Bitcoin Forum
October 17, 2021, 05:59:10 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 22.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 [500] 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 ... 607 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] CommunityCoin (COMM) | Pure PoS | Original COMM MultiPools Coming Soon  (Read 523704 times)
Amph
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2758
Merit: 1030



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 09:41:33 AM
 #9981

we can fork and makes it X11 (I am pretty sure it would be possible...)

Of course. Just tell me. Why?
X11 is a POW algo. Why should it be implemented in a POS system?

Pure POS has a set of serious flaws that need adressing. Migrating to X11 is utterly meaningless.

I also dont understand why we would need POW algo like X11 Smiley

Which are the flaws you are referring?

Generally the cost to do an attack on a fully POS system is minimal.
A wallet can vote for several different generated blocks without any cost of doing so. It is a similar attack vector like 51% attacks in POW, just without the calculation cost.
Mind, you still need a sizeable amount of coins or at least nodes to do such an attack.

Nevertheless, it is without calculation price.


This is new to me! I thought that you could only attack if you would have more than 51% of the coins!

I am not completly sure about every detail. I am sure though, that you don't need 51% of all coins.

Maybe 51% of all minting coins, but never more.
And the minting ones aren't that many after all.
I think the metric more relevant is the amount of nodes you control. A Botnet would have a compareably easy approach on attacking a POS system.

So, POS is far from invincible

wiki say that you need 51% of all coin to do it, but doing so will damage yourself, which is stupid

Wiki is wrong, or rather unclear if it is stated like that in there.
You will at the very most need 51% of all minting coins. And that only if you want to ensure that your attack will succeed 100%. If you don't believe that, think for a moment. Create a coin with 100 Million units and sink 50 Million of these. Now the coin is safe as nobody can own 51 Million of the coin? I don't think so.

In any way. The problem here is, that with a large amount of coins you can basically flood the network with blocks and vote for all your own blocks, hoping that other nodes will vote for your blocks as well.
An attack of this kind is very cheap, as you don't need serious calculation power to generate a block. And you don't need a large amount of coins.

This is a problem that needs adressing if pure POS should work at any time.

if 1/2 are sinked(sinked you mean that they are out of the supply count right), then the new 51% is 1/4 of the to old total or 1/2 of the new one

Not really. What you interpret as supply count are only the coins staking/minting.
And it is really that. The staking coins.

Imagine an extreme example.

There is only one node with one coin. Then this one node with the one coin creates all blocks and thus determines what is going on.

other % supply attack are surely possible , but he must own a large number of stake, he can't do an attack with 1% of the cap

Of course. If only 1% of the cap is minting, then he can do the attack.
Inactive or cold stored coins don't count in this calculation.
If the attacker owns all the nodes in the network it is of no concern how many coins of the total cap he owns. He is the network. He decides which blocks are accepted and which are rejected. He generates all blocks.
Moving on from this simply conclusion you can surely see why only the coins actively participating in the minting process are of concern to the question how many coins are needed to effectively attack the network.

how can he own all the node? you mean no one beside him is minting

approx 640k comm coins(0.08%) are minted every day, he can do an attack if he own 320k+ at least, but to do this he need 400M+ comm coin

the hashpower in a pos coin is your stake not your mint, so compared to the traditional pow you need a certain % to do an attack, but i don't know if other %attack like finney

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

I'm not talking about the minted, but the minting coins.

If he owns most of the minting coins, he owns the network.

I go back to the beginning. Your logic dictates, that the network would be forever safe, if the dev would have lost 500 Million instead of 200 Million. Obviously this is ridiculous.

And yet again. The wiki is no good source for in detail questions.
It's good enough for people who take a quick look and leave again. As soon as you ask "and how/why exactly is it like it is written here?" the wiki becomes pretty lacking.

but those lost coin are not in the network anymore, it's like they don't exist anymore nodes can't relies on them, so an attack it's still possibile even in that scenario

are you sure about the fact that someone can own the network if he own a large % of the minting coin? because that's seems to easy to me, % of minting coin for a certain time is a very very low number

anyway to control a great % of the minting coin, the diff must be really low(also competitors should have a low stake), and he should have a right % of the total supply

There is a reason why peercoin switched to an almost completly centralized model as the amount of POW compared to POS dimnishes. They have the same problem over there. It is also the reason why pure POS hasn't been done all that often in the past. You can do it now, as there are enough people who jump a train like this without knowing what exactly it is.

Mind, it is not trivial to own the network. It is just a lot cheaper calculation and investment wise. By now nobody has done it I think. Pure POS is niche enough to be safe for the time being.

And you also need to code a new wallet which can use the flaws of the POS system. That is another point. The attack vector I'm talking about is academical for the time being.

Oh, and the coins are in the network. The clients just reject any transaction from the adress they are stored in.

