BetPanda Provably Fair Original Games are not Provably Fair

[doggywin]

What happened::
Betpanda claims their original games (dice, turbo crash, etc.) are provably fair. Their provably fair is cleverly broken in a way that makes verification difficult when verifying normal bets, and impossible when verifying autobet.

In every other casino that claims provably fair - literally every single one - the system works like this: server seed stays the same, client seed stays the same, and the nonce increments with each bet. You can verify millions of rolls independently.

In Betpanda the nonce stays the same.   The server seed changes on every bet.   When you stop autobet, the server seed hash you saved before the session is useless after the first roll. You can only verify bet #1. You just have to trust them with the other rolls.  

If rolls cannot be independently verified, the system is not provably fair. (It is not my opinion, it is the definition. Don't be like they you don't have evidence they are manipulating rolls so I wearing Betpanda signature will aggressively vouch for the people behind this anonymous casino,...). They have a signature campaign here, and I find there is a lot of resistance to this.

In autobet, the server knows your client seed (fixed), your bet direction, and your bet amount. The server generates the server seed itself. With all that information, the server can selectively skip a winning seed and generate a new one before serving it. A 0.1 second delay from this is unnoticeable.

They don't manipulate every roll. But the system is designed so that under certain conditions - say a high bet relative to net deposits, or a big multiplier hit - the server can simply regenerate the seed. The player has no way to prove it happened.

This is similar to how 999dice operated for years before getting caught: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=948965.0
Extract from 999dice thread "So I started doing testing. I ran the API, using doge, and made over 1 million bets at a 95% win chance, and my final numbers were a 95.0172% win ratio (or something close). Which sure seems like the site is legit... except that although I had a 95% win ratio, I was still down more then I should have been.
How is that possible? Because the site only needs to make you lose a few extra times on larger bets to really punch your wallet, and that would never truly affect your win percentage when you're making a million rolls. It's especially bad with martingale strategy. 49.95% odds, 1 million rolls, you can have a 49.96% win result, yet be down hundreds of bitcoin, if you won a lot of 1st rolls, and the rolls that were faked were the ones where you're at the end of the run and betting 35 bitcoin. Fake just 10 rolls out of 10000 and you bring a 49.95% win ratio down to 49.85%, something that is perfectly within the bounds of random chance. Yet 10 faked rolls could cost you 350 bitcoin if they are timed just right."

I suspect Betpanda to be masking it in a different way. Small bets have a higher than normal chance of winning, and large bets have a smaller than normal chance of winning. My sample size is not large enough to draw any conclusions. But over my years of winning and losing, I notice statistically rare anomalies only in Betpanda. I never won a single large bet in original games. But I cannot prove it.

They also show Player RTP stats on the main page. This works as cover - keep the vast majority of rolls random, suppress big multipliers on big bets, add big multipliers on small bets, keep the displayed RTP near 99%. Earlier the RTP charts were too close to 99%, but last few weeks they have increased the variance to make it more realistic. If anyone questions the broken provably fair system, players look at the vouches given by randos getting paid weekly for their signature, or for running campaigns for them, and see their RTP number and think well it looks fine such a big anonymous casino cannot cheat. Actually they can. Even if they get caught, they can say oops mistake. It is the perfect crime.

What I can prove and what I can't:
Part one: Betpanda's autobet is not provably fair. This is a fact. Anyone can verify it in their own account right now. Set a client seed, make 2 bets on autobet, check if you had the server hash needed to verify the second bet. You didn't.

Part two: Betpanda is using this to manipulate rolls. For this, the undisputable evidence is in their server. I have observed anomalies (to be honest, this is barely enough evidence, even if I had documented them) and Betpanda meets every condition needed for manipulation, run by anonymous operators. I cannot hand you a smoking gun on this part.

But part one alone is enough. If it can't be verified, it's not provably fair. Claiming otherwise is fraud.

The fix is increment the nonce like every other dice site on the planet. They won't do it. Their original games were clearly designed for nonce increments, and they modified the system. Players have complained about this a year ago.

Betpanda should provide an explanation for why their autobet system doesn't increment nonces, and give an ETA for implementing a proper provably fair system where all rolls can be independently verified.

