Bird singing contest or hidden gambling?

[vanesha]

I'm sure there's a clear element of gambling in this competition. It's not about the match, but rather about who their favorite athlete is, which will definitely be the subject of bets. This isn't much different from soccer betting. Pick your favorite and place a bet. I've seen this type of gambling many times; it can still be manipulated, but this type of gambling is more transparent, with the results and process. We can watch the match live, not just playing in the background like in other typical casinos.

[uchegod-21]

I don't know how the winner is determined; is is determined by which bird sings best or which bird is the first to sing? If there is nothing that suggests that luck determines the winner, then this may not be fit to be considered gambling.

In a bird singing competition, birds are judged based on the quality and variety of the songs they perform. However, all scoring ultimately depends on how the judges evaluate them. Sometimes, even a bird with the best voice doesn’t guarantee the highest score. There are also cases where manipulation from the judges can still occur.

Thanks for this explanation. However, judging from your explanation, it is obvious that this is a skill based contest like every other contest out there that has specific rules. Like I said before, this kind of contest cannot be considered gambling in anyway; the winners do not win by luck,  it is just a means of entertainment.

[Sim_card]

The best wins the prize and in gambling there's no best because it's a game of luck and not a competition. It's just like a football competition without any casino putting it in their sportbook, giving nobody the access to gamble on the competition. Side bets cannot be stopped because it's always between two or more people without the casino being involved making it a secret and untraceable.

[Dunamisx]

Gambling is always fun as we may want it, that is why you can see that everyone chooses their desired game to play, once we can have fun in it, then we should play such, they exist in various forms and this one I'm seeing here also look more interesting to play because it's all about bird singing, one of the motivation to why some are gambling is because of the type of game they are playing, which is more fascinating to them.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

Side bets cannot be controlled. My mate and I could make a side bet on a football match in one of those countries that gambling is banned, I am sure I will not be committing a crime and it cannot be tracked even.

It is true that it cannot be controlled but that doesn't change the fact that they can be considered gambling since some amounts are wagered towards the outcome of an event.

It appears that what is clearly banned in these countries are both online and physical casinos of any sort and not necessarily every grassroot gambling activity since some of them still have access to prediction markets, if not most.

• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

I can exempt the first two since I see it as a competition proceedings and such are obtainable, but the third point there is purely gambling, it can as well be called peer-peer gambling.

[m2017]

Contests with entry fees and prize pools cannot be considered gambling, as long as there are no cash bets on the winner (or any other outcome of the event).

A bird singing contest is not gambling. But if there are bets (cash), for example, on the winner (the best songbird), that would be gambling.

Your story with the birds reminded me of another example: cockfights with cash bets are clearly gambling.

But I understand your train of thought, and I believe that in some countries (which prohibit gambling), there may indeed be contests or events, often linked to regional and cultural traditions, that are very reminiscent of gambling.

[NurseHub]

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514e3251444e7a457a6333566d54/index.html

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win


What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

‎According to your perspective of gambling, the fee they pay and the prize they get are same pattern as gambling. But no it's are not enough to make it gambling. It's basically a contest, and there are a lot of contests like that in the world. If it's considered gambling, which is illegal in some countries, then all contests will be put to an end. Even in modelling, people pay a fee to go for a modelling competition, and the winner goes home with a prize. ‎Another aspect of this game is they determine the winner by the best performers, but in gambling like sports, the winner can come through a silly mistake from players, the coach or even the keeper, making the win not mostly by performers.

[nimogsm]

Even though this is considered a hobby competition, there are some elements that resemble gambling:

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

Because of this, some people think this is a form of legal gambling, even in a country that bans gambling.
Others say it is just a competition and hobby, not gambling.

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

I love this forum because you can always learn something new. I didn't know such a competition existed; it's interesting. Entry fees are likely used to cover the organizers' event expenses, and sponsors can allocate funds to the winner; I don't think the amount is very large. I wouldn't draw an analogy with gambling, since dog and cat shows operate under a similar model.

[Ishicryptic]

When we talk about gambling what comes to mind is casino games and sports bet because they are recognized standards where people stake their money to win or lose it. There are also some contests that have some elements of gambling in them even though they are not considered as gambling games, I choose to call such games indirect gambling because they have features of gambling. If a game or contest where perticipants pay fees to register and it's from the fees that the organisers use to organize the contest and it's from there that they will pay winners of the contest and also make profit then it's indirect gambling. It is not so much different from lottery where many people buy tickets and a very few wins while the organizers pockets the rest.

[michellee]

That is hidden gambling since people will not show if they bet for bird. They picking the bird and pay to the dealer and wait for which bird will win. The contest itself might not be gambling as that is a contest bird and the jury pick the winner based on their evaluation and those who bet will not show that they bet and just watch from far.

[Grace333]

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

This is the format for almost any competition style event out there. Participants pay some form of entry fee and they compete for the grand price with winners decided based on their performance. This is worlds apart to what actual gambling is, if you are to categorize this as such then almost every event in the country will be banned.

