Some things need to be abolished

[In_cu_bent]

I don't know if this place is the right board to post but if it is not, pardon me and let the mods do their jobs.

Things that have led to conflicts and disagreement among people are: tribalism, religion, politics, racism, war, to mention a few.

I was going through the politics and society section of the forum and I saw a thread titled "Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]'' and I saw many loggerheads between forum members. Jeez, this is a forum for Christ sake so why all these attacks on each other?

I know that the Internet is a free place for anyone to say anything but I understand this forum to be bitcoin discussion forum which should be for mostly discussions in that regard so I wonder why people can go extreme with harsh words on one another.

Nobody likes the fact that the war between Russia and Ukraine is still ongoing after about 4 years but should we transfer the bombings and attacks from both countries into the forum?

I know that this is a free forum where there are not many restrictions but you see those things I listed earlier, they cause disintegration among people. 

My suggestion is that discussions about wars between two or more countries, world politics, religion and racism should be abolished or banned such that when a topic that will lead to heated arguments is made, the moderators can trash that topic.

Here is an example of what am talking about, they are many that I read but I don't have the strength to be copying and pasting them all.

4 years into the war, the West spent over half a trillion on Ukraine, (at the minimum) hundreds of thousands in Ukrainian casualties, and Ukraine is still retreating. And that's all with full mobilization in Ukraine and no mobilization in Russia. I just don't understand why would anyone cheer for a "large mobilization of people in Russia will start in the fall.". If Ukraine can't even hold a village under current conditions, we can all imagine what will happen to Ukraine if Russia does do a large mobilization. You really do want this to go to the last Ukrainian, don't you? I guess if you're in EU, disregarding Ukrainian losses only to make Russia pay a bit more, unfortunately kinda does make sense  

You and your butchers just fool yourselves as much as you want and believe the lies of your crazy emperor that you will kill all Ukrainians, and then I guess liberate Western Europe from Nazism. General mobilization in Russia means that you and other keyboard warriors will get a chance to show how much you believe in all that nonsense you write everywhere - unless you've already fled Mother Russia and are hiding under a rock hoping they won't find you.

Instead of bragging about the possible capture of a village after years of fighting, you'd better look up at the sky from time to time, because Ukraine will continue to attack all the key infrastructure in Russia and it has every right to do so. You and those like you who defend the aggression against Ukraine so wholeheartedly are in the rank of the biggest human garbage that exists in this world and deserve only the worst that can happen to you.

[_act_]

Politics and society discussions are good. If you do not want anyone to against you, just do not post about war or anything someone will angrily against you on the board.

I do not like to discuss about it just because I do not want people to know my mind about the war and no one come after me. It is very simple as that.

I just wish the war should end.

Humans are very bad.

I do not know the reason humans like war right from olden time till now, there has always been wars, both within countries and between countries.

[PrivacyG]

My suggestion is that discussions about wars between two or more countries, world politics, religion and racism should be abolished or banned such that when a topic that will lead to heated arguments is made, the moderators can trash that topic.

We are not in kinder garden so I do not understand why you would want a heated argument to be immediately hidden away.  Parental Control and content filter is intended for children!

Too many Members take things way too seriously, way too personal on a website where you can say what ever you want.  I could insult you right now, it does not mean you have to break your monitor out of anger or burst at your family and have a bad day!  It is the Internet, expect all things from best to worst!

You visited the 'Politics & Society' Board, how did you expect Bitcoin related discussions?  After all, this is particularly why we have off topic, locals, politics, speculation et cetera.  To split Topics based on subjects of discussion so if you want Bitcoin discussions, go to the 'Bitcoin Discussions' Board!  Now it would be a silly thing to expect no arguments on the Russia versus Ukraine war Topic, you can reply whether you are supporting Russia or Ukraine and if there comes a day where we are not allowed to talk because we come from Russia or what the 'wrong side' is considered at the time, I will be OUT as I do not need tape around my mouth!  If I wanted tape around it, I would go to any of the Social Media platforms out there and try to speak my mind!

