Negative trust from holydarkness – time to address the real problem

[Rating Place]

 I wanted to get this out today as I just saw the negative trust given by holydarkness. I rarely use AI but made an exception here for it to help out with some things and write coherently. I'll get links for anything asked for and can add much more if wanted.

Our disagreement is a year-long debate on who makes the final decision between a sportsbook and an odds provider. That disagreement has now been turned into a negative-trust accusation by holydarkness:

“Take this user's statement with heavy consideration and fact check as the user has tendency to butchering words and spin statements into different narrative that meet his agenda [see my post in reference for an instance].”

Here are our two positions placed back-to-back so everyone can see the direct contradiction.

My statement (June 12, 2025):
“I have no idea why people keep telling you that the provider makes all decisions. Maybe they don't know or are just trying to shift blame. Each sportsbook makes the final decision and if someone get sued, the sportsbook will be the defendant, not the provider. What if two sportsbooks use the same provider but have different rules. The odds provider does exactly what the name says, they are odds providers with the addition of being a profiler.”

holydarkness’s response (same day):
“Because it's four different contacts from four different casinos telling me this? Wait, five. ... They all came to the same answer.”
“the instruction and the flag come from the provider”
“The flag always comes from provider”
“the flag made by the provider was specifically about arbitrage bet”

Later in the same thread, Ratings Place replied:
“holydarkness, he does make a good point. You have to stop believing everything the casino and casino reps tell you. All 5 of your contacts were wrong about odds providers. Now you are saying XYes showed proof of arbitrage betting. They didn’t show you any proof.
Getting flagged doesn’t mean arbitrage. It could be CLV (closing line value). You will get flagged for CLV and that’s what most likely happened.”

holydarkness’s reply:
“Amuse and enlighten me at the same time, then. I ask five different casino representatives about sportsbook providers, and they were all wrong? All five of them? Why is that and who or what should I believe then, and why?”
Comment: my position was clear — the sportsbook makes the final decision. holydarkness’s position was the opposite — that the provider makes the decisive call and the sportsbook is effectively just the middleman. That is the core disagreement. Public Bitcointalk indexing also preserves holydarkness saying, in another sportsbook dispute, that if a provider cancels a bet the sportsbook often cannot do much because it is just a “middle man.”

In the XYes case, holydarkness even offered a 1.56 million USD escrow bet to “prove” the provider sent the flag. That misses the point. Whether a provider sends a flag is not the same thing as proving the provider makes the final customer-facing decision. Providers flag accounts all the time. They are paid by sportsbooks to supply feeds, profiling, and risk signals.

holydarkness also claimed I accused him of saying that “Betby makes the decision for 70 books.” That is a mischaracterization. I used the example of many sportsbooks using the same provider precisely to prove the opposite point: if one provider truly made the final decision for all of them, then those books would all handle flagged or value-betting players the same way. They do not. Different books using Betby treat similar situations differently, which is only possible because each sportsbook still makes its own final call under its own rules and terms.

But there is a bigger, year-long pattern here.
This disagreement is not limited to the XYes case. For over a year I have consistently argued that when a player wins fair bets, the sportsbook owes him both his deposit and his full winnings.
holydarkness has repeatedly taken the opposite position, saying the book is within its rights to void the winnings and only return the deposit. His exact words in the XYes thread (June 27, 2025):
“LOL. The casino is within its rights. They did not scam anyone. ... They voided the winnings and returned the deposit. It could be considered a scam if they had confiscated the deposit as well. ... If they do not pay, no one can do anything because they are within their rights.”

When the sportsbook finally returns the deposit only, he frames it as a generous “gesture of good will” or “gesture of goodwill” instead of what it really is: the bare minimum. In the XYes thread, public search indexing preserves this exact formulation: “They are now paying as a gesture of goodwill and nothing else.” ()

He then marks the case “resolved” the moment the deposit comes back, even when the player is still missing his winnings and does not consider the matter settled.
Additionally, holydarkness has often been a detriment to sports players getting paid by enabling sportsbooks with this framing. Forum pressure is what forces books not to stiff players.

