The enshitification of online gambling

[Perfectbaby]

Step back from provable fairness: Many major casinos that used to host a plethora of provably fair games now feature thousands of games that aren't provably fair.

There are exceptions of course. For instance Stake recently made the slots they've made provably fair, which means hundreds of slot games on their site are now provably fair. But this also happened with an increase in house edge... Interesting to consider that while the game results are now proven to be pre-determined, the odds became worse alongside that.

I have mentioned on some of my posts on this board before that there is nothing like provably fairness when it comes to gambling, but some people will go against me. They said the games are provably fair, but we should know that there is also house edge which is the opposite of probably fair. I think something that is provably fair should have 50:50 chance of the gambers and casinos to win or lose, but this is not how gambling is on the gambling sites

Anyone should not go against me because I know about what they will post to try to prove that there are provably fair games which I only see as money making casino fair games.

This is what most people do not know about gambling because they felt that casino games are provably fair without them also knowing that house edge are what they consider most than those who are gambling, of course no casino can make all games to be 50/50 bases because they know if that happens they could likely go bankrupt. To me it's about 10/100 when it comes how we should be quantifying the winning ratio and possibility of someone winning is still slim.

[Alex077]

...But overall, if the house edge and the number of games without provably fairness are growing, it's most likely due to users being more or less indifferent to them. It's paradoxical, but true. If the house edge and provably fairness were important to users, they would choose companies that offer the best features in this regard. But that's not the case; users prioritize other things.

I think you’re right. Most people don’t choose a casino because it has slightly better odds or provably fair games. In reality, most gamblers pay much more attention to bonuses, easy withdrawals, design, and the reputation of the casino than to house edge or provably fair mechanics. And unfortunally, for a huge part of the audience gambling is only still mostly about emotions, entertainment, and excitement rather than pure mathematical thinking.
That’s also why casinos aren’t rushing to lower their edge or make everything fully transparent.

[ChocolateBitcoinK]

Step back from provable fairness: Many major casinos that used to host a plethora of provably fair games now feature thousands of games that aren't provably fair.

There are exceptions of course. For instance Stake recently made the slots they've made provably fair, which means hundreds of slot games on their site are now provably fair. But this also happened with an increase in house edge... Interesting to consider that while the game results are now proven to be pre-determined, the odds became worse alongside that.

I have mentioned on some of my posts on this board before that there is nothing like provably fairness when it comes to gambling, but some people will go against me. They said the games are provably fair, but we should know that there is also house edge which is the opposite of probably fair. I think something that is provably fair should have 50:50 chance of the gambers and casinos to win or lose, but this is not how gambling is on the gambling sites

Anyone should not go against me because I know about what they will post to try to prove that there are provably fair games which I only see as money making casino fair games.

This is what most people do not know about gambling because they felt that casino games are provably fair without them also knowing that house edge are what they consider most than those who are gambling, of course no casino can make all games to be 50/50 bases because they know if that happens they could likely go bankrupt. To me it's about 10/100 when it comes how we should be quantifying the winning ratio and possibility of someone winning is still slim.

Yes, the casino algorithm is designed in such a way that the player's chances of losing are very high, the casino never goes bankrupt, rather reality is most gamblers go bankrupt. And you are absolutely right that a casino will never create a system based on 50% 50% probability, rather they will create a system in such a way that they will have no chance of losing, rather the house will definitely profit. So players must also understand the reality, they should not expect something that is not in the system, like a gambler wants to win consistently, but this is not possible.

[junder]

Casinos are making money from different ways and there is no way we can know everything especially those ways casinos are enriching themselves. Gamblers must learn to gamble with what they know they can afford to lose while gambling.
It is better you gamble with small odds than to use big odds and not make any money.

One of the correct behaviors in gambling is to bet an amount of money according to our ability or money that we can afford to lose, this kind of behavior is difficult to implement because most people will waver when faced with gambling, especially with profits.

And with the odds, I don't think which one is better because in my opinion small and big odds both have the same risk of losing.

[bitbollo]

You can see this approach mostly in all big markets or industry. Everywhere if money arrive... the trend is just a "mass production" harvesting as much as possible.
Anyway the "classic" gambling experience has definetely change with new platforms and new to gamble. I see few players on some platforms...
Even trading has becoming a form of gambling definetely more effective and entertainment.

[Satofan44]

Yes, the casino algorithm is designed in such a way that the player's chances of losing are very high, the casino never goes bankrupt, rather reality is most gamblers go bankrupt. And you are absolutely right that a casino will never create a system based on 50% 50% probability, rather they will create a system in such a way that they will have no chance of losing, rather the house will definitely profit. So players must also understand the reality, they should not expect something that is not in the system, like a gambler wants to win consistently, but this is not possible.

