and will trigger an “arms race” where spammers evolve faster. Ultimately, this type of thinking will lead the forum outdated in an AI-driven world and reduce overall activity in an already declining forum.

If we must enforce some rule surrounding AI, I advocate for a more balanced approach, such as guidelines like disclaimers. My thread would become standard, reducing errors in educational or referenced content through awareness and disclaimers. Acknowledging AI components while maintaining the integrity of the human component. This is much easier than depending on AI detection analyzers that conflate positive or negative results and which will just be consistently outdated as AI algorithms evolve. It’s not worthwhile to solely depend on AI to measure the percentage of AI used in a text when it’s persistently inconsistent. Let’s just acknowledge it and allow mods to tag it as AI enhanced. Reserving banishment for true spammers, those who actually use AI to spam. This could be done, but measuring it would involve manually processing/reviewing the past 50 posts a user has made to get a fair assessment. Maybe making more moderator positions available to the community would be helpful to address these things. Perhaps a voting system as well, given to moderators, that puts a vote to whether a candidate should be banned or not during review would potentially eliminate biases.

If this became a thing, I’d volunteer, and I would also nominate many here for the position, even given their opposition towards my own use of AI, because I think many in opposition against AI have nothing against AI. They just want to prevent spammers and shitposters, which is something I too am against.

Before I ever used AI, I was never accused of being a “shitposter”; only after I utilized it have a couple of members had that opinion. Although I have a strong feeling that’s just an AI bias they have, and it probably spawns from a false perception that is what all AI is used for here, which they may have received through some negative personal experience, not facts. Opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

[mrust_mobile]

The recent news are mind blowing... It seems nowadays you don't even have to write "intelligent" prompts to get results from AI.

They figured another app for that purpose, openclaw, which does what you should be doing, normally. Give the right prompt to the AI agent, review its output, reiterate till you finish the task...

https://old.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1r8ectu/i_plugged_a_30_radio_into_my_mac_mini_and_told_my/

Obviously it won't be enough to finish an OS level app but it will be enough to create more basic apps which you would spend maybe 2-3 hours using an AI agent, openclaw will do it much quicker...

You don't need to think anymore, you don't even need to think about your prompts to get the right results.  You can just say "I want dis", and you will get it.

[OsaiEmma]

You asked a question, I answered it. If you want to take away nothing from my answer, that's your choice. You can continue to butt your head up against the forum for all I care. Have fun.

Honestly, your responses comes off as a megalomaniac. It is unwarranted and arrogant to ignore the facts which are clearly presented in the thread’s disclaimer (Rules & Disclosure of Engagement). You make a baseless argument and assertion that I’m fighting some fictional battle. I am fighting your wish to control how AI is utilized on this forum because clearly you do not care to treat any of it fairly.

Bro, I'm not gonna lie, you are wrong here, you asked a question where you clearly are not ready to handle the answer, he told you his opinion, and you go on to say all these, nah....you are wrong here, you should just accept his answer as his own opinion which you have asked for and move on, let's say you still need to clarify some things so as to prove him wrong, but you shouldn't dismiss his answer, you asked for it and you got it, just prove him wrong and not going on to say all you said here.

https://old.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1r8ectu/i_plugged_a_30_radio_into_my_mac_mini_and_told_my/

Obviously it won't be enough to finish an OS level app but it will be enough to create more basic apps which you would spend maybe 2-3 hours using an AI agent, openclaw will do it much quicker...

To me using AI in designing websites or even app(I don't think it can for now) is very wrong cause those websites lacks proper management, since you didn't write those codes by yourself, debugging, upgrading, and proper maintenance will be very hectic, you won't be as fluid as you should while designing the app, I know you can prompt it to add whatsoever features and style you want, but most times it won't even give you exactly what you want