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Author Topic: The Official Mastercoin Foundation, Master Protocol & Mastercoin Thread  (Read 164809 times)
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April 13, 2014, 06:59:08 PM
 #61

Nice re-framing of the argument, trying to pass it off as "censorship" when it is really you exploiting a resource because you have the ability, not the actual right to do so.

Could you please elaborate on what this statement is based?

I think your premise is flawed and using the phrasings "exploiting" and "no right to" is blatantly rude in my opinion. This is similar to "I don't like TraderTimm spending some coins and therefore I claim it's abuse of the blockchain and he has no right to do so".

(snipped)

I don't expect anything I say to change MSC's course. The development of MSC has reached a point where refactoring is viewed as untenable, to say the least. I'm just standing on the beach, as the hurricane of ill-conceived intentions blusters ashore, hoping that this forum server and google-indexed searches will show the markers of where things went wrong at the beginning. A lighthouse perched on the edge of the cliffs of greed, warning those that contemplate taking the same course.

My statement about exploitation is based on this:

MSC is equivalent to someone discovering that a particular email client can be used to forward unsolicited email from a user's ISP to anyone else, using a specially crafted email. Sure, they could filter out your "trigger" messages that allow them to do so, but you are the one exploiting them and tasking them with the burden of correcting your abuse.

The rest is just semantics. The ethics behind deciding to throw this load on to the backs of the miners is the problem. I don't give a toss if they can filter it out - THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE FORCED TO CORRECT YOUR DESIGN ASSUMPTIONS OF A SHARED RESOURCE.

This, simply, is wrong.

Bitcoin was never indeed to be just money. Perhaps it has evolved into that at this point, but I certainly didn't get into it because it was going to be only money and a lot of other people didn't get into it for that reason either. It's not the magical future we expect it to be if it's only money, it's the future when it can be so many different things. Including the medium by which other things like mastercoin work. If people think we are getting a free ride, then the Bitcoin devs should come up with smarter transaction fees. Just bill us for exactly what the effort is worth.

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April 14, 2014, 07:58:52 AM
 #62

The rest is just semantics. The ethics behind deciding to throw this load on to the backs of the miners is the problem. I don't give a toss if they can filter it out - THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE FORCED TO CORRECT YOUR DESIGN ASSUMPTIONS OF A SHARED RESOURCE.

This, simply, is wrong.
However, your use of bitcoin and the blockchain to continue to buy gay child porn annoys me.  Your sick uses of the blockchain, a shared resource with limited capacity is displacing good fair reasonable use.  Your child porn purchases are bulking up and bloating the blockchain.  This, simply, is wrong.  Please stop now.

Everyone uses the blockchain as they like for those purposes they deem important.  You act as if the burden on the blockchain is severe.  As if a single MSC transaction puts ten thousand transactions into the chain.  This is stupid.  Your displeasure for novel uses of the blockchain is misplaced.  

You don't like MSC transactions - and they don't like your child pornography transactions.  We must all live together. Now stop abusing children and get back to work.  


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April 14, 2014, 09:07:21 AM
 #63

Side note: no confirm email ever comes through for mastercointalk signups. Not sure who to mention that too.  :-)

i think this has something to do with spam white listing; can you check your spam folder?

i will check with Adam about that again, we are aware of that.
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April 14, 2014, 09:57:30 AM
 #64

Side note: no confirm email ever comes through for mastercointalk signups. Not sure who to mention that too.  :-)

i think this has something to do with spam white listing; can you check your spam folder?

i will check with Adam about that again, we are aware of that.

Nothing in the spam folder, and I've got reasonably good control over my gmail account. I have also tried with more then one email, and nothing comes through on any of them. ?

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April 14, 2014, 10:24:39 AM
 #65

On a separate topic, I'm developing a new type of cold storage token and I would very much like to somehow integrate it with Mastercoin.

Bitcointalk Link
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566626.msg6173252#msg6173252

It is essentially a NFC chip inside a secure, non-clonable/counterfietable enclosure that must be destroyed to access the bitcoin (or mastercoin) stored within.

I've set up a C Corporation in Delaware for the company (although perhaps might change it to LLC) and am still considering selling shares via Mastercoin, but for the moment I would be interested in hearing ideas about how the actual device could work with Mastercoin. One feature I'm exploring at the moment is allowing Andreas Bitcoin Wallet for android to save priv-key backups into the device itself as an example. Any other ideas how mastercoin might be possible to integrate with this device?


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April 14, 2014, 11:33:19 AM
 #66

On a separate topic, I'm developing a new type of cold storage token and I would very much like to somehow integrate it with Mastercoin.

