I was wrong about crime, although volatility scares me

[Versatile_choice]

You're making This look as if bitcoin is the only coin that is used for criminal activity, remember our local Fiat can be use for criminal activity as well. It is true that alot of people (scammers) have been using bitcoin as a tool to scam people because they know that it has a high demand, but if you're cautious of what you're doing there's no way they will get to you.

However, I stop visiting telegram lately because I discovered that the rate of criminals/ scammers is way too much over there I know they are everywhere in the social media but it looks like telegram is their zone.

[WilliamCarter]

spot on, tools don't have morals n that, it's all down to how u wield 'em. getting rattled by those tg scams or a sudden price dump is totally normal when u're first starting out since it proper puts the fear up u. long as u zoom out and look at the bigger picture, all that short-term chop stops being such a headache.

[gabbie2010]

spot on, tools don't have morals n that, it's all down to how u wield 'em. getting rattled by those tg scams or a sudden price dump is totally normal when u're first starting out since it proper puts the fear up u. long as u zoom out and look at the bigger picture, all that short-term chop stops being such a headache.

Exactly as a bitcoin newbie if you are not very careful you would get scam by Telegram fraudsters who operate in ring, of course they offered outrageous rate, that is one of the Red flag unfortunately due to greediness many newbies felled into their trap, I mean exchanging bitcoin to fiat transacting via telegram, one of scammers would serves as escrow while thinking that you are dealing with real traders once you sent your coin you would be outrightly blocked and kicked out, those are the scammers and fraudsters who paint bitcoin in a bad light, however there are a lot of bright side in adopting bitcoin particular as a means of investment, transaction purposes, hodling as savings in a wallet instead of saving fiat in a bank, etc I believe all those good features outweighed purpose by which scammers utilized bitcoin to defraud people.

[purple_sparkles]

spot on, tools don't have morals n that, it's all down to how u wield 'em. getting rattled by those tg scams or a sudden price dump is totally normal when u're first starting out since it proper puts the fear up u. long as u zoom out and look at the bigger picture, all that short-term chop stops being such a headache.

Exactly as a bitcoin newbie if you are not very careful you would get scam by Telegram fraudsters who operate in ring, of course they offered outrageous rate, that is one of the Red flag unfortunately due to greediness many newbies felled into their trap, I mean exchanging bitcoin to fiat transacting via telegram, one of scammers would serves as escrow while thinking that you are dealing with real traders once you sent your coin you would be outrightly blocked and kicked out, those are the scammers and fraudsters who paint bitcoin in a bad light, however there are a lot of bright side in adopting bitcoin particular as a means of investment, transaction purposes, hodling as savings in a wallet instead of saving fiat in a bank, etc I believe all those good features outweighed purpose by which scammers utilized bitcoin to defraud people.

In fact, there are quite a lot of scams designed to trick people into giving away their money, even without taking bitcoin into account. Bitcoin, just like any other asset, can also be used for fraud. Some scammers specialize in bitcoin, while others target personal data, which they can use to take out huge amounts of loans in someone else’s name. Others focus on various fiat currency transactions. I think wherever human greed and a moment of carelessness can be exploited, there will always be people who try to profit from it through deception.

[suzanne5223]

spot on, tools don't have morals n that, it's all down to how u wield 'em. getting rattled by those tg scams or a sudden price dump is totally normal when u're first starting out since it proper puts the fear up u. long as u zoom out and look at the bigger picture, all that short-term chop stops being such a headache.

No, it's not normal for a newbie to get scammed in this current Bitcoin season, especially when BTC has reached trillion cap, because we're no longer in the years when people hardly get the right information needed to understand how to use BTC.
Why do i believe it's not normal?
Research shows newbies got scammed due to their inexperience, strong emotions, and social engineering. So, any newbies who took the time to have needed experience on how social engineering is used to scam, how to successfully use a wallet, not be greedy, and also avoid human error while also understanding how scammers operate won't see getting scammed as a normal thing.

[HelliumZ]

Satoshi Nakamoto invented Bitcoin with a noble purpose, but with the passage of time, people have learned to use Bitcoin for different purposes in different ways. Satoshi himself wanted to use Bitcoin as a means of borderless transactions and that is happening now. Even so, if someone uses Bitcoin as a criminal coin, there is nothing to be done. In fact, how Bitcoin is used depends solely on the user. If someone uses Bitcoin for bad purposes or for money laundering, Bitcoin has nothing to do with it. No matter how users use Bitcoin around the world, the purpose of Bitcoin is noble and it will always be considered for the welfare of people.