Side bets cannot be controlled. My mate and I could make a side bet on a football match in one of those countries that gambling is banned, I am sure I will not be committing a crime and it cannot be tracked even.

- Jay -

So what do you suggest? Are you saying it's not gamble? We'll here is what I think, provided there is a need for entry i consider it to be gamble irrespective of the fact that they call it competition, though it might not have same betting style as casino games or sports betting but it actually is in a different and more accepted form. If we are to use the definition of gamble we'll discover that alot of our actions involved gamble by using bait to trigger reward.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

That is hidden gambling since people will not show if they bet for bird. They picking the bird and pay to the dealer and wait for which bird will win. The contest itself might not be gambling as that is a contest bird and the jury pick the winner based on their evaluation and those who bet will not show that they bet and just watch from far.

In a nutshell, anything can literally be gambled upon, because it just requires two or more individuals who are willing to stake a certain amount of money over a predictably possible outcome of an event. And when it comes to this bird singing contest, the gambling aspect of it might not be even publicly known, as it might be within a certain group of cartels. And when it comes to the Bird singing contest originally, it can't be called gambling, despite the fact that people pay for a ticket and just a few whose birds could sing melodiously are privileged to win a reward.

[jostorres]

This is yet another example of a government with a failed gambling policy. Banning or prohibiting gambling is not a solution; on the contrary, it creates another very serious problem: illegal betting. Illegal betting generates a lot of crime because the organizers feel powerful enough to commit atrocities when they are not paid. Governments should focus on allowing gambling and regulating it properly.

You hit the nail on the head. Just because governments ban something doesn't mean people still stop doing it; those who want will find some way out of it. This is why, usually the governments allow certain things but impose high taxes, so it's discouraged but still allowed. Because, banning only leads to illegal markets and shady practices.

I get the sentiment that the government doesn't want its citizens to fall into gambling addiction and all that stuff but more people benefit from gambling as a means of entertainment than those who are addicted. And even then, they can prioritize mental health and awareness about gambling problems instead of banning it and giving birth to an all-new illegal world of betting.

[Lucius]

The bird that sings most beautifully is the one that is free - that is a very simple truth. I don't know if there are elements of gambling, but if it is about monetary prizes, then there is definitely corruption.

Besides, how can anyone judge which bird sings the best given so many birds in one place?

[serjent05]

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

This is clearly a contest.  The event organizer wanted to profit from the contest, thus the entry fee.  The winner is not chosen by random, which contrasts with the nature of gambling.  The gambling on this is the side bet which is actually independent from the event.

For me, this is not gambling at all, not because someone has to pay an entry fee, it is automatically a gambling activity. 

The bird that sings most beautifully is the one that is free - that is a very simple truth. I don't know if there are elements of gambling, but if it is about monetary prizes, then there is definitely corruption.

Besides, how can anyone judge which bird sings the best given so many birds in one place?

Probably, there is already a designated winner even before the contest begins.

[xLays]

I think it really depends on personal perspective. For me, as long as money is involved and you have to place a bet, I consider it gambling. But if you’re just choosing a winner without risking any money, then for me that’s more of a contest, not gambling.
This reminds me of what happened recently with the New York government fining Valve because of the gambling features related to in-game items that can be used for betting. It feels like a similar situation.

[Vaculin]

Honestly, I don't see signs of gambling there. Of course, when you join a competition, you should register first and make some payment. That is not gambling, but a usual competition that create winners and prizes in the end.

We don't have like that in our country, as most of the birds here are not being pet, but they are given freedom to fly wherever they want. But as long as its not a game of chance and luck, then it will never be seen as gambling.

[Shinpako09]

It’s a contest, and the entry fee, prize pool, and side bets are usually part of it. Even in other contests, the audience places side bets, and it’s completely normal. Even if it happens daily, it’s still a contest. Maybe audience members who place side bets daily are engaging in gambling. But if it isn’t held daily, I think it’s more for entertainment than gambling, even if side bets are involved.

[qwertyup23]

• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win
What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

I think this is what made it categorized as implied gambling due to the presence of side bets made by the people. But at the end of the day, can we really prevent side bets from happening?

I submit that this competition cannot be liken to gambling even though some of its elements are present. At the end of the day, the competition is still judged by persons depending on several factors. It is not purely luck but an application of skill where you train your birds to actually sing.

Unfortunately, however, those side bets made by persons are purely gambling but it’s impossible to control and penalize these people due to their personal arrangement and circumstance.

[alegotardo]

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

In this case, a type of skill is evaluated;=, so its not just about betting on luck or who will win... you need to participate actively in the competition to win your  prize. It is different of simply put your money into something and expecting a financial return without giving anything in return.

In short, several competitions follow the same model and I do not believe it should be confused with gambling because the essence between those is very different and perceptible.

and... are people using this as a pretext to make money? I believe of shure! I believe that professional competitors do this, but in this example that you cited, it seems to me that this is really an amateur competition, and people are participating because they enjoy the hobby and not because they want to win the cash prize.