What if Bitcoin never becomes everyday money?

[Hazink]

Nothing will change if it doesn't become everyday money, as long as it can still be used for transactions or investments, that's the most important thing, I think.. because Bitcoin isn't really meant to be everyday money since its network isn't reliable enough to handle large daily transaction volumes quickly, but it can still be an alternative payment method that doesn't require fast settlement, such as cross-border transactions, that's very helpful. and it's also useful for providing financial freedom to its users.

What do you mean by not reliable enough? The network is as reliable as you can imagine. In fact there is no limit to the amount of transaction you can carry out at once, and the slow to confirm transactions is only going to be a problem if there is congestion. If not as long as you are transacting at the normal fee rate within 10 minutes you can get your payment go through 1 confirmation.

[Samlucky O]

Although, some people argue that, Bitcoin didn't achieve it goal. while others argue otherwise, that Bitcoin adopted to what the world actually needed, feel free to give your two cents on this discussion.

You are not far from the truth mate, as I read through your thread I understand every bit of all you have said. My opinion is not far from what you have already Said. Satoshi nakamoto mission for Bitcoin was just for a peer to peer transaction but unfortunately Bitcoin was way more than just a currency for p2p but a great store of value and asset for potential return in the future. At first people though it  will be very useful through p2p but after seeing it's profit over the years, people prefer holding it than wasting fortune for just small transaction. The main point is Bitcoin volatility is what changed the mindset of many to use it not only for the initial plan but for a store of value. If Bitcoin was just a stable coin without volatility, it will have maintain the original plan Satoshi nakamoto had in mind.

[gracreavix]

Nothing will change if it doesn't become everyday money, as long as it can still be used for transactions or investments, that's the most important thing, I think.. because Bitcoin isn't really meant to be everyday money since its network isn't reliable enough to handle large daily transaction volumes quickly, but it can still be an alternative payment method that doesn't require fast settlement, such as cross-border transactions, that's very helpful. and it's also useful for providing financial freedom to its users.

Solid on the the alternative payment side and the investment part too.
Even if it does not become everyday money, it will still work well for moving funds when needed, especially across different borders. And on top of that, I see it more as a store of value for long term. something people would rather hold to preserve their money than spend regularly.

So yeah, it does not really have to be everyday cash to still be very important.

[Satofan44]

Not only volatility, but also scaling issues. Because the main Blockchain network doesn't have enough capacity to handle large transactions per second. This alone, disqualifies BTC to be used as a currency. Money has to be fast, cheap, and practical to use. Altcoins are better suited as "digital cash" due to the way they're designed. Not only they're faster and cheaper to use than BTC, but most of them have inflation built into the protocol.

Wrong, you are an useless shitposter that is spreading shitcoin misinformation all the time. There is not a single shitcoin in existence that is better than Bitcoin. They are all centralized shitcoins, and I can make my own currency faster than anyone else's simply by centralizing it even more than how much the current top "shitcoins" are centralized . It has nothing to do with inflation or any other nonsense that you are writing. Bitcoin is fast enough, it does not need to be faster as it is already much faster than anything that the traditional system uses.

BTC can never become 'everyday money' for one simple reason: you need to have it to spend it. Unless you are always paid in BTC or get it in some other way, you have to buy it with fiat. If you always have fiat then there is no need to always use BTC for everyday transactions.

You are mixing in needs with wants. I may not need to do that, but of course I want to do that. Why wouldn't I? To get to a state of need, you need a legal tender level requirement to force Bitcoin to be widely circulated and used as an unit account. That is an utopian state that is unlikely, but there is nothing that prevents many amounts of people for doing this because they want to. I personally have met many people who buy back any Bitcoin that they spend. With that added anonymity in regards to transactions, and no obstacles in P2P deals or intermediary fees -- who would not want that? I mean people sometimes have transactions flagged when they are sending money from one bank to another between their own accounts, that is how stupid these systems and rules are. Remember, the reason for which we are using the currencies that we are using is not choice -- it is a forced need by the government. If there was a currency free market, the situation would be radically different.