The network is a consensus machine. If enough nodes have consensus about something, it will be done.

i don't think an attack of that type, that aim at the minting phase is as a strong a contorlling a large % of the supply coin, which is the case of POS coin, this value is the hashpower

he can double spend only those minting coins....i'm not sure about this

but i think that the attack strength is directly proportional to the % of the coin owned
1634450350
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1634450350

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1634450350
Reply with quote  #2

1634450350
Report to moderator
1634450350
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1634450350

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1634450350
Reply with quote  #2

1634450350
Report to moderator
Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1634450350
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1634450350

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1634450350
Reply with quote  #2

1634450350
Report to moderator
1634450350
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1634450350

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1634450350
Reply with quote  #2

1634450350
Report to moderator
1634450350
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1634450350

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1634450350
Reply with quote  #2

1634450350
Report to moderator
Omega6
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 46
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2014, 09:48:08 AM
 #9982

Has no one even mentioned that there already is a Communitycoin?

https://github.com/CaptChadd/Communitycoin

OK so the Dev is not active anymore but where did they get the idea of Communitycoin from? Did they even check if it had already been released? They must have known as the .org domain is taken.

Did the Dev's not think to do a revival or at least inform previous miners that this is a rebooted coin?
djm34
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1047


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2014, 10:32:33 AM
 #9983

we can fork and makes it X11 (I am pretty sure it would be possible...)

Sounds here like you don't care much for POS?
sounds like you don't understand sarcasm

djm34 facebook page
BTC: 1NENYmxwZGHsKFmyjTc5WferTn5VTFb7Ze
Pledge for neoscrypt ccminer to that address: 16UoC4DmTz2pvhFvcfTQrzkPTrXkWijzXw
aqlzf123
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 03, 2014, 11:58:49 AM
 #9984

Feeling grateful COMM, very happy to get it.

XiaoHuli
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 33
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 03, 2014, 12:48:53 PM
 #9985

COMM is not so hot these days. The price is down to earth. ppl have dumped all their coins and left for new coins.
Timsteve
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 39
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 03, 2014, 01:33:47 PM
 #9986

COMM is not so hot these days. The price is down to earth. ppl have dumped all their coins and left for new coins.
No. Not exactly. COMM are in a pretty stable price thought the price is down a little. team is working on and ppl are still believing.
evi_stale
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 02:15:29 PM
 #9987

COMM is not so hot these days. The price is down to earth. ppl have dumped all their coins and left for new coins.
No. Not exactly. COMM are in a pretty stable price thought the price is down a little. team is working on and ppl are still believing.

Working on what?
Just been watching the bloodbath in the AC thread  Grin
Go and fetch there some Comm supporters.
Armis
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 501



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 02:18:54 PM
 #9988

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??


[edit] now it's going back up 30, 40, 50 not yet 60

what's happening???
Amph
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2758
Merit: 1030



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 02:21:04 PM
 #9989

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??

it's at 69, what are you talking about?
evi_stale
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 02:21:56 PM
 #9990

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??

it's at 69, what are you talking about?

just FUD
djm34
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1047


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
 #9991

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??
you should be happy then... (market still frozen on polo... that makes morons not aware of polo problem fud...)

djm34 facebook page
BTC: 1NENYmxwZGHsKFmyjTc5WferTn5VTFb7Ze
Pledge for neoscrypt ccminer to that address: 16UoC4DmTz2pvhFvcfTQrzkPTrXkWijzXw
Armis
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 501



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 02:23:56 PM
Last edit: May 03, 2014, 02:40:27 PM by Armis
 #9992

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??

it's at 69, what are you talking about?

just FUD


FUD?   all of that was FUD, you've got to be kidding?!!  well if that's the cased there's a bargain for Comm right now

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??
you should be happy then... (market still frozen on polo... that makes morons not aware of polo problem fud...)

I just dumped nearly 100K Comm at firesale rates because of complete hysteria, are you saying there was no actual problem?
djm34
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1047


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2014, 02:32:41 PM
 #9993

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??

it's at 69, what are you talking about?

just FUD


FUD?   all of that was FUD, you've got to be kidding?!!  well if that's the cased there's a bargain for Comm right now
that's a problem... too many bargain at the same time, COMM, MRC.... which one to choose ?  Grin

djm34 facebook page
BTC: 1NENYmxwZGHsKFmyjTc5WferTn5VTFb7Ze
Pledge for neoscrypt ccminer to that address: 16UoC4DmTz2pvhFvcfTQrzkPTrXkWijzXw
Armis
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 501



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 02:44:21 PM
 #9994

Comm is going through the floor what's going on

I was just about to buy at 71, then it went to 64, then 54, 40, 30 ...


what's happening Huh??

it's at 69, what are you talking about?

just FUD


FUD?   all of that was FUD, you've got to be kidding?!!  well if that's the cased there's a bargain for Comm right now
that's a problem... too many bargain at the same time, COMM, MRC.... which one to choose ?  Grin


MRC??? would not touch again until I see signs of life.  I'm still looking at carp diem to see how they resurrect themselves if that turns out fine I'll have a better outlook on MRC.


