What if Iran had chosen the path of Humanity, National building and Prosperity?

[el kaka22]

South Korea was tied to all the help they got from the west, as a way to protect itself from communism and Chinese control. It's all political, the west needed a hub at Asia, and if China owned all of Korea, it would have been terrible, for the west. So not only they fought their war for them, but they also sent an insane amount of help to them as well, while Korea of course ended up using that money very well, and built giant companies and cornered the market in so many industries, so they used the money very well, they did not started just by themselves, they got help.

Iran on the other hand, decided they want to be ruled by a regime, and then was cut off from the world, they did not get help from anyone, and sanctioned off by every west nation. It's not the same, it's not "choosing" one thing over the other.

[Doll2233]

Iran have highly educated people they have mineral wealth  strategic location in short they have all the ingredients to be the next superpower of the world. These things clearly defined the idea of Iran being South Korea of the Middle East. After the death of there supreme leader Iran is now facing a leaderless  transition. They have limited their world class engineers and scientist to build their defense system rather than investing in global financial system or technology or renewable energy. They have priorityzed their military evolvement over industrial development by trading their prosperity for isolation,  despite having world class engineers,  scientist they are still far behind and they have side lined themselves from the global economy. As we can see with other countries like South Korea and China it is proven that any national security comes from being prosperous trade partners.

[Curious T]

I think you don't get the gist. Iran can't just be looked upon one day and be sanctioned heavily for no reason, while other notable countries in the region are spared. I searched for the reason why they were heavily sanctioned for decades, and it shows that it's because of nuclear program ambition, support for terrorism, regional destabilisation and human rights abuse, among others.

This is not how you do research. You can't stop there. You have to keep going till you get to the root cause. I don't claim to be an expert in this, but you should have asked yourself why Iran started following the nuclear program ambition. If you had done that, you would have seen that the US and Britain overthrew a democratically elected prime minister in 1953. The reason for this was to protect the oil interests of the West and to make sure Iran doesn't fall into the hands of the Soviets.

You see, whether Mohammad Mossadegh was a good, visionary leader or a bad leader is not for me to say, but he was not pro West, that is for sure. He nationalised Iran's oil and that ended the British monopoly on Iranian oil. It was that change in government that led Iran to have an "American loving" government until it was overthrown for these same reasons in 1979

It was in 1979 that the first sanctions hit. During the protest, the US embassy was seized, and some workers were captured or something like that (I don't recall the details), but what I'm trying to say is, it was at this point that Iran started focusing on proxies and nuclear programs and all. I'm not here to blame Iran or the West for the state of the country today, I just wanted to give you the back story of the sanctions.

[BALIK]

I think you don't get the gist. Iran can't just be looked upon one day and be sanctioned heavily for no reason, while other notable countries in the region are spared. I searched for the reason why they were heavily sanctioned for decades, and it shows that it's because of nuclear program ambition, support for terrorism, regional destabilisation and human rights abuse, among others.

This is not how you do research. You can't stop there. You have to keep going till you get to the root cause. I don't claim to be an expert in this, but you should have asked yourself why Iran started following the nuclear program ambition. If you had done that, you would have seen that the US and Britain overthrew a democratically elected prime minister in 1953. The reason for this was to protect the oil interests of the West and to make sure Iran doesn't fall into the hands of the Soviets.

You see, whether Mohammad Mossadegh was a good, visionary leader or a bad leader is not for me to say, but he was not pro West, that is for sure. He nationalised Iran's oil and that ended the British monopoly on Iranian oil. It was that change in government that led Iran to have an "American loving" government until it was overthrown for these same reasons in 1979

It was in 1979 that the first sanctions hit. During the protest, the US embassy was seized, and some workers were captured or something like that (I don't recall the details), but what I'm trying to say is, it was at this point that Iran started focusing on proxies and nuclear programs and all. I'm not here to blame Iran or the West for the state of the country today, I just wanted to give you the back story of the sanctions.

Iran was a close ally of the US in the region before 1979. Their relationship broke down in 1979 after Khomeini came to power and declared Iran completely independent from both the US and the Soviet Union.
The US was not really angry just because the US embassy was occupied or because American diplomats were taken hostage at the time. The core issue is that Iran has decided to break away from the US system and no longer want to sell oil at US standard. To put it bluntly, Iran has harmed US interest.

The same thing happened with Venezuela. It was not nuclear bombs, it was not drugs...it was all because the interest of the US were harmed. The essence of imperialism is to destroy what it cannot have, it is ready to eliminate anyone who threatens its interest.

