What if customers don't use lightning

[peter0425]

Generally in business, the owners are the ones to adjust what they’ll accept. They accept what is usually used by many so it’s easier. If most of their customers don’t use LN then they might just switch back to on-chain transactions. It should still be an option but only accepting through LN will be tough for their business.

[noorman0]

-snip-
With a little bit higher fee it's already viable way to make a daily transaction.

If customers have to pay more, their initiative is only buying an experience and I am not sure they will continue to use this method in the long run because it is a bigger obstacle besides the transaction completion time.

[348Judah]

If I may bring my suggestion in this way, setting a business should be based on with the use of lightning network for your transactions, however, we can also made an alternative payment medium by using the unchain transaction for the same bitcoin you are sending, making the two available for every potential customer to either use the lightning network or the onchain transaction for their payment.

[gunhell16]

Since Bitcoin Lightening Network is the fastest way to make payment using Bitcoin, as a store owner who wants to start accepting Bitcoin as a means of payment are you going to start telling customers to use Lightning network rather than normal Bitcoin transaction?

The main reasons for using the Lightening Network are the speed of confirmations and the low fees. For the store owner, what matters is the speed of confirmations, as this means faster order acceptance. Therefore, for stores that accept Bitcoin for everyday use, adding the Lightening Network is a great advantage, but it is not for all stores that accept Bitcoin payments.

I'm just curious, mate. Have you tried using the Lightning Network with Bitcoin? Although it's true that the fees are low here besides the transaction being fast, I've never really experienced using it; I just have an idea. That's why I asked you about this.

Then even the majority of Bitcoin communities seem to use only a few of them actually use Lightning, because most of them are still using the old Bitcoin address now;
include me in this matter.

[The Cryptovator]

Since Bitcoin Lightening Network is the fastest way to make payment using Bitcoin, as a store owner who wants to start accepting Bitcoin as a means of payment are you going to start telling customers to use Lightning network rather than normal Bitcoin transaction?

If you are an owner of the business and accepting Bitcoin payment, then you may advise the customer to use the Lightning Network, but you can't depend on the Lightning Network anyway. You must accept Bitcoin and other altcoins as well for easier and faster transactions, including USDT. If not, then most likely you will get customers who want to pay with cryptocurrency.

Due to Bitcoin's high transaction fees and the duration of the transaction, it's quite hard to accept Bitcoin payment for the small amount. For bigger amounts it shouldn't be an issue at all. Lightning Network is one of the solutions, but most of the crypto users aren't well familiar with Lightning Network. Yet Lightning Network hasn't become popular yet.

[Outhue]

There are millions of people holding Bitcoin right now and they have never have a taste of Bitcoin LN before, they have heard about it but them using it makes no sense to them, I don't know why but this is the truth, many people are satisfied with Bitcoin transactions itself not LN.

I think LN is going to be useful for thos who really needs it badly, I am not one of those people, I have used Bitpay service to make payments online several times and I have always use Bitcoin transaction, the thing is since I am making the payment online there is always enough time to wait for confirmation, it doesn't have to speed up.

[coinlary]

I think LN is going to be useful for thos who really needs it badly, I am not one of those people, I have used Bitpay service to make payments online several times and I have always use Bitcoin transaction, the thing is since I am making the payment online there is always enough time to wait for confirmation, it doesn't have to speed up.

That's it, you jusy have to give the customer  some options, not everyone has the whole time to wait just to verify  transaction confirmation like you, online or not .

Some of them need the product or service  as early as possible  and the only way to make that happen is through  lighting if their only choice of payment is  Bitcoin.
If they can wait it out then fine they should, so giving them both options is okay.

[hero_the_bossman]

I think LN is going to be useful for thos who really needs it badly, I am not one of those people, I have used Bitpay service to make payments online several times and I have always use Bitcoin transaction, the thing is since I am making the payment online there is always enough time to wait for confirmation, it doesn't have to speed up.

That's it, you jusy have to give the customer  some options, not everyone has the whole time to wait just to verify  transaction confirmation like you, online or not .

Some of them need the product or service  as early as possible  and the only way to make that happen is through  lighting if their only choice of payment is  Bitcoin.
If they can wait it out then fine they should, so giving them both options is okay.

Yep.

Options is why BTC is there in the end after all, to be able to choose, not to be bound by one system there is

[lionheart78]

Since Bitcoin Lightening Network is the fastest way to make payment using Bitcoin, as a store owner who wants to start accepting Bitcoin as a means of payment are you going to start telling customers to use Lightning network rather than normal Bitcoin transaction?