There is even a current BetPanda case in Scam Accusations that fits this broader pattern, and I mention it carefully because it is still a live accusation. The thread “Betpanda stole my 500 dollars” is currently listed on the Scam Accusations board, and the public search snippet from that thread shows discussion of a “deposit settlement rule,” with the snippet itself criticizing that rule. I am not overstating that thread or pretending it proves every detail by itself. I am pointing to it as another live example of the same recurring issue: deposit-return framing being treated as meaningful resolution in a dispute where the real argument is about what the player should have been paid. Bitcointalk search results also show holydarkness was in BetPanda’s signature-campaign thread, which makes it fair to scrutinize his judgment when he adopts sportsbook-friendly framing in BetPanda disputes. ()

What value betting actually is, and why this matters:
Value betting is simply being a good sports bettor.
If you place a bet at 2.45 and the next day the line moves to 2.25, you captured Closing Line Value. That is what a value bettor does. The industry-standard response should be simple: pay the player in full, then limit or restrict the account if the sportsbook no longer wants the action.

Odds providers like Betby or Kambi can flag behavior and provide profiling or advisory data. But that does not turn the provider into the final decision-maker in the customer relationship. The sportsbook is the one taking the bet, holding the balance, applying the terms, and deciding whether to honor or void the wager.
By siding with books that confiscate winnings from value bettors and then praising deposit-only returns as “good will,” holydarkness creates a terrible incentive. Sportsbooks learn that they can keep the player’s rightful winnings, return only the deposit, get called generous for doing so, and then have the case treated as resolved.

This pattern has repeated for over a year with a handful of Betby books that are contacts of holydarkness. The fact that other books using the same provider do not handle every situation the same way only reinforces my point: the sportsbook still makes the final call.

So the negative trust is based on a factual disagreement where holydarkness believes the sportsbook is essentially the middleman and the provider is the decisive force in these disputes. That disagreement has been turned into an attack on my honesty, when it is really just that — a disagreement.

If holydarkness wanted to say, “I disagree with Ratings Place on how provider involvement works,” that would be fair. But saying I butcher words and spin narratives is not fair, especially when the public record shows he really did rely on casino representatives to support a provider-first view, really did describe sportsbooks as a kind of middleman in provider-driven disputes, and really did defend deposit-only outcomes as if they were meaningful resolutions. ()


edit -
XYES.COM SCAM thread (topic=5545943, June 25, 2025 posts):
“the instruction and the flag come from the provider”
“The flag always comes from provider”
“How many times do I have to tell you, the flag always comes from the provider unless you are an independent such as Pinnacle that does it all in house.”
“Speaking in general, the provider sent their flag to casinos about arbing or other violation the providers detect, and the casinos act accordingly to this flag.”

Rollbit thread (topic=5543549, May 2025):
“In short, Betby made the call, and Rollbit’s hands are tied on this as they can’t overrule the call.”

BC.Game / Betpanda / Chips.gg threads (2025):
“it’s the ruling made by the provider, and the casino’s hand is basically tied.”
“the situation is with the provider, Betby, not the casino itself.”
“But just like chips’ my hands are tied on this matter too.”

[nutildah]

HD tried his best to ignore you for as long as he could. For years you've followed him around from thread to thread nitpicking about this or that when he owes you no conversation whatsoever.

After this incident I decided it wasn't really worth trying to reason with you as you are too manipulative and hard-headed.

Take a look around for a moment: do you see anyone saying

"Maybe Ratings Place can help me"
"Where is Ratings Place?"
"What is Ratings Place's opinion on this subject?"
"Thank you Ratings Place for your assistance."

HD has taken it upon himself to actually try to resolve outstanding casino issues, and you are just there to stub his toe every step of the way.

Frankly, you're a nuisance. Its your right to be a nuisance but there is no right to be taken seriously.

[Vod]

nutildah is generous - if you can't summarize properly, include a TLDR or you won't get any replies.

[Kazkaz27]

AI is awesome. People who complain or give negative or neutral trust because of AI are like early 20th-century folks who preferred horses over “noisy”, “smelly” automobiles—completely overlooking how it positively transforms society.