You can't rely on Bitcoin as everyday money for purchasing because of its volatile nature. There are other good purposes for Bitcoin, in which it plays a very important role. Bitcoin is more of a store of value that you invest in and don't plan to use in the short term.

Stop spreading this bullshit, it is incorrect. Most currencies of the world are more volatile than Bitcoin.

Why do so many people still hope that Bitcoin can be used as a means of payment? Honestly, I am not very interested.

Nobody is hoping anything. Just because you are not smart enough to utilize the best aspects of Bitcoin, that does not mean that other people aren't. Plenty of people are using it for all kinds of payments, there are even circular economies built on Bitcoin.

Look at how the network becomes congested, the network when transaction fees are expensive. Yes, I think Bitcoin is not very suitable as a means of payment until the shortcomings it has disappear. In other words, I think Bitcoin is not practical and many people in the world still trust the government and fiat because it is indeed easier.  

Wrong. Fees are extremely cheap most of the time and always cheap for the kind of service that Bitcoin provides. Furthermore, congestion almost never happens, and even if it does you can bypass it by using LN or paying higher fees whichever is more appropriate. Therefore, your claims are false and just represent pure misinformation. Fiat is neither cheaper nor easier.

[Little _damsel]

This particular question has been on my mind to ask long time ago. if Bitcoin never becomes everyday money, does that mean it failed or did it simply evolve into something better?

No, it did not fail. Technology doesn't always becomes what the creator first imagined, sometimes it evolves into what the society finds most valuable.
 
Imagine selling a package for $30 and later find out that the BTC you received is suddenly worth $25 tomorrow or the opposite. the buyer spends the BTC today and regrets it later because the value doubles next month.

That uncertainty makes everyday marketing difficult, a currency used for daily life needs some level of predictability.

I personally think, bitcoin's initial identity has shifted in the minds of many. From spendable digital cash to digital scarcity and long term value storage.

[Hardyrobust]

This particular question has been on my mind to ask long time ago. if Bitcoin never becomes everyday money, does that mean it failed or did it simply evolve into something better?

No, it did not fail. Technology doesn't always becomes what the creator first imagined, sometimes it evolves into what the society finds most valuable.
 
Imagine selling a package for $30 and later find out that the BTC you received is suddenly worth $25 tomorrow or the opposite. the buyer spends the BTC today and regrets it later because the value doubles next month.

That uncertainty makes everyday marketing difficult, a currency used for daily life needs some level of predictability.

I personally think, bitcoin's initial identity has shifted in the minds of many. From spendable digital cash to digital scarcity and long term value storage.

You are right here, the value of bitcoin isn't stable, it may not easily replace fiat. Bitcoin was not created or invented to replace fiat and I it won't replace fiat . Bitcoin is a volatile asset and its value isn't stable so it will be some how difficult to use as local fiat. However this won't affect bitcoin in any way because bitcoin has proven to be far better fiat. The decentralised nature of bitcoin is one thing that will make to stick with bitcoin even if it can replace fiat

[bitcoindusts]

Nothing will change if it doesn't become everyday money, as long as it can still be used for transactions or investments, that's the most important thing, I think.. because Bitcoin isn't really meant to be everyday money since its network isn't reliable enough to handle large daily transaction volumes quickly, but it can still be an alternative payment method that doesn't require fast settlement, such as cross-border transactions, that's very helpful. and it's also useful for providing financial freedom to its users.

What do you mean by not reliable enough? The network is as reliable as you can imagine. In fact there is no limit to the amount of transaction you can carry out at once, and the slow to confirm transactions is only going to be a problem if there is congestion. If not as long as you are transacting at the normal fee rate within 10 minutes you can get your payment go through 1 confirmation.