If neither happens, I will be leaving detailed negative trust feedback and encourage others who have tested this to do the same.

This is an anonymous casino.

Don't trust. Verify.

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3675233

Reference Link:

https://betpanda.io/en/ (To test provably fair, use autobet on dice or other games, and observe that you cannot verify all bets other than the first bet. For example, if you make 100 bets on autobet, you cannot verify 99 bets since they change the server seed without providing you the hash instead of incrementing the nonce)

https://imgbox.com/g/H6w0cpUcao (Example results of autobet and manual bet where client seed is kept the same while server seed changes)

Amount Scammed: Unknown, probably in the millions of dollars

Payment Method: Crypto

Proof of Payment: N/A

PM/Chat Logs: N/A

Additional Notes: N/A

[T1HGO]

OP, i'm not gonna pretend to understand any of this, as i never played any games/slots ever, only sportsbook. But if you've seen any of my posts in this forum, you already know i am an avid betpanda hater. So any of this doesn't surprise me at all. Good to know they also scam at games/slots and not only sportsbook.

I've seen some of your posts in betpanda's thread, and this is a battle you cannot win. I've seen some users saying you're trying to jeopardize the great reputation betpanda has. I've said this in another thread, and i will say it here. Bitcointalk is one of the very few places betpanda has a good reputation. All it takes is a good signature campaign. Quick question: is betpanda's signature campaing the largest in this forum? It probably is. Other than that, there's BTCGOSU that gives them a good rating, and that's exactly how i fell into this scam. Everywhere else betpanda has poor reputation. It's easy to understand why.
 
I've created a flag against them, but obviously without any success. If you go ahead and create one yourself, point the way, i will support it. I know it's useless but at least it's a tiny step in exposing this garbage.

[doggywin]

OP, i'm not gonna pretend to understand any of this, as i never played any games/slots ever, only sportsbook. But if you've seen any of my posts in this forum, you already know i am an avid betpanda hater. So any of this doesn't surprise me at all. Good to know they also scam at games/slots and not only sportsbook.

I've seen some of your posts in betpanda's thread, and this is a battle you cannot win. I've seen some users saying you're trying to jeopardize the great reputation betpanda has. I've said this in another thread, and i will say it here. Bitcointalk is one of the very few places betpanda has a good reputation. All it takes is a good signature campaign. Quick question: is betpanda's signature campaing the largest in this forum? It probably is. Other than that, there's BTCGOSU that gives them a good rating, and that's exactly how i fell into this scam. Everywhere else betpanda has poor reputation. It's easy to understand why.
 
I've created a flag against them, but obviously without any success. If you go ahead and create one yourself, point the way, i will support it. I know it's useless but at least it's a tiny step in exposing this garbage.

Their slots are legit as far as I can see. The original games like dice are affected.

Some online casinos including Betpanda are using a sportsbook operator that flags any account that gets too lucky without any evidence.

[T1HGO]

Apologies for the initial imprecision. Reading things outside of sportsbook range like you wrote, is the same as reading mandarin for me.

As for the sportsbook part you wrote, you are somewhat correct. The sportsbook provider(betby) does indeed flag winning players. But that is fair and normal with any sportsbook provider. It's okay to flag winners since it's not profitable for casinos in the long run to keep winners for an extended period of time. The problem is while the legit casinos using betby, limit the player, betpanda bans and confiscates winnings. Flagging and limiting is okay. Robbing is not okay.

[Rating Place]

I'm not sure if their original games are crooked or not. BetPanda does so many things wrong that it's tough to give them the beneift of the doubt on anything. They say they are anonymous and VPN friendly. This leads people to believe they can play from a banned country through the use of a VPN. If you do play from a banned country and they KYC, your money will be confiscated.

I don't like to go into too many ANN threads but I wish that I could ask them about this predatory practice.

[T1HGO]

I'm not sure if their original games are crooked or not. BetPanda does so many things wrong that it's tough to give them the beneift of the doubt on anything. They say they are anonymous and VPN friendly. This leads people to believe they can play from a banned country through the use of a VPN. If you do play from a banned country and they KYC, your money will be confiscated.

I don't like to go into too many ANN threads but I wish that I could ask them about this predatory practice.