[EarnOnVictor]

I think you don't get the gist. Iran can't just be looked upon one day and be sanctioned heavily for no reason, while other notable countries in the region are spared. I searched for the reason why they were heavily sanctioned for decades, and it shows that it's because of nuclear program ambition, support for terrorism, regional destabilisation and human rights abuse, among others.

This is not how you do research. You can't stop there. You have to keep going till you get to the root cause. I don't claim to be an expert in this, but you should have asked yourself why Iran started following the nuclear program ambition. If you had done that, you would have seen that the US and Britain overthrew a democratically elected prime minister in 1953. The reason for this was to protect the oil interests of the West and to make sure Iran doesn't fall into the hands of the Soviets.
-Snip-

I quite understand you, and you are right, in a way, about why or not why, but the question is, is the why and the solution they proffered to the why worth what's happening in the country? One of the issue with some of the people who replied on this thread is that they did not understand the context of the thread itself, but replied based on the cause, grievance and solidarity, and others too; resentments for the Western world, which this thread has nothing to do about. It's about the projection of another Iran "if" they'd taken another course for solution. If you are talking about Western attrocities, Iran is the least of them, go to Africa, Asia and others, their handwritings are all over. However, this happened decades ago and those continents have moved past that. But Iran is still living in an "agenda", a "movement" that has clearly shown their choice, which clearly is not of Humanity or Prosperity for their people. Is it?

[Curious T]

I quite understand you, and you are right, in a way, about why or not why, but the question is, is the why and the solution they proffered to the why worth what's happening in the country? One of the issue with some of the people who replied on this thread is that they did not under the context of the thread itself, but replied based on the cause, grievance, solidarity and resentments for the Western world, which this thread has nothing to do about. It's about the projection of another Iran "if" they'd taken another course for solution. If you are talking about Western attrocities, Iran is the least of them, go to Africa, Asia and others, their handwritings are all over. However, this happened decades ago and those continents have moved past that. But Iran is still living in an "agenda", a "movement" that has clearly shown their choice, which clearly is not of Humanity or Prosperity for their people. Is it?

I can see the bias from most people on the thread. Some are either pro west or anti west. I try to be as logical as possible when discussing issues like this.

To answer your question, it's not so simple to answer a question like that without putting the history of the place in context. When you answer out of context then you get a very generic answer. For example, "Would have Britain being a powerhouse if they had not colonised most of the world?". Would America have become a superpower if Europe had not destroyed itself in world wars". These are questions you have to put context into. We can't have reasonable answers just by answering it out of context.

Because even if Iran had focused on growing it's economy, we will never know if the US, China or Russia would not want a piece of that oil. And as long as one of them wanted it, the other would find a way to take it from them. During the cold war, you had to choose between capitalist or the socialist, and for you to understand why a country chose one, you have to look at their history and context.
Even though Venezuela were unlucky enough to have horrible leaders, it had no agenda, it took no steps to enrich their Uranium, nor did they dream of having a nuclear weapon, but their economy was still not great.

So I cannot sit here and tell you if they had focused on their economy and not cared about what had happened to them in their history or what they've done, then they would have had a better country because resentment for the Western worlds are not the only things that hinders the growth of a country. African countries have no resentment for the western world and are not involved in proxy wars, yet they are still not developed.

[Alpen]

Could Iran have been the South Korea of the Middle East?

Just a quick reminder: almost 90% of South Korea's former presidents ended up in prison. On top of that, their entire economy is built around chaebols—massive conglomerates where profits and top positions are handed out strictly based on family ties and nepotism

[DiMarxist]

A stupid post from a Nigerian Trumper. I honestly thought the Maga Trumpers were worst but the Nigerian Trumper?! They leave me stunned day after day.

Defending themselves and their children is part of being humans. You can not tell people oppressed for 45 years how to live their life. You don't like them?! Then you can fvck off respectfully. Keep on kissing ass and shit, it will not improve your brain cells which you have refused to update. And Bombing innocent Children in Palestine, Iran and Lebanon is part of humanity?! So much for being part of humanity.

Why use that kind of harsh words in describing what the Op is saying, you have to in know that everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Going through the thread the Op was only trying to figure out some that he perceived should have been done by Iran using the case of South Korea which is in similar condition.But what the Op fails to realize is that every nation has their development agenda Iran decided to investing in military technology and that is because, they feel that they has an enemy which they has to protect themselves from hence the reason for these huge investments in military technology from Iran.