This has nothing to do with the thread because it is not a new thing, it has always been like this. Actually, online casinos with increased competition have lead to a significant decrease in the house edge. It was much worse before this was a thing, focus on the things that actually makes casinos shitty and a realistic house edge is not one of them.

One of the correct behaviors in gambling is to bet an amount of money according to our ability or money that we can afford to lose, this kind of behavior is difficult to implement because most people will waver when faced with gambling, especially with profits.

And with the odds, I don't think which one is better because in my opinion small and big odds both have the same risk of losing.

This is not related to the topic.

You can see this approach mostly in all big markets or industry. Everywhere if money arrive... the trend is just a "mass production" harvesting as much as possible.
Anyway the "classic" gambling experience has definetely change with new platforms and new to gamble. I see few players on some platforms...
Even trading has becoming a form of gambling definetely more effective and entertainment.

You've seen it with video games, you've seen it with various hardware devices and all sorts of things. They are actually trying to get a subscription-only based model of video games going. This is the real reason why things turn to shit, when big markets and industry gets to it. They do not care at all about providing a good utility or customer experience, it is only about milking the idiot consumer more out of money. But on the other hand, you can equally blame the consumers for this shit. How many in the case of video games still do preorders for stupid bonuses that cost the company nothing to release? How many users play in casinos that have various issues that are outlined in this thread just to get a small bonus or for whatever other stupid reason? If people did not do those things, the companies would change course. As long as you have an army of sheep, the mass of humans is going to ruin everything that it gets it hands on.

[Smartprofit]

I believe the negative changes that have occurred in the online casino industry since 2010 are related to the fact that it has become a highly competitive environment. 🙋

Now, online casinos should have a 5-10 percent advantage over players, not just 1 percent (as was the case in 2010).

And, by the way, government regulation, in my opinion, played a significant role in this. I've seen many forum threads discussing which is better: a licensed casino or an unlicensed one. And most forum participants wrote that they would prefer a licensed casino... However, a license costs money! And a large staff costs money too! And the need for promotion and influencer fees also requires significant expenses! That's why, in my opinion, all these changes have occurred...

[Findingnemo]

I don't really care about RTP, it is negligible when it comes to my individual bet so it should not be a part to bother for anyone but regarding the innovation, yeah it feels like we reached the threshold and just keep seeing the same games over and over but with different names and different animations so they also got different RTP but the core concept is like 4 or 5 major ones and the whole casino is just surrounded by it all the time but that is also the case even before a century.

They tried new innovations like pvp gambling but I don't think it ever took off like the tradional ones, so casinos are just sticking with what majority of their players wants.

[serjent05]

I believe the negative changes that have occurred in the online casino industry since 2010 are related to the fact that it has become a highly competitive environment. 🙋

Should this be a positive change?  Since online casinos are competing against each other, they should offer better deals to players instead of exploiting them.

Now, online casinos should have a 5-10 percent advantage over players, not just 1 percent (as was the case in 2010).

Was this happening because gamblers don't mind the changes and just keep on gambling?  And I wonder what are these regulatory board doing, are they paid to give a blind eye on this negative changes?

And, by the way, government regulation, in my opinion, played a significant role in this. I've seen many forum threads discussing which is better: a licensed casino or an unlicensed one. And most forum participants wrote that they would prefer a licensed casino... However, a license costs money! And a large staff costs money too! And the need for promotion and influencer fees also requires significant expenses! That's why, in my opinion, all these changes have occurred...

I highly agree the authority played a significant role why the casinos are doing this.  After all, they are the ones checking and approving the amendments on terms and licenses of gambling companies.

[Fortify]

I hold the thesis that online gambling reached its peak in the 10s decade.

Provable fairness, low house edge, no KYC, instant crypto deposits and withdrawals, original browser-based games without add-ons or third party providers, custom win-rate games like with crypto-dice. It was all achieved within this timespan.

The trend now especially post-pandemic has been a reversal of nice trends that we saw in iGaming.

There are exceptions of course. For instance Stake recently made the slots they've made provably fair, which means hundreds of slot games on their site are now provably fair. But this also happened with an increase in house edge... Interesting to consider that while the game results are now proven to be pre-determined, the odds became worse alongside that.

There's very little innovation nowdays. Interesting how crypto casinos have come to function without competition in terms of innovation even though they're holding competing products, supposedly.