Dude, if they ask you for KYC, you are already cooked. No matter you're from. If you can find me 1, just one case where a player was asked to KYC, and didn't end up banned anyway, i will refer to you as Sherlock Holmes moving forward. The absolute best case scenario i've seen if they ask you KYC, is they return the deposit.

[Rating Place]

I'm not sure if their original games are crooked or not. BetPanda does so many things wrong that it's tough to give them the beneift of the doubt on anything. They say they are anonymous and VPN friendly. This leads people to believe they can play from a banned country through the use of a VPN. If you do play from a banned country and they KYC, your money will be confiscated.

I don't like to go into too many ANN threads but I wish that I could ask them about this predatory practice.

Dude, if they ask you for KYC, you are already cooked. No matter you're from. If you can find me 1, just one case where a player was asked to KYC, and didn't end up banned anyway, i will refer to you as Sherlock Holmes moving forward. The absolute best case scenario i've seen if they ask you KYC, is they return the deposit.

What I don't like it's a trap saying anonymous and VPN friendly. Even if taken to arbitration, you have no case from a banned country. Everything they do is shady.

[Zwei]

In Betpanda the nonce stays the same.   The server seed changes on every bet.   When you stop autobet, the server seed hash you saved before the session is useless after the first roll. You can only verify bet #1. You just have to trust them with the other rolls.  

what a fucking shitshow.

i just made a throwaway account to check, and it's true.
they keep the client seed and the nonce the same, but they change the server seed after each bet.

how did no one who played on betpanda not check this before untill now? this is crazy.



the entire point of a having provably fair system is for the server seed to not change after a player sets up their client seed, and should only be changed if the player requests a seed rotation.
if the house knows the client seed, and the nonce doesn't increments with each bet, they can rig every bet if they want to.

[doggywin]

In Betpanda the nonce stays the same.   The server seed changes on every bet.   When you stop autobet, the server seed hash you saved before the session is useless after the first roll. You can only verify bet #1. You just have to trust them with the other rolls.  

what a fucking shitshow.

i just made a throwaway account to check, and it's true.
they keep the client seed and the nonce the same, but they change the server seed after each bet.

how did no one who played on betpanda not check this before untill now? this is crazy.

https://talkimg.com/images/2026/03/18/UkxM53.png  https://talkimg.com/images/2026/03/18/UkxGE8.png  https://talkimg.com/images/2026/03/18/UkxQAZ.png

the entire point of a having provably fair system is for the server seed to not change after a player sets up their client seed, and should only be changed if the player requests a seed rotation.
if the house knows the client seed, and the nonce doesn't increments with each bet, they can rig every bet if they want to.

I have come across 2 players who were complaining of this for more than 1+ year.

They eventually gave up and went elsewhere - There is no player chat to discuss in the casino, support dismisses it, and places like this forum don't take these accusations seriously because the player will appear like a loser who is complaining, and most members here, not their fault, don't really understand provably fair as even the smallest casinos have defaulted to a working provably fair system.

RTP charts, reputation, etc. give a false assurance to players they don't realize that even if this is suspected, Betpanda can just ignore it, and even if it starts affecting their business, they can just claim it was an accident.

It took 20-40 years to find out Bernie Madoff was running a ponzi. All the signs were there, and there were accusations it was obviously a ponzi which went unnoticed. It is very easy to fool all of us, you won't think it is happening.

[memehunter]

this forum don't take these accusations seriously because the player will appear like a loser who is complaining

Not at all, some of us regularly read and decide based on merits. No one should ever feel that way.

not their fault, don't really understand provably fair

That is the main reason I am not involved. I have already expressed it in the ANN thread of Betpanda in this post. I have even raised similar concerns about one other platform.
It is good that you have posted a dedicated topic, now I am confident that more reputed and wise members like @Zwei and @Rating Place will notice it and Betpanda will take actions, avoiding these type of community concerns, is simply bad for business. 

