Bird singing contest or hidden gambling?

[Slow death]

This is yet another example of a government with a failed gambling policy. Banning or prohibiting gambling is not a solution; on the contrary, it creates another very serious problem: illegal betting. Illegal betting generates a lot of crime because the organizers feel powerful enough to commit atrocities when they are not paid. Governments should focus on allowing gambling and regulating it properly.

Fortunately, in my country, gambling is legal and permitted, and there are hundreds of physical and online casinos, and many betting shops with physical offices. I wonder how the government of this country feels when they discover that people are betting on which bird will sing the loudest; people will always want to bet on something. That's why it's important to legalize and not prohibit.

[Wakate]

This is the format for almost any competition style event out there. Participants pay some form of entry fee and they compete for the grand price with winners decided based on their performance. This is worlds apart to what actual gambling is, if you are to categorize this as such then almost every event in the country will be banned.

What the OP has described could be seen and regarded as a normal contest, a singing competition, or whatever they can tag it as, and it's not necessarily gambling. Even in places where gambling is legal, such events exist and are very common. People who like to stake their money on something who are live at the event could undergo some side bets, but the event itself can't really be regarded as betting.

I don't see bird singing contest as a form of gambling but a mere competition which people can decide to bet on it to see if they will become profitable. We also have animal competitions like horse racing, dog racing, foul fight and others which where not originally created as a form of gambling but people decided to bet on different participation so they can be profitable at least.

[rbynxx]

Nah, I don't think that's a form of gambling, more like a healthy and competitive competition for both the owners and their lovely pets. Just because there's an entry fee that wouldn't mean it's a form of a gambling activity. There could be reasons on why there's an entry fee, it could be pooled to pay to winners, pay the people who organized it or those they hired to make the even successful, pay the necessary things that has been used from the competition, etc.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Even though this is considered a hobby competition, there are some elements that resemble gambling:

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

Because of this, some people think this is a form of legal gambling, even in a country that bans gambling.
Others say it is just a competition and hobby, not gambling.

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

I honestly don't consider this as gambling if it's just participants paying fees to enter the competition, and also that there are prizes to be won by the contestants because of course every competition must have prizes which the winners will go home with, this is not mean they gambled..

The only area where this begins to look like it actually does permit indirect gambling in a nation where gambling is out rightly banned Is where viewers are allowed to place bets between themselves on which bird they think will win the competition, if the authorities know about the viewer placing bets within themselves and yet do nothing about it, then I agree what the country does permit gambling indirectly..
But if the authorities are actually against this behavior and can arrest and punish any body or group of person caught in the act of placing bets within themselves, then it means that the country is actually strict on their gambling ban, and it's only some citizens that decide to take advantage of seasons like this to gamble illegally.

[julerz12]

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

This is pretty much how all of the singing contests are formatted: have a prize, and most often, participants pay a fee to be able to participate. Some contests even pool those participation fees and include it on the prize pool. The only difference in this one is that it is particularly intended for birds rather than humans. 
Side bets are common on any event, especially in contests. Any bystander watching the event or contest could softly whisper to whoever is standing beside him and make a side bet, and there's nothing the authorities can do about it.
Also, if the government itself (which already banned gambling in the first place) allows the organizers to get permits for this contest to be held, then it can't be considered one. If this were done with zero permits, hidden underground like some kind of fishy mafia activity, maybe that would make it illegal gambling. 

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

What we should be after is the achievements we have either in having fun by being entertained through playing those games, or gambling from as well as having unending opportunity at the same time with the fun from the futures we are seeing, this is more of playing games and being entertained and also some are taking it as an opportunity to play their bets over it as the avenue to do so has been created.

[jcojci]

If the contest just select the singing quality, rhythm, and performance, that is not gambling. But the audience use this chance to make money. I don't know how they gamble using that contest but I know this contest is available in my area.

Many people watching and listening the sounds and pick their choice as the winner. But jury will be the end vote. Maybe that is a competition and hobby but some will say that is gambling. It is depends on how people see it.

[_act_]

If the contest just select the singing quality, rhythm, and performance, that is not gambling. But the audience use this chance to make money. I don't know how they gamble using that contest but I know this contest is available in my area.

