Has Bitcointalk Become Harder for Genuine Beginners?

[Joy- maker]

Greeting to you all my fellow bitcointalk members. This thread was as a result of what i have observed on the forum so i do not know if something similar has been discussed about before. However, i used the search button and could not find anything of this kind.

As we all know, bitcointalk is one of the oldest cryptocurrency forums, and over the year the forum has developed systems to reduce spam, scams, plagiarism, and low quality discussions. while these changes have helped improve the quality of the forum, i sometime wonder whether the forum has also become more difficult for genuine beginners.

Well, i am still new to the forum just a year plus, but as history has it. Years ago, ranking up on the forum was not really as difficult as it is now, back them ranking up was mainly based on activity, but today merit plays the major role in ranking up, and this have changed how users interact on the forum.

The merit system was introduced for a good reason because many users were making meaningless posts, low quality post and even spamming only to join signature campaigns. and without the system who knows what the forum could become by now.

Perhaps from a beginner's perspective things may look different. A newbie can spend weeks, months making posts on the forum without receiving a single merit. sometimes the newbie may even have useful opinions but struggle because they do not know how to structure quality discussions or older members may ignore their post due to low rank.

[PX-Z]

If this is about the merit implementation on Bitcointalk, then it only shows that the system is working as intended. Ranking up now takes more time for users who don't make quality posts, interact with other users, or contribute meaningful discussions to the forum. It's not only about posting quality content, but also giving direct and useful answers when someone is asking questions.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

I joined the forum in 2017 and wasn't active until several months after the merit system was introduced, which means it was more like a beginning from scratch, but I was a bit more familiar with the forum since I was reading mostly without posting/replying at first.

I don't think it has become harder for genuine newbies because they know what brought them to the forum. The merits and ranks are just an added bonus. We have lots of Brilliant members who joined after the merit system. Maybe what you can say is that it has become harder for account farmers, account traders, and spammers.

[Alvin_talk]

A newbie can spend weeks, months making posts on the forum without receiving a single merit. sometimes the newbie may even have useful opinions but struggle because they do not know how to structure quality discussions or older members may ignore their post due to low rank.

Perhaps this is a bit subjective. There are genuine newbies who gets merits from the first post they made and still counting,e.g: this user

All I can say is that merit shouldn't be the sole reason a newbie should get registered in this space, learn to add value to other users and surely you will be surprised the milestone you have reached. I know I am not yet established around here nor do I have lots of merits but it can never discourage me from posting in this space anymore because I know a day will come when I will get there too, after all, most users here started as newbies but look where some are today.

[rat03gopoh]

Perhaps from a beginner's perspective things may look different. A newbie can spend weeks, months making posts on the forum without receiving a single merit.

The real question isn't whether someone is a genuine beginner, a referred beginner, or a fake beginner, but what their true goals are. Genuine beginners rarely know about merit, signature campaigns, or reputation boards.
Besides, doesn't someone have any activities outside the forum to alleviate these feelings?

Being a beginner (without monetization goals) isn't difficult: just register, read the important rules carefully, and start discuss.

[BlackBoss_]

Frankly speaking, all these things sometimes can make genuine newbies to be discouraged quickly and began to feel that ranking up depends more on recognition than efforts and that's how i see the forum now.  Personally, i would say that this frustration sometimes can push newbies towards copy pasting, Ai generated content, account farming and so on just to survive on the forum.  So, please older users not only merit sources should have rethink genuine newbies are struggling to grow on the forum.

When newbies can get a lot of merit like some users in The future of Bitcointalk, I don't see it's too hard for newbies to use the forum and to rank up.

Are all the users in the future of bitcointalk list genuine beginners?
Perhaps not all of them are genuine but it does not change my opinion that genuine beginners/ newbies can use the forum very well and comfortable. There is no problem for reading, searching, reading or asking. Just Newbies - Read before posting.