[rohang]

In Betpanda the nonce stays the same.   The server seed changes on every bet.   When you stop autobet, the server seed hash you saved before the session is useless after the first roll. You can only verify bet #1. You just have to trust them with the other rolls.  

what a fucking shitshow.

i just made a throwaway account to check, and it's true.
they keep the client seed and the nonce the same, but they change the server seed after each bet.

how did no one who played on betpanda not check this before untill now? this is crazy.



the entire point of a having provably fair system is for the server seed to not change after a player sets up their client seed, and should only be changed if the player requests a seed rotation.
if the house knows the client seed, and the nonce doesn't increments with each bet, they can rig every bet if they want to.

saw something like this on X as well,

Most people never verify their bets so its possible this wasnt found before, betpanda has alot of other issues as well. Now they have even stopped the sig campaign so may be unlikely they respond to this

[doggywin]

Apologies for the initial imprecision. Reading things outside of sportsbook range like you wrote, is the same as reading mandarin for me.

As for the sportsbook part you wrote, you are somewhat correct. The sportsbook provider(betby) does indeed flag winning players. But that is fair and normal with any sportsbook provider. It's okay to flag winners since it's not profitable for casinos in the long run to keep winners for an extended period of time. The problem is while the legit casinos using betby, limit the player, betpanda bans and confiscates winnings. Flagging and limiting is okay. Robbing is not okay.

Betby is not doing anything fair or normal. They are using AI to identify accounts as "suspicious betting behavior," "arbitrage," "value betting," or placing bets at "wrong odds.", and their AI hands out flags like big winning streak = flag. Betby gives this AI flag to Betpanda or others without manual check (saves $$ by hiring less, I guess).

Betpanda and some other sportsbooks that use Betby gives a shitty explanation like ToS violated or copy and paste the AI flag from Betby to keep the player's money. Taking the big winners money and the losers money is extremely profitable.

Betby too is responsible in these by claiming they have cutting edge technology and flagging legitimate winning streaks as suspicious, and should be accused. If you lost money email them too request a manual check and if amount is large enough consider legal options info@betby.com

Platforms that abuse betby AI flags to seize player funds, worst first - Betpanda,  BC game, Foruntejack, Betfury, Coins game
Platforms that handle AI flags better - 500 casino, Rollbit

this forum don't take these accusations seriously because the player will appear like a loser who is complaining

Not at all, some of us regularly read and decide based on merits. No one should ever feel that way.

not their fault, don't really understand provably fair

That is the main reason I am not involved. I have already expressed it in the ANN thread of Betpanda in this post. I have even raised similar concerns about one other platform.
It is good that you have posted a dedicated topic, now I am confident that more reputed and wise members like @Zwei and @Rating Place will notice it and Betpanda will take actions, avoiding these type of community concerns, is simply bad for business.  

Earnbet originals are not provably fair, but it is quite obvious they are not provably fair. They are a lazy ass casino where bugs take weeks to fix, had a big incident where they paid withdrawals twice lost probably $50k-$200k, withdrawals on weekends take a day or more, etc.

I don't suspect Earnbet of manipulating bets. Possible, but low risk.

Betpanda is well-funded, almost instant withdrawals, no live chat, and their original games had functioning provably fair which they removed. They correct most bugs within hours, and this provably fair is actually a very easy fix. Why are they not correcting their provably fair system despite highroller complaints for more than a year?

[T1HGO]

You are absolutely correct about betby's flagging. But as long as the flagging stays at limiting winners and not confiscating fairly won funds, that's what i meant by saying it's fair. Every single sportsbook will limit winners. It's not a betby exclusive "feature".

Even if betby flags a player, at the end of the day, when you press withdrawal button, it's the casino's decision wether they pay or not. Having played at every casino you listed, except for betfury, i haven't experienced anything like with betpanda. Maybe i was lucky. Limited in all of them? Yes. Paid in all of them? Yes. Especially 500 where i played for the longest time.

[Rating Place]

You are absolutely correct about betby's flagging. But as long as the flagging stays at limiting winners and not confiscating fairly won funds, that's what i meant by saying it's fair. Every single sportsbook will limit winners. It's not a betby exclusive "feature".

Even if betby flags a player, at the end of the day, when you press withdrawal button, it's the casino's decision wether they pay or not. Having played at every casino you listed, except for betfury, i haven't experienced anything like with betpanda. Maybe i was lucky. Limited in all of them? Yes. Paid in all of them? Yes. Especially 500 where i played for the longest time.

I put down how Betby works in the jackpotter thread but you are right, it's the book that pays. The book makes the final decision. The flags are just a warning, they don't prove guilt.

