Canada proposes ban on crypto ATMs as fraud cases mount

[Mrbluntzy]

In my country, we don't have Bitcoin ATM but yet fraud cases has not reduce, same in some country that doesn't even have Bitcoin ATM yet fraud issues have not reduce and even while the government are also trying in their capabilities to fight frauds, they did not ban Bitcoin in their country, so I wonder why some country always like to tag Bitcoin as the major cause of frauds and they make it look as if omce they ban Bitcoin, the problem is half solved when it's even the beginning of the problem. Before such proposal, they should look if things has gone better in those country that band Bitcoin thinking it is the cause of their problem.

[uchegod-21]

The last we heard of is Tennessee, a state in the United States that banned bitcoin and crypto ATMs. I think Canada is watching closely and now proposing to ban bitcoin and crypto ATMs.

Canada also stated the same reason which is scam, that crypto ATMs are tools for scammers.

They can say it when they want to ban cryptocurrency ATMs but this reason is not convincing at all. It's like many other reasons used by governments when they want to ban Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies like tools for scammers, tools for money laundering and so on. All these reasons are not convincing because scammers, criminals use cash and fiat currency ATMs for the same purposes too.

Do governments ban fiat currency ATMs?
They don't.

General the regulatory trend on cryptocurrency ATMs is stricter with no KYC in the past, mandatory KYC now, but what they will do next?
Ban, I don't know that it can be done without protest from citizens.

That is the double standards we get to experience when it involves crypto. Over the years, fiat has been the means of payment used by scammers and criminals of all kinds, never have we heard the government propose possible ban of fiat or implementation any strict rule regarding the use of fiat. Rather what we get from them through the banks and other financial institutions are sensitisations and various updates on how not to fall victim to fiat scams

I am not saying criminals do not also use crypto, but it would have been fair for the government to treat crypto same way they treat fiat. They should teach crypto users how to stay away from crypto scammers instead of seeking to stop crypto completely. Importantly, any crypto scammer found should be punished accordingly.

[avp2306]

The last we heard of is Tennessee, a state in the United States that banned bitcoin and crypto ATMs. I think Canada is watching closely and now proposing to ban bitcoin and crypto ATMs.

Canada also stated the same reason which is scam, that crypto ATMs are tools for scammers.

They can say it when they want to ban cryptocurrency ATMs but this reason is not convincing at all. It's like many other reasons used by governments when they want to ban Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies like tools for scammers, tools for money laundering and so on. All these reasons are not convincing because scammers, criminals use cash and fiat currency ATMs for the same purposes too.

Do governments ban fiat currency ATMs?
They don't.

General the regulatory trend on cryptocurrency ATMs is stricter with no KYC in the past, mandatory KYC now, but what they will do next?
Ban, I don't know that it can be done without protest from citizens.

That is the double standards we get to experience when it involves crypto. Over the years, fiat has been the means of payment used by scammers and criminals of all kinds, never have we heard the government propose possible ban of fiat or implementation any strict rule regarding the use of fiat. Rather what we get from them through the banks and other financial institutions are sensitisations and various updates on how not to fall victim to fiat scams

I am not saying criminals do not also use crypto, but it would have been fair for the government to treat crypto same way they treat fiat. They should teach crypto users how to stay away from crypto scammers instead of seeking to stop crypto completely. Importantly, any crypto scammer found should be punished accordingly.

Those situation mentioned happened, but I'm  not surprised with the actions done by government since fiat is political and they are biased with it. While in Bitcoin they don't know how to manipulate it and this is why they are so negative about it. Once they hear something bad scenarios happened they immediately tag Bitcoin as bad currency used by those bad actors.

Maybe its about time for them to study how useful Bitcoin and other crypto not only for them, also for their people. If they provably find out that this is similar to the fiat we are using maybe they would not think about tagging it as illegal coin. Also they can separate it to the criminal acts don't by those frauds.

[Z-tight]

If you can receive a call out of nowhere and the person somehow convinces you to go to an atm, deposit your cash-in-hand, convert it to crypto and send it to them, then i think the Canadian government are looking at the wrong enemy here. They are probably attacking the 'vulnerable' who don't understand the most basic stuff, and they should be educated.

