Dutch tax refugee: which country to move to?

[fillippone]

Which lump sum?

See this post.

This is an overkill. You can happily be taxed on regular Swiss rate.

If you declare your Bitcoin in Holland and move them to Switzerland, no taxes are required.

I'm actually not so sure about that: if I move to country that taxes realized gains, I should probably realize the gains before moving. So sell and buy back.

I don’t think Switzerland taxes Bitcoin capital gains. Seek advice.

I meant YOU can commute, not on a daily basis ofc, leaving the family in Holland.

I'm not moving to a different country without my family. That's just not practical, even if it would work out well financially (on paper).

Understandable. Last idea: you might move the Bitcoin now, and phisically follow later. Good way of hodling 20+ years, when kids will be grown.

[LoyceV]

Last idea: you might move the Bitcoin now, and phisically follow later. Good way of hodling 20+ years, when kids will be grown.

That's not possible: I'm currently taxed based on what I own, it doesn't change if I say "my Bitcoins are not in this country".

[LoyceV]

Taxes
In the new Dutch 2028 tax plans, we'll pay 36% tax on annual unrealized gains.

So, there's an update. This is the current (new) plan for 2028:

Wie crypto’s in zijn eigen wallet heeft staan, gaat belasting moeten betalen op winst hierop, óók als die winst nog niet is verzilverd. Dat geld moet je dus wel hebben liggen. Wie crypto’s heeft via een bank of een reguliere beleggingsrekening, betaalt vanaf 2028 alleen als de winst wordt verzilverd.

Basically, you'll still be taxed (36%) on unrealized gains if you keep your coins in your own wallet. But if you "have" them in an investment account, you'll only be taxed when you sell them.
Please hand over your Bitcoins to Blackrock. That's what it boils down to.

[mindrust]

Taxes
In the new Dutch 2028 tax plans, we'll pay 36% tax on annual unrealized gains.

So, there's an update. This is the current (new) plan for 2028:

Wie crypto’s in zijn eigen wallet heeft staan, gaat belasting moeten betalen op winst hierop, óók als die winst nog niet is verzilverd. Dat geld moet je dus wel hebben liggen. Wie crypto’s heeft via een bank of een reguliere beleggingsrekening, betaalt vanaf 2028 alleen als de winst wordt verzilverd.

Basically, you'll still be taxed on unrealized gains if you keep your coins in your own wallet. But if you "have" them in an investment account, you'll  only be taxed when you sell them.
Please hand over your Bitcoins to Blackrock. That's what it boils down to.

That's a pretty legit reason to tell them to go fuck themselves. Especially if you are hodling meaningful amount of coins... Otherwise? Not sure if it is worth switching countries.

Also there is another way...

You can, just tell them to go fuck themselves by not reporting your crypto hodlings. I know Europeans are mostly cowards (no offense) who are afraid of the authorities as if they were gods but there is always that way.

If you get caught and they try to send you to prison, arm up before they do and take a couple of them down before you go down. Do the Murican way. When enough people follow the same idea, they'll eventually give up. Happened before in Europe during Renaissance. They will continue being retards only if you keep letting them.

"You wanna take my coins;? Send your best bitchez, I've got something to give them too."

Yeeehaww

[LoyceV]

You can, just tell them to go fuck themselves by not reporting your crypto hodlings. I know Europeans are mostly cowards (no offense) who are afraid of the authorities as if they were gods but there is always that way.

There's a problem with that:

I pay my taxes on crypto so I can legally use my crypto when I want to in the future.

If you get caught and they try to send you to prison, arm up before they do and take a couple of them down before you go down. Do the Murican way. When enough people follow the same idea, they'll eventually give up. Happened before in Europe during Renaissance.

People just accept almost everything here. Life's still too good to risk it all.

So leaving the country is still the only legal option. I really hate how this makes me feel: my own government is making me choose: leave my own country, or let them take everything I own in the long run. You will own nothing and be happy fucked.

Short answer? Germany! Probably the only other real option left in the EU that will not be that much different to your lifestyle, Denmark is a no-go tax-wise.

The problem is the language, that would be a huge setback for all of us. English is so much easier.
For taxes Germany could be interesting indeed: although the capital gains tax is about 25%, Bitcoin is mostly tax free. But I don't expect that to last, and I wouldn't be surprised if they change that faster than I can learn German.

From what I can find online, crypto will be taxed at normal rates (26.4% if you keep it for a year) in Germany starting next year. BUT: it looks like gains on "old" coins will still be taxed free, even in the far future! That would actually make it a very interesting option: I don't really need to speculate on buying and selling, just HODL is enough for me.

[Lucius]

Maybe someone has already asked, but can you avoid taxes in the country where you live now if you move to another country and live there for x years? If in this particular case Bitcoin was purchased/acquired in country A, can it be taxed in country B under more favorable conditions?

I don't know if anyone has mentioned Croatia, but when it comes to taxes on cryptocurrencies, the situation is as follows: the tax is paid if you sell within 2 years of purchase, and then the tax is 10% with a small additional special tax according to the county where the person lives. Tax is not paid if the cryptocurrency is sold 2+ years after purchase.