I think Renampun has a point.  Bitcoin is slow in handling many transactions.  In a fast pace world, having a slow transaction confirmation process is somehow unreliable in terms of speed.  Bitcoin is indeed very reliable in security but it does not mean that it can be very reliable in completing handling hundred thousand to million of transaction per minute.  We are not talking about the limit of transaction Bitcoin can carry but we are talking about the speed of the transaction being confirmed.  We all know that in financial world, seconds delay means millions losses.  As a currency it the speed of the transaction and its confirmation is really crucial.

[Satofan44]

I think Renampun has a point.  Bitcoin is slow in handling many transactions.  In a fast pace world, having a slow transaction confirmation process is somehow unreliable in terms of speed.  Bitcoin is indeed very reliable in security but it does not mean that it can be very reliable in completing handling hundred thousand to million of transaction per minute.  We are not talking about the limit of transaction Bitcoin can carry but we are talking about the speed of the transaction being confirmed.  We all know that in financial world, seconds delay means millions losses.  As a currency it the speed of the transaction and its confirmation is really crucial.

False, you do not know how Bitcoin works and this user Renampun does not have a point. You guys literally do not even understand the basics of Bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions are as fast as possible in a decentralized environment, they take usually at most up to 5 seconds to be propagated to the other side. What else do you need in this "fast pace world"? You are confusing transaction speed with confirmation speed, one has nothing to do with the other. When you tap a Visa card on a terminal, it is almost instant but that is the transaction speed and it is usually reliable -- the actual settlement (confirmation) can take days, weeks, months even in certain cases and scenarios. Therefore, Bitcoin has both:

• A better transaction speed (more reliable) -- you don't see people stuck at a terminal that won't register the card.
• A faster confirmation speed (settlement) of 10 to 60 minutes on average.

Now, the only difference is that the intermediaries take on the risk with the traditional system -- and Bitcoin shifts back this responsibility on the peers of the transactions. Since there is no 3rd party to assume the risk, there are cases where waiting for confirmations is necessary. This is solve trivially by the use of Lightning for transactions that are worth up to several thousands of dollars. Lightning transactions are even faster than any traditional or modern financial system. Therefore, you have no point and stop spreading misinformation.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Now, the only difference is that the intermediaries take on the risk with the traditional system -- and Bitcoin shifts back this responsibility on the peers of the transactions.

I think what most people mean by saying that Bitcoin is slow, is that unconfirmed transactions are not reliable enough between two strangers, which is correct, whereas Visa & Mastercard unconfirmed transactions require more hassle to reverse. In Bitcoin, you just double-spend with higher transaction fee, and the transaction is replaced.

Bitcoin on-chain transactions are not optimized for point-of-sale, and that's OK. Bitcoin is not competing against Visa & Mastercard for seamless, instant transactions.

[OcTradism]

I think what most people mean by saying that Bitcoin is slow, is that unconfirmed transactions are not reliable enough between two strangers, which is correct, whereas Visa & Mastercard unconfirmed transactions require more hassle to reverse. In Bitcoin, you just double-spend with higher transaction fee, and the transaction is replaced.

Bitcoin on-chain transactions are not optimized for point-of-sale, and that's OK. Bitcoin is not competing against Visa & Mastercard for seamless, instant transactions.

This is disadvantage before a transaction is confirmed but nothing is perfect so is Bitcoin blockchain.

It otherwise has advantage of very strong security for a transaction after it gets a first confirmation. The more confirmations that transaction gets later will make it more secured. With Bitcoin transactions, having confirmations mean no reversibility and while in theory there is risk of 51% attacks, it has never happened with Bitcoin network and this blockchain.

So Bitcoin blockchain and on chain transactions are not too helpful at the point of sale especially when people in the trade don't have too spare time for waiting confirmation from miners, if they can wait for it, this blockchain is very good tool for having secure transactions.

[Satofan44]

Now, the only difference is that the intermediaries take on the risk with the traditional system -- and Bitcoin shifts back this responsibility on the peers of the transactions.

