Theymos - where are my PMs?

[Vod]

I sent you a PM a couple days ago about some missing PMs.  You answered that question.

Today while creating my affidavit, I was looking for the PMs I captured in 2020.  

I can only find 37/76 in my inbox - I am missing 39 pms received from a user.
I can only find 38/106 in my outbox - I am missing 68 pms sent to the same user.

From the August 2020 PM export:

Direction	Count
Received FROM *	76
Sent TO *	106
Total involving *	182

I know I did not delete them, and the other user swore he didn't, so what happened to them?  If you want to discuss privately, I can.

[theymos]

Overwhelmingly the most likely is that you just deleted them and forgot.

The next most likely is that your account was hacked by someone who wanted to delete them. I could give you your geolocation logs going back 6 years if you wanted to look into that.

There's less than a 1% probability of some forum issue. Nobody else is reporting missing PMs, and this is not an area that is touched by many people/systems.

PMs are permanently deleted from the database (and from all backups after ~6 months) when the sender and all recipients delete them. Note that the "save a copy in my outbox" option is off by default, which makes it more likely that senders "delete" their outgoing PMs. If the sender or one recipient didn't delete them, then they'll still be in the database, and I could still undelete them on request.

[icopress]

I could give you your geolocation logs going back 6 years if you wanted to look into that.

Do you store this data for 6 years only in cases where the user has not adjusted personal settings?

You can also enable limited retention in your settings if you consider your IP logs to be very sensitive, [...]

[tbct_mt2]

I could give you your geolocation logs going back 6 years if you wanted to look into that.

Do you store this data for 6 years only in cases where the user has not adjusted personal settings?

It's an old topic: Retention/ privacy info.

It is described at https://bitcointalk.org/privacy.php and 6-year storage of city geolocation is with normal retention in user's privacy setting. If user chose Limited retention, the storage time reduced to only 3 months.

IP address retention works in this way:
Thing   Normal retention   Limited retention   Retention for guests
Full IP   6 months   3 months   A few weeks
Partial IP   2 years   N/A   N/A
City geolocation   6 years   3 months   N/A

You can opt into limited retention in your account settings. This will apply only to logs created after you change the setting, and doing so will make it much more difficult for you to recover your account if it is ever lost.

[mindrust]

Overwhelmingly the most likely is that you just deleted them and forgot.

The next most likely is that your account was hacked by someone who wanted to delete them. I could give you your geolocation logs going back 6 years if you wanted to look into that.

There's less than a 1% probability of some forum issue. Nobody else is reporting missing PMs, and this is not an area that is touched by many people/systems.

PMs are permanently deleted from the database (and from all backups after ~6 months) when the sender and all recipients delete them. Note that the "save a copy in my outbox" option is off by default, which makes it more likely that senders "delete" their outgoing PMs. If the sender or one recipient didn't delete them, then they'll still be in the database, and I could still undelete them on request.

Oooor...

We go by MY theory.

Which is the ugliest theory of all

You thermos entered Mr. Vod's account and deleted the PM's because your buttbuddy OG was in trouble.

That's as far as I got how am I doin?



Yo, Don't anybody dare to take that post seriously.

[The Cryptovator]

PMs are permanently deleted from the database (and from all backups after ~6 months) when the sender and all recipients delete them. Note that the "save a copy in my outbox" option is off by default, which makes it more likely that senders "delete" their outgoing PMs. If the sender or one recipient didn't delete them, then they'll still be in the database, and I could still undelete them on request.

Don't you have data that the PM had been deleted by users, the sender, or the receiver? PM won't be lost automatically if it's not deleted by default or by users/admins. I mean, it's fine if someone deleted the PM, but forum logs should be available to show the data of how it was deleted. Although this is not a serious issue, having forum logs would help in such a situation. You can simply answer perfectly how it was deleted.

[Vod]

Overwhelmingly the most likely is that you just deleted them and forgot.

Theymos, I haven't deleted a single PM.    My account was never hacked.  Those PMs were there a week ago.

I could give you your geolocation logs going back 6 years if you wanted to look into that.

Actually, my lawyer will probably get a warrant for that database and backups so we can look ourselves.  You are no longer trustworthy.

Although this is not a serious issue, having forum logs would help in such a situation.

It's very serious, he needs those logs.   How much you want to bet Theymos will play Trump?

Statute	Conduct	Maximum Penalty
18 U.S.C. § 1519	Knowingly altering, destroying, mutilating, concealing, or falsifying any record, document, or tangible object with intent to impede, obstruct, or influence a federal investigation or bankruptcy proceeding.	Up to 20 years imprisonment, fines, or both.
18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)	Corruptly altering, destroying, mutilating, or concealing a record, document, or other object with intent to impair its integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding.	Up to 20 years imprisonment.
18 U.S.C. § 1503	Corruptly endeavoring to influence, obstruct, or impede a pending federal judicial proceeding (the "Omnibus Clause").	Up to 10 years imprisonment.

[OgNasty]

Oooor...

We go by MY theory.

Which is the ugliest theory of all

You thermos entered Mr. Vod's account and deleted the PM's because your buttbuddy OG was in trouble.

That's as far as I got how am I doin?



Yo, Don't anybody dare to take that post seriously.

Which one am I?

[Vod]

Which one am I?

You would be the one defending your thousands of edits after being served.  18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)
https://nastyfans.org/mint

Overwhelmingly the most likely is that you just deleted them and forgot.

I understand your reasoning now.   I'm mentally ill, unable to remember things I did a few days ago.  

Theymos - are you looking into the logs to see what happened to the PMs?  Would it help if I produced a list of PM subjects and dates that were deleted?

[Mia Chloe]

~snip.