And at the end of the day.  If you reply to that Topic insulting the 'adversary' then expect a heated argument in response.  I generally try to prevent my self from writing any anger filled reply as it never does any good any way.  If you want proof for that, visit the Reputation section of this Forum a little bit and you will be convinced too!

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Why ban something across the whole forum just because a couple of hotheads can't keep their emotions in check behind the keyboards?
The best thing to do is press the ignore button on such users or even the board, and you will have a different view of the forum and not their harsh exchanges.

Another option is to grow some thick skin, and those replies won't bother you. I will quote this

Who cares if some internet stranger that doesn't know who exactly you are or how you live your life left a few bytes of insults on a forum?

Surprisingly, most of the time such users end up in the Reputations board complaining about how mean the other party was to them or something along those lines.

[rat03gopoh]

Isn't this forum great because it accommodates all people's motivations in one place? It's like I have 2 citizenships simultaneously, and here I can freely speak, censor any content that isn't good for me, no fees, no taxes, no KYC. Just treat btctalk like your own home.
There are some people who truly feed off of conflicts and disagreements; perhaps they wouldn't have that right in their own country. If it were to be abolished, where else would such people live in "comfort?". Your best option is to exclude that board.

Bitcoin discussions have their own section, by the way.

[Ultegra134]

There is an abundance of sections in this forum, covering a wide range of topics, from politics, to economics, to completely off topic subjects etc. A forum solely discussing about Bitcoin would eventually go stale and falls under what the other users already mentioned, the freedom of discussing whatever you want; something you can't do freely on social media for example. The forum is fine as it is already, you'll find much worse arguments than the one you posted in several other "appropriate" Bitcoin discussions.

[MarryWithBTC]

xxx
I know that the Internet is a free place for anyone to say anything but I understand this forum to be bitcoin discussion forum which should be for mostly discussions in that regard so I wonder why people can go extreme with harsh words on one another.

Dude, you did not only visit the Politics and Society thread, you visited the Russia inversion of Ukraine thread. How then do you expect to see discussion about bitcoin there?

This forum houses people of different countries, races, religions and interests. If you are interested in wars, visit that thread and deal with it. I haven't visited that thread because it doesn't interest me, so I don't see any problems with it.

My suggestion is that discussions about wars between two or more countries, world politics, religion and racism should be abolished or banned such that when a topic that will lead to heated arguments is made, the moderators can trash that topic.

I disagree, freedom of speech is better. We shouldn't only like freedom of speech when we feel the speech is pleasant.

[Churchillvv]

Freedom of speech, freedom to write, freedom to expression and fair opinion! Freedom freedom freedom!! That’s the anchor point of Bitcointalk. No one will hide their face or opinions because some disagrees, we disagree to agree but however some guys are not emotionally intelligent to differentiate themselves from the forum identity they portray the hate they have in them through writing and that cannot be stopped. Whatever you want you can say as long as it’s not against the rules. If anyone is offended creates and counter the opinion. Nobody’s freedom of expression should be restricted because others don’t agree with the opinion.

[PX-Z]

Politics and society discussions are good. If you do not want anyone to against you, just do not post about war or anything someone will angrily against you on the board.

Right? People tend to be biased toward their own beliefs, and everyone has the right to think that way. It's part of human nature. That's why discussions about politics and war are often exhausting, since emotions, personal views, and strong opinions usually dominate the conversation.

[SeriouslyGiveaway]

My suggestion is that discussions about wars between two or more countries, world politics, religion and racism should be abolished or banned such that when a topic that will lead to heated arguments is made, the moderators can trash that topic.

It's not a new thing, not new in Bitcoin forum, and not new on the Internet, not new in real life too.

Just grow up your thick skin especially online.