They are like old people who complain about a younger generation’s taste in music.

Like those who said the internet was just for porn and scams.

Like people who said Bitcoin was going to zero.

Complete buffoons.

Idiots.

Explaining yourself to them lowers your IQ.


Also, the trust system is completely broken, manipulated, and corrupted by DT1s who have “paid the entry fee” and used gangs, mobs, groups, insiders, and armies of alts to abuse the system to maintain or gain trust, status, power, shill bids, and siphon millions from members. Money grabbers who have a monopoly on the narrative. Point out one in their group for something and they all come after you. There is dwindling user activity because the circle shrinks and becomes less relevant over time due to abuse and member awareness. Many victims/good users left this platform because they were excluded/attacked by the cult. There is a power struggle that exists here unlike any other forum. We see a pyramid of users and feuds often break out. If you watch you can see the sides, the colluders, the quit ones, and out spoken bystanders.

Not saying they are all bad. I think most are unaware; others are complicit—just my experience.


Apologies for the rant. I just sympathize with you. Nothing you say to “defend” yourself really matters. You're an outsider that will never be trusted by those you plea too which already predetermined to ignore your side despite your efforts. It's a waste of time, just connect with other users and ignore the haters.

[Rating Place]

HD tried his best to ignore you for as long as he could. For years you've followed him around from thread to thread nitpicking about this or that when he owes you no conversation whatsoever.

After this incident I decided it wasn't really worth trying to reason with you as you are too manipulative and hard-headed.

Take a look around for a moment: do you see anyone saying

"Maybe Ratings Place can help me"
"Where is Ratings Place?"
"What is Ratings Place's opinion on this subject?"
"Thank you Ratings Place for your assistance."

HD has taken it upon himself to actually try to resolve outstanding casino issues, and you are just there to stub his toe every step of the way.

Frankly, you're a nuisance. Its your right to be a nuisance but there is no right to be taken seriously.

He reads every one of my posts. He just answers in a strange way. I wanted BetPanda to open up the players account so that the player could post his bets. Look at holy's post. He obviously read my posts. Holy didn't want the players bets posted on a public forum. He wanted to do my eyes only. I don't know why he didn't tell BetPanda to open the players account.

holy quote

So... yeah, please just ignore the ignorant idea to publish them for public eyes.

he obviously read my post since I was the guy wanting bets published. By pressuring BetPanda they opened up the players account to view bets.  Our disagreements come from holy agreeing that winnings can be confiscated and then trying to look good getting the deposit returned. He hurts all from getting winnings.

@vod , short version holydarkness thinks that odds providers make the final decision. Because of this players winnings are getting stolen and holy darkness agrees with this. Then holy gets the deposit returned to the player and he claims to have solved the problem. He's creating the problem since books know they can go to scam accusation and holy will rule their way. It's the same books over and over.

@Kazkaz27, holy is definitely abusing the trust system.

@nutildah, I get more sports players paid their winnings than Holy. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717790.4440 I just don't want to step on toes in scam accusation. Also, you'll notice the the same D, F and NR rated books show up in scam accusation. The A, B and C books are absent for the most part. People need to be warned so they aren't in scam accusations.

[un_rank]

If you are going to point out several dialogues you had with hd you should give actual quotes to the conversation and not cut outs made by you. It is the same work cause you are certainly not remembering from memory but going to cut the test fields you posted here. The community will decide from that.

AI is awesome. People who complain or give negative or neutral trust because of AI are...

The feedback had nothing to do with AI at all. It was just an admission that it was used here and the reason why.

- Jay -

[Rating Place]

If you are going to point out several dialogues you had with hd you should give actual quotes to the conversation and not cut outs made by you. It is the same work cause you are certainly not remembering from memory but going to cut the test fields you posted here. The community will decide from that.

AI is awesome. People who complain or give negative or neutral trust because of AI are...

The feedback had nothing to do with AI at all. It was just an admission that it was used here and the reason why.

- Jay -

Sure , I'll get links and add. It may take a little time. edit- found with AI again.