[FinneysTrueVision]

Perhaps this is a bit subjective. There are genuine newbies who gets merits from the first post they made and still counting,e.g: this user

BobClawBlaw isn’t a typical newbie. It is an automated account created by somebody who has been on the forum a long time.

A newbie can spend weeks, months making posts on the forum without receiving a single merit. sometimes the newbie may even have useful opinions but struggle because they do not know how to structure quality discussions or older members may ignore their post due to low rank.

Going months without earning a merit is practically impossible for anybody who isn’t a straight up spammer. I can only see this being true if somebody isn’t very active. Maybe if you focus too much on discussing gambling or politics it can happen. This is still a Bitcoin forum, so I don’t have a problem with it being harder to earn merit in certain boards.

[nutildah]

I remember your name because I'm consistently astounded by how bad your posts are.

As we all know, bitcointalk is one of the oldest cryptocurrency forums,

So even a statement like this - your opening statement - suggests you haven't learned anything here, yet you've written over 2000 posts.

i sometime wonder whether the forum has also become more difficult for genuine beginners.

You're approaching this from an account farmer mindset. Believe it or not there are some people that sign up on this forum without ever wanting to join a signature campaign or rank up. They're here to learn about Bitcoin, or whatever. Their merit per post ratio is probably higher than yours, because readers understand their motivations are genuine.

Frankly speaking, all these things sometimes can make genuine newbies to be discouraged quickly and began to feel that ranking up depends more on recognition than efforts and that's how i see the forum now.  

Newbies who are here to farm accounts or rank up as quickly as possible to join a signature campaign should absolutely be discouraged. We are obviously not doing enough to make them uncomfortable because many sections of the forum are still being overrun with shitposts.

Newbies who are sincere in their desire to learn or have anything remotely interesting to say will do just fine.

[Rikafip]

Frankly speaking, all these things sometimes can make genuine newbies to be discouraged quickly and began to feel that ranking up depends more on recognition than efforts and that's how i see the forum now.

Genuine newbies won't obsess and stress about merit and rankings. They will simply discuss on the forum, and merit will come if what they are writing makes sense. 

If this is about the merit implementation on Bitcointalk, then it only shows that the system is working as intended.

That might have been the case in the early merit days (like first few years) but nowadays I think that merit system is somewhat failing as there is a surge of shitposter accounts that have no issues reaching higher ranks. To simply put, there is too much merit going around (speaking in general, some parts of the forum are probably still undermited).

[Joy- maker]

I remember your name because I'm consistently astounded by how bad your posts are.

I am glad you remembered my username, you can go ahead and check my post history to see if there are any post of yours that are better than mine. I agree with you that I made bad posts in the past when I first joined the forum, but that doesn't mean I am still making bad posts presently, so grow up dude.

So even a statement like this - your opening statement - suggests you haven't learned anything here, yet you've written over 2000 posts.

My opening statement is perfectly fine, after Bitcointalk forum was created there  were five other cryptocurrency forums according to my research that were created namely: Litecointalk in the year 2011, Bitcoin garden in 2013, Cryptocointalk in 2013, altcointalk in 2014 and cryptolntalk in 2019. These five forums are regarded as some of the oldest cryptocurrency forum.

You're approaching this from an account farmer mindset. Believe it or not there are some people that sign up on this forum without ever wanting to join a signature campaign or rank up. They're here to learn about Bitcoin, or whatever. Their merit per post ratio is probably higher than yours, because readers understand their motivations are genuine.

I don't know why people like you can't just give your humble opinion without dragging someone into it. I have observed something and I decided to say it, what is left for you to do is to give your opinion, and not the other way round. I know there are people who registered on the forum just learn and interact with others users. This set of people main earn is not joining signature campaigns. However, they can still join signature campaigns if they want to.

Newbies who are here to farm accounts or rank up as quickly as possible to join a signature campaign should absolutely be discouraged. We are obviously not doing enough to make them uncomfortable because many sections of the forum are still being overrun with shitposts.