There are a lot of BTC atm's in Canada, close to 4k machines. And the funny thing is they are regulated, they request kyc for deposits above $1k, and they follow other kyc/aml laws. Yet the government is considering banning them because of the foolishness of a few people, great job i guess, lol.

[AmoreJaz]

From the way I see it, this is just an excuse because they just do not like that more people can access Bitcoin more easily. They play the narrative that it is a "tool for scammers," even though it is not necessary to ban it completely. If the Canadian government sees that crypto ATMs are tools for scammers, they could make regulations that manage crypto ATMs more strictly, so that it minimizes the potential that they will be used by scammers to commit crimes. But the reality is they just do not see any profit on their side, so they just banned it completely.

They can always regulate the existence of btc ATMs and get tax from this business just like any other business. So I don't think scammers will use this if they know it is being watched by the government. Anyway, there are so many online trading platforms now that you don't need to use physical btc ATM to encash your btc to your fiat. That is why, you actually don't need physical btc ATM as you can conveniently use online trading platforms to get your fiat.

So even if they will ban the physical ATMs, fraudulent activities related to crypto can still happen. Because scammers are now also in the digital world where they can anonymously operate and target gullible individuals. They can actually operate so easily because they can disappear without a trace when it is over the net. Whereas, if you are dealing with physical ATM, you will always know the owners or operators of this machine. So I don't think they would want to be tagged as scammers with their business.

[Karl_3000]

There are a lot of BTC atm's in Canada, close to 4k machines. And the funny thing is they are regulated, they request kyc for deposits above $1k, and they follow other kyc/aml laws. Yet the government is considering banning them because of the foolishness of a few people, great job i guess, lol.

They can ban it if they like, they do not need to educate their old people that like to be scammed by online fake lovers. If they ban it the scammers will go back to their gift cards easily or tell their clients to register on an exchange for the business which will end as scam. There are times I will highly be disappointed in the government when they act like illiterates.

[CryptoYar]

It is case of pen is mightier than sword. Bitcoin ATMs are certainly being used by scammers because they are accessible, but thus comes misguided and exclusionary response by regulators. If we applied same theory, we would need to ban cash and gift cards since they are most widely used methods of fraud in world.

In Canada and US, it is not just ATM that is problem, it is absence of onscreen consumer awareness. Other than banning them outright, regulators should require fraud alerts and cool down periods for big amounts. In fact, by banning these ATMs, they are not preventing scams. They are driving vulnerable users to even more dangerous less regulated peer to peer methods. It is not that Consumer Protection is main goal, simply curbing alternative financial outlet that is not within direct control of traditional banking system.

[Accardo]

If you can receive a call out of nowhere and the person somehow convinces you to go to an atm, deposit your cash-in-hand, convert it to crypto and send it to them, then i think the Canadian government are looking at the wrong enemy here. They are probably attacking the 'vulnerable' who don't understand the most basic stuff, and they should be educated.

There are a lot of BTC atm's in Canada, close to 4k machines. And the funny thing is they are regulated, they request kyc for deposits above $1k, and they follow other kyc/aml laws. Yet the government is considering banning them because of the foolishness of a few people, great job i guess, lol.

The Canadian government is under a big debt threat, and can't risk a single dollar sent out to a scammer in a far away nation. Those machines are vulnerable to less than 1k dollars transaction, no doubts, but these scammers come up with threatening scenarios to take money out of aged Canadian citizens, and because they don't understand how crypto works, they could be pushed from pillar to post, even if it requires setting up a kyc, to come out of the fear of losing a loved one, for instance; the made up story from the scammer tells them that a loved one is in trouble and needs money to be rescued.  

Canada as the first nation to install a bitcoin ATM in 2013, and the only country with the largest number of Bitcoin ATM in the world, working on ending the innovation they first started, must have multiple reasons for phasing out bitcoin ATMs, which reason is more centered on putting into better usage the money they print everyday to tackle debt deficits, than letting it fall into the hands of con artists.

[Z-tight]

and because they don't understand how crypto works, they could be pushed from pillar to post, even if it requires setting up a kyc, to come out of the fear of losing a loved one, for instance; the made up story from the scammer tells them that a loved one is in trouble and needs money to be rescued. 