I think what most people mean by saying that Bitcoin is slow, is that unconfirmed transactions are not reliable enough between two strangers, which is correct, whereas Visa & Mastercard unconfirmed transactions require more hassle to reverse.

Bitcoin on-chain transactions are not optimized for point-of-sale, and that's OK. Bitcoin is not competing against Visa & Mastercard for seamless, instant transactions.

It is not as simple as it sounds though, and the reason why I strictly write against people like that is that they are oversimplifying and making it sounds like Bitcoin is more inferior than it really is. As I have explained in the part that you are quoted, they are completely different methods of transacting based on who takes the risk -- therefore naturally their features and characteristics must be different. We are talking about POS transactions, not complete strangers meeting at a random point under random conditions though. Many situations involving such transactions will have an identity attached (e.g. services, or purchases that require ID), and most others will have in-store CCTV as well so I doubt that people will be randomly stealing $100 this way more often that they would commit credit card fraud.

In Bitcoin, you just double-spend with higher transaction fee, and the transaction is replaced.

Which can be solved by making a system that automatically spends the coins as soon as they are received, creating a CPFP transaction and a competition for fees. As I said things are not as simple as they seem, just because something is possible that does not mean that you will succeed.

Actually, you'd be even wrong to state that it is harder to reverse Visa & Mastercard. It really depends, so the most correct way to state it is that sometimes it is harder to reverse them. I've had cases in the past where people just reported their transactions to their bank, without even providing proof that any kind of fraud took place, and the transaction was cancelled and the funds were reversed. There was no follow up of any kind to confirm whether the report was actually true or not. What happens behind the scenes between the banks and Visa or Mastercard is not the concern of either the person or the merchant. Anyway, we have long recognized the different risks and issues that come from zero confirmation transactions and speed so we have already solutions that are far superior to Visa and Mastercard:

• Low-value transactions: Use Lightning. Instant transactions.
• Medium-value transactions: Use Lightning if possible. Otherwise on chain and wait for a confirmation.
• High-value transactions: Use on-chain and wait for one or more confirmations.

The people that write about transaction speed as a disadvantage or having to wait for a confirmation in the listed cases are pure idiots. It is as if they have never even done a single high-value transaction in their lives. Do they really think that waiting 10-20 minutes is an issue? They think that what, usually you come inside a store and you tap a card for $50 000 payment and you exit in 2 minutes? In practical reality, the extra waiting time is absolutely irrelevant since the transaction itself takes plenty of time for other reasons (legal, logistical, customer service related or otherwise). Additionally, it can be initiated before the process is fully complete. For example, if you need to wait 20 minutes for the last step you can send the funds already to minimize the wait time -- and if you are lucky, waiting for confirmations would add 0 extra time.

[bitcoindusts]

Bitcoin on-chain transactions are not optimized for point-of-sale, and that's OK. Bitcoin is not competing against Visa & Mastercard for seamless, instant transactions.

You said it very well, Bitcoin goal is to remove third party institutions that milk users through fees.  The whitepaper does not say it will beat centralized payment system in terms of speed and confirmation.  But Bitcoin is making improvements by implementing lightning networks which address the problem with transaction and confirmation speed and scalability.

I think Renampun has a point.  Bitcoin is slow in handling many transactions.  In a fast pace world, having a slow transaction confirmation process is somehow unreliable in terms of speed.  Bitcoin is indeed very reliable in security but it does not mean that it can be very reliable in completing handling hundred thousand to million of transaction per minute.  We are not talking about the limit of transaction Bitcoin can carry but we are talking about the speed of the transaction being confirmed.  We all know that in financial world, seconds delay means millions losses.  As a currency it the speed of the transaction and its confirmation is really crucial.

False, you do not know how Bitcoin works and this user Renampun does not have a point. You guys literally do not even understand the basics of Bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions are as fast as possible in a decentralized environment, they take usually at most up to 5 seconds to be propagated to the other side. What else do you need in this "fast pace world"? You are confusing transaction speed with confirmation speed, one has nothing to do with the other. When you tap a Visa card on a terminal, it is almost instant but that is the transaction speed and it is usually reliable -- the actual settlement (confirmation) can take days, weeks, months even in certain cases and scenarios.