My friend not all newbies are here to farm accounts, there are genuine newbies who are struggling to grow on the forum and many of us here can attest to that.  

Newbies who are sincere in their desire to learn or have anything remotely interesting to say will do just fine.

Perfectly said, and I agree with you. However I still see genuine newbies who are struggling to grow.

[Pmalek]

Since the introduction of merits, ranking up requires help from others. Other users must give you merits for you to reach higher ranks. All you had to do in the past was to post...anything you wanted. If the posts remained, you collected activity points and ranked up.

The merit system has drastically changed that. Spammers don't reach high ranks anymore. People with zero knowledge about Bitcoin and this forum won't get many merits. There is nothing wrong with that. The system works. Those who are ready to learn and are capable or reading and writing (you would be surprised how many can't do it properly), will get merits sooner or later. Some will get more, others will get a bit less. But that's the way it is in life. 

[Rikafip]

My friend not all newbies are here to fram accounts, there are genuine newbies who are struggling to grow on the forum and many of us here can attest to that.  

Care to share some of those newbies who are struggling and are stuck, yet they are making quality posts and are contributing to this forum? I mean relatively new members with like 100 activity  and 5 merit.

After all, you don't need to "grow" on forum to be able to do basically everything that other higher ranking members are doing (except maybe making money via signature campaigns).

[lovesmayfamilis]

You didn't search well,OP. Similar topics are raised by people from time to time regularly, but it's strange to see such a topic not from a beginner. Right now, newcomers have every opportunity to rise in rank, and there are a lot of sources of merit on the forum that are literally pouring in merits. You probably know about such topics as push-ups, or various contests where you can show your skills and get merits. And those moments when local merit sources give out merits for very old posts also indicate that they simply have nowhere to put their merits, and they spend them right and left.
Therefore, anyone who wants to will raise their account, and even more than one, and you☝️ probably know who I'm talking about.

[hugeblack]

There are no fundamental differences between newbie and legendary ranks, and almost all the features can be obtained by purchasing the copper rank. Therefore, ranking is only important for those who want to participate in signature campaigns and not for those who want to interact in general.

[LoyceV]

@OP: let me start by saying you're on my Ignore list, just like may other users with the same signature and many users from the same local board. When I look at the oldest pages of your post history, I see this:

generally it is quite easy to spot a spammer posting only for payment. Spam can come in many forms, but a typical spammer's posts will often follow some sort of pattern which will be immediately obvious upon inspection and will usually consist of one or two sentences of rehashed opinion posted as fast as possible with the minimal amount of effort being put in.

It's long enough to look "substantial", but I can't get myself to read it as it's all generic "filler" without adding anything.

What I don't see, is this:

A quality/constructive poster will generally have no pattern to their posting history and will have posts ranging from one word to one sentence to several paragraphs and everything in between and this is what you should be aiming for.

What you call "genuine newbies", makes me think it's just one of many accounts following the exact same pattern.

I remember your name because I'm consistently astounded by how bad your posts are.

I'm amazed 6 people posted before you without noticing this!

nowadays I think that merit system is somewhat failing as there is a surge of shitposter accounts that have no issues reaching higher ranks.

I've noticed this too, and I think it's because of an abundance of Merit on some local boards. For a while now, the Merit system is failing to stop account farmers from ranking up.

that doesn't mean I am still making bad posts presently

I checked some of your recent posts: they're not worth reading.

there are genuine newbies who are struggling to grow on the forum and many of us here can attest to that.

I can think of many different forums on the planet on which I'd be struggling if I joined. I'm not doing that!
The only reason you're "struggling" here, is because you want to earn money, and to do that, you need Merit. Why else would you torture yourself by "struggling" on such a "difficult" forum?

[(BTC)]

So even a statement like this - your opening statement - suggests you haven't learned anything here, yet you've written over 2000 posts.

My opening statement is perfectly fine, after Bitcointalk forum was created there  were five other cryptocurrency forums according to my research that were created namely: Litecointalk in the year 2011, Bitcoin garden in 2013, Cryptocointalk in 2013, altcointalk in 2014 and cryptolntalk in 2019. These five forums are regarded as some of the oldest cryptocurrency forum.