It's also not a first time a forum member discuss about it.
Be polite rule should be added to the forum rules.

its the internet. rudeness is a feature, not a bug

LoyceV and the following personal text.

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

[EFS]

You can't expect everyone to think the same or express themselves the same way. People can react differently to sensitive topics. Nobody's posts get deleted just because of their tone. If they really bother you, you can always ignore those users so you won't see what they write. If you're here for only Bitcoin, you don't have to go to the Politics & Society section. Most users don't even look at that board.

This forum is one of the few places where free speech is fully embraced. Don't expect restrictions on something like this. That's never going to happen.

[Zlantann]

Some people responding in that thread might have lost family members, close friends, and associates because of this war. Some have lost property, businesses, and other sources of income due to the destruction and disruption caused by this war. Therefore, some of their reactions might stem from pain, frustration, and agony.

Seeing civilians, especially children and women, suffer in the media is so frustrating that one might be forced to insult or curse those who support a particular country. You have to understand that people are not happy and could express it in so many ways.

So you should avoid the thread if you are not comfortable with the discussions.

[Silikiem]

Freedom of speech, freedom to write, freedom to expression and fair opinion! Freedom freedom freedom!! That’s the anchor point of Bitcointalk. No one will hide their face or opinions because some disagrees, we disagree to agree but however some guys are not emotionally intelligent to differentiate themselves from the forum identity they portray the hate they have in them through writing and that cannot be stopped. Whatever you want you can say as long as it’s not against the rules. If anyone is offended creates and counter the opinion. Nobody’s freedom of expression should be restricted because others don’t agree with the opinion.

Moreover, different topics are being brought up in the forum for discussion and debates, you don’t just expect users to see a topic of interest to them and keep quiet, although few members may decide to discuss to a certain extent and not go too raw and extreme with their discussion. But above all, whatever that’s being discussed here in the forum can either make or break a society because there are highly distinguished individual users who attracts some kind of audience so it’s better we channel every discussion into a meaningful conversation that will further bring about positive outcomes.

[libert19]

I liked topic, responses too, one of those threads where responses didn't feel repititive.

[LoyceV]

My suggestion is that discussions about wars between two or more countries, world politics, religion and racism should be abolished or banned such that when a topic that will lead to heated arguments is made, the moderators can trash that topic.

You start from the assumption that heated arguments are a bad thing. If you don't like it, just don't read it.

To safe myself from typing a lot, allow me to quote myself on the imporance of freedom of speech:

I find these statements deeply offensive

That's okay. You're free to feel offended whenever you choose to do so.

and contrary to the values that this forum is built on.

That's not at all what this forum is about:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible

This is not the first time I see people advocate for less freedom and more rules. Not only here, many people do the same in real life. But they don't realize those freedoms are lost forever once they're gone.

If this type of behavior is allowed in this forum, then here will be turned into another racism breading ground.

I've seen these discussions long before you joined, and the longer I'm here, the more I appreciate theymos' stance on the subject: freedom of speech above censorship.

To quote myself on the subject:

Use the Ignore button, problem solved. You can't possible expect everyone on the internet to be nice to you.
This forum gives users the freedom to be as rude as they want, just like it gives anyone else the freedom to be as nice as they want. Enjoy the freedom to choose your style, but let others enjoy the same freedom.

I have no problem with anyone's style as long as it's not pointing me.

Well, then that's your problem. It's simple as that. I would have started this sentence with "I'm sorry to say, ....", but then I realized that would go against the point I'm trying to make. Hurting someone's feelings is allowed. Grow a thicker skin, and stop caring. It's really that simple.
Who cares, you don't know the person, you don't have to meet him, and yet, you choose to read his posts while you can easily ignore them at the click of a button! Why make yourself suffer for something that can only get worse if you give it more attention?

I'm usually quite polite on Bitcointalk, up to the point where the Cat and now others started calling me Switzerland. But I highly appreciate the freedom to not be polite if someone wants to. Your hurt feelings don't take away someone else's right to say what he wants.