[AgriTrack]

He wants Iran to focus on technological advancement while its enemies sponsor weaponry that will be used to take everything from Iran in the future. I dont blame OP, though. There are things he really dont understand. When someone wants your downfall, the best thing you can do for yourself is to defend yourself at the same time and throw some punches. Iran has opened the eyes of other nations to see what could happen to them if they relent. I dont see anything more human than this.

i’m im very much surprised. Iranian has already on the path of humanity and on nation building. Not focus only on infrastructure but also work on morale strength or the character of their nation. That's they proved at the time of war. They stood with their government or support them. But if any country faces war then it is it's right to choose defending strategy. Or work for safety of the nation. Don't misguided us, it is not in human way. All world witnesses that Iran never want war with any country before this conflict with U.S. However, after this war Iran never sit calmly without discussing on their right with the world and that is it's right. Or if we are talking about the welfare of their nation, so their economy is very strong in this regard. Prices of petrol, oil are very controlled, whereas prices of goods are even at the time of war was bery manageable. it is wrong to claim that they are not working on the well being of their nation, or they just want to be in the government or their intentions are in the favour of war. All these statements are baseless

[Renampun]

The most obvious difference why Iran cannot be compared to South Korea is because of the sanctions imposed on them for decades. south korea can be so advanced because they receive support from America and various other Western countries, both in the form of economic aid, investment, and technology transfer, which makes them more advanced. meanwhile, Iran, even though they have so many resources, they cannot use them for the progress of their country due to sanctions.. and coupled with Iran's limited access to global markets and investment in their country, it makes them unable to do anything to advance their country. even looking at Iran's current condition, it is already very great that they can survive despite sanctions and isolation from the global market.

[philipma1957]

Could Iran have been the South Korea of the Middle East? Or Another viable economic rival to the UAE in the region? Yes, that's very possible. But it's provided they had chosen another course. I was so surprised by the technological capability Iran showed during the recent war. What if they had channelled it into technological evolution that the world pays for? And instead of sponsoring proxies, concentrate the money and resources into their infrastructure development and the growth of Iranian people?

The recent escalations and the tragic loss of significant leadership figures in the region invite a sombre economic reflection within and outside of the country. For decades, the global debate has focused on Iran’s "right" to nuclear technology. But as someone who votes for Humanity and positive Economics, we must ask a different question: What is the total "Opportunity Cost" of choosing military projection over national building? See around them, it is nothing but Failure!

--South Korea vs. Iran--
To buttress my view, in the 1960s, Iran and South Korea had similar GDP per capita and industrial potential. However, South Korea chose a path of "Export-Oriented Industrialisation," integrating into the global financial system. Fast forward to 2026, South Korea is now a global tech titan with a GDP of $1.9 Trillion and an Economic Complexity Index ranking in the top 5 globally. But regretfully, Iran, despite their vast oil reserves and a highly educated population, has a GDP that sits at roughly $475 billion, which could have been worse if they are not blessed with oil and over 67 other minerals resources (about 7% of world's total). The GDP is even less than 25% of South Korea's (A country with a meager resources). Let alone the development, standard of living, and the strength of national currency.

Do you know the major difference? One invested in "Chips" (semiconductors), while the other invested in "Centrifuges."

If Iran had pursued a transparent, civilian-only nuclear program that is similar to the Barakah plant in the UAE, it would now, possibly, be a global exporter of medical isotopes and cheap electricity. It hurts that the human capital in Tehran and Shiraz is world-class, but it is a tragedy of economic history that this talent is spent bypassing sanctions rather than building the "Nvidia" or "Tesla" of that region.

People may not see this, but I've always imagined an Iran that followed the path of the UAE or Saudi Arabia's "Vision 2030." With its unique geography, Iran could have been the primary bridge for the Middle Corridors trade route between Asia and Europe. I mean a pathfinder, a role model. If the billions spent on nuclear infrastructure and regional proxies had been diverted into Renewable Energy, Fintech, and Aerospace, Iran’s Supreme Leader would be presiding over a nation with near 0% unemployment and the strongest currency in the Middle East. Instead, a different path was chosen, but to what end?

Conclusively, for me, prosperity is the ultimate defence. See where China is today. I wonder how many countries could talk anyhow to or act anyhow around China. This is just because they first chose economic power. A country that is indispensable to the global supply chain is harder to attack than a country that is isolated from it. Peace!