Bitcointalk Link
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566626.msg6173252#msg6173252

It is essentially a NFC chip inside a secure, non-clonable/counterfietable enclosure that must be destroyed to access the bitcoin (or mastercoin) stored within.

I've set up a C Corporation in Delaware for the company (although perhaps might change it to LLC) and am still considering selling shares via Mastercoin, but for the moment I would be interested in hearing ideas about how the actual device could work with Mastercoin. One feature I'm exploring at the moment is allowing Andreas Bitcoin Wallet for android to save priv-key backups into the device itself as an example. Any other ideas how mastercoin might be possible to integrate with this device?



This thing looks nice. Is this is (real) prototype picture?

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April 14, 2014, 01:08:06 PM
 #67

On a separate topic, I'm developing a new type of cold storage token and I would very much like to somehow integrate it with Mastercoin.

Bitcointalk Link
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566626.msg6173252#msg6173252

It is essentially a NFC chip inside a secure, non-clonable/counterfietable enclosure that must be destroyed to access the bitcoin (or mastercoin) stored within.

I've set up a C Corporation in Delaware for the company (although perhaps might change it to LLC) and am still considering selling shares via Mastercoin, but for the moment I would be interested in hearing ideas about how the actual device could work with Mastercoin. One feature I'm exploring at the moment is allowing Andreas Bitcoin Wallet for android to save priv-key backups into the device itself as an example. Any other ideas how mastercoin might be possible to integrate with this device?



This thing looks nice. Is this is (real) prototype picture?

Yes, this is real. It's the 3rd generation prototype I've made. Going back to the factories in the next few weeks to make the 4th generation, and hopefully final for this design. Here's a picture of the machine that the special inner coating is plasma deposited with.



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April 14, 2014, 07:40:22 PM
 #68

Bitcoin was never indeed to be just money. Perhaps it has evolved into that at this point, but I certainly didn't get into it because it was going to be only money and a lot of other people didn't get into it for that reason either. It's not the magical future we expect it to be if it's only money, it's the future when it can be so many different things. Including the medium by which other things like mastercoin work. If people think we are getting a free ride, then the Bitcoin devs should come up with smarter transaction fees. Just bill us for exactly what the effort is worth.

The problem will be rectified, it just won't be in a manner that the MSC devs will like. But, since they didn't ask anyone if they wanted to bear the burden of their system, it is equally fair that nobody asks them if they mind being excised like the cancer they are.

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April 14, 2014, 07:44:20 PM
 #69


You don't like MSC transactions - and they don't like your < libelous statement > transactions.  We must all live together. Now stop < libelous allegation > and get back to work.  

Why stop there, you could've just invoked Godwin's Law and went full comparison to certain horrible atrocities of the 20th century.

Your over-the-top comparison doesn't change the fact that nobody was asked, the permission was assumed, and it forms the central ethical quandry of the entire MSC undertaking.

How far this forum has fallen, indeed.

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April 14, 2014, 08:54:09 PM
 #70

Bitcoin was never indeed to be just money. Perhaps it has evolved into that at this point, but I certainly didn't get into it because it was going to be only money and a lot of other people didn't get into it for that reason either. It's not the magical future we expect it to be if it's only money, it's the future when it can be so many different things. Including the medium by which other things like mastercoin work. If people think we are getting a free ride, then the Bitcoin devs should come up with smarter transaction fees. Just bill us for exactly what the effort is worth.

The problem will be rectified, it just won't be in a manner that the MSC devs will like. But, since they didn't ask anyone if they wanted to bear the burden of their system, it is equally fair that nobody asks them if they mind being excised like the cancer they are.

Exactly who would they ask? Gavin himself? Some centralised authority? This is one of the reasons it's decentralized, because who can envision all the possibly uses for the blockchain all at once? Also, I don't see why it's a problem. Simply make Mastercoin, or any other side project, pay for their transactions. The miners are in it for the money, I don't see why this isn't clearly an opportunity for miner profit. The more transactions, the more fees, the more miners make. How can that be a bad thing exactly? 