It is just like saying people that contribute money to do a competition, that it is not betting. I do not believe that at all, it is better to me. Unless the money that the competitors contribute is not the money that is given to the winner. There are some games that can be sponsored and the companies that sponsor the competition will pay for the money that would be given to the winners which I can not consider it as gambling.

[ultrloa]

If the contest just select the singing quality, rhythm, and performance, that is not gambling. But the audience use this chance to make money. I don't know how they gamble using that contest but I know this contest is available in my area.

It is just like saying people that contribute money to do a competition, that it is not betting. I do not believe that at all, it is better to me. Unless the money that the competitors contribute is not the money that is given to the winner. There are some games that can be sponsored and the companies that sponsor the competition will pay for the money that would be given to the winners which I can not consider it as gambling.

If the organizers set up an event and there's no need for participants to pay some amount just to participate well in that set up we cannot call it gambling.

But if there's some entry fee and they and participants aim to win the prize well that can simply categorized as gambling which is hidden on a bird singing contest.

Also yeah if this is not gambling they can ask some sponsor to help them on that event, but it seems that the organizers choose to collect the money of people joined then give some reward on what they can get to them. So for me that's gambling.

[libert19]

If you bet on it, you are gambling. But, this competition in itself is not gambling. One can bet on anything in this world, it doesn't make whatever being bet on is gambling.

I don't know how the winner is determined; is is determined by which bird sings best or which bird is the first to sing?

Read the article linked in op.

[retreat]

Some might view these bird contests as gambling, but upon closer examination, they're different. In bird contests, even though you pay entry fees, the final outcome is still determined by judges who assess the quality of the birds' songs, their physical appearance, and many other factors. So, it's like a contest of skill.

What could be considered gambling is people betting on the sidelines, betting on which bird will win, and that's prohibited. But despite the committee's strong prohibitions, there are still people who open up access to bets on each bird contest. They are usually backed by the authorities, so they don't fear the threat of criminal charges.

[Hispo]

Some might view these bird contests as gambling, but upon closer examination, they're different. In bird contests, even though you pay entry fees, the final outcome is still determined by judges who assess the quality of the birds' songs, their physical appearance, and many other factors. So, it's like a contest of skill.

What could be considered gambling is people betting on the sidelines, betting on which bird will win, and that's prohibited. But despite the committee's strong prohibitions, there are still people who open up access to bets on each bird contest. They are usually backed by the authorities, so they don't fear the threat of criminal charges.

It is actually pretty usual to see authorities to secretly back up gambling and betting, even though it is forbidden within the country. In the end it is all about greed and opportunities to profit of people's boredom and seek for entertainment.

Recently I saw a thread about pond/fishing competitions in countries where gambling is banned, which was silly enough, but this thing with birds is a completely new level of silliness, and as I said, I don't think it has much to do with gambling by itself.

[joeperry]

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

I didn't know that this was a thing, how do they even compared the birds sounds and what are their standard in checking each one? Personally I think this kind of activities are just competition but people just relates it to gambling, actually everything can be a gambling for instance, the war in Iran, the price hike, etc. everything can be considered nowadays as gambling that's why my definition is as long as you pay something and you have a chance to get something in return, then it's considered gambling. However, I just realized that you need to pay fee to participate, then yes I think it can be considered as gambling.

[aoluain]

• Participants pay entry fees

This is standard for any public event, it pays for the cost of organising the event [some though are free also]

• There are prize pools for winners

Assuming you get a ticket when you pay your entry fee well then thats just a raffle isnt it? a benefit and a chance
to win a prize, a thank you for supporting the event and attracts an added number of patrons.

• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

Thats different, thats gambling. While any event organiser doesnt provide a form of gambling officially
if the general public decide to make bets on an outcome, that can be classed as gambling.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

This is not a real gambling because it's not designed in such a way that it has odds where by people can win only based on the amount they staked with and also the odd they got at the end. This kind of competitions has its rules which is different from the normal rules of gambling. For example, when someone wins the competition, their prize is fixed, no negotiations based on odds.