COMM is right back to normal like nothing ever happened. ahahhaaaaa, I can't believe it. 
qqNxt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 524
Merit: 100



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 03:19:23 PM
 #9995

so do we have any words on wether we are going to hard fork that 200mil out forever?

keeping the 200mil even locked up is not good.

removing it completely will raise the value of everyone's comm and we will not need to worry about it suddenly coming back out and diluting the market.

djm34
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1047


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2014, 04:44:02 PM
 #9996

so do we have any words on wether we are going to hard fork that 200mil out forever?

keeping the 200mil even locked up is not good.

removing it completely will raise the value of everyone's comm and we will not need to worry about it suddenly coming back out and diluting the market.
looks like the COMMunication does not work well... and quite frankly this is getting boring...
read the freaking posts...

(I will finish by writing comments in red myself  Grin)

djm34 facebook page
BTC: 1NENYmxwZGHsKFmyjTc5WferTn5VTFb7Ze
Pledge for neoscrypt ccminer to that address: 16UoC4DmTz2pvhFvcfTQrzkPTrXkWijzXw
SomeRelax
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


View Profile
May 03, 2014, 05:02:28 PM
 #9997

guys, can we do a poll for hard fork?
maybe gathering some pledge for hiring a developer
i think we can do this like earlier days
djm34
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1047


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2014, 05:11:01 PM
Last edit: May 03, 2014, 05:32:09 PM by djm34
 #9998

guys, can we do a poll for hard fork?
maybe gathering some pledge for hiring a developer
i think we can do this like earlier days

you can pledge your 2M if you want, I am not pledging anything for that no matter the result of the vote  Grin
And actually you are 3... It would certainly be better to focus on real development which will bring value to
the coin rather than solving problems which has been already solved.

djm34 facebook page
BTC: 1NENYmxwZGHsKFmyjTc5WferTn5VTFb7Ze
Pledge for neoscrypt ccminer to that address: 16UoC4DmTz2pvhFvcfTQrzkPTrXkWijzXw
jalmari
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 814
Merit: 1000



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 05:43:42 PM
 #9999

I think that we should just add some lines regarding this wallet issue in the OP and then forget the whole thing.

- some words about the fix; what it actually does
- link to the changes been made
- link to wallet in block explorer
- some words why you cannot bring these lost coins alive just making a new wallet without the Adriano's fix
- ...

All these things are already in the thread but it is very hard to find.

If these would be in the OP we could just say RTFM! Cheesy

              ▄▄██▄▄
          ▄▄██████████▄▄
      ▄▄██████████████████▄▄
  ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▀▀██████████▄▄
▄█████████▀▀          ▀▀█████████▄
██████▀▀        ▄▄        ▀▀██████
██████      ▄▄██████▄▄      ██████
██████    ██████████████    ██████
██████    ██████████████    ██████
██████    ██████████████    ██████
██████      ▀▀██████▀▀      ██████
██████          ▀▀        ▄▄██████
▀█████    ▄▄          ▄▄█████████▀
   ▀▀█    ████▄▄ ▄▄██████████▀▀
          ████████████████▀▀
          ▀▀██████████▀▀
              ▀▀██▀▀
P H O R E

     █
    █
   █
  █
   █
    █
   █
  █
 █
    KryptKoin rebranded to Phore   
     █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █
PoS 3.0  –  Masternodes  –  Zerocoin


     █
    █
   █
  █
   █
    █
   █
  █
 █
.


            ▄▄██▄▄
        ▄▄██████████▄▄
    ▄▄████████▀▀████████▄▄
 ▄████████▀▀      ▀▀████████▄
▐█████▀▀              ▀▀█████▌
▐████       ▄▄██▄▄       ████▌
▐████    ▄██████████▄    ████▌
▐████    ████████████    ████▌
▐████    ▀██████████▀    ████▌
▐████       ▀▀██▀▀       ████▌
 ▀███                 ▄▄█████▌
    ▀    █▄▄      ▄▄████████▀
         █████▄▄████████▀▀
         ▀██████████▀▀
            ▀▀██▀▀
evi_stale
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100



View Profile
May 03, 2014, 05:46:06 PM
 #10000

I think that we should just add some lines regarding this wallet issue in the OP and then forget the whole thing.

- some words about the fix; what it actually does
- link to the changes been made
- link to wallet in block explorer
- some words why you cannot bring these lost coins alive just making a new wallet without the Adriano's fix
- ...

All these things are already in the thread but it is very hard to find.

If these would be in the OP we could just say RTFM! Cheesy

Don't think it's gonna work. Trust is a very important factor, especially after what happened today with Asiancoin.
Pages: « 1 ... 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 [500] 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 ... 607 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!