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April 15, 2014, 01:06:33 PM
 #71

Please RawDog, I think you're also exaggerating. Unless this discussion gets on a level worth of a discussion I'd appreciate, if you both step a step back and I think the point was made pretty clear earlier. Smiley

What's everyone's opinion about MaidSafe and SafeCoin? It was all over the news a few days ago.

http://www.safecoin.io/
https://github.com/maidsafe/Whitepapers/blob/master/Project-Safe.md

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April 15, 2014, 01:59:32 PM
 #72

Please RawDog, I think you're also exaggerating. Unless this discussion gets on a level worth of a discussion I'd appreciate, if you both step a step back and I think the point was made pretty clear earlier. Smiley

What's everyone's opinion about MaidSafe and SafeCoin? It was all over the news a few days ago.

http://www.safecoin.io/
https://github.com/maidsafe/Whitepapers/blob/master/Project-Safe.md
This is an excellent topic for a new thread.  Why spoil a good troll argument with decent topics of genuine interest?  

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April 15, 2014, 04:37:03 PM
 #73

Side note: no confirm email ever comes through for mastercointalk signups. Not sure who to mention that too.  :-)

I can confirm the nonconfirmation... Sad ... tried resend to no avail.

It's good to have a thread on bitcointalk though. I think the mastercoin community is still too small to allow for complete segregation.


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April 15, 2014, 06:22:15 PM
 #74

A quantity of 429,496,729 coins will be available for purchase, this equates to 10% of all safecoins
When JR did the MasterProtocol 100% of coins were available for purchase.  Even JR bought (with real money: bitcoin) every single share allocated to him.  Now, MaidSafe wants to take 90% of the coins - and decide later how they will distribute those.  What?!  

I was a big proponent with money set aside to do this project.  Now, I am not going to spend one red cent.  

What is this? is it Ripple?  How in the world do you anticipate your project being worth $80 million today?  That is more than 4 times the present value of Mastercoin which has money in the bank and some nice working funcitons.  All you guys have is 'seven years work' (which indicates you are very slow to build anything) and a fancy video.  

I am out.  I recommend to others to consider this outrageous valuation before throwing money into RipOffSafe. 

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April 15, 2014, 09:07:53 PM
 #75

A quantity of 429,496,729 coins will be available for purchase, this equates to 10% of all safecoins
When JR did the MasterProtocol 100% of coins were available for purchase.  Even JR bought (with real money: bitcoin) every single share allocated to him.  Now, MaidSafe wants to take 90% of the coins - and decide later how they will distribute those.  What?! 

I was a big proponent with money set aside to do this project.  Now, I am not going to spend one red cent. 

What is this? is it Ripple?  How in the world do you anticipate your project being worth $80 million today?  That is more than 4 times the present value of Mastercoin which has money in the bank and some nice working funcitons.  All you guys have is 'seven years work' (which indicates you are very slow to build anything) and a fancy video. 

I am out.  I recommend to others to consider this outrageous valuation before throwing money into RipOffSafe. 


Yeah but Maidsafe if I understand correctly is built on mastercoin? Or traded on mastercoin? (Huh) either way, will make mastercoin more popular, and as an owner of some few mastercoins, I support it. :-)

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April 15, 2014, 10:17:02 PM
 #76

Mastercoin is currently a finalist amongst six coins under consideration for inclusion (to replace Auroracoin) in the ALTDEX - Altcoin Total Market Index.  If you'd like to see Mastercoin become the newest component of the ALTDEX index, go vote on the poll here!

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April 16, 2014, 04:15:13 AM
 #77

Got a thread back, nice one
Whats is the reationship between master coin to safe coin?

apart from the fact you can buy safe coins with mastgercoins
what links the two together, does safe coin exist on top of the master protocol?, as i thought that wasn;t the case due to teh way its meant to be used,


Below is an excerpt from https://github.com/maidsafe/Whitepapers/blob/master/Project-Safe.md

7. SAFE Crowd Sale

The crowd sale will be operated as follows:

A fixed number of MaidSafeCoin will be issued during the crowd sale

The sale will last until all coins have been purchased (circa $8million) or 30 days has passed, whatever happens first

Within that period, public funds in the form of bitcoin and mastercoin can be sent to exodus bitcoin address via www.BuySafeCoins.com

Each participant will purchase an intermediary coin, MaidSafeCoin

A quantity of 429,496,729 coins will be available for purchase, this equates to 10% of all safecoins

Early buyer incentives are in place to reward early participation (see chart below)

It is estimated that participants will purchase 17,000 MaidSafeCoins for 1 bitcoin

All purchases and transctions will be recorded on the Bitcoin block chain via the Mastercoin protocol

The deposit of funds in the exodus address will auto generate the appropriate level of MaidSafeCoins, they will be reciepted in the participants mastercoin wallet

Once the full network is launched these will be traded on a 1:1 basis for safecoin

Each participants safecoin wallet will be credited as the full network is launched and they create their SAFE network accounts

In the event that not all coins are sold, the remaining coins will be burned

All details are available at www.safecoin.io

</excerpt>

How could the MaidSafeCoin be recorded via the Mastercoin protocol?  There is no 'user currency' feature yet.
Instead they are using a Mastercoin-style fundraiser.  They are going to announce their 'exodus address' on 22-April.
There will apparently be a separate 'exodus address' if you wish to send Mastercoin instead of bitcoin.