The only innovation they make is to make them more money.
The other day I was looking at live dealer baccarat, a very traditionally low risk casino game, and the dealer was forced to promote side bets every 2 rounds. Kinda makes sense because the house edge of baccarat is around 1.24% whereas side bets have a whooping 10% house edge which is so crazy to consider.

Doesn't really make sense, because the more competition that is out there, the more casinos have to squeeze their margins to attract and keep players. It's actually a good thing when there is a lot more casinos out there and the range of games is a lot greater. You do need to keep an eye on things though, because even the most subtle changes - like converting a single zero roulette board into double or triple, can have a massive effect on your odds of winning. The casinos back then probably used less effective "random" number generators, because remember that the house wins either ways so they're not massively concerned and would prefer that the game appears as normal as possible. Plus all of these casino and sportsbooks also give away a lot more money these days, which is great as a player as long as you understand the rules.

[Agbamoni]

This is what most people do not know about gambling because they felt that casino games are provably fair without them also knowing that house edge are what they consider most than those who are gambling, of course no casino can make all games to be 50/50 bases because they know if that happens they could likely go bankrupt. To me it's about 10/100 when it comes how we should be quantifying the winning ratio and possibility of someone winning is still slim.

Provably fair games can be proven or verified with evidence, but the casino has no evidence to show that it is provably fair. There is no explanation why the house edge always has 95% of win chance of winning over the players. I experimented with 6 provably fair games yesterday, and I hardly got a win from those games until I stopped and went on to bet on sports. I dont trust the provably fair. I still believe that fairness cannot be proven by the casino.

[TopT3ns]

This is what most people do not know about gambling because they felt that casino games are provably fair without them also knowing that house edge are what they consider most than those who are gambling, of course no casino can make all games to be 50/50 bases because they know if that happens they could likely go bankrupt. To me it's about 10/100 when it comes how we should be quantifying the winning ratio and possibility of someone winning is still slim.

Provably fair games can be proven or verified with evidence, but the casino has no evidence to show that it is provably fair. There is no explanation why the house edge always has 95% of win chance of winning over the players. I experimented with 6 provably fair games yesterday, and I hardly got a win from those games until I stopped and went on to bet on sports. I dont trust the provably fair. I still believe that fairness cannot be proven by the casino.

The principle of provably fair must enable users to self check each results by transparent cryptographic functions. Nevertheless, the effect of losing streaks tends to cast suspicion on integrity of the system run by the casino. Technical transparency is in fact an illusion, but it would be far more reasonable to shift to sports betting where there are actual results to ensure that people do not lose faith in the game.

[mak013]

I hold the thesis that online gambling reached its peak in the 10s decade.

Provable fairness, low house edge, no KYC, instant crypto deposits and withdrawals, original browser-based games without add-ons or third party providers, custom win-rate games like with crypto-dice. It was all achieved within this timespan.

~
There's very little innovation nowdays. Interesting how crypto casinos have come to function without competition in terms of innovation even though they're holding competing products, supposedly.

~

May be it is so, because that time casino tried to attract new clients and nowadays casinos try to get clients from other casinos?
If it is so, casinos will try to steal ideas from each other and make some new skins for old games. They will improve their bonus programs, loyalty programs, etc - something that makes old client stay and add some newcomers from other casinos. They don`t need spend resources to generate new ideas, they prefer steal the result.
May be i`m mistaken, but i see the same situation in different lines of business, connected with IT.

[Pandu Geddon]

May be it is so, because that time casino tried to attract new clients and nowadays casinos try to get clients from other casinos?
If it is so, casinos will try to steal ideas from each other and make some new skins for old games. They will improve their bonus programs, loyalty programs, etc - something that makes old client stay and add some newcomers from other casinos. They don`t need spend resources to generate new ideas, they prefer steal the result.
May be i`m mistaken, but i see the same situation in different lines of business, connected with IT.

I am not sure about all of that, but indeed, being the first to innovate with a new game may not guarantee greater player interest. However, every casino might look at the market and gamblers' interests to develop a new game. I guess there isn’t much innovation for crypto casinos. More players tend to like certain games, or if there is a new game, it might still be the same type of game, just with different packaging.

[Smartprofit]

I believe the negative changes that have occurred in the online casino industry since 2010 are related to the fact that it has become a highly competitive environment. 🙋

Should this be a positive change?  Since online casinos are competing against each other, they should offer better deals to players instead of exploiting them.

Now, online casinos should have a 5-10 percent advantage over players, not just 1 percent (as was the case in 2010).

Was this happening because gamblers don't mind the changes and just keep on gambling?  And I wonder what are these regulatory board doing, are they paid to give a blind eye on this negative changes?