Bitcointalk offers more freedom than any other forum I know. You can choose to be an asshole or you can be a nice person. It's entirely up to you how you want to come across. If you're a snowflake, you might get offended. That's okay.

So what?

The only right answer

Discrimination and racism is all part of freedom of speech. You can't have freedom of speech without someone else having the same freedom, and as I once read: freedom of speech is especially necessary for controversial subjects! You don't need freedom of speech to say bunnies are fluffy.
So if someone wants to discriminate: let them! Use ignore if you want, discuss with them, try to change their mind (as if that's ever worked on the internet) or just move on with your day. Who cares what an anonymous person on the internet says? See my personal text to see how much I care.

Besides, as long as hell doesn't freeze over, you can have any race, nationality or gender you want on Bitcointalk. There's an attack helicopter as Global Moderator, that's all fine

How about if the admin filter some keywords(foul words), such that when you use them, you will be handed ban.

It's always amazing how people volunteer to give up the freedoms they've been given. It's truely scary, not only online but also in real life.
Bitcointalk is the only forum I know that allows freedom of speech. If you don't like it, go to SJW forum.

What the f*ck, do you think censoring *BEEP* is going to make the forum any better? I miss TMAN, go read Poetry, by TMAN.

If I'm offended by someone online, it means I am doing something wrong by being offended by someone or I did something wrong to attract an attack on me?

If you choose to be offended by something an anonymous person says on the big mean internet, you're doing something wrong. Why would you choose to give someone such power over you?

What is your understanding of freedom of speech? Do you know that there is an unofficial rule that says "No trolling?". If freedom of speech is what you think it is, why will such a rule apply?

Calling an idiot an idiot is not trolling. A bit more context:

However, trolling isn't allowed. If a user is habitually posting obviously false nonsense ("obviously false nonsense" to an outsider, NOT to someone who follows or is involved in the discussion) just to stir up trouble, then it's considered trolling, which is prohibited. Such cases should be thoroughly documented in the report though (There are tons of reports that just say "trolling", but moderators don't have time to look through each user's post).

To quote myself on the subject:

Just recently, I saw several posts saying: "I hope I'm not offending anyone", and it's been on my mind for a while now.

I only recently realized why this is so common in English. In Dutch, "offended" and "insulted" are the same word ("beledigd"). But lately, it seems like people treat the word "offending" as if it's "insulting".
I'd say insulting isn't needed and makes you look bad, but being offended is a choice of the receiver, and honestly I'm offended by people who want to limit their own freedom of speech out of fear that someone might get his feelings hurt on the internet! Oh noes!

It's okay to offended people! Offensive jokes are often funny. Don't let SJW decide what you're allowed to say or even think!

Trying to be nice doesn't hurt you, but don't let someone's made up feelings stop you from speaking your mind.

I can't agree with you. You can also gently criticize a person. To insult is only to insult, nothing more. And it is not right to talk about freedom of expression while insulting a person.

I am insulted by the very fact that you think you can have freedom of speech without being allowed to insult someone. So by your own definition you're not allowed to say that!
Luckily for you, you actually have the right to say pretty much anything you want on this forum. And as a Thick-Skinned Gang Leader, I can handle anything you throw at me.

For example, I insulted you and you did it to me. What's the matter here? What did the forum gain from this? When viewed from the outside, the forum is seen as a place where racism, neopotism and swearing are falling.

It's the internet, I couldn't care less about your race. You can claim to be a Smurf if you want too. It can't be checked anyway, so why do you even care?
I think I'm usually pretty friendly, and I usually don't try very hard to insult people. But I can understand why others do that, and I highly value their right to do so. If someone, especially in an anonymous environment, treats others badly, it tells you a lot about them. But how you handle it says a lot about you.

Don't you really see these kinds of statements make the forum look bad?