That is because Jimmy "Fucking" Carter fucked up back in 1977-1978 time frame.

Basically he was the turning point to the doom of the world which with luck will happen in less than 20years.  At least I would be 89 in 20 years and likely dead to see the final forces of darkness overwhelm the world.

[snowpega]

Well, the tension between Iran and the US started to rise again as Iran withdrew from the direct and indirect negotiations with the US. The main reason why Iran has stepped back from the negotiation with the US because they don't want to hand over their enrich unranium to any other country. But yes, in previous talks, they have allowed the US to monitor their uranium enrichment activities, and they said that they won't enrich their uranium anymore for the peace of the whole world.

But I don't know why the US is still bothering the whole matter and disturbing the whole world ecosystem, where the rate of inflation is rising badly all over the world. Oil and gas rates are also increasing badly, and this is becoming the reason that is damaging the whole world's economies and ecosystems. What do you guys think about it?

[Lida93]

It's a pity that some understand the gist of this thread, but unfortunately, many should still have to go back to primary school, judging by how "downed" their brains are. Perhaps they should first drop their resentments and nonsense political views elsewhere out this thread and be neutral to follow the context of the post, and stop ridiculing themselves.

Stop being emotional resentful towards people's opinions just because their perspective didn't match with what you think you may have unboxed as the right pathway for Iran to have taken to attain economic and technological develop. How many countries that have played the puppet role to the global West has become as developed as you claim Iran could have been, especially with so much sanctions and huge frozen funds as Iran has faced.
Your point has being made clear and well understood in context but you obviously failed to include other external constraints therefore making your message to me a reminder of the ideologies of the modernization theory.

[EarnOnVictor]

Why use that kind of harsh words in describing what the Op is saying, you have to in know that everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Going through the thread the Op was only trying to figure out some that he perceived should have been done by Iran using the case of South Korea which is in similar condition.But what the Op fails to realize is that every nation has their development agenda Iran decided to investing in military technology and that is because, they feel that they has an enemy which they has to protect themselves from hence the reason for these huge investments in military technology from Iran.

Don't stress yourself; some people are better ignored. Talking to a boy like a man is pointless. He's already in my ignore list for his arrogance. He is free to ignore me too. "By their fruit you shall know them."

It's a pity that some understand the gist of this thread, but unfortunately, many should still have to go back to primary school, judging by how "downed" their brains are. Perhaps they should first drop their resentments and nonsense political views elsewhere out this thread and be neutral to follow the context of the post, and stop ridiculing themselves.

Stop being emotional resentful towards people's opinions just because their perspective didn't match with what you think you may have unboxed as the right pathway for Iran to have taken to attain economic and technological develop. How many countries that have played the puppet role to the global West has become as developed as you claim Iran could have been, especially with so much sanctions and huge frozen funds as Iran has faced.
Your point has being made clear and well understood in context but you obviously failed to include other external constraints therefore making your message to me a reminder of the ideologies of the modernization theory.

If telling people to stick to the scope of the thread can't be understood by an elementary school boy brain like yourself, then you are free to fu*k off the thread and let the grown up men who understand reading and its brilliant digestion have their mature inputs.

I read all what you wrote; still making the same mistake with your derailment and you are here running your guttermouth??? You are so ridiculous! Shamelessly ridiculously bragging upon nothing.

Writing so many posts for Stake must have blinded you from seeing the "hypothetical premise" of the counterfactual economic analysis of "if" in the thread.

[yixichloro2xx]

Well, the tension between Iran and the US started to rise again as Iran withdrew from the direct and indirect negotiations with the US. The main reason why Iran has stepped back from the negotiation with the US because they don't want to hand over their enrich unranium to any other country. But yes, in previous talks, they have allowed the US to monitor their uranium enrichment activities, and they said that they won't enrich their uranium anymore for the peace of the whole world.

But I don't know why the US is still bothering the whole matter and disturbing the whole world ecosystem, where the rate of inflation is rising badly all over the world. Oil and gas rates are also increasing badly, and this is becoming the reason that is damaging the whole world's economies and ecosystems. What do you guys think about it?