No I think he means you said this forum is "one of the oldest cryptocurrency forums", which is a poor descriptor. Even though it is old at this point, cryptocurrency discussion platforms online have existed long before bitcointalk. To defend the critique of your opening statement, you started listing forums going forward in time. Should have gone backward:

Welcome to the new Bitcoin forum!

The old forum can still be reached here:
http://bitcoin.sourceforge.net/boards/index.php

Anyway, I personally think this forum is not super hard for beginners if:

a) you have a passion for bitcoin
b) you have the drive to learn new shit
c) have the patience to read much of the material that has been posted here before getting your feet wet

I think most users pressure themselves too hard on chasing rankups and merits. It takes the all fun out of it, and the opportunity to learn becomes soiled by alterior motives. Sure, its not wrong to have goals and aspirations to earn income, but it won't happen here if you go about it the wrong way. There are people here that have been here before the newbies of today, and care enough about this place to properly moderate the suspicious activity here as a community. It's important to recognize that before starting IMO, but that characteristic is often missed by new users, and they find themselves shocked when OG's pull up on them when they make a mistake.

[Rikafip]

I've noticed this too, and I think it's because of an abundance of Merit on some local boards. For a while now, the Merit system is failing to stop account farmers from ranking up.

Yep, things escalated last year after theymos introduced a bunch of new merit sources, mainly in the local boards.

I have always been a big supporter of local boards as I think they are an important part of bitcointalk. Unfortunately, some of them became breeding grounds for alt accounts and shitposters after last year's increase in merit sources.

[LoyceV]

~

You must be one of those struggling newbies OP is talking about

@OP: compare your post history with (BTC). Can you spot the difference?

[Doan9269]

This forum is not hard to learn, maybe we will have to admit that some newbies are not interested to stay or to go through the process of learning, everything has been made applicable for us to use as resources needed, then what is stopping them from maximizing the opportunity to discover more that is being said about this who wrong for them to have a good stay, there are rules to follow, same as well as other ethics required on how to post, how many genuine newbies seek through this path aand follow them the right way.

[Joy- maker]

@OP: let me start by saying you're on my Ignore list, just like may other users with the same signature and many users from the same local board. When I look at the oldest pages of your post history, I see this:

This is the internet so everybody is free say whatever they feel like saying. However, you are also in my ignore list for reasons best known to be. You can be good when it comes to technical things, but that doesn't not means you are better than anybody here.

I am glad you brought out the oldest page of my post history, and that was when I newly joined the forum. Also, if you don't mind can you bring out any of my recent posts that are not worth reading?

I am aware that most of the Bitcointalk members worship you like their god, but as for me the last thing I will do is worship a fellow human being because he or she is good at technical things.

You and nultida should grow and let  bygones be bygones.  I can not deny the fact I made bad posts in the past when I first joined the forum. @lovesmayfamilis can attest to this, I am not the kind of person who enjoy lying. When I first joined the forum I was finding it difficult to make my writing readable so I began to use grammar check and @lovesmayfamilis detect one of comment as AI generated and left a neutral tag on my account.

I PM'd her asking why she left a neutral tag on my account because I don't post AI content only use grammar check to make my test readable and she asked me to stop using it and I stopped. When she went back to check my posts she discovered that I am no longer using the grammar check of a thing and she gladly removed the tag. Others may see her as a wicked person, but do not see her that way she a nice person who have dedicated herself in keeping the forum clean.

You can be highly educated but that's mean you are better than me or anyone here. You only know me on the Internet not real life and you can't tell if I am ten times better than you in real life. Bitcointalk is not a place to exercise power as many of see it, let's love one another despite the colour and so on. If you are good in writing and the other users are not good in it as you do, you can  teach them, correct them whenever they make mistakes not mocking them as you guys enjoy doing.