Betby is real aggressive and is making a heavy push with the crypto books and South America. A lot of these books don't have much of a risk management team. Instead they are using Betby's AI do all their profiling. The good Betby books make their own decision. The bad ones are going along with Betby's suspicion flags and just confiscating money. As seen here it was only after 4 bets. They player was profiled sharp or value. Confiscating money pays Betby more because of the gross revenue deal that has been negotiated. The good books pay Betby more flat fee and no or small gross revenue percentage. Betby isn't responsible for any losses by the book but take a percentage of the wins by the book. It's the same as any affiliate deal.

[T1HGO]

@Rating Place, that last quote on your comment nailed it. Very good comment. There's another user that made a post about this, @DGUDGUDGU, that i 100% agree, because it matches my own experience.

It’s honestly wild how many new betting sites are launching with terms that explicitly ban arbitrage or value betting.
A few recent examples include Betpanda, Winna, and XYES, with Betpanda being the worst offender especially given how heavily it’s promoted by users on this site.

These rules make absolutely no sense and exist solely to take even more money from customers, on top of what most already lose playing casino games.
Unfortunately, there seems to be a general lack of understanding about sports betting in scam accusation discussions, which is why these sites aren’t getting the pushback they deserve for such predatory terms.

Around 90% of these platforms use Betby as their sportsbook provider. Betby is known for labeling and limiting sharp or consistently winning players.
But to be clear, Betby themselves do not instruct operators to confiscate funds. I know this firsthand from someone who works there.

Arbitrage Betting

Arbitrage betting (arbing) involves placing bets on different odds across multiple sportsbooks to guarantee a profit, regardless of the outcome of the match.

To do this, you need at least two completely separate sets of lines (oddsets). In other words, you can’t arbitrage bet using just one or even two Betby sportsbooks.
This is something I even had to explain to the user holydarkness, who didn’t seem to understand how arbitrage works.

Moreover, a sportsbook has no visibility into the other side of your arbitrage position.
What’s actually happening is that Betby flags players as “value bettors” or “sharps” and the sportsbooks are misusing the term arbitrage to justify restrictions and confiscations.

Value Betting - the Real Issue

Value betting means placing bets that, over the long term, have a positive expected return. You’re simply identifying situations where the sportsbook’s odds don’t accurately reflect the true probability of an outcome, which should be the entire point of sports betting: to win money from the bets you're placing.

Yet on some of these sites, value betting is treated as a violation, and plently of players have had their funds confiscated as a result.

So if you believe you have a better read on an NBA or football game than platforms like Winna or Betpanda, it’s best to avoid betting there altogether.

Think about how absurd this is:

If you lose, they’ll happily keep taking your money.
If you win, they’ll accuse you of breaking the rules and take your money anyway.

There’s simply no way to win in that setup.

The Solution

The only real protection you have is reading the site’s Terms of Service before depositing.

If you see anything about banning arbitrage or value betting, treat that site like the plague and stay far away.

Here are some quotes from the sites themselves, confiscating balances:

Hey, you already got an explanation regarding your case by the support team.

Our sports fraud team flagged your account for abusing odds in an unfair manner ("value betting") which violates our Terms of Service. This is a common practice and policy on every major sportsbook provider.

You were informed about the decision and your account got locked because of that.

Best,
Bennett

We regret that your account was flagged by our odds provider as engaging in value betting behavior. In accordance with our Terms of Service, your account has been permanently closed following a thorough review.

Please be reminded that value betting and other forms of arbitrage are strictly prohibited on XYES.com. We urge all users to carefully read and understand our Terms and Conditions prior to opening an account to avoid any misunderstandings or disputes.

Thank you for your attention.

Hello,

Apologies for the delayed reply and the inactivity of our Support in replying to your case.

However, the details I can provide you with are as follows:

The clause of our Terms & Conditions which was breached is the following one:

5. ANTI-FRAUD POLICY

In the interests of fair play, it is not permitted to utilise or deploy any novel or recognised betting techniques while using our services which are designed to circumvent the standard house edge in our casino games nor the sportsbook. Should we detect that You have engaged in any activity of this nature, we may immediately suspend, terminate or restrict access to Your Account and/or retain any funds on the account.