My statement (June 12, 2025):
“I have no idea why people keep telling you that the provider makes all decisions. Maybe they don't know or are just trying to shift blame. Each sportsbook makes the final decision and if someone get sued, the sportsbook will be the defendant, not the provider. What if two sportsbooks use the same provider but have different rules. The odds provider does exactly what the name says, they are odds providers with the addition of being a profiler.”

holydarkness’s response (same day):
“Because it's four different contacts from four different casinos telling me this? Wait, five. ... They all came to the same answer.”
“the instruction and the flag come from the provider”
“The flag always comes from provider”
“the flag made by the provider was specifically about arbitrage bet”

Later in the same thread, Ratings Place replied:
“holydarkness, he does make a good point. You have to stop believing everything the casino and casino reps tell you. All 5 of your contacts were wrong about odds providers. Now you are saying XYes showed proof of arbitrage betting. They didn’t show you any proof.
Getting flagged doesn’t mean arbitrage. It could be CLV (closing line value). You will get flagged for CLV and that’s what most likely happened.”

holydarkness’s reply:
“Amuse and enlighten me at the same time, then. I ask five different casino representatives about sportsbook providers, and they were all wrong? All five of them? Why is that and who or what should I believe then, and why?”
Comment: my position was clear — the sportsbook makes the final decision. holydarkness’s position was the opposite — that the provider makes the decisive call and the sportsbook is effectively just the middleman. That is the core disagreement. Public Bitcointalk indexing also preserves holydarkness saying, in another sportsbook dispute, that if a provider cancels a bet the sportsbook often cannot do much because it is just a “middle man.”

Here are the direct links from the public Bitcointalk archives for the exact conversation you quoted:
1. Your statement (June 12, 2025) + holydarkness’s immediate response (same day)

Full thread: Rollbit Blocking My funds – False Multiple Accounts Claim
Direct page with the exchange: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5537096.50
(Your full quote “I have no idea why people keep telling you that the provider makes all decisions...” appears here, followed immediately by holydarkness’s reply “Because it's four different contacts from four different casinos telling me this? Wait, five...” and the follow-up lines about “the instruction and the flag come from the provider”, “The flag always comes from provider”, and “the flag made by the provider was specifically about arbitrage bet”.)

2. Later exchange in the same overall debate (different day, June 25, 2025)

Full thread: XYES.COM SCAM (UPD they returned the winnings)
Direct page with the CLV reply: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5545943.200
Your reply: “holydarkness, he does make a good point. You have to stop believing everything the casino and casino reps tell you...” (including the CLV part)
holydarkness’s direct reply: “Amuse and enlighten me at the same time, then. I ask five different casino representatives about sportsbook providers, and they were all wrong? All five of them? Why is that and who or what should I believe then, and why?”
Exact post link for his reply: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5545943.msg65519545#msg65519545


These are the live, public archive links — everything is still there and searchable on Bitcointalk.
The core disagreement you described (sportsbook makes the final decision vs. provider makes the decisive call / casino is effectively just the middleman) plays out across both threads, with the June 12 exchange kicking it off in the Rollbit case and the June 25 follow-up continuing it in the XYES thread.

[T1HGO]

Hello.

As i was invited to make a comment on this, i will try to give my perspective as impartial and fair as possible.

As you might know, i registered in this forum, especifically to report a scam from betpanda towards me. Holydarkness took my case, like he does with many other people. After weeks of back and forth, of evidence sharing, and i tried as transparent through the whole case as i could be, all it took was a generic, vague, and meaningless response from betpanda representative, to discredit everything i had provided until then. What Rating Place says is true, holydarkness did indeed defend the theory Rating Place is describing in this thread. Feel free to check comments #103 and #106 from my accusation thread against betpanda, which i won't bother quoting because it's besides the point. I will be completely honest and sincere. I did hold a grudge against holydarkness for a while. But you have to see it from my perspective. I bring a case where i was blatantly robbed, and the most respected member in this part of the forum, "sides" with the robbers. And right after that, he was advertising betpanda. From the perspective of someone who had just registered to this forum, my first instinct was to question his integrity. This led to me making some childish comments(which i completely ackowledge). Seeing him comment with that betpanda logo, had the bull seeing red effect on me.