There is nothing wrong with informing our customers about the Lightning Network.  Whether to use it is up to them, we, as a merchant, just need to be ready to accept payments from different options, whether it be a normal transaction, an in-app transaction (internal transfer from exchanges and othersapplications) or the lightning network.  We need to be flexible to maximize the potential of Bitcoin transactions.

But of course, if we prefer lightning network above other options, we must tell them the advantages.

[EL MOHA]

Then even the majority of Bitcoin communities seem to use only a few of them actually use Lightning, because most of them are still using the old Bitcoin address now;
include me in this matter.

I know what you want to ask like if bitcoin lightning network provides such a clear solution to one of the main problems that using bitcoin for payment actually poses why then do people not use it or why is the adoption not fast growing and you are thinking maybe there is something chasing people away from it? I will say there is absolutely nothing chasing people away from bitcoin lightning other than people do not use bitcoin for payment and that’s why this medium isn’t sorted after most but it’s adoption is actually growing.

People prefer to use bitcoin as investment and just simply hodl on to it and not use it or they only use it for larger transactions which most of the time is a one time thing in a long while and not with a regular person every time, so base on this they think it will be another hassle opening and closing channel which basically is just like making regular transaction on chain (both in fees and confirmation), so they simply pay that fees on the transaction itself,

So in summary lightning network is for micro transactions and bitcoiniers do rarely use bitcoin for micro transactions

[AsvXrin]

Then even the majority of Bitcoin communities seem to use only a few of them actually use Lightning, because most of them are still using the old Bitcoin address now;
include me in this matter.

I know what you want to ask like if bitcoin lightning network provides such a clear solution to one of the main problems that using bitcoin for payment actually poses why then do people not use it or why is the adoption not fast growing and you are thinking maybe there is something chasing people away from it? I will say there is absolutely nothing chasing people away from bitcoin lightning other than people do not use bitcoin for payment and that’s why this medium isn’t sorted after most but it’s adoption is actually growing.

People prefer to use bitcoin as investment and just simply hodl on to it and not use it or they only use it for larger transactions which most of the time is a one time thing in a long while and not with a regular person every time, so base on this they think it will be another hassle opening and closing channel which basically is just like making regular transaction on chain (both in fees and confirmation), so they simply pay that fees on the transaction itself,

So in summary lightning network is for micro transactions and bitcoiniers do rarely use bitcoin for micro transactions

I think one reason many people still do not use Lightning is because on chain bitcoin already works fine for what they normally do. If someone only sends bitcoin once in a while, they may not feel the need to learn another system. Lightning becomes more useful when payments are small and frequent, like buying something cheap or sending small amounts quickly. But for many holders, bitcoin is still mainly treated as savings, so they stay with normal transactions. Maybe adoption will grow more when wallets make Lightning easier to use without extra setup

[bitbollo]

LN or any other way for payment are useful and fast way but shouldn't be enforced on top of bitcoin...
For what I have seen, transaction for "cheap" amounts could just be sent and merchant doesn't wait - no risk of double spend/RBF or transaction pruned due low fee.
If you are running a store, you can also receive a fake bill... in any case you are getting scammed in the same way by not receiving money.
Of course a merchant should have the minimum basis for using bitcoin making it possible and not get scammed.

As you see in each single transaction on chain you can talk about many things related bitcoin:
- time of 10 minutes for each block
- fees for transactions and RBF expenses
- public key
- blockchain explorers

[JangoUnchained]

A merchant should support both. If the customer don't use lightning then try to use normal bitcoin transaction, the fee is already pretty low these days and for first confirmation only take minutes, even faster if the fee is increased a little bit.
With a little bit higher fee it's already viable way to make a daily transaction.

So all we gotta do is, assuming that the transaction fee is $0.21, to make it get approved faster you just have to double it up? Like turning it to $0.40 and the problem is gone? That's not a bad idea since doubling it up won't cost too much.

I think we will never see costly bitcoin transaction fee anymore, this bull market came and go without any network congestion or insane transaction fee like in the past years.

[PrivacyG]

For what I have seen, transaction for "cheap" amounts could just be sent and merchant doesn't wait - no risk of double spend/RBF or transaction pruned due low fee.
If you are running a store, you can also receive a fake bill... in any case you are getting scammed in the same way by not receiving money.

I see your point but I do not know if Double Spending and fake Bank notes are comparable.