Our Sportsbook provider Betby carries out the investigation and gives us general information of the outcome, so I can only share with you the information which they provide us. They informed that they detected multiple suspicious bets of varying nature flagged, which led to the investigation.

We do understand that this is not the outcome you were looking for, but unfortunately the Terms have been breached and this is the end result.

I’m happy to have an open discussion about this with anyone, but I want to make one final point before wrapping up this thread.

The vast majority of crypto casinos, including all the major well known names such as:

Stake, 500 Casino, Roobet, Duel, LuckyBlock, MonkeyTilt, BetOnline, Cloudbet, CSGOEmpire, BetHog, Sportsbet.io, Jackbit, Bovada (and many more!)

DO NOT confiscate funds for value or arbitrage betting.

This weird narrative, which is pushed by users and the Bitcointalk accounts associated with Winna, Betpanda, and XYES:
that such confiscations of funds are “industry standard” is completely false, they have NO IDEA how the industry works.

Many of the sites listed above even use Betby as their sportsbook provider... (Duel, 500, Roobet, Empire, Luckyblock)
The difference is that they don’t maliciously misinterpret Betbys flags as a license to seize player winnings.

That is all I had to say, good day  

[doggywin]

You are absolutely correct about betby's flagging. But as long as the flagging stays at limiting winners and not confiscating fairly won funds, that's what i meant by saying it's fair. Every single sportsbook will limit winners. It's not a betby exclusive "feature".

Even if betby flags a player, at the end of the day, when you press withdrawal button, it's the casino's decision wether they pay or not. Having played at every casino you listed, except for betfury, i haven't experienced anything like with betpanda. Maybe i was lucky. Limited in all of them? Yes. Paid in all of them? Yes. Especially 500 where i played for the longest time.

Betpanda is the #1 offender, we agree on that. But Betby is guilty too for aggressive flagging.

If I lost lot of money I legitimately won, I would approach Betby too, accusing Betpanda and them for enabling it, to put pressure on Betpanda from the other end. If Betpanda is using their product to seize winnings and sometimes deposits from players of different countries, shouldn't that business relationship be a liability for Betby?

https://betby.com/en/ai-labs/
Not the real time activity alerts to restrict players, the profiling and suspicious activity detection:

99% increase in suspicious activity detection

Betby has a practice of voiding bets after matches have concluded and results are known saying "wrong odds". This is not industry practice. Place some additional blame on them.

[Mahdirakib]

the entire point of a having provably fair system is for the server seed to not change after a player sets up their client seed, and should only be changed if the player requests a seed rotation.

Yeah, this is how the system should work there. There should be a perfect combination of server seed, client seed and nonce in the provably fair system.

if the house knows the client seed, and the nonce doesn't increments with each bet, they can rig every bet if they want to.

But Betpanda is completely doing something wrong here. I hope you have heard the name of LuckyGames, it was one of the most popular casinos in the crypto gambling industry. But there was question about their provably fair system as they weren't using nonce for their games: Luckygames.io – The monarch of manipulation?.

The situation is pretty same here for Betpanda. I wanted to check how the system was working in the past. Unfortunately, Betpanda doesn't allow the user to check old bets.

[Rating Place]

You are absolutely correct about betby's flagging. But as long as the flagging stays at limiting winners and not confiscating fairly won funds, that's what i meant by saying it's fair. Every single sportsbook will limit winners. It's not a betby exclusive "feature".

Even if betby flags a player, at the end of the day, when you press withdrawal button, it's the casino's decision wether they pay or not. Having played at every casino you listed, except for betfury, i haven't experienced anything like with betpanda. Maybe i was lucky. Limited in all of them? Yes. Paid in all of them? Yes. Especially 500 where i played for the longest time.

Betpanda is the #1 offender, we agree on that. But Betby is guilty too for aggressive flagging.

If I lost lot of money I legitimately won, I would approach Betby too, accusing Betpanda and them for enabling it, to put pressure on Betpanda from the other end. If Betpanda is using their product to seize winnings and sometimes deposits from players of different countries, shouldn't that business relationship be a liability for Betby?

https://betby.com/en/ai-labs/
Not the real time activity alerts to restrict players, the profiling and suspicious activity detection:

99% increase in suspicious activity detection

Betby has a practice of voiding bets after matches have concluded and results are known saying "wrong odds". This is not industry practice. Place some additional blame on them.