And, by the way, government regulation, in my opinion, played a significant role in this. I've seen many forum threads discussing which is better: a licensed casino or an unlicensed one. And most forum participants wrote that they would prefer a licensed casino... However, a license costs money! And a large staff costs money too! And the need for promotion and influencer fees also requires significant expenses! That's why, in my opinion, all these changes have occurred...

I highly agree the authority played a significant role why the casinos are doing this.  After all, they are the ones checking and approving the amendments on terms and licenses of gambling companies.

I'm observing the changes taking place in my country and coming to some interesting conclusions... 🙋

Almost any government regulation does more harm than good. The economy and society are vast, self-regulating systems with feedback loops. Therefore, if left uninterrupted, they will function most efficiently and optimally...

However, if the government actively intervenes in the economy and society by creating new regulations, requiring licensing, imposing fines and other sanctions, then everything becomes much worse... These complex systems, of course, won't collapse overnight. However, they will become less effective... And the country's citizens will essentially pay for all these negative changes.

The same, in my opinion, applies to gambling. Government licensing requirements don't make online casinos more attractive to players. On the contrary, they only worsen the gambling situation.  Here, in my opinion, it's also important to note that officials are never held liable for harm caused by their actions. This is because such harm is very difficult to assess and classify. Moreover, the well-being of officials in many countries is completely independent of the wisdom of the management decisions they make. Unfortunately. 🤷

[danherbias07]

I don't really care about RTP, it is negligible when it comes to my individual bet so it should not be a part to bother for anyone but regarding the innovation, yeah it feels like we reached the threshold and just keep seeing the same games over and over but with different names and different animations so they also got different RTP but the core concept is like 4 or 5 major ones and the whole casino is just surrounded by it all the time but that is also the case even before a century.

They tried new innovations like pvp gambling but I don't think it ever took off like the tradional ones, so casinos are just sticking with what majority of their players wants.

Good point. I think slot providers must hear about this.

Their games are almost the same, with just a repetitive style, but different images are used. I bet they are also using the same RTP percentage for those games because that's where the online casino makes profits. I mean, there's no real change when it comes to RNG and RTP. Worse, the house edge will add to the difficulty of winning each roll, and it's getting boring when all we will see are losses, which leads to frustration.
I bet in the future there will be more sports bettors than playing slot games or other casino games. They may be simple to play, but once you play them, it becomes a stressful type of gambling.

[xenomorfo]

Good point. I think slot providers must hear about this.

Their games are almost the same, with just a repetitive style, but different images are used. I bet they are also using the same RTP percentage for those games because that's where the online casino makes profits. I mean, there's no real change when it comes to RNG and RTP. Worse, the house edge will add to the difficulty of winning each roll, and it's getting boring when all we will see are losses, which leads to frustration.
I bet in the future there will be more sports bettors than playing slot games or other casino games. They may be simple to play, but once you play them, it becomes a stressful type of gambling.

I didn't understand much of what you said, but i absolutely agree with you on one thing, if the game isn't balanced it becomes unfun and people will perceive it as disadvantageous and won't play it.
Then the slots, one of the most boring games ever

[Betwrong]

~
Promotion of slots: casinos realized they can rake in millions by promoting the most addictive games. Nice animations but terrible RTP.

I'm personally disappointed with today's animations. I play slots a lot and constantly try new ones. I like nice animation and music and sounds, and I expected some progress in this regard with time, but, unfortunately, unlike in the film industry, nothing has changed in the world of slots over the past seven years. But regarding "terrible RTP" I disagree. Today most slots RTP is around 95%, and that's not terrible in my book.

[Inwestour]

Casinos are just a business, and I’m not even surprised that they do everything possible to increase the advantage on their side. Casinos have a lot of money, so they hire marketers and other specialists who teach them how to maximize profits. I think casinos have never really cared much about players, but now the desire to generate higher profits is going beyond all reasonable limits. That’s exactly why I stopped playing slots and any other casino games, because I understand how all of this works. Betting is the only section where I still continue to play.

[iv4n]

There's very little innovation nowdays. Interesting how crypto casinos have come to function without competition in terms of innovation even though they're holding competing products, supposedly.

The only innovation they make is to make them more money.

I wouldn't say it's some innovation, but it's true, some casinos are making more money than ever. When it comes to new games, features, better & more interesting bonuses, they are all stuck... or at least something like that. Maybe they found a model that works, so even new casinos look like a copy/paste. The name and colors are different, but everything else is the same.

Well, I am waiting for something new to surprise me... years are passing, but I think something new will arise eventually. The question is, will it be invented by fiat or the crypto gambling space?