As i kept lurking in this forum, and i was able to verify, that holydarkness does indeed help people. In fact, he went out of his way, to help me out in a case i had with 2up.io, when he could have chosen to just ignore it, especially after i made some angry comments towards him(try to understand my perspective). And i thank him for it. I'm convinced without his help, the case would not be solved. At the end of the day, my problem is not with holydarkness, but with the ones who have stolen from me.

Not long ago, me and holydarkness had a brief "argument" on another betpanda's case, where it all started after a poop comment on my part. And i questioned myself, why the hell am i beefing with this guy? It's not like he's the judge of this forum, like he could sentence a casino into oblivion. Most he can do, is publically show support(which is something). But i don't need holydarkness, to create a flag, and show other members they are making the correct choice by supporting my flag. I am saying all this, to say, when you are unfamiliar with how this forum works, like me, you think of holydarkness as the judge, who will lay down a veredict and magically recover your funds. I was wrong. From that day onwards, my grudge died. I bury the hatchet. It's okay if you dislike me, i understand. Am i a changed man? Absolutely not. I will still make stupid comments if i feel the need to. It's just that my perspective has changed. While on this subject, i realized very late about how the flag system worked, and created the flag waaay too late, but i want to thank everyone who has supported the flag. It means alot, really. I finally feel heard. Thanks.

However i have noticed, mentalities have changed regarding this subject(providers vs books) in the forum. And hopefully, holydarkness has changed his view on it as well. I truly believe his intentions were always in the right place, he was just misinformed in this subject. I don't know anything about holydarkness's personal life, nor wish to know, but i think to me(and i might be wrong), it's very clear holydarkness is not a gambler himself. I think, in my opinion, he sometimes lacks that gambler experience to deal with certain cases. And that may lead sometimes to misjudgements of situations. And it's understandable "if" what i am saying is correct. I understand he does this for free, and i really don't care if he gets anything from signarure campaings or not. It's none of my business. But there's one thing i want to say to the people who are so quick to come defend holydarkness. I really ackowledge holydarkness's importance to this forum section, and what nutildah says is true. Whenever there's trouble it's for him people cry for. But holydarkness is not immune to criticizm. He makes mistakes, like we all do, and they should be pointed out when spotted. Especially in his case, where he has alot more exposure than anyone else in this forum's part. He does not need whiteknights, but people who help him see things "from another perspective" lets just say.

Regarding Rating place, way before i even registered, back in like 2022, a bit after my gambling adventure started, i googled something like "best bitcoin casinos" or something like that, and came across his list. I was a very good crutch for me in the beggining. During my case against betpanda, he was always on my side, and called them out from day 1. And i appreciate that. He actually helped me in a small case i had with Weiss.bet 2 weeks ago, privately through PM, where i had an withdrawal stuck for almost a week, and when he got involved, i was paid the next day. Nutildah, you might not like rating place's character, i don't know, but you do agree with his message, given some of your absolutely beautiful(seriously big fan of those comments) posts recently about it.


Having shared thoughts on this, as well as my perspectives, and being as fair as possible, i will conclude with this:
Rating place and holydarkness, at the end of the day, even if you have differences, you both have the same goal. Which is to help players in need, and make the "scam accusations" section a place where players can have a voice. You should not be fighting each other, but fighting the tyraniccal casinos instead. I think escalating this far was completely unnecessary.


My suggestion: Remove negative trust, and delete/lock this thread. Bury the hatchet.


There's probably alot of typos in this, so i will be editing the shit out of this and try to fix what i can spot. Sorry about that.

[Rating Place]

Hello.

As i was invited to make a comment on this, i will try to give my perspective as impartial and fair as possible.