Unfortunately there is no liability for Betby since they have a B2B (business to business) license. Betby gives information to books and then the book can grade the bets however they want. Betby isn't going to work with us players.

The ToS is different at each book. The books can customize their book such as changing margins or deleting markets.

[doggywin]

You are absolutely correct about betby's flagging. But as long as the flagging stays at limiting winners and not confiscating fairly won funds, that's what i meant by saying it's fair. Every single sportsbook will limit winners. It's not a betby exclusive "feature".

Even if betby flags a player, at the end of the day, when you press withdrawal button, it's the casino's decision wether they pay or not. Having played at every casino you listed, except for betfury, i haven't experienced anything like with betpanda. Maybe i was lucky. Limited in all of them? Yes. Paid in all of them? Yes. Especially 500 where i played for the longest time.

Betpanda is the #1 offender, we agree on that. But Betby is guilty too for aggressive flagging.

If I lost lot of money I legitimately won, I would approach Betby too, accusing Betpanda and them for enabling it, to put pressure on Betpanda from the other end. If Betpanda is using their product to seize winnings and sometimes deposits from players of different countries, shouldn't that business relationship be a liability for Betby?

https://betby.com/en/ai-labs/
Not the real time activity alerts to restrict players, the profiling and suspicious activity detection:

99% increase in suspicious activity detection

Betby has a practice of voiding bets after matches have concluded and results are known saying "wrong odds". This is not industry practice. Place some additional blame on them.

Unfortunately there is no liability for Betby since they have a B2B (business to business) license. Betby gives information to books and then the book can grade the bets however they want. Betby isn't going to work with us players.

The ToS is different at each book. The books can customize their book such as changing margins or deleting markets.

You are wrong though. If their product is sold to an anonymous operator that scams legitimate winnings of citizens of regulated countries, while they are fully aware of it and continue to do facilitate them, they are liable. Victims have a claim on the money Betpanda pays Betby.

Statutory law overrides terms of service.

[Rating Place]

You are absolutely correct about betby's flagging. But as long as the flagging stays at limiting winners and not confiscating fairly won funds, that's what i meant by saying it's fair. Every single sportsbook will limit winners. It's not a betby exclusive "feature".

Even if betby flags a player, at the end of the day, when you press withdrawal button, it's the casino's decision wether they pay or not. Having played at every casino you listed, except for betfury, i haven't experienced anything like with betpanda. Maybe i was lucky. Limited in all of them? Yes. Paid in all of them? Yes. Especially 500 where i played for the longest time.

Betpanda is the #1 offender, we agree on that. But Betby is guilty too for aggressive flagging.

If I lost lot of money I legitimately won, I would approach Betby too, accusing Betpanda and them for enabling it, to put pressure on Betpanda from the other end. If Betpanda is using their product to seize winnings and sometimes deposits from players of different countries, shouldn't that business relationship be a liability for Betby?

https://betby.com/en/ai-labs/
Not the real time activity alerts to restrict players, the profiling and suspicious activity detection:

99% increase in suspicious activity detection

Betby has a practice of voiding bets after matches have concluded and results are known saying "wrong odds". This is not industry practice. Place some additional blame on them.

Unfortunately there is no liability for Betby since they have a B2B (business to business) license. Betby gives information to books and then the book can grade the bets however they want. Betby isn't going to work with us players.

The ToS is different at each book. The books can customize their book such as changing margins or deleting markets.

You are wrong though. If their product is sold to an anonymous operator that scams legitimate winnings of citizens of regulated countries, while they are fully aware of it and continue to do facilitate them, they are liable. Victims have a claim on the money Betpanda pays Betby.

Statutory law overrides terms of service.

Believe me, I'm not wrong. Betby isn't scamming anyone. They could put their lines 20 points off and give that to the book. They are giving information to a sportsbook. They aren't gambling. If books get mad at the Betby product, they switch to a new provider. If the book has crazy ToS, that's between the player and book. Betby doesn't make the rules.

The book could use Betradar, Don Best or anyone else to grade the bets. The odds can be at one place and the grading at another.