Initially I was thinking there would be some sorts of archive on your end for all deleted pms probably encrypted if possible I'm guessing it won't take much space because most of it should be texts actually.

~snip

Based on what Theymos has said, is there a chance you can reach out to the user to forward those PMs to you once again because from your explanation it seems it happened to just one users PM.

Do you store this data for 6 years only in cases where the user has not adjusted personal settings?

I'm not sure it's within a limited time span. I'm guessing the forum has it like a historic log for all users. However on our end we are only exposed to seeing just  the last 30 days.

[Ambatman]

Okay had to go check my Pms and they seem intact not that I have anything impressive there.
And from what Theymos stated since you said you saw it a week ago
There's a possibility to undelete it as its within the 6 months mark.

[Mia Chloe]

Okay had to go check my Pms and they seem intact not that I have anything impressive there.
And from what Theymos stated since you said you saw it a week ago
There's a possibility to undelete it as its within the 6 months mark.

I'm guessing Vod should be talking a couple years not months. Plus if he had a couple other PM's sent to some other users within that same period and suddenly all sent to a particular user is missing they Theymos' theory of a hack case might just be it. As far as I can remember they don't auto delete by default.

Also I just got to think of vod has been making use of tor all this while, how would you be able to differentiate if his account was hacked via the IP log history?

[theymos]

Those PMs were there a week ago.

I strongly doubt that. I just checked the backups, and there are no PMs to/from you which exist in any PM backups but not in the live database. So I am 99.9% sure that any missing PMs were deleted by all parties prior to the oldest backup from ~6 months ago.

You are of course free not to trust me.

Theymos - are you looking into the logs to see what happened to the PMs?  Would it help if I produced a list of PM subjects and dates that were deleted?

You can send them to me and I'll see if they're in your inbox and you're just not finding them, but if not, there aren't really any additional logs to look into. We obviously don't log subjects of PMs deleted from the database -- that'd be a privacy disaster.

You say that you saw the PMs a few days ago. If this was more recent than roughly June 15 and you find the URLs in your browser history, I could give you the corresponding server access logs, though whether or not this would actually show anything useful is unclear, since the only data logged about the response is the status code and size.

Don't you have data that the PM had been deleted by users, the sender, or the receiver?

SMF doesn't log the time of a deletion, and it'd probably be a greater privacy cost than a usefulness benefit to add it.

Do you store this data for 6 years only in cases where the user has not adjusted personal settings?

Of course.

[Vod]

Theymos, I have no idea why you decided to involve yourself in a civil lawsuit, but your actions are very serious.   You can speak with OgNasty about the legal actions that were taken today if you feel you are smarter than the auditors.  

I strongly doubt that. I just checked the backups, and there are no PMs to/from you which exist in any PM backups but not in the live database. So I am 99.9% sure that any missing PMs were deleted by all parties prior to the oldest backup from ~6 months ago.

You are of course free not to trust me.

You're not 100% sure?  You've already mocked my deleting them and forgetting about it.  You'll have your chance to defend the emergency injunction, if you choose to.    You may want to hire a criminal lawyer.

I'm done with words about this.

[Shishir99]

You're not 100% sure?  You've already mocked my deleting them and forgetting about it.  You'll have your chance to defend the emergency injunction, if you choose to.   You may want to hire a criminal lawyer.

I'm done with words about this.

Aren't you tired of threatening everyone?
I always thought you were a smart guy. It seems you are getting mentally unstable. You have been repeatedly changing the title of your reputation thread and updating your thread about OgNasty for months. You have been playing tough by leaving negative feedback on theymos for a while. You had fights with BitcoinGirl.Club as well a few months ago. I thought it had some kind of ending. But I was wrong. It seems you are too bored with your life and have nothing to have fun. You seem to be enjoying doing this thing on the internet lately. Don't you think you are wasting time and resources on nothing? Why would the forum admins delete your private messages? Do they have any benefits? Don't you think forum members have had enough of it already?

[theymos]

Here's another way of showing you that your claim of 107 PMs being deleted in the last week is false:

In the server access logs, I see that the largest inbox offset you requested since the oldest available logs on June 15 was 5740 on June 20:
[20/Jun/2026:20:56:10 +0000] "GET /index.php?action=pm;f=inbox;start=5740;sort=name; HTTP/1.1"
And the largest outbox offset you requested was 3820 on June 20:
[20/Jun/2026:20:57:44 +0000] "GET /index.php?action=pm;f=outbox;start=3820;sort=name; HTTP/1.1"

When you click the headers to sort by name, you will automatically go to the largest offset like that. And because that is the highest offset you saw, you definitely didn't see any more PMs than that. If you would've seen more PMs, you would've had a higher offset number.

You are able to independently verify this by looking at your browser history. That isn't something I could fabricate. Just go into your browser history and verify that you didn't see a higher f=inbox/outbox;start= number in the last week.

Just from the fact that the highest offset you saw were those values, you can know that on June 20 you had a total of 5740-5760 PMs in your inbox and 3820-3840 PMs in your outbox. In fact, you had exactly 5750 PMs in your inbox and 3821 PMs in your outbox at those access-log times, and I can list every single one of them if you want, all of which are in the database now and visible to you. This should prove to you that no more than a maximum of 29 of your PMs were deleted since you scanned through your PMs on June 20. (And in actual fact, zero of your PMs were deleted in the past ~6 months.)

[Vod]

One more thing, "sir",

BitcoinTalk's privacy policy states that messages with staff will may never be deleted.   Did you accidently delete the ones related to OgNasty and just forgot?   Is that why you've called me a liar but not put it in my trust as of the time of this post?

Metric	August 2020	June 2026	Missing
FROM Theymos	94	59	73
TO Theymos	138	83	108
Total Theymos PMs	232	142	181