[Faisal2202]

Concerning the last post, i was just being cautious cause the scams on Telegram with Bitcoin is getting too much out of hand, but I've now learnt that Bitcoin doesn't choose who uses it or what they use it for. Well I'm not going deep into it yet but I'll take it more seriously now I'm convinced that it's a very good alternative  to fiat. Although there are questions on volatility I'll ask later.

I was reading a report on the other forum that, the fact cryptocurrency is used for money laundering is true, but the fact that the most cases reported of them in crypto so far on the interent might be true but why is that's because of the transparency I would answer. The fact that the most of the recoveries of such cases happened in the crypto, why? because of transparency.

So brother, crypto might be used for ML, I am saying crypto that includes everything, but BTC is not even used for ML as ETH is used, you must read what hackers are preferring in the last 6 months hacks, they always converted the stablecoins and other coins into ETH and used some mixers to do their obfuscation but still gets caught.

The transparerncy has made it possible, even after using the mixer the transaction stays onchain, but cash is not on chain and no one can trace it unless they are given some resources from the inside of the system. Most of the ML cases are kept secret and only made public when they think now it won't cause any harm to the leaders or the person with power.

[Nothingtodo]

Bitcoin is not a stable coin like Fiat but it's a store of value, you can choose it as an asset, when you hold for the long term, you will make profits and will understand the essence of volatility, assuming your got some Bitcoin in 2020 and held it till now, you will see the difference between Bitcoin and fait because if you had same amount In fait since then until now, the value must have dropped and inflation caught up with it. Bitcoin value will always increase with respect to time, not for fait.

We are losing confidence in fiat currency every day, especially if we keep money in the bank, the value of that money decreases over time, but if we invest in digital currency or gold instead of keeping money in the bank, then the value will increase over time. Only here can we gain knowledge about the increasing horror of inflation and understand the main difference between digital currency and fiat. I had one million taka ten years ago, but over time, that one million taka is now one million taka, but the price of other things has increased much compared to money. If I had kept gold or bought Bitcoin with one million taka ten years ago, then I would have made a billion times more profit today. This is basically the main difference between fiat and Bitcoin.

[Porfirii]

You're making This look as if bitcoin is the only coin that is used for criminal activity, remember our local Fiat can be use for criminal activity as well. It is true that alot of people (scammers) have been using bitcoin as a tool to scam people because they know that it has a high demand, but if you're cautious of what you're doing there's no way they will get to you.

However, I stop visiting telegram lately because I discovered that the rate of criminals/ scammers is way too much over there I know they are everywhere in the social media but it looks like telegram is their zone.

And not only you have to mention fiat to argument that Bitcoin is not the only means for it, but among cryptocurrencies Monero and Zcash would be much more suitable for it than our pseudonymous Bitcoin. It is true that this pseudonymous nature does not prevent it from being used for such purposes, but why complicate when criminals can use other cryptos originally designed to maintain anonymity?

As for Telegram, just like you, I've pretty much stopped using it, and if it weren't for the notification bot I'd probably uninstall it...

[Myleschetty]

After reading most of the replies i got from my previous topic i'll be honest, some of you have made me rethink my statement. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5586241.msg66855157#msg66855157

"Perfect for laundering" was probably wrong because I just learntt that it wasn't the purpose of Bitcoin creation. Moreover, it's a digital money so anyone can use it including criminals.

If you understand the usefulness of money, you'll easily see that even though it was made for a good purpose, some people will still use it for bad things. Fiat currencies are the best option for money laundering, and blockchain technology can reveal illicit BTC transactions.

Concerning the last post, i was just being cautious cause the scams on Telegram with Bitcoin is getting too much out of hand,

You're not the only person on Telegram, and the large scam/shitcoin group you joined is the reason you're receiving a lot of scam messages.

Although there are questions on volatility I'll ask later.

Ok, but fiat currencies are also volatile. I don't see any need to inquire about the volatility of BTC. What you need is to understand BTC 4 years cycle.