I need some clarification from the Mastercoin Foundation on how the MaidSafeCoin crowd-funding will work on April 22nd.  I want to use bitcoin to buy MaidSafeCoins.  The wording on safecoin.io seems to be saying something different than on buysafecoins.com.

On safecoin.io it states:  "Bitcoin purchases will occur using the buysafecoins.com website, and backers will provide the Bitcoin address where they would like to receive their MaidSafeCoins."

But on buysafecoins.com it states:  "Simply send bitcoins to the following address and we will send Safecoins back to your bitcoin address.
Attention please use a bitcoin wallet such as Blockchain.info with which you control the private key to your public address."

Does this mean that I provide a public bitcoin address on buysafecoins.com when I send the bitcoins?  There is no link or a form to do so.

Or does it mean I just send the bitcoin to the provided address on April 22nd and mastercoin will automatically convert the bitcoins to MaidSafeCoins.  And then all I have to do is use the mastercoin client (i.e. masterchest) with my bitcoin wallet.dat file to see my MaidSafeCoins because my wallet.dat file has my private keys?

Thanks in advance!


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April 16, 2014, 04:47:14 AM
Last edit: April 16, 2014, 05:22:22 AM by niner
 #78


Or does it mean I just send the bitcoin to the provided address on April 22nd and mastercoin will automatically convert the bitcoins to MaidSafeCoins.  And then all I have to do is use the mastercoin client (i.e. masterchest) with my bitcoin wallet.dat file to see my MaidSafeCoins because my wallet.dat file has my private keys?

Thanks in advance!

My incorrect assumption is quoted in the previous post but JR has already cleared this up.

Actually, MaidSafe is coinciding their fundraiser with the release of the first version of our user currency feature, and their coins will be entirely purchased and traded exclusively within the Master Protocol. The bitcoin address is run by a trusted third party who will will receive bitcoins and then send Mastercoins to the fundraiser and then send the resulting SafeCoins back to the purchaser, making the process a little more streamlined for some people who don't already own MSC.

So the SafeCoins (or MaidSafeCoins) will arrive back at the address from which you sent the bitcoin.
You will then be able to see your balance with any of the Mastercoin wallets. This assumes the wallet handles currency ID other than Mastercoin.

edit: clarity/grammar

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April 16, 2014, 08:30:50 AM
 #79

A quantity of 429,496,729 coins will be available for purchase, this equates to 10% of all safecoins
When JR did the MasterProtocol 100% of coins were available for purchase.  Even JR bought (with real money: bitcoin) every single share allocated to him.  Now, MaidSafe wants to take 90% of the coins - and decide later how they will distribute those.  What?!  

I was a big proponent with money set aside to do this project.  Now, I am not going to spend one red cent.  

What is this? is it Ripple?  How in the world do you anticipate your project being worth $80 million today?  That is more than 4 times the present value of Mastercoin which has money in the bank and some nice working funcitons.  All you guys have is 'seven years work' (which indicates you are very slow to build anything) and a fancy video.  

I am out.  I recommend to others to consider this outrageous valuation before throwing money into RipOffSafe. 


Read the paper godammit. The coins will be mined by the people who provide server space.
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April 16, 2014, 09:41:07 AM
 #80

A quantity of 429,496,729 coins will be available for purchase, this equates to 10% of all safecoins
When JR did the MasterProtocol 100% of coins were available for purchase.  Even JR bought (with real money: bitcoin) every single share allocated to him.  Now, MaidSafe wants to take 90% of the coins - and decide later how they will distribute those.  What?! 

I was a big proponent with money set aside to do this project.  Now, I am not going to spend one red cent. 

What is this? is it Ripple?  How in the world do you anticipate your project being worth $80 million today?  That is more than 4 times the present value of Mastercoin which has money in the bank and some nice working funcitons.  All you guys have is 'seven years work' (which indicates you are very slow to build anything) and a fancy video. 

I am out.  I recommend to others to consider this outrageous valuation before throwing money into RipOffSafe. 


Read the paper godammit. The coins will be mined by the people who provide server space.

Read the paper? Whoa, whoa, you're expecting a bit much from the people who have opinions about it.

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