Did you even read the bolded part?  You are fast to point about failure of understanding Bitcoin but failed to comprehend what you are replying with.

[Rengga Jati]

What do you mean by not reliable enough? The network is as reliable as you can imagine. In fact there is no limit to the amount of transaction you can carry out at once, and the slow to confirm transactions is only going to be a problem if there is congestion. If not as long as you are transacting at the normal fee rate within 10 minutes you can get your payment go through 1 confirmation.

In this matter, I agree with you. Its network is quite reliable to handle any transaction. Yes there is no limit of the number of Bitcoin, we can transfer as many as we can (unless the number is too small). We also can do it at any time, there is no time limit for the transaction. However, we must admit that sometimes the transaction isn't as quick as we want due to the traffic. But this can be improved in the future. 

Bitcoin is slow in handling many transactions.  In a fast pace world, having a slow transaction confirmation process is somehow unreliable in terms of speed.

I think it is untrue. The slow transaction only happens when there is network density. In normal days, the transaction is quite fast and there is no any bad issue. So, I think the network speed is quite reliable.

[Smack That Ace]

Bitcoin is slow in handling many transactions.  In a fast pace world, having a slow transaction confirmation process is somehow unreliable in terms of speed.

I think it is untrue. The slow transaction only happens when there is network density. In normal days, the transaction is quite fast and there is no any bad issue. So, I think the network speed is quite reliable.

Bitcoin's transaction speed is normal and stable. However, compared to bank payment systems or altcoin, it is significantly slower. In reality, Bitcoin does not compete with them as an everyday payment method because users need a fast payment method with low transaction fees, or even free.

However, for cross border transaction, Bitcoin proves superior in terms of security and self sovereignty. We do not rely on intermediaries and avoid transaction control or freezing when using Bitcoin.

[Humman001]

We will probably see more of this when the price of Bitcoin becomes relatively stable. At that time, people may not see Bitcoin as a means of making profit or investing, but rather as a currency for making payments.

However, the reality is that while the price of Bitcoin is still fluctuating regularly, many merchants are accepting Bitcoin in exchange for their goods or services. Ultimately, it depends on the user's perspective - some may want to use Bitcoin as a means of payment, while others may want to see it as a long-term investment opportunity.

[ruykeri]

We will probably see more of this when the price of Bitcoin becomes relatively stable. At that time, people may not see Bitcoin as a means of making profit or investing, but rather as a currency for making payments.

However, the reality is that while the price of Bitcoin is still fluctuating regularly, many merchants are accepting Bitcoin in exchange for their goods or services. Ultimately, it depends on the user's perspective - some may want to use Bitcoin as a means of payment, while others may want to see it as a long-term investment opportunity.

The price of Bitcoin will never be stable. It will always be volatile. This is a feature of Bitcoin, which has been since the beginning  and it will be in future . And Bitcoin can be used in any way. Someone can transact with it if they want, or someone can invest in it and profit by taking advantage of its volatility. The point is that someone can transact with Bitcoin and run a business, while someone can use it as an investment source and hold it for long-term profit. For This freedom Bitcoin is so popular.

[Jostern]

Nothing will change if it doesn't become everyday money, as long as it can still be used for transactions or investments, that's the most important thing, I think.. because Bitcoin isn't really meant to be everyday money since its network isn't reliable enough to handle large daily transaction volumes quickly, but it can still be an alternative payment method that doesn't require fast settlement, such as cross-border transactions, that's very helpful. and it's also useful for providing financial freedom to its users.

Solid on the the alternative payment side and the investment part too.
Even if it does not become everyday money, it will still work well for moving funds when needed, especially across different borders. And on top of that, I see it more as a store of value for long term. something people would rather hold to preserve their money than spend regularly.

So yeah, it does not really have to be everyday cash to still be very important.