[ArabBTC]

When people say Bitcoin is used by people to commit crimes and probably put the blame on the network, I assume their knowledge of Bitcoin is very limited. Bitcoin does not ask you the reason you're sending money before confirming your transaction, that's one of its most important features. Bitcoin is a permissionless system and as such, will remain neutral regardless of the intentions of users.

It is the responsibility of users and ultimately the legal authorities to make sure it's not used for illicit activities not the protocol itself.

I personally don't think the main concern shouldn't be that criminals can use Bitcoin to perfect their dealings but that newbies are sensitized enough to know more about Bitcoin security and self-custody. That way, scam rates will be drastically reduced.

You are very correct, humans can be funny at times, they will want to blame their mistakes on a particular system or asset, the fact that some scammers use bitcoin as an avenue to perpetrate crime doesn’t mean bitcoin itself is a scam, people need more sensitization about bitcoin transactions so they don’t fall prey to scammers and in the process get a wrong perspective about bitcoin, i always advise people to go for knowledge rather than following popular opinion.

[Dareo]

-snip-

Since Bitcoin has a public ledger in many cases it is possible to analyze the transaction path later using chain analysis, so it is not right to call it completely anonymous. The thing is a bit like A person buys food from a store for $500 and another person uses the same $500 for some illegal activity or buys drugs. The money is the same but the use is different. So would it be reasonable to blame the entire cash system for the second person's actions? Absolutely not.  I think the most important lesson for those who don't know should be learning to recognize self custody and scams prevention.

[MainIbem]

...

You are very correct, humans can be funny at times, they will want to blame their mistakes on a particular system or asset, the fact that some scammers use bitcoin as an avenue to perpetrate crime doesn’t mean bitcoin itself is a scam, people need more sensitization about bitcoin transactions so they don’t fall prey to scammers and in the process get a wrong perspective about bitcoin, i always advise people to go for knowledge rather than following popular opinion.

I wonder when introducing a decentralized monetary system that gives people self custody becomes a crime, Satoshi's intentions for creating Bitcoin was never related with anything crime but for the benefits of the people who were tired of the system the government operated with. It's unfortunate that even cowards (scammers, thieves) who refused to work and earn money also have the opportunity of using it their advantage but it's never Bitcoin's fault that those cowards chose stealing as their model of operation with it.  

[Qhunman]

I wonder when introducing a decentralized monetary system that gives people self custody becomes a crime, Satoshi's intentions for creating Bitcoin was never related with anything crime but for the benefits of the people who were tired of the system the government operated with. It's unfortunate that even cowards (scammers, thieves) who refused to work and earn money also have the opportunity of using it their advantage but it's never Bitcoin's fault that those cowards chose stealing as their model of operation with it.  

People motives isn't known unless when it is put into action. You can't know the exact reason why some people engaged in bitcoin because I believe it is not everyone that is on to bitcoin to make money as they are people who are onto bitcoin to hide the trace's of their crimes. Bitcoin is freedom so it will be difficult to restrict certain kind of people not to used bitcoin because they bad  because the good and the bad have equal rights to use bitcoin and they can use it to satisfy their own selfish interests. Satoshi must have known that people will abuse the use of bitcoin for their selfish interests, majority doesn't use bitcoin to commit  crimes but to make profits and as a store of value.

[knowngunman]

People motives isn't known unless when it is put into action. You can't know the exact reason why some people engaged in bitcoin because I believe it is not everyone that is on to bitcoin to make money as they are people who are onto bitcoin to hide the trace's of their crimes. Bitcoin is freedom so it will be difficult to restrict certain kind of people not to used bitcoin because they bad  because the good and the bad have equal rights to use bitcoin and they can use it to satisfy their own selfish interests. Satoshi must have known that people will abuse the use of bitcoin for their selfish interests, majority doesn't use bitcoin to commit  crimes but to make profits and as a store of value.

No matter how good the system is designed, people will surely look for a way to abuse it for their selfish interest. Bitcoin is initially designed as alternative means of transaction between people without having to rely on third party or central authority but the bad people among us see it as another way to carry out illegal transactions without being traced or identify by the authority. Take a look at our traditional institutions, government itself is now an opportunity for people to enriched themselves and their family instead of working for the people they represent. This forum is also a good example. The merit system was introduced to improve quality posts, merit sources were appointed but some of them abused the privilege given to them for personal interest. The intention behind the creation might be good but you have no control over how people chose to use the system.