No. It's what makes this forum great and unique! If you don't like it, you may want to go to a heavily censored SJW forum where your fragile feelings are protected. Bitcoin is about freedom, and you can't have freedom to say what you want without other people having the same freedom to say what they want. Grow a thicker skin or choose to have a fragile ego hurt.
I'm pretty sure there are already texts that you don't like embedded in the Bitcoin blockchain. It's okay. You don't have to read it. Why would you even bother to read things on a website if it insults you?

How about if the admin filter some keywords(foul words), such that when you use them, you will be handed ban. Such as 7days ban, few days signature ban, read only mode etc. This will promote peaceful co-existence and curtail to the barest minimum any form of bullying, unfriendliness, acrimony or as the case may be.

I'm offended by your suggestion. Now you deserve a 7 day ban

You should spend 2.5 minutes to listen to this guy: the only proper response to someone who says: "I'm offended!" is: "I don't care!".

Here's another 9 minutes worth of your time: Rowan Atkinson on free speech.

For me, the best way to increase society's resistance to insulting or offensive speech is to allow a lot more of it. As with childhood diseases, you can better resist those germs to which you have been exposed. We need to build our immunity to taking offence, so that we can deal with the issues that perfectly justified criticism can raise. Our priority should be to deal with the message, not the messenger.

Did you notice how I completely ignored anything Satofan44 said? That's intentional: it's completely irrelevant to the discussion on freedom of speech.

Remember:

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire*

[stompix]

My suggestion is that discussions about wars between two or more countries, world politics, religion and racism should be abolished or banned such that when a topic that will lead to heated arguments is made, the moderators can trash that topic.

My suggestion is that we ...abolish you!  

Let's analyze the problem:
- one user complains he doesn't like things
- a ton of users participate in the discussions of the things said that the user doesn't like
- fulfilling the user's request would bring heavy censorship to the forum, affecting a lot of users
- removing just the user from the forum would keep him from being disgusted by the discussions and would not matter at all to the others

when a topic that will lead to heated arguments is made, the moderators can trash that topic

The explanation above aside, you do realize we would need to kill also like half of the bitcoin discussion and keep alive only megaspam topics where people regurgitate stuff you can't argue about because it's just shit posting nobody cares to correct?

[shahzadafzal]

...

You know some people will argue not because they want to win the argument but...



That's how internet works :p

[libert19]

^ that's how trolling works.

[Mahiyammahi]

Lol this forum is fuking uncensored version. You can find tons of forum, social media but they are just bloated with tons of restrictions. There's no freedom of speech. But you can do it on this forum.  Everyone has their own beliefs , I believe untill you're giving someone death threat you're free to deliver your speech. I like this level of freedom on this forum.

Simply if you don't like you can just ignore there is a button specifically for it. If you don't like this forum at all there's tons of other forum . Eventually your free to do whatever you want. Why not pick the easiest path you seems to fit for yourselves.

[lovesmayfamilis]

Arguments about the war, especially from those who live through this war, seeing everything that happens not through a monitor but in reality, will naturally cause resentment among those who are on the other side of the defence. It is difficult for both countries now, and we must understand that it is quite difficult to go through this; it is always ordinary people who suffer, those who did not plan to take up arms and kill at all. But then people start arguing, inciting hatred towards each other, instead of trying not to cross the line and try to hear each other. I watch the news from both countries, and I'm sorry for those who are at war, but those who sit at the monitor and fight someone with verbal diarrhoea are no different from those who incite wars. Both countries are ready to welcome those who wish to support them. Why are people fighting on the forum? There is a good opportunity to see the horrors of war firsthand and prove your patriotism in reality; go and fight there..

I don't go into such sections, realising that sometimes you can be disappointed in a person when you see that he is writing nonsense, pouring out his hatred. The forum is not really about war, but we ourselves must decide whether we need these disputes or not, whether we need hostility with someone on the forum or whether we can simply ignore such sections.