Bitcoin was never made to become everyday money, because I don’t really know how possible that is for bitcoin to become everyday money, bitcoin was actually made for different purposes and not for only online money transfers, or whatever peer to peer that the op is talking about, Bitcoin was made to make life easier in terms of online transactions, then things changes and then things have changed for people to be investing in bitcoin, however now that people are using bitcoin for investment that means majority of people would not only use bitcoin for transactions it will definitely be used for investments.

[Rabata]

Nothing will change if it doesn't become everyday money, as long as it can still be used for transactions or investments, that's the most important thing, I think.. because Bitcoin isn't really meant to be everyday money since its network isn't reliable enough to handle large daily transaction volumes quickly, but it can still be an alternative payment method that doesn't require fast settlement, such as cross-border transactions, that's very helpful. and it's also useful for providing financial freedom to its users.

Solid on the the alternative payment side and the investment part too.
Even if it does not become everyday money, it will still work well for moving funds when needed, especially across different borders. And on top of that, I see it more as a store of value for long term. something people would rather hold to preserve their money than spend regularly.

So yeah, it does not really have to be everyday cash to still be very important.

Bitcoin was never made to become everyday money, because I don’t really know how possible that is for bitcoin to become everyday money, bitcoin was actually made for different purposes and not for only online money transfers, or whatever peer to peer that the op is talking about, Bitcoin was made to make life easier in terms of online transactions, then things changes and then things have changed for people to be investing in bitcoin, however now that people are using bitcoin for investment that means majority of people would not only use bitcoin for transactions it will definitely be used for investments.

Bitcoin was originally created to reduce dependence on the conventional banking system and to control one's own wealth, but now it has become a reliable means of investment as well as credibility in financial transactions. Although there were initially many negative concerns about Bitcoin, over time people have learned to trust it. They have realized that Bitcoin is the only means to achieve financial freedom. Despite having no government or any central regulator, Bitcoin has now created a huge network worldwide. Bitcoin was not intended to take its place against fiat. But over time, the use of Bitcoin has increased greatly. People are now using Bitcoin for purchases in different places, even large transactions and getting the benefit of completing transactions smoothly from one country to another. As the adoption of Bitcoin increases in the future, the tendency to use it will also increase greatly.

[Cryptmuster]

I think that right now, Bitcoin can be viewed as an investment asset that has the potential to generate profit, as well as a way to preserve capital against inflation. Using Bitcoin as everyday money is difficult mainly because of its volatility, and I think that for daily transactions people will still prefer fiat currencies, which are less volatile even though they gradually lose value over time when simply held.

It’s also a much more familiar payment method for most people, one they’ve been using for a very long time and naturally accept as the standard. But even though we’re not using Bitcoin exactly the way it was originally intended, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, because financial instruments can evolve and adapt to real-world conditions. That’s why I believe Bitcoin still holds an important place in the financial system and will likely continue strengthening its position in the future thanks to its limited supply.

[Ayers]

I think that right now, Bitcoin can be viewed as an investment asset that has the potential to generate profit, as well as a way to preserve capital against inflation. Using Bitcoin as everyday money is difficult mainly because of its volatility, and I think that for daily transactions people will still prefer fiat currencies, which are less volatile even though they gradually lose value over time when simply held.

It’s also a much more familiar payment method for most people, one they’ve been using for a very long time and naturally accept as the standard. But even though we’re not using Bitcoin exactly the way it was originally intended, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, because financial instruments can evolve and adapt to real-world conditions. That’s why I believe Bitcoin still holds an important place in the financial system and will likely continue strengthening its position in the future thanks to its limited supply.

Besides volatility, the government is also a obstacle. They will not easily allow a currency not under their control to be used on a large scale. That would make it difficult for them to manage both the population and the economy.

I do not see anything wrong with us not using it for its original purpose. Because there are many thing beyond our control. Just because we want something does not mean the government and the market will allow and accept it. What we can do is adapt to all changes.