Bitcoin does not require any thing to be forged and the effort of producing a clone of its unit to be Double Spent.  Fake Bank notes can be immediately checked by eye or Bank note counters.  Double Spending can happen after a 100 percent legitimate incoming Transaction is seen.

-----

I think we will never see costly bitcoin transaction fee anymore, this bull market came and go without any network congestion or insane transaction fee like in the past years.

No thing has changed in the way Bitcoin works since the last Bull run.  As long as the Network continues to grow, by the time there will be more excitement in the Market the Fees will easily sky rocket again.

[EL MOHA]

I think one reason many people still do not use Lightning is because on chain bitcoin already works fine for what they normally do. If someone only sends bitcoin once in a while, they may not feel the need to learn another system. Lightning becomes more useful when payments are small and frequent, like buying something cheap or sending small amounts quickly. But for many holders, bitcoin is still mainly treated as savings, so they stay with normal transactions. Maybe adoption will grow more when wallets make Lightning easier to use without extra setup

Exactly it’s mostly useful to consistent users of bitcoin for payment method and mostly if the transaction is simply a micro transaction. A clear example is actually buying groceries from a certain store in your local area and the store is actually accepting bitcoin as a payment method plus lightning network option is there, you can open a channel for this to avoid using onchain always when you’re always buying things every day, most especially this things are low price things like $2 or even lower.

Also lightning isn’t usually talked of more because once there is less congestion on the network which is very common this days people turn to that and not look at lightning network for a while.

I see your point but I do not know if Double Spending and fake Bank notes are comparable.

Bitcoin does not require any thing to be forged and the effort of producing a clone of its unit to be Double Spent.  Fake Bank notes can be immediately checked by eye or Bank note counters.  Double Spending can happen after a 100 percent legitimate incoming Transaction is seen.

Double spending can still happen even after a transaction is been confirmed but it gets harder due as confirmation number grows ( could be chain reorg or even 51% attack), sender can still actually do RBF to an unconfirmed transaction but usually businesses to chase after number of confirmation other than 1 for micro transactions because; first the loss is bearable and secondly scammers do not pay attention to it since it’s not such a huge amount

[LanternSapphire]

You don’t force Lightning, you incentivize it. Most merchants simply:

accept Lightning for instant payments
accept on-chain for larger amounts

Lightning = fast, cheap
On-chain = slower, more secure settlement

Good overview here:
https://lightning.network/

Let customers choose, but make the better option obvious.

[Inwestour]

As a consumer, I wouldn't use the Lightning Network simply because it's more convenient and easier. But if you're evaluating this from the perspective of a business that will accept payments, you should offer all possible payment methods for customers, because it might be important for some of them, and it would be a shame if you lost customers simply because you didn't offer the Lightning Network as a payment method.

[Faisal2202]

Since Bitcoin Lightening Network is the fastest way to make payment using Bitcoin, as a store owner who wants to start accepting Bitcoin as a means of payment are you going to start telling customers to use Lightning network rather than normal Bitcoin transaction?

I would like to do that as a store owner because the fee for opening a channel will be paid for one time only, although it is not that much but let's say the customer values the fee a lot. The channel has already been opened, so it is good for our sales, as customers will tend to buy from us rather than buy from someone else, because first, they get to buy with btc, second, they have already opened a channel with us, so they will save money on opening channels with other stores selling the same things.

As a matter of fact, I would prefer Ln over the main network. But only if the customer is willing. A lot of customers are not willing to be honest because they lack information about LN or they are not returning customers. It is good for customers living near you, who usually buy from you.

[Ucy]

Bitcoin feels natural and easy to use/understand, so should its auxiliary systems such as sidechains. It's hard to relate the idea of opening and closing channels to customers especially with things they are familiar with in physical world payment solutions.
Beside, business transactions don't need to feel dark or opaque since users privacy is already protected. It ought to be as transparent as the Bitcoin Network


Notwistanding, Lightening Network is allowed to exist as an alternative auxiliary system while we focus on building something better that feels natural like Bitcoin

[legiteum]

Lightning is the worst of both worlds: it's not Bitcoin and doesn't gain any of Bitcoin's advantages, but it's still really slow (to ultimately settle) and cumbersome to use.

If you want to do payments, use a fast stablecoin. That's what 99% of people do these days because you can be up and running with a few API calls and settlement is instantaneous--and your payment is, well, stable so you don't have to adjust your prices every single day like you would for Bitcoin.