It's just like inter-house sports which schools always organizes for their students during some semesters. They group the students to different house and they participate in so many sports activities and at the end, only one group is going to win the real prize. It's not gambling but just a hobby.

[bubilas]

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514e3251444e7a457a6333566d54/index.html

Because of this, some people think this is a form of legal gambling, even in a country that bans gambling.
Others say it is just a competition and hobby, not gambling.

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

It sounds as strange as possible, because evaluating birdsong is like a very purely individual concept of taste. I mean, the judge can easily place a bet through his friends, they will bring this bird and they will make a trick when this judge says that this is the coolest bird and that it sings the best. Isn't that right? But the very meaning of gambling, which is not really gambling, is widespread in Japan, where people play for some tokens and then exchange them for real money. I watched about it in one of the recent shows.

[bakasabo]

This is not the first time people try to hide gambling behind other activity. In video gaming industry, in-game purchases/lootboxes with random rewards (which are gambling imo), some game developers name as "surprise mechanics" and that allow them to get low age rating to increase game sales and legally implement gambling into game. With "surprise mechanics" as description any gambling activity turns into paying for entertainment, and is not counted as gambling...

[Toro iskandar]

Participants pay some form of entry fee and they compete for the grand price with winners decided based on their performance.

When a bird performs well and has a better voice than the others, it still doesn’t always guarantee a win in the competition. Sometimes it feels like it depends on luck. And if something depends on luck, couldn’t it be considered a form of gambling?

I don't know how the winner is determined; is is determined by which bird sings best or which bird is the first to sing? If there is nothing that suggests that luck determines the winner, then this may not be fit to be considered gambling.

In a bird singing competition, birds are judged based on the quality and variety of the songs they perform. However, all scoring ultimately depends on how the judges evaluate them. Sometimes, even a bird with the best voice doesn’t guarantee the highest score. There are also cases where manipulation from the judges can still occur.

why playing card also called as betting not event or competition? because you put your money for the prize pool, while in event, mostly prize pool from sponsors and entry fee for event organizer operational. IMO

Actually, this birdsong competition is almost the same as the card game you said. Participants pay for tickets to get a prize pool. Because there are no sponsors in the birdsong competition. Sometimes there is, but it's very rare.

However, I have not known this type of bird singing. It is strange to me and how would owners control their birds to be quiet when another bird is being accessed

The birds used in these competitions are trained from a very young age, even before their feathers fully grow. From early on, they are conditioned to build strong mental resilience so they’re not easily scared by anything around them. As a result, even when surrounded by many other birds and large crowds, they can stay focused and continue singing.

How much is the fee each participants pay?
Also how much is won?

If the fee is used to service the competitors, it is just a legal gambling.

This is an example.


https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1181995733946570&id=100064084621552

In bird singing competitions, the entry fee is usually around $14–$30, depending on how many slots are available. For example, if the fee is $25 and there are 40 participants, the total prize pool would be about $1000. Around 20% is typically given to the venue owner, while the remaining 80% is distributed to the top 3 winners.

Wouldn’t this be similar to gambling?

[Charles-Tim]

In bird singing competitions, the entry fee is usually around $14–$30, depending on how many slots are available. For example, if the fee is $25 and there are 40 participants, the total prize pool would be about $1000. Around 20% is typically given to the venue owner, while the remaining 80% is distributed to the top 3 winners.

Wouldn’t this be similar to gambling?

With how numerous those people are, they are  paying $14 to $30 before they can participate in the contest. I think the money will even be enough to run the whole contest possibly. This is just another form of gambling in my opinion as long as it is not free. The $14 to $30 that people paid is not for entry or money that they use to participate, it is basically the money used for the competition and that is just gambling.

[Cointxz]

It’s not gambling rather a competition since there’s no bet involved rather just an entry fee to enter the contest. You can consider it as sports rather than gambling itself since there’s goal is to compete rather than to risk money in exchange for higher profit.

The classification as gambling relies if this competition has a legal betting for the winner or they are just competing for the competition prize without wagering involved.

Horse racing is the perfect example for both sports and gambling that has same principle with this event.