I like to think that their lack of understanding as to how crypto works should raise their suspicion when they receive these calls from scammers. I mean, you're telling me to withdraw fiat and then go on to deposit it into a BTC atm and send it to you, it's a 'long process', and within that time, you should get a second thought about what you're about to do.

Canada as the first nation to install a bitcoin ATM in 2013, and the only country with the largest number of Bitcoin ATM in the world,

No. The United States, not Canada, has the largest number of BTC atm's in the world.

[uchegod-21]

The last we heard of is Tennessee, a state in the United States that banned bitcoin and crypto ATMs. I think Canada is watching closely and now proposing to ban bitcoin and crypto ATMs.

Canada also stated the same reason which is scam, that crypto ATMs are tools for scammers.

They can say it when they want to ban cryptocurrency ATMs but this reason is not convincing at all. It's like many other reasons used by governments when they want to ban Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies like tools for scammers, tools for money laundering and so on. All these reasons are not convincing because scammers, criminals use cash and fiat currency ATMs for the same purposes too.

Do governments ban fiat currency ATMs?
They don't.

General the regulatory trend on cryptocurrency ATMs is stricter with no KYC in the past, mandatory KYC now, but what they will do next?
Ban, I don't know that it can be done without protest from citizens.

That is the double standards we get to experience when it involves crypto. Over the years, fiat has been the means of payment used by scammers and criminals of all kinds, never have we heard the government propose possible ban of fiat or implementation any strict rule regarding the use of fiat. Rather what we get from them through the banks and other financial institutions are sensitisations and various updates on how not to fall victim to fiat scams

I am not saying criminals do not also use crypto, but it would have been fair for the government to treat crypto same way they treat fiat. They should teach crypto users how to stay away from crypto scammers instead of seeking to stop crypto completely. Importantly, any crypto scammer found should be punished accordingly.

Those situation mentioned happened, but I'm  not surprised with the actions done by government since fiat is political and they are biased with it. While in Bitcoin they don't know how to manipulate it and this is why they are so negative about it. Once they hear something bad scenarios happened they immediately tag Bitcoin as bad currency used by those bad actors.

Maybe its about time for them to study how useful Bitcoin and other crypto not only for them, also for their people. If they provably find out that this is similar to the fiat we are using maybe they would not think about tagging it as illegal coin. Also they can separate it to the criminal acts don't by those frauds.

Bunch of hypocrites. I am certain that if these government officials have their way, they will hodl their stolen investments in bitcoin pending when public scrutiny of them will reduce. We all know the reason for the hate, and that is because they can't control bitcoin publicly like they would control fiat and everyone who uses fiat. Governments already know about Bitcoin and the best ways to approach Bitcoin for the benefit of the masses but they will rather choose the option that allows them 100% control.  It is good that more and more governments and it's citizens are beginning to do the right thing, hopefully these discussions about bitcoin ban will be a thing of the past too. Only offenders should be punished and not the entire system.

[ThemePen]

The Canadian government is under a big debt threat, and can't risk a single dollar sent out to a scammer in a far away nation. Those machines are vulnerable to less than 1k dollars transaction, no doubts, but these scammers come up with threatening scenarios to take money out of aged Canadian citizens, and because they don't understand how crypto works, they could be pushed from pillar to post, even if it requires setting up a kyc, to come out of the fear of losing a loved one, for instance; the made up story from the scammer tells them that a loved one is in trouble and needs money to be rescued.  

Canada as the first nation to install a bitcoin ATM in 2013, and the only country with the largest number of Bitcoin ATM in the world, working on ending the innovation they first started, must have multiple reasons for phasing out bitcoin ATMs, which reason is more centered on putting into better usage the money they print everyday to tackle debt deficits, than letting it fall into the hands of con artists.

While Canada was leading way in this technology, with first Bitcoin ATM ever in 2013, the government has now decided that $2.4 billion in fraud is risking safety of Canadians and economy. I believe this decision is not about halting innovation, only directing it into hands of trusted businesses where employee can spot if person is being scammed. Although this may mean loss of convenience, making system more secure helps to make sure that money stays in Canada and not in hands of overseas hackers. Objective is for digital economy to be secure, without putting people at risk.

