Issue concerning trust or positive feedback.

[SuperBitMan]

I created a thread in Beginners & Help board and in one of my argument or reply to someone I said these.

Before trusting a member you need to really know him and run business with him for long time.

And a member replied me with what LoyceV said which is.

• If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

Now in the issue of trust, how is it possible you can trust someone you have not done deals with. For example you are trusting or giving someone positive feedback on being trustworthy with financial deals, meanwhile you have not done any financial deals with that person, you just decide to trust him because you believe he or she can be trustworthy.
For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger.

[nutildah]

For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger.

I can see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day its a personal choice how you decide to leave trust. I don't leave a whole lot of positive feedbacks but when I do, there was usual some kind of implied trust involved, and the member did what they said they were going to do.

If you don't trust a member's feedback for this very reason, you of course are always free to add them as an exclusion to your personal trust list. I do this quite often.

I kind of wonder who you're talking about.

[yahoo62278]

I created a thread in Beginners & Help board and in one of my argument or reply to someone I said these.

Before trusting a member you need to really know him and run business with him for long time.

And a member replied me with what LoyceV said which is.

• If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

Now in the issue of trust, how is it possible you can trust someone you have not done deals with. For example you are trusting or giving someone positive feedback on being trustworthy with financial deals, meanwhile you have not done any financial deals with that person, you just decide to trust him because you believe he or she can be trustworthy.
For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger.

The way they conduct themselves here on the forum can say a lot about a persons morals and integrity. You're not going to decide to trust someone over reading 1 or 2 posts, but when you start noticing how a user handles themselves here over a decent period of time, you might consider thinking they deserve to be on your list.

[Nwada001]

• If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

I see that statement as being in line with what the administrator stated here.

You should give these ratings for anything which you think would impact someone's willingness to trade with the person,

To me trust should not be followed blindly; if you see someone being given positive feedback, you just don't have to trade with them because someone trusts them. Without references, always try to check the references link if it's something that suits you, and if it's positive without a backup references link, you can always choose to ignore it.

For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger

If you consider any user you trust their judgment to be given misleading feedback, that's what the judgment distrust is there for; you just have to distrust the person's judgment and save yourself the chance of getting misled.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

I have sent negative feedback to people I never dealt with but believed were scammers or could not be trusted based on the red flags. Now the same applies to positive feedback. There are members who outstandingly display characters of being trustworthy, and you can send them positive feedback. I don't see anything wrong with that so long as people are not abusing or farming positive trust.

[Mia Chloe]

For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger.

Well you do have a point based on the fact that the trust system was mainly created for trade related issues. Anyways that being said trusting someone in an anonymous space is mostly based off perception and choice. There are members with positive tags that I may never want to trade with on the other hand there are some with none or barely any ill probably trade with.

The trust system is part of what you use to evaluate you much how think you can trust that person. Just because someone was responsible with someone else on a trade doesn't automatically mean he'll do same for you. Besides most people are ethical based on the amount involved.

[Stalker22]

I really dont agree with you.  Trust should not be based solely on financial transactions.  Trust can be formed over the years by how well someone has behaved and acted consistently along with what they do to represent themselves in the community.  Take the member you mentioned as an example: I absolutely believe he is trustworthy.  Even though I never had a transaction with him, and possibly never will, I know I can trust him based on his past behavior.

[Joy- maker]

For example you are trusting or giving someone positive feedback on being trustworthy with financial deals, meanwhile you have not done any financial deals with that person, you just decide to trust him because you believe he or she can be trustworthy.
For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger.

You don't necessarily need to have a financial deal with a user before giving positive feedback. And what loyceV said in the comment is absolutely correct. If you feel a user is worthy of positive feedback then give the user a positive feedback, just same way you feel a user deserve a negative feedback for scamming or for loan defaulting even without you being the victim.

[Charles-Tim]

For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger.

The way I use positive trust is mainly for financial dealing. Example are the campaign managers that I gave positive trust. Also another example is someone that borrowed money from me and pay back on time. The last one are people that used me as escrow and the deal was successful. Another one is if I fall under the buyer or the seller and the deal went positively.

I gave negative trust to anyone I feel like given the negative trust. Example people that I know are scam only here to scam and post posting about it. Another example is someone that came to this forum to post about a scam site. My negative trust is not only about financial dealing.

[DireWolfM14]

I instinctively trust people who are brutally honest, direct, and to the point.  People who are constantly polite are trying to hide something.  It may seem odd to have that kind of reaction to digital representations of people on an internet forum, but I've been using this medium of communication for 26 years.  It's the polite ones you have to worry about.

When it comes to internet forums, this is a rather unique one.  The most relevant means of seeing if you trust someone on the this forum (i.e. adding them to your trust list,) is to scrutinize the trust they've left for others.  Are they accurate, do they provide valid context, are their reference links with more details to bolster their claim?  This criteria tends to be more valuable for negative reviews than positive ones.  As for leaving reviews on someone's trust wall, be as accurate as you can be and provide references with meaningful details.

[TypoTonic]

Oh hey, it was me who made that reply.

Now in the issue of trust, how is it possible you can trust someone you have not done deals with. For example you are trusting or giving someone positive feedback on being trustworthy with financial deals, meanwhile you have not done any financial deals with that person, you just decide to trust him because you believe he or she can be trustworthy.

If someone has been here for a long time and has never been involved in any shady activity, then I would be inclined to trust that user, or at least open to making deals with them.
To give you an example, here's the trust feedback given by Free Market Capitalist to vapourminer:

Free Market Capitalist

2024-11-28

This early adopter, WO regular and merit source who spends long hours on the forum reading posts and handing out merits is long overdue for a green tag. His 13 and a half years in the forum make me think he is unlikely to scam anyone.