[MainIbem]

No matter how good the system is designed, people will surely look for a way to abuse it for their selfish interest. Bitcoin is initially designed as alternative means of transaction between people without having to rely on third party or central authority but the bad people among us see it as another way to carry out illegal transactions without being traced or identify by the authority. Take a look at our traditional institutions, government itself is now an opportunity for people to enriched themselves and their family instead of working for the people they represent. This forum is also a good example. The merit system was introduced to improve quality posts, merit sources were appointed but some of them abused the privilege given to them for personal interest. The intention behind the creation might be good but you have no control over how people chose to use the system.

Bad people can't be stopped from using it cause the intentions of every user is unknown, while some use it to purchase items online others use it to purchase items that would aid their criminal activities. Satoshi has done his best to create a system that gives freedom from government control it's left for everyone to decide to use it for good or bad. Afterall Bitcoin is for everybody so the people who made tbeir choice of using it for bad should be blame and not the coin because it doesn't think for people but they think for themselves. You're spot on with your "merit system" example, that's a perfect example that clearly explains people's choice over Bitcoin.

[macson]

spot on, tools don't have morals n that, it's all down to how u wield 'em. getting rattled by those tg scams or a sudden price dump is totally normal when u're first starting out since it proper puts the fear up u. long as u zoom out and look at the bigger picture, all that short-term chop stops being such a headache.

The scam part is not normal at all. Although beginners are very likely to make mistakes, that does not mean it is normal for them to be scammed by others. Nowadays, there is so much information about Bitcoin security. If they are aware of these risks, they should be able to learn and practice security tips to protect themselves from scammers or anything that could potentially make them lose their assets.

[iBaba]

spot on, tools don't have morals n that, it's all down to how u wield 'em. getting rattled by those tg scams or a sudden price dump is totally normal when u're first starting out since it proper puts the fear up u. long as u zoom out and look at the bigger picture, all that short-term chop stops being such a headache.

The scam part is not normal at all. Although beginners are very likely to make mistakes, that does not mean it is normal for them to be scammed by others. Nowadays, there is so much information about Bitcoin security. If they are aware of these risks, they should be able to learn and practice security tips to protect themselves from scammers or anything that could potentially make them lose their assets.

It is a normal thing for a beginner to make mistakes, but getting scammed should not be seen as something that beginners simply have to experience. There is plenty information available today about scamming, fishing and wallet security. So the important thing is to learn before you put serious money into bitcoin and beginners should take their time, protect their seed phrase, also avoid suspicious links and they should never share private information. A little caution can save someone from losing years of savings.

[Taricoins]

One thing I have come to understand about the opinion of people that don't understand Bitcoin is that they always tend to talk negative and down on it to make themselves feel better for being ignorant and that should not be our reason too. As for the volatility, that shouldn't be a big problem unless you trade on Bitcoin, but as for an investor it doesn't disrupt my end goal.

[AgriTrack]

One thing I have come to understand about the opinion of people that don't understand Bitcoin is that they always tend to talk negative and down on it to make themselves feel better for being ignorant and that should not be our reason too. As for the volatility, that shouldn't be a big problem unless you trade on Bitcoin, but as for an investor it doesn't disrupt my end goal.

Critics are everywhere. There is nothing in this world which doesn't receive criticism at all no matter how good it is. So, Bitcoin is no exception, there will always be some people who would hate it or say it is bad, it is a scam, or whatever they can come up with, they are mostly people with less knowledge, or maybe those who invested money in it and lost money because of their own mistakes because they couldn't control their emotions and sold at a loss, but now they blame Bitcoin for their losses so they try to spread hatred about it everywhere.

Such people might use Bitcoin's volatility as a tool to make it look bad by saying that it is a ponzi scheme, or it is a scam because only the big players make money from it and small fish in the pond will always be eaten, but such arguments are invalid because your profitability in Bitcoin depends on yourself and your ability to control yourself. As soon as you start panicking if you see a downtrend, that is when you start to fail as an investor because then you won't be able to hold for very long.

It's all a game of patience; those who are strong at this are the ones who will win, eventually.