[Accardo]

No. The United States, not Canada, has the largest number of BTC atm's in the world.

Okay just checked and US has much more bitcoin ATM than Canada, they're currently the country with the second largest number of Bitcoin ATM, I thought at first that Canada was leading in the bitcoin ATM race by a lot.

Although this may mean loss of convenience, making system more secure helps to make sure that money stays in Canada and not in hands of overseas hackers. Objective is for digital economy to be secure, without putting people at risk.

The thing is that the bitcoin community is not comfortable with the government taking over completely whatever has to do with the technology, but if they're looking to hand the control to government regulated agencies for safety or security reasons than taking all of it out completely, it's somewhat reasonable.

[PrivacyG]

I want to know when X, Apple and Google are also getting banned over there as Cryptocurrency fraud cases mount.

Oh.  Wait.  That is not the point of the ban.  Right.

The solution could have been a mandatory checklist before starting the actual Transaction.  Where the user has to read a short fraud preventive text and have to check a few 'I understand' and 'I will not' boxes but not before at least a couple seconds pass.  If even then they still check the boxes and continue to get themselves scammed, that is their stupidity to blame.  Not the damn machine.

But, this is simply repeated history.  Why find a way to stop the criminal when you can simply restrict the innocent instead!

[UchihaSarada]

I want to know when X, Apple and Google are also getting banned over there as Cryptocurrency fraud cases mount.

Oh.  Wait.  That is not the point of the ban.  Right.

The solution could have been a mandatory checklist before starting the actual Transaction.  Where the user has to read a short fraud preventive text and have to check a few 'I understand' and 'I will not' boxes but not before at least a couple seconds pass.  If even then they still check the boxes and continue to get themselves scammed, that is their stupidity to blame.  Not the damn machine.

But, this is simply repeated history.  Why find a way to stop the criminal when you can simply restrict the innocent instead!

What Facebook does with advertisements on their social media platform is crazy. They easily allowed scam advertisements, even phishing sites' advertisements, for getting easy money, and refuse to take action of banning and shutting down those phishing scam advertisements. They can use a reason that initially they did not know those sites are phishing sites, which can be somewhat acceptable but surely they must do their work better than that.

The crazy thing is when users reported those phishing scam advertisements, Facebook did not ban those advertisements with funny reasons like they don't see those ones are harmful. It shows that Facebook is truly scam and irresponsible on protecting their users.

[Arenga pinnata]

In my country, we don't have Bitcoin ATM but yet fraud cases has not reduce, same in some country that doesn't even have Bitcoin ATM yet fraud issues have not reduce and even while the government are also trying in their capabilities to fight frauds, they did not ban Bitcoin in their country, so I wonder why some country always like to tag Bitcoin as the major cause of frauds and they make it look as if omce they ban Bitcoin, the problem is half solved when it's even the beginning of the problem. Before such proposal, they should look if things has gone better in those country that band Bitcoin thinking it is the cause of their problem.

Well, this is the real issue they’ve never really paid attention to—or perhaps they have noticed it but simply turned a blind eye to it. Essentially, fraud will continue to occur even if cryptocurrency didn’t exist. In fact, fraud has existed since time immemorial—possibly even before money itself came into existence. So this isn’t about payment systems, digital money, cryptocurrency, or anything like that. Rather, fraud is simply another manifestation of a nation’s lack of prosperity. Or perhaps even due to the decline in moral standards and ethics among the people in that country. So what needs to be addressed isn’t banning Bitcoin ATMs or the like. Instead, the government must focus on how to improve the well being of its people, not just in material terms but also through moral education, which I believe is increasingly disappearing. While knowledge and technological advancements have surged rapidly, education and understanding regarding morality have plummeted drastically.