I just saw a news update on Al Jazeera that another reason for Iran not accepting the cease fire deal is because Israel bombing of Lebanon. Hezbollah has been a very good partner of the Iranian government, so Isreal ending them will be a major problem for them. I still don't understand why Isreal is using that fight as a means to expand and take control of the southern Lebanon lands.  This needs a serious query and the United Nations can't even do anything about it. Sometimes I wonder whats the use of or purpose of the United Nations when they can't even stop wars, punish Israel, America and others. Citizens in Lebanon are dying everyday because of Israel bomb yet the world is watching.

[Rabata]

If Iran had tried to move forward economically, Iran would have been in an existential crisis today. Israel in particular would have planned to wipe it out. But Iran's technological capabilities have made Iran so strong that they can now resist any injustice they are subjected to. And this is the only reason why Iran is still alive in the Middle East. If the economy had been given priority, Iran would have had to show loyalty to powerful countries. The United States would have had to make concessions to the country like Saudi Arabia. The same picture is seen when looking at other weak countries. A situation like Venezuela could have happened in Iran, but because of their technological capabilities and military strength, there is no chance of imposing war on this country anymore. Iran does not think in the short term, which is why they have not changed their policy even after waiting for a long time.

[Die_empty]

If Iran had tried to move forward economically, Iran would have been in an existential crisis today. Israel in particular would have planned to wipe it out. But Iran's technological capabilities have made Iran so strong that they can now resist any injustice they are subjected to. And this is the only reason why Iran is still alive in the Middle East. If the economy had been given priority, Iran would have had to show loyalty to powerful countries. The United States would have had to make concessions to the country like Saudi Arabia. The same picture is seen when looking at other weak countries. A situation like Venezuela could have happened in Iran, but because of their technological capabilities and military strength, there is no chance of imposing war on this country anymore. Iran does not think in the short term, which is why they have not changed their policy even after waiting for a long time.

Iranian leaders don't want to end up like Nicolás Maduro and Saddam Hussein; this is why they are building security instead of seeking economic development. However, Iran is not doing badly economically because they are building a sanctions-proof economy. Some countries would have collapsed if they were subjected to such Western sanctions as it is suffering from. I might be wrong, but Iranians are living better than in some developing countries. It has an education system that produces some of the best doctors, scientists, and engineers.  

[terrific]

But I don't know why the US is still bothering the whole matter and disturbing the whole world ecosystem, where the rate of inflation is rising badly all over the world. Oil and gas rates are also increasing badly, and this is becoming the reason that is damaging the whole world's economies and ecosystems. What do you guys think about it?

Because they have to do it as they have already started it.
There's money in wars and there's oil, natural resources and other stuff in it that they can take over.
Iran is rich in oil and we all know about that and it's not only about the oil but also the control in the Strait of Hormuz.
The idea of paying the toll fee is a good one and will make them a lot of money. They don't care about the world.
As long as they push for their own benefits, that's all that matters for these countries. One is a hero, one is the villain or both can be villains.

[uneng]

Iran faces the consequences of idolizing men in power positions. The society decided going through a religious fanatic path, which always inevitably becomes irrational, narrow minded and distant from reality at some point. Their regime is portrayed by themselves as perfect. Their leaders represent God's will on earth, and all the struggle they face in daily life is due to the evil actions of western world, personified on the image of USA.

The iranian regime hates USA and everything it used to represent until the early 2000's. So they poison the local society to think that way, what seems to work nicely.

In order for Iran to choose a more functional and uplifting path, they must resign the current path first: the path of religious fanatism, ignorance and envy.

[M47AK16]

Well, the tension between Iran and the US started to rise again as Iran withdrew from the direct and indirect negotiations with the US. The main reason why Iran has stepped back from the negotiation with the US because they don't want to hand over their enrich unranium to any other country. But yes, in previous talks, they have allowed the US to monitor their uranium enrichment activities, and they said that they won't enrich their uranium anymore for the peace of the whole world.

But I don't know why the US is still bothering the whole matter and disturbing the whole world ecosystem, where the rate of inflation is rising badly all over the world. Oil and gas rates are also increasing badly, and this is becoming the reason that is damaging the whole world's economies and ecosystems. What do you guys think about it?

Giving it up and let it be monitored are different things. I have said this a million times, and I will say it again, the official statement of Iran is that they are making it so that they could one day have a nuclear clean energy and they are not too far off that number, they are working to make it better too, because let's face it, not all they have are usable, some are testing only. They are basically telling USA, we are ok with you checking it, even being around and controlling it, as long as we are allowed to build more and then have nuclear plants that we can build with it, and will promise never to use it on any nukes, and you can check that to see it for yourself.