[Versatile_choice]

You see sometimes, you don’t really need to have a financial or a one on one dealing with someone first before trusting them. For example, would you say you can’t trust someone like Hhampuz simply because you haven’t had any personal dealings with him? The fact that majority or someone you trust or may have had some dealings with someone trusts another person, and you’ve seen their actions and dealings with others and feel you can trust them, then you definitely can without necessarily having to deal with them personally.

[Alpha Marine]

So, in other words, when we flip the script around, a user scams another user, since he did a financial deal with only one person, and he scammed the person, only the scammed user should give negative trust? Right? You see the flaw in this?
Since you can't trust a person you haven't done any financial deals with, you certainly can't distrust a person you haven't had financial deals with.

There are a couple of users on this forum that I can trust, even though I've not had any financial dealings with them. I make this decision based on a couple of factors, including how he has performed in the other financial deals he has had with other members or companies on the forum.

The system is not perfect, but it doesn't have to be. No system pertaining to how to deal with humans is ever perfect; we just have to stick to the work that works the most.

[NotATether]

Now in the issue of trust, how is it possible you can trust someone you have not done deals with. For example you are trusting or giving someone positive feedback on being trustworthy with financial deals, meanwhile you have not done any financial deals with that person, you just decide to trust him because you believe he or she can be trustworthy.
For me trusting or giving positive feedback to someone you have not had financial deals with is wrong and when you do that especially as a DT member, you are simply leading those that trust your judgement in danger.

Not exactly.

If you know the person personally for example, then a positive trust is warranted.

Also, many people don't register on the forum to buy or sell stuff, so the issue of gauging how trustworthy a person is becomes more complicated.

Maybe you have worked with the person, and such collaboration with positive and fruitful. That would be another reason you might add trust.

[LoyceV]

how is it possible you can trust someone you have not done deals with.

Allow me to throw this question back at you: how can you do deals with someone you don't trust? That sounds like a risky thing to do.

[KingsDen]

how is it possible you can trust someone you have not done deals with.

Allow me to throw this question back at you: how can you do deals with someone you don't trust? That sounds like a risky thing to do.

Does this now mean that everyone is pre-trusted before any deals. If yes, the trust might come from the previous positive feedbacks by other users

Let's look at the twist;
Is it correct to hand out negative trust because my instinct says the person is a scammer or will turn a scammer in the nearest future.

[LoyceV]

Does this now mean that everyone is pre-trusted before any deals.

I can only speak for myself, and I barely trade here, but I wouldn't do it with someone I don't trust.

Is it correct to hand out negative trust because my instinct says the person is a scammer or will turn a scammer in the nearest future.

I'd argue your instincts don't really work well online, because with "instinct" I'm thinking about things learned from thousands of years of offline evolution. That's why theymos' description for Negative feedback start with "You think that trading with this person is high-risk".

[SuperBitMan]

how is it possible you can trust someone you have not done deals with.

Allow me to throw this question back at you: how can you do deals with someone you don't trust? That sounds like a risky thing to do.

LoyceV I’m shock with your reply, why then do we have a trust system. By seeing a DT member trusting someone in this forum, it should tell members that the person is trustworthy, if this is not the case then why is the trust or positive feedback system created.

We all know that Bitcointalk forum is heavily used for crypto trading, escrow services, signature campaigns, Loans and marketplace deals. And so giving trust to someone you have not done financial deals with is highly risky to the forum and the members.
One of the reasons for a trust or positive feedback system was to Help others choose trusted partners in the forum.
And the DT members are like law enforcement officers in this forum that people trust, before trusting someone you must have had a financial deals with them or know them for a long period of time.

You can’t believe someone is a scammer and give them negative feedback without evidence, and same thing should go with trust or positive feedback, believing someone is trustworthy without evidence of successful deals is dangerous to the community.

[KingsDen]

You can’t believe someone is a scammer and give them negative feedback without evidence, and same thing should go with trust or positive feedback, believing someone is trustworthy without evidence of successful deals is dangerous to the community.

This is no dangerous mate, if feedback giver is not biased or influenced.
Let me use myself for instance. I joined the forum 2021 and read about trust feedbacks in 2022. I then sent positive feedback to these users without trading with them.
Hhampuz
Lovesmayfamilis
The Sceptical Chemist
CryptopreneurBrainboss
LoyceV
1maiu
And
Ratimov
I didn't have any financial dealings with these persons. Just my 1 year experience in the forum, I knew they were not going to scam anyone.
4 years down the lane, I am still correct, non of them scammed . The only exception is Ratimov, who didn't also scam but self destroyed his reputation.

Meanwhile, I am not going to trust any newbie who doesn't have a track record in the forum. These things happen naturally and when we try to force them, we make mistakes.

[lovesmayfamilis]

OP, let's put it another way. How does someone who doesn't read DT tags, or doesn't take them into account, trust some users? Yes, of course, we can say that this is his business, but without reading it, he is at the same time deceived by someone he believed, and we sometimes witness his naivety. Moreover, there have been cases where the one who gave a positive tag, having made a deal once, is subsequently deceived by the same person. And yes, you probably realized that we are talking about our person distributing loans on the forum.

Trust is a purely personal right. As you can see, it doesn't matter if there is a tag from DT or not; everyone has to draw their own conclusions one way or another. You can do your own analysis of people whose opinions you can trust, but you should always understand that the Internet will always remain a dungeon for you, for just about every person on the other side of the screen. There is a good way to simply not give or take loans on the forum.