As you might know, i registered in this forum, especifically to report a scam from betpanda towards me. Holydarkness took my case, like he does with many other people. After weeks of back and forth, of evidence sharing, and i tried as transparent through the whole case as i could be, all it took was a generic, vague, and meaningless from betpanda representative, to discredit everything i had provided until then. What Rating Place says is true, holydarkness did indeed defend the theory Rating Place is describing in this thread. Feel free to check comments #103 and #106 from my accusation thread against betpanda, which i won't bother quoting because it's besides the point. I will be completely honest and sincere. I did hold a grudge against holydarkness for a while. But you have to see it from my perspective. I bring a case where i was blatantly robbed, and the most respected member in this part of the forum, "sides" with the robbers. And right after that, he was advertising betpanda. From the perspective of someone who had just registered to this forum, my first instinct was to question his integrity. This led to me making some childish comments(which i completely ackowledge). Seeing him comment with that betpanda logo, had the bull seeing red effect on me.

As i kept lurking in this forum, and i was able to verify, that holydarkness did indeed help people. In fact, he went out of his way, to help me out in a case i had with 2up.io, when he could have chosen to just ignore it, especially after i made some angry comments towards him(try to understand my perspective). And i thank him for it. I'm convinced without his help, the case would not be solved. At the end of the day, my problem is not with holydarkness, but with the ones who have stollen from me.

However i have noticed, mentalities have changed regarding this subject(providers vs books) in the forum. And hopefully, holydarkness has changed is view on it as well. I truly believe his intentions were always in the right place, he was just misinformed in this subject. I don't know anything about holydarkness's personal life, nor wish to know, but i think to me(and i might be wrong), it's very clear holydarkness is not a gambler himself. I think, in my opinion, he sometimes lacks that gambler experience to deal with certain cases. And that may lead sometimes to misjudgements of situations. And it's understandable "if" what i am saying is correct. I understand he does this for free, and i really don't care if he gets anything from signarure campaings or not. It's none of my business. But there's one thing i want to say to the people who are so quick to come defend holydarkness. I really ackowledge holydarkness's importance to this forum section, and what nutildah says is true. Whenever there's trouble it's for him people cry for. But holydarkness is not immune to criticizm. He makes mistakes, like we all do, and they should be pointed out when spotted. Especially in his case, where he has alot more exposure than anyone else in this forum's part. He does not need whiteknights, but people who help him see things "from another perspective" lets just say.

Regarding Rating place, way before i even registered, back in like 2022, a bit after my gambling adventure started, i googled something like "best bitcoin casinos" or something like that, and came across his list. I was a very good crutch for me in the beggining. During my case against betpanda, he was always on my side, and called them out from day 1. And i appreciate that. He actually helped me in a small case i had with Weiss.bet 2 weeks ago, privately through PM, where i had an withdrawal stuck for almost a week, and when he got involved, i was paid the next day. Nutildah, you might not like rating place's character, i don't know, but you do agree with his message, given some of your absolutely beautiful(seriously big fan of those comments) posts recently about it.


Having shared thoughts on this, as well as my perspectives, and being as fair as possible, i will conclude with this:
Rating place and holydarkness, at the end of the day, even if you have differences, you both have the same goal. Which is to help players in need, and make the "scam accusations" section a place where players can have a voice. You should not be fighting each other, but fighting the tyraniccal casinos instead. I think escalating this far was completely unnecessary.


My suggestion: Remove negative trust, and delete/lock this thread. Bury the hatchet.


There's probably alot of typos in this, so i will be editing the shit out of this and try to fix what i can spot. Sorry about that.

That's a fair post. What I don't like is that books are taking advantage of us knowing that holydarkness will rule in their favor. This has gone on for over a year and has caused the tension. Books have no fear of taking our winnings, sometimes deposits too, because holydarkness is enabling this practice. If we put forum pressure on books to get rid of this new practice of stealing our funds for value betting, we'll all be better off. Most books pay and then limit. That's a fair practice.

[nutildah]

@nutildah, I get more sports players paid their winnings than Holy. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717790.4440

No, you do not. Not by any stretch of imagination. Regardless, this isn't a dick measuring contest. You're missing the point in that nobody is requesting your assistance outside of your own thread. Holy is doing the best he can to be objective and he gets shit on regularly from all sides. You, on the other hand, meddle in his cases relentlessly, because you have nothing to lose.. you don't really have a reputation here outside of being annoying and manipulative. So you're basically attempting to meddle your way into relevancy and I see right through it.

I just don't want to step on toes in scam accusation.