[Silikiem]

In my country, we don't have Bitcoin ATM but yet fraud cases has not reduce, same in some country that doesn't even have Bitcoin ATM yet fraud issues have not reduce and even while the government are also trying in their capabilities to fight frauds, they did not ban Bitcoin in their country, so I wonder why some country always like to tag Bitcoin as the major cause of frauds and they make it look as if omce they ban Bitcoin, the problem is half solved when it's even the beginning of the problem. Before such proposal, they should look if things has gone better in those country that band Bitcoin thinking it is the cause of their problem.

Although it wouldn’t fault any government of a country trying to see how they can control and manage fraud issues within its jurisdiction. I believe that serious issues should be followed up by some serious and drastic measures to curtail it a little. The action taken by the Canadian government is a drastic measure to curtail crime and I believe each countries have their methods of trying to control crime. The issue of this lingering fraud cases in our country is mostly as a result of the governments inability to take some drastic measures that will help to curtail it, I’m not saying that they can totally do away with fraud but at least some measures needs to be taken against it. The Canadian government doing this doesn’t mean they have totally banned the use of cryptocurrency in the country, I think they are just trying to see how they can reduce fraud.

[Dogedegen]

This is never the solution to fraud, and it shows that the government here has malicious motives but these kinds of bans are being proposed in other places too. Most of the fraud being done is with credit cards and gift cards, so why are we not banning those first? Actually if we were to ban things because they were used in fraud, then we would have to ban almost everything eventually. As a consequence of something like this people who want to buy Bitcoin with cash will have a harder time, they will be exposed to more danger and will even be less likely to pay taxes if ATMs had KYC enforced. The people do not benefit at all from a ban of this kind as I demonstrate, and actually it does not stop fraud at all. People who will be cheated with this method will also be cheated with the other methods, banning things does not stop people who are weak to fraud from being cheated. I could agree to a ban of something that has no benefit at all but is solely used for fraud, but that is not the case here.

The crazy thing is when users reported those phishing scam advertisements, Facebook did not ban those advertisements with funny reasons like they don't see those ones are harmful. It shows that Facebook is truly scam and irresponsible on protecting their users.

It is not even just Facebook, it is most of those big platforms and as you see the government never proposes banning them or doesn't even really go after them. Punishing them for some millions or even hundreds of millions is nothing when they even made more money from those scams.

[JiiBs]

The last we heard of is Tennessee, a state in the United States that banned bitcoin and crypto ATMs. I think Canada is watching closely and now proposing to ban bitcoin and crypto ATMs.

Canada also stated the same reason which is scam, that crypto ATMs are tools for scammers.

Does that solve the scamming problem?

All I know is that, these are just temporary solutions and the real kicker here is that, people need to be more aware. People need to learn how to take security a lot more seriously. Bans and bans might sound harsh and it is indeed harsh but it does serve some purpose obviously.
Bitcoin has always found a way to tune the negativity around it into some positivity. The word is surely getting out and people who need to know, would know.

[Orpichukwu]

I'm not expecting such to be coming from Canada and I hope that this proposal will be rejected as many will kick against it, I'm still wondering why some are thinking that bitcoin is an element to perpetrate any form of fraudulent activity, I still wonder why they have not been considering Fiat as the worst instrument for all this scam that has been happening over time.

Banning crypto ATMs is not the same thing as banning crypto; if the ATMs are banned or dismantled, people over there can still use exchanges and other means to buy and sell their crypto, with the common way that scammers usually direct their victims to make use of bitcoin ATMs. The need for such a ban indeed needs to arise; even with the ATM's ridiculous fee, people are still using it to move money untraced.

[rat03gopoh]

Banning crypto ATMs is not the same thing as banning crypto; if the ATMs are banned or dismantled, people over there can still use exchanges and other means to buy and sell their crypto, with the common way that scammers usually direct their victims to make use of bitcoin ATMs. The need for such a ban indeed needs to arise; even with the ATM's ridiculous fee, people are still using it to move money untraced.

^^
Even if ATMs were installed in many parts of my city, I wouldn't be interested in using them. I think it would be pointless to say: never reveal your ownership or involvement with bitcoin to the public, as you could potentially become the next target of crime. After all, ATMs are public facilities with no guarantee of privacy. Here, the crime rate involving fiat ATMs for fraud and machine modification is still high. I imagine this would also extend to physical threats if it were a bitcoin ATM.