As for the language, the majority of the population knows English because it is taught in primary schools. As for the quality of life, it depends on the region, some will choose to live by the sea, others prefer mountainous areas, while still others will find their place in the lowlands of continental Croatia.

John Malkovich filmed a video last summer, says he likes it --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Uqg1va_pI

[LoyceV]

Maybe someone has already asked, but can you avoid taxes in the country where you live now if you move to another country and live there for x years?

There's no "exit tax", if that's what you're asking. So if I leave, I stop paying taxes here.

If in this particular case Bitcoin was purchased/acquired in country A, can it be taxed in country B under more favorable conditions?

For most countries, I think I'd have to realize my gains before moving. Here, that's still not taxed. But if I'd move to another country, chances are my cost base will reset to what it was years ago. So selling and buying back I think, which is annoying to do.

Tax is not paid if the cryptocurrency is sold 2+ years after purchase.

That would work to avoid paying taxes.
In the new Dutch system, I'd expect them to start implementing exit taxes soon, just like more and more other countries are doing. So if you leave, you'll pay taxes as if you've realized all your gains.

[fillippone]

If in this particular case Bitcoin was purchased/acquired in country A, can it be taxed in country B under more favorable conditions?

For most countries, I think I'd have to realize my gains before moving. Here, that's still not taxed. But if I'd move to another country, chances are my cost base will reset to what it was years ago. So selling and buying back I think, which is annoying to do.

Sorry to come back to my solution.
If you move to Switzerland, you don't have to realize gains. You can move your bitcoins without selling and buying back. As long as those bitcoins are legit and legally declared (those are two separate things) in your original country, it's fine to move them there without offramping.  No cost reset.

[atookz]

Sorry to come back to my solution.
If you move to Switzerland, you don't have to realize gains. You can move your bitcoins without selling and buying back. As long as those bitcoins are legit and legally declared (those are two separate things) in your original country, it's fine to move them there without offramping.  No cost reset.

A good point in regard to Switzerland. If I understand correctly, there's no cost basis reset simply because private investors don't pay capital gains tax there, so cost basis doesn't really matter. No need to sell and rebuy, nice.

But it's not totally tax free tho. Cantons charge wealth tax on whatever you hold on Dec 31, so your BTC still counts, and the rate depends on which canton you pick. The canton determines whether you are a "private investor", and if you trade too much, you could lose the exemption. Mining/staking income is also subject to taxes.

For those who are interested:
https://www.deloitte.com/ch/en/services/tax/blogs/swiss-taxation-of-cryptocurrencies--how-are-investors-taxed.html
https://cms.law/en/int/expert-guides/cms-expert-guide-on-taxation-of-crypto-assets/switzerland

I believe that the actual issue with OP is the language and kids. Swiss has German, French and Italian speaking regions, they would still have to learn a new language. I'm not quite sure about Dutch nationals either, does anyone have any idea what the rules are?

Perhaps it would be worth considering asking a Swiss tax advisor which canton has the best wealth tax rate before deciding.

[cryptofrka]

Sorry, just saw this while briefly checking your posts.
Didn't feel like reading all of the posts so maybe this was answered..

I see Croatia being mentioned by Lucius. The main question for me here is - do you plan/need to work?

If yes, Croatia might not be a great option. Salaries are shit, stuff is expensive, good jobs are hard to find. When you find them, you're dealing with assholes 90% of the time.
If no, move here instantly. Food is (still) great, people are (still) nice, the immigration wave didn't hit us hard, weather is perfect throughout most of the year. Buy a flat in Zagreb and an appartment on the coast and switch based on holidays for kids.

If 50-50, still move here. Buy a house on the coast, do tourism, all you need for it is English and you're your own boss. Investments can still be paid off in ~15 years or so, and it can be a family business in perpetuity.

Taxes are ok, everybody in Croatia speaks English, kids will probably want to study abroad anyway.

[ultrloa]

If in this particular case Bitcoin was purchased/acquired in country A, can it be taxed in country B under more favorable conditions?

For most countries, I think I'd have to realize my gains before moving. Here, that's still not taxed. But if I'd move to another country, chances are my cost base will reset to what it was years ago. So selling and buying back I think, which is annoying to do.

Sorry to come back to my solution.
If you move to Switzerland, you don't have to realize gains. You can move your bitcoins without selling and buying back. As long as those bitcoins are legit and legally declared (those are two separate things) in your original country, it's fine to move them there without offramping.  No cost reset.

And I think this is good reference towards that statement you have said https://swissfinancemarket.ch/en/fiscalite-crypto-suisse-2026-afc-bitcoin

This is good site to look which countries could possibly give him much higher take home https://dual.tax/rankings/dutch

Also if you scroll down you can see the comparison of tax comparison on each countries.

[LoyceV]

The main question for me here is - do you plan/need to work?

I don't think I'll move to a country that's cheap enough to never work again, so yes.

This is good site to look which countries could possibly give him much higher take home

The comparison can be a few thousand per year off: it doesn't include additional costs, like mandatory health insurance. In some countries it's included in the taxes already.