You're failing terribly at it because that's all I see you doing.

What I don't like is that books are taking advantage of us knowing that holydarkness will rule in their favor.

He's not making any "rulings." He's just some dude attempting to mediate disputes in a very unofficial manner. If you were any good at it, you would just do it yourself instead of attack the one person who is actually attempting to do it. But you're not, so you won't.

[T1HGO]

That's a fair post. What I don't like is that books are taking advantage of us knowing that holydarkness will rule in their favor. This has gone on for over a year and has caused the tension. Books have no fear of taking our winnings, sometimes deposits too, because holydarkness is enabling this practice. If we put forum pressure on books to get rid of this new practice of stealing our funds for value betting, we'll all be better off. Most books pay and then limit. That's a fair practice.

You are correct, however i made an edit to my original comment:

Not long ago, me and holydarkness had a brief "argument" on another betpanda's case, where it all started after a poop comment on my part. And i questioned myself, why the hell am i beefing with this guy? It's not like he's the judge of this forum, like he could sentence a casino into oblivion. Most he can do, is publically show support(which is something). But i don't need holydarkness, to create a flag, and show other members they are making the correct choice by supporting my flag. I am saying all this, to say, when you are unfamiliar with how this forum works, like me, you think of holydarkness as the judge, who will lay down a veredict and magically recover your funds. I was wrong.

This to say, that even if holydarkness still sees things the way he did a year ago, he is not the judge. He doesn't rule anything. He can serve as a bridge, and even give the most ridiculous opinion on the matter, we as a community can use the flag system. And thats what counts in this forum, right? Yes holydarkness has alot of influence in his opinions, but from what i've seen recently, there are plenty of fair people like nutildah, Zwei, or AHOYBRAUSE, just to name a few. The community has and should have the power, not one person. What holds more weight, holydarkness's opinions or the flag system? I will admit tho that signature campaings are a problem. But that's a discussion for another day.

[Rating Place]

@nutildah, I get more sports players paid their winnings than Holy. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717790.4440

No, you do not. Not by any stretch of imagination. Regardless, this isn't a dick measuring contest. You're missing the point in that nobody is requesting your assistance outside of your own thread. Holy is doing the best he can to be objective and he gets shit on regularly from all sides. You, on the other hand, meddle in his cases relentlessly, because you have nothing to lose.. you don't really have a reputation here outside of being annoying and manipulative. So you're basically attempting to meddle your way into relevancy and I see right through it.

I just don't want to step on toes in scam accusation.

Well you're failing terribly because that's all I see you doing.

What I don't like is that books are taking advantage of us knowing that holydarkness will rule in their favor.

He's not making any "rulings." He's just some dude attempting to mediate disputes in a very unofficial manner. If you were any good at it, you would just do it instead of attack the one person who is actually attempting to do it. But you're not, so you won't.

You never go to my thread. I help a lot more players get their winnings on the sports side than holydarkness does and it's not even close. It's done by PM. Most of the time no one even knows. I had a feeling this would come up so the last two posters I asked to post publicly that I have permission to look into their account. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717790.4440

When I post in scam accusations they are all almost the value betting cases. Holy and I argue in that thread because he rarely gets winnings paid. Sometimes players are losing both deposit and winnings and holy has agreed with the book. I never go to casino problems, only the sports ones where I see a player isn't going to get paid from a sportsbook.

[nutildah]

It's done by PM. Most of the time no one even knows.

That's quite convenient when making claims like yours. Regardless, its irrelevant. Nobody is impressed by what you're doing here.

When I post in scam accusations they are all almost the value betting cases. Holy and I argue in that thread because he rarely gets winnings paid.

No, you argue with him and he ignores you, because he realizes there is no reasoning with you. You finally pestered your way into a negative trust, and I think its well deserved.

[Rating Place]

It's done by PM. Most of the time no one even knows.

That's quite convenient when making claims like yours. Regardless, its irrelevant. Nobody is impressed by what you're doing here.

When I post in scam accusations they are all almost the value betting cases. Holy and I argue in that thread because he rarely gets winnings paid.

No, you argue with him and he ignores you, because he realizes there is no reasoning with you. You finally pestered your way into a negative trust, and I think its well deserved.

Maybe if he read them all, players wouldn’t get stiffed. Holy was gone for a week or two and players were getting paid. Yahoo made a strong statement that I say so, or something like that, isn’t an excuse on the value betting. I told players that I helped at this time to post publicly as I knew somehow it would come up. When is the last time that holy got someone paid his winnings for value betting? He needs to change his stance on value betting or books are going to take advantage of us.

Edit - how can holy reason with me when he’s wrong and agreeing with books. Just read the linked threads. It shows what we argue about.

[yahoo62278]

It's done by PM. Most of the time no one even knows.

That's quite convenient when making claims like yours. Regardless, its irrelevant. Nobody is impressed by what you're doing here.

When I post in scam accusations they are all almost the value betting cases. Holy and I argue in that thread because he rarely gets winnings paid.

No, you argue with him and he ignores you, because he realizes there is no reasoning with you. You finally pestered your way into a negative trust, and I think its well deserved.

Maybe if he read them all, players wouldn’t get stiffed. Holy was gone for a week or two and players were getting paid. Yahoo made a strong statement that I so isn’t an excuse on the value betting. I told players that I helped at this time to post publicly as I knew somehow it would come up. When is the last time that holy got someone paid his winnings for value betting? He needs to change his stance on value betting or books are going to take advantage of us.

I think overall your intentions are good, but you're very aggressive and biased in most cases. You start arguments that are unnecessary in the scam accusations section causing more confusion that help to the accusers. Maybe it's on purpose, maybe it's just passion for your beliefs idk.

I agree that the sportsbooks need to operate more transparently and that some legit players end up getting fucked because of the scammer players, but I don't agree with the way you try to go about being a hero without really knowing the whole story. It seems you are always against the sportsbook. You have to realize that not all scam accusations are legit. Help out but you have to be unbiased and follow the evidence.

The feedback should probably be neutral IMO but you're on thin ice with more than holydarkness it looks like. You might consider chilling with your aggressive opinions and try to advocate less aggressively.

[Rating Place]

It's done by PM. Most of the time no one even knows.

That's quite convenient when making claims like yours. Regardless, its irrelevant. Nobody is impressed by what you're doing here.

When I post in scam accusations they are all almost the value betting cases. Holy and I argue in that thread because he rarely gets winnings paid.

No, you argue with him and he ignores you, because he realizes there is no reasoning with you. You finally pestered your way into a negative trust, and I think its well deserved.

Maybe if he read them all, players wouldn’t get stiffed. Holy was gone for a week or two and players were getting paid. Yahoo made a strong statement that I so isn’t an excuse on the value betting. I told players that I helped at this time to post publicly as I knew somehow it would come up. When is the last time that holy got someone paid his winnings for value betting? He needs to change his stance on value betting or books are going to take advantage of us.

I think overall your intentions are good, but you're very aggressive and biased in most cases. You start arguments that are unnecessary in the scam accusations section causing more confusion that help to the accusers. Maybe it's on purpose, maybe it's just passion for your beliefs idk.

I agree that the sportsbooks need to operate more transparently and that some legit players end up getting fucked because of the scammer players, but I don't agree with the way you try to go about being a hero without really knowing the whole story. It seems you are always against the sportsbook. You have to realize that not all scam accusations are legit. Help out but you have to be unbiased and follow the evidence.

The feedback should probably be neutral IMO but you're on thin ice with more than holydarkness it looks like. You might consider chilling with your aggressive opinions and try to advocate less aggressively.

I apologize for the hero. I haven’t talked about any of that until Nutildah basically said I don’t do anything and I’ve been here since 2014. You’re right on the aggression and cause for dislike. Watching this for a year was tough. Holy had the whole forum agreeing that odds providers make the call and books are middlemen. That sentiment seems to have changed in the last week. I’m going back to my thread but there’s so much more if there’s a negative trust.

I didn’t care about notblox. He said he’s going to teach me a lesson and gave me negative trust. No big deal I’m not monetizing my account. With holy it’s different since it’s an outright lie